Talk:Catalan Republic

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2017 Independence Declaration

I just want to say that if it is possible to add information about the Independence Declaration of Republic of Catalonia on 10 October 2017.

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.24.96.246 (talk) 21:14, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

addition of poorly sourced material

Protected page. Please discuss changes here.Dlohcierekim (talk) 21:20, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 October 2017

Even if it was for just 8 seconds, today, there was again a Catalan Republic. J bullanga (talk) 21:21, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Please, provide reliable sources that confirm independence was effective for 8 seconds. All of these seem to disagree: CNN, The Guardian, The Independent, BBC, Financial Times, Al Jazeera, Daily Express, Los Angeles Times, MSN, SBS, ABC (Australia), Bloomberg, France24 Impru20 (talk) 21:23, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Nihlus 21:34, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

So if something happens but those major sites, who have financial interests and political agendas, do not report on it, it is like it did not happened at all? Bluewave256 (talk) 23:55, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Technically, independence was declared. He just "temporarily suspended its effects" to facilitate diplomacy. That's not the same as not declaring independence or invalidating it completely. Source: The Guardian BBC and others 201.239.163.7 (talk) 00:00, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

I watched it live in Catalan. Puigdemont declared the republic (and the declaration was later signed), and he then declared that the legal effects of the declaration would be held in suspension for a few weeks. IThe Republc of Catalonia did not disappear after 8 seconds. It is continuing as a republic in suspension. Cospelero (talk) 02:22, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

"Republic in suspension", nice new term you seemingly coined, but not what reliable sources say. Impru20 (talk) 07:16, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41574172 I hope this can be considered as a reliable source as major English source since there maybe some rule to not consider the spanish ones according to what I am reading here Catalonia independence declaration SIGNED and suspended "The declaration reads: "We call on all states and international organisations to recognise the Catalan republic as an independent and sovereign state." "As Catalonia's leader announced he would declare independence, thousands of his supporters, watching his speech nearby, on a big screen, were euphoric. But seconds later - when Carles Puigdemont qualified his announcement - and said the declaration would be suspended for several weeks, the disappointment was visible in the crowd." MikeKalash (talk) 08:41, 11 October 2017 (UTC) Here you go - the mentions of the seconds.

NY Times - In Catalonia, a Declaration of Independence From Spain (Sort of) "“I assume the mandate of the people for Catalonia to become an independent state in the shape of a republic,” Mr. Puigdemont said, before adding, SECONDS later, that he and his government would “ask Parliament to suspend the effects of the declaration of independence so that in the coming weeks we can undertake a dialogue.” MikeKalash (talk) 08:46, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Your own BBC source says: However, they say the move [in reference to the independence declaration] will not be implemented for several weeks to allow talks with the government in Madrid.

Your own NYT source says: But by refusing to begin the secession process immediately, he frustrated some of his allies in the independence movement, who felt he had not taken a decisive enough stance Impru20 (talk) 08:52, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

In the Catalan-language Wikipedia article, it shows that a Catalan Republic has been declared at least six times, including 10 October 2017. Cospelero (talk) 11:06, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

“Catalonian leaders have signed a Declaration of Independence from Spain.” http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-11/catalonia-referendum-what-happens-now/9037256?pfmredir=sm

Cospelero (talk) 11:18, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

http://www.catalannews.com/politics/item/how-long-should-the-mediation-period-suggested-by-puigdemont-take

“Puigdemont suspended an independence declaration...” A thing cannot be suspended if it never took place or had been implemented to begin with. Cospelero (talk) 13:15, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

"Catalan government spokesman Jordi Turull said the declaration yesterday evening was "a symbolic act in which we all signed our commitment to declare independence," but added that the official declaration "must be made by the Catalan parliament"." (https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1011/911442-catalonia/). IMHO this quote directly from the Catalan government makes it as clear as it's going to get in this situation that independence has not been declared and no republic has been established. Argymeg (talk) 16:42, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Impru20 I did not coin “republic in suspension.” Just because it’s a new term for you doesn’t mean I coined it. I did translate it from Catalan, but so did others apparently, independently from me. Here it is used in the Guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/11/catalonia-republic-in-suspension-carles-puigdemont Cospelero (talk) 22:24, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Another source: translated - Speaker of ERC affirms that Catalan Republic has definitely been declared - "La independencia de Cataluña está clarísimamente declarada" - " but "independence is declared." [3] MikeKalash (talk) 10:34, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Independence has not been declared even by the standards set by the Catalan government. It does not matter what the speaker of the ERC says - that is his opinion and not a authoritative point of view. It also does not matter that there were 8 second between Puigdemont saying he wanted to declare independence and him saying that independence was suspended, as, again, independence has not been effectively declared according to the standards even of the Catalan government (let alone the Spanish one!) FOARP (talk) 11:26, 13 October 2017 (UTC)