Talk:Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

Changing psychedelic rock to psychedelia

The words "psychedelic rock" never appear in the article. I count:

1. Wagner felt the album's music reconciles the "diametrically opposed aesthetic ideals" of classical and psychedelia, achieving a "psycheclassical synthesis" of the two forms
2. Womack credits the track's "driving rock sound" with distinguishing it from the album's overtly psychedelic material
3. Julien considers the latter a "masterpiece of British psychedelia".

Shouldn't the infobox instead link to Psychedelia?--Ilovetopaint (talk) 02:40, 24 July 2016‎ (UTC)

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Possibly inflated UK sales figures

Would it be possible to add a disclaimer for UK sales given information in this article:

"As a result, as official as the OCC claim their Sgt Pepper’s sales to be, it is barely an estimation based on old press by their in-house chart expert Alan Jones. The album was first claimed at 2,77 million sales in 1987 before jumping to 4,25 million in 1992. The OCC used those claims to add their own post-1994 figures in order to reach a cumulative tally. Both claims were far from being legitimate yet.

With sales being such a black box in the past, it was easy to claim anything. Easy to factor in as UK sales all units exported to various countries which had yet to develop their local market at the time, easy also to trick on wording by combining sales of distinct packages owning the Sgt Pepper’s track and claiming them to be pure studio album sales.

Although all industry insiders can’t be revealed for obvious reasons, sales of the album are quite well tracked in reality. Its net shipment topped the million mark in pure local sales early in 1973. Moving then more than 50,000 units a year, that number decreased steadily to barely over 10,000 units a year during the 80s with Blue compilation being the primary catalog force. It waited until the 1987 CD release to get relevant anew, shifting 170,000 copies for the year. Adding close to 300,000 more sales from 1988 to mid-1992, its EMI shipments from that date to 2008 are known, amassing an impressive 1,193,000 units. OCC scan system tells us it added over 230,000 copies sold since.

Doing the math, the total is close to 3,3 million with nearly 80% of those units being purely verified tallies, not involving any kind of estimate whatsoever a very little room for error in unknown periods as the album had close to zero chart activity during those years."

Thoughts? --Mαuri^’96 “everything and nothing always haunts me…” 00:35, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Start of the Album Era?

I don't understand this. Especially since Pet Sounds and Freak Out came out in 66. I'm changing it until someone convinces me otherwise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:155:0:7CD0:C83A:E347:F423:9C81 (talk) 06:50, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Well, how about Rubber Soul and Revolver, while you're at it ...? I'll volunteer an answer: because this article makes such a big deal out of Pet Sounds and Freak Out as influences, under "Concept and inspiration", which is completely out of proportion to the extent that the Beatles entered the studio in late '66 intent on developing their own (some would say, considerable) achievements, from Revolver.

Regarding the statement about Sgt. Pepper marking the start of the Album Era: Despite all the earlier candidates, there is truth in that statement – in that Pepper was seen at the time, and through the 1980s, I'd say, in that light. This Slate article touches on the issue of how the release of Pepper marked the first time that the music press was fully prepared for "an Album". (I've read plenty on this, or on the causes behind it, elsewhere, e.g.: Bernard Gendron, Between Montmartre and the Mudd Club; Steve Turner, The Beatles '66; Michael R. Frontani, The Beatles: Image and the Media; Lindberg, Guomundsson, Michelsen & Weisethaunet, Rock Criticism from the Beginning; it's probably in one of the books dedicated to Pepper and sourced in this article, also: Julien, or Moore.)

It has to do with the advent of rock criticism (as opposed to pop reviewers), which, as I understand it, was Richard Goldstein's appointment at The Village Voice in late 1966. In the UK, it was jazz reporters like Chris Welch of Melody Maker who first started recognising and trying to formalise developments in the pop/rock scene (again, towards the end of '66). And even before that time, pop musicians, particularly the Beatles, were gaining respect as artists from musicians and writers in the world of classical music; they just weren't receiving the same recognition from pop commentators – the inference being that pop commentators lacked the sophistication required to spot and analyse the artistry before them. So, by and large, albums such as Rubber Soul, Pet Sounds, Revolver and Freak Out were all met with some degree of confusion by the music press. With Pepper, though, reviewers were primed to actually receive an album as a work to critique.

What I think is noticeable in many recently written books accessible in google or Amazon, and in online music articles, is that modern-day writers, by (correctly) recognising several pre-Pepper LPs as distinct and worthy Albums, end up rewriting history on this point. I think the "start of the Album Era" statement belongs here, for the reasons explained, but I appreciate the article may not adequately support the point. For instance, it's currently attributed to Andy Greene of Rolling Stone (under Legacy), as if it's just his personal opinion. JG66 (talk) 08:53, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

As it says in the article "Rolling Stone's Andy Greene credits it with marking the beginning of the Album Era". As that has a citation from a reliable source there is no need to convince you - you may disagree with that analysis but the fact is it has been credited with that. Richerman (talk) 09:55, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Richerman, er, what's your problem? Your comments seem directed more to the user above. I agree the statement's "correct", but the contributor makes a valid point, and the article doesn't set out the case for Pepper marking the start of the Album Era as well as it could and should do. They point to Pet Sounds and Freak Out as precedents – well, there perhaps is the issue I've long talked about, how the article implies that, until the decision to embrace the alter-ego concept, the Beatles' entire approach to making Pepper was to copy the Beach Boys and Zappa. JG66 (talk) 10:10, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, my mistake in indenting, I was addressing the original point made. 2601:155:0:7CD0:C83A:E347:F423:9C81 removed the sentence from the lead which said that Sgt Pepper "was credited with marking the beginning of the Album Era" saying they didn't understand it and were "changing it until someone convinces me otherwise". This statement is made in the main body of the text with a citation so it has been credited with that by at least one person. We can discuss what weight that should be given in the article but you don't just remove something from the lead that's cited in the article before having that discussion. Richerman (talk) 22:14, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Ah okay, thanks(!). I agree then, that the issue is one of what weight we give to the statement. JG66 (talk) 01:32, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Mentioned Rubber Soul and Revolver, but what about A Christmas Gift for You from Phil Spector, A Love Supreme, and Kind of Blue? I still don't get how Sgt. Pepper could be the start when as stated on the actual article A Christmas Gift for you from Phil Spector came out before it, same thing with A Love Supreme and Kind of Blue which came out 8 years before. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:155:0:7CD0:7910:18D7:12EC:1D14 (talk) 05:03, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Also i'm sorry for removing it without discussion. I will wait a few more days for people to weigh in their opinions before considering editing it again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:155:0:7CD0:7910:18D7:12EC:1D14 (talk) 05:08, 13 January 2018 (UTC)