Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive224

DHeyward

Sanction has been lifted, so closing this with no action. TonyBallioni (talk) 16:14, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning DHeyward User who is submitting this request for enforcement Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 09:33, 7 January 2018 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested DHeyward (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced WP:ARBAPDS, "banned for one month from all edits about, and all pages related to post-1932 politics of the United States and closely related people, broadly construed" and [1] Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it [2] That would be an edit "about" Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, and Joe Scarborough. I have this vague notion that these individuals have something to do with "post-1932 American Politics". Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any See above If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts) See above Additional comments by editor filing complaint Sorry about this, but this appears to be a blatant violation of the recent topic ban, which looks almost WP:POINTy to me. I don't know, maybe DHeyward has some explanation for it. (DHeyward does not mention or bring up his topic ban in that edit so this cannot be reasonably construed as an exception which seeks to clarify the nature of the sanction) @NeilN: - wasn't his appeal already declined? Volunteer Marek (talk) 18:39, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested [3] Discussion concerning DHeyward Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by DHeyward Statement by Mendaliv Bleh. Just looks like a ham-handed attempt to appeal the appeal that got closed at AN the other day. I don't think AE should do anything about it since, honestly, it's pretty clearly just an attempt to appeal to a higher power. That said, DHeyward should understand that if not for the fact that it appears to be an appeal a sanction to Jimmy Wales, who presumably has authority to overturn the sanction, that post would not be a good idea. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 09:43, 7 January 2018 (UTC) @Volunteer Marek: He actually does obliquely bring up the appeal. The first diff is DHeyward's edit to the Scarborough article that factored into the ARCA, and the second diff is TonyBallioni's statement in that ARCA that the Scarborough article counts. I'll grant you that it's not an obvious "Hey overturn this ban!" (which, knowing how Jimmy Wales' talk page works, wouldn't accomplish anything), but it's pretty obviously what DHeyward is going to try and sell eventually if he gets a response. Even if DHeyward isn't going for a full-on appeal, he's at least trying to get Jimmy Wales to say it looks like his revert at the Scarborough article falls within BANEX, which he'd then march down here to start the whole appeal process over again claiming (incorrectly) that the entire ARCA rose and fell on the edit at Scarborough. Anyway, my point is, petitioning the higher powers for relief or clarification isn't something AE should be in the business of prohibiting. If DHeyward goes beyond that, then by all means lower the boom, but not at this point. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 10:02, 7 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by The Rambling Man Common sense anyone? Another editor gone, what a proud moment! Happy 2018! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:35, 7 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by Kingindian Jimbo's talk page is recognized on Wikipedia as a special page, and functions as a de facto forum for many things. Please don't be pedantic and block for this. It is really petty of Volunteer Marek to even bring it here. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 05:01, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by My very best wishes Jimbo has no authority to resolve this. Therefore, talking at his talk page about Clinton can not be viewed as a "legitimate and necessary dispute resolution" by any reasonable account. The comment by DHeyward was a forum shopping on a talk page of a WP administrator. I agree with Dennis Brown. My very best wishes (talk) 15:54, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Of course this could be easily left without action. However, one needs to consider the behavior pattern by the user, i.e. appealing their one-month editing restriction on AE, AN and Arbcom and simultaneously violating their topic ban on the talk page of Jimbo and retiring. I think you should do something unless you want to allow making a mockery of WP:AE, and the only reasonable course of action is the one suggested by Dennis Brown. My very best wishes (talk) 23:06, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by Sir Joseph I think rightly or wrongly, most people here are under the impression that TBAN's don't apply to Jimbo's page. I also echo Kingsindian's comment. Sir Joseph (talk) 16:36, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by NorthBySouthBaranof Having myself been topic-banned in the past, I made a couple impassioned (but fruitless) posts on Jimbo's talk page arguing my case, and was not sanctioned for it. I feel like engaging in lengthy discourse might be construed as disruptive of the ban, but as noted above, Jimbo's talk has traditionally allowed this. I did not enjoy editing under the topic ban precisely because I didn't want to have to look over my shoulder every edit wondering if someone was going to jump on me and drag me to this dramaboard - so as much as I have disagreed and continue to disagree with DHeyward, I empathize with him. I suggest that for everyone's sake, we step back a bit. Egregious violations would be one thing, but this is not that. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 22:18, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by Ryk72 I had tentatively drafted something glib here, and then thought better of it. This seems, for want of a better word, incredibly petty. Some editors, when they feel slighted, maligned or wronged, lash out with personalised accusations of incompetence, bias, and auditory failure; others might drop a perhaps pointed note on the Talk pages of the great Jimbo. The first behaviour, discussed above, below & elsewhere, seems to be, if not acceptable, then at least accepted. Traditionally, the other has been covered as Render unto Caesar. One would hope that this instance could be considered accordingly; that this be swiftly and summarily closed; and we could all move on with "improving Wikipedia". NOthing is bettered by this filing remaining open, least not ourselves. I'll also note that a recent pattern of referring WP:AE filings for ban breaches to the previous sanctioning admin is not always conducive to removing heat from situations where the sanctioned editor might already feel victimised. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 12:08, 12 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning DHeyward This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. I came here after Andrew Davidson's statement at ARCA that pointed out what Davidson considered a TBAN violation based on these edits to Brian Krzanich, the CEO of Intel, where a significant portion of the article discusses Krzanich's interactions with Trump. I was expecting (slash dreading) seeing an AE request on that. I consider these both to be edge cases (I can see Mendaliv's arguments that it was more of an appeal to Jimmy Wales of the original sanction). At the same time, I consider both of these edits to follow the pattern of testing the limits of a topic ban: the coversation on Jimbo-talk was part of a broader conversation on a perceived anti-conservative bias on en.wiki, and was using his sanctions as an example. I'm not sure either quite crosses the TBAN line (the Jimbo-talk certainly would if it weren't for the factor of the original sanction.) Given that this is at ARCA, I think we should be very careful about how this is handled, and would welcome more views from my colleagues. TonyBallioni (talk) 15:23, 7 January 2018 (UTC) Also, just as a note, that while I do not consider myself involved i.r.t DHeyward as I have only had administrative actions towards him, I think it is unwise for an admin who's sanction has been appealed to arbcom to be the one blocking or taking other actions while the appeal is pending. I made my statement above as the original sanctioning admin as that view is often requested. TonyBallioni (talk) 17:19, 7 January 2018 (UTC) In my view, this is an actionable topic ban violation. The ban is being appealed at ARCA, but as the various templates and procedures make clear, a ban remains in force until an appeal is successful. The edit at issue relates to contemporary US politics and politicians and is therefore within the scope of the topic ban. An enforcement block is therefore appropriate. In view of the block log of DHeyward, I recommend a block from between 72 h to 1 week. Sandstein 16:56, 7 January 2018 (UTC) I found the comment to be rambling and unhelpful, but I wouldn't have thought about it in the context of a topic ban (if I had known about it at the time). It's a technical violation, but I would not overweigh it. On the other hand, Tony makes a good point about limit testing. If there is a sanction, I think a short block is sufficient, to underline the seriousness of the TBAN. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:28, 7 January 2018 (UTC) Arbitrator comment. I am one of the arbitrators who is reviewing the ARCA appeal. The AE administrators can do as they think best, and I don't speak for any arbs other than myself, but it will be much easier for me to review a sanction appeal if the situation is not a moving target. Addendum: I see that DHeyward has posted a retirement notice today, while I was in the process of reviewing his appeal and this thread. I am sure that is not an outcome that anyone here desired. Newyorkbrad (talk) 21:31, 7 January 2018 (UTC) In consideration of Newyorkbrad's request, I think we should hold off from acting on this enforcement request until the ongoing appeal is resolved. As to the retirement notice, my experience is that almost all such notices posted under circumstances such as these are temporary, so there's no need to take the notice into account. Sandstein 08:55, 8 January 2018 (UTC) From a technical persepective, this is unquestionably a violation of the Tban. From an enforcement perspective, this is an edge case for obvious reasons, including the place where the violation took place and the lack of disruption it caused to readers and editors (exactly zero). We can ignore any other appeal (that is outside of our jurisdiction) and ignore any "retired" banner (which history has shown us is usually temporary). This is one of those cases where my gut says the sanction rage would be from "very strong warning" to "24 hour block", or better yet, extend the tban another 30 days. It is a Catch 22, I'm aware, which is why extending is likely the best solution. I don't think we can completely ignore it, but looking at the totality of circumstances, we need to be careful to not go overboard on sanctioning or it quickly becomes punitive. He knows what he did, a block isn't likely going to be effective in preventing disruption past the expiration of the block. If our goal is to create a situation that has the highest likelihood of encouraging them to NOT violate the terms again, extension of the tban makes sense. We could block in addition, but it seems pointless given the total circumstance. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 00:17, 8 January 2018 (UTC) I have no issue with waiting until the appeal has run its course. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 01:36, 9 January 2018 (UTC) I would view discussing a sanction at Jimmy's talk as somewhere on the outer edge of the "Engaging in legitimate and necessary dispute resolution, that is, addressing a legitimate concern about the ban itself in an appropriate forum" language of BANEX and am very reluctant to sanction for it. GoldenRing (talk) 08:28, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Had the discussion focused on the sanction rather than the merits, I might agree. I'm even willing to cut a little slack for most anything on Jimbos page, but my reading of the diff is that he focused on the content being wrong or right and not so much on whether the sanction was wrong or right. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 14:37, 10 January 2018 (UTC) Hold until appeal is resolved. --NeilN talk to me 16:08, 8 January 2018 (UTC) @Volunteer Marek: It's at ARCA (where you've posted) and the arbs haven't dismissed it out of hand. I'd like to hear what they have to say. --NeilN talk to me 19:02, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Anmolbhat

Closed with no action. Anmolbhat self-corrected some unnecessary rudeness, so no sanction is required. I would note that the "civility restriction" is difficult to enforce short of a personal attack, as no two groups of people agree on what does and doesn't breach civility standards. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 17:52, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning Anmolbhat User who is submitting this request for enforcement JosephusOfJerusalem (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 16:01, 10 January 2018 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Anmolbhat (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement log#India-Pakistan_2: A civility restriction. Any suggestion that any editor is not editing in good faith will lead to an immediate block. Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 09:53, 10 January 2018 Here Anmolbhat says ″I also doubt the credibility of your account as well as Dilpa kaur. Registered during 18-25 October 2017 and engaging in same POV pushing on same days.″ This is a violation of the good faith requirement as its basically casting WP:ASPERSIONS against me. 10:34, 10 January 2018 He has removed part of his bad comment but not fully. This part (″ I also doubt the credibility of your account as well as Dilpa kaur″) remains. Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any 16 December 2017 Blocked for copyright violations after several warnings. Additional comments by editor filing complaint Besides casting aspersions in spite of the good faith sanction on all Kashmir conflict related topics, not only has Anmolbhat broken them in full awareness of his violations, but he even has a history of being blocked for introducing copyright violations[4] despite being warned several times for their copyright violations.[5][6][7][8] I don't think this user is willing to learn or abide by our policies and since their editing is generally tendentious and unconstructive[9][10][11] they should be blocked. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 16:01, 10 January 2018 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested [12] Discussion concerning Anmolbhat Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by Anmolbhat I am not sure if there are such restrictions. Behavior of JosephusOfJerusalem is too concerning. He is edit warring on Kashmiris, showing his incompetence in judging sources at Talk:Kashmiris#Kautilya3's new edits, and Talk:Exodus of Kashmiri Hindus where he is also denying the responsibility of Hizbul. Also that he has to cite outdated diffs as justification for this report. As far as my block is concerned after my block on Copyright Violation I haven't violated any policy but JosephusOfJerusalem can show if I have. On talk page, he was asked about it, but he couldn't backup his claim, but it seems that he prefers to stand by his misleading statement.Anmolbhat (talk) 07:57, 11 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by D4iNa4 Filer should consider reading WP:DR. It details "what to do when you have a dispute with another editor". Just don't expect others to block your critic over the things that happened more than half a year ago. D4iNa4 (talk) 15:42, 11 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning Anmolbhat This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. RegentsPark is the administrator that imposed this restriction, perhaps it is best if he reviews the case. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 19:52, 10 January 2018 (UTC) RegentsPark hasn't edited in a few days, and I'm researching some other aspects of the case, which shouldn't stop anyone else, but wanted to update here. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 11:40, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Raymond3023

Appeal declined per this discussion here, with the original sanction changing to NeilN's modified sanction. —SpacemanSpiff 11:52, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED). Appealing user Raymond3023 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Raymond3023 (talk) 16:06, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Sanction being appealed WP:ARBIPA [13] Administrator imposing the sanction NeilN (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) Notification of that administrator The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a diff of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification. Diff of notification. Statement by Raymond3023 I am sanctioned for "misrepresenting what sources say and a repeated failure to understand this issue", there hasn't been any "repeated failure to understand this issue", I have never been alleged of misrepresenting sources ever. NeilN said I am responsible for the misrepresentation of the source on an article,[14] that I was originally attempting to rescue from a G5 deletion, "mostly because it is notable and meets WP:LASTING".[15] Though he is correct about it and I will always remember that and that's something I had already acknowledged that I should be more cautious with checking the content on the article that I am rescuing from G5,[16] NeilN still went ahead to sanction me despite without giving any other admin a chance to discuss, despite he had echoed that unless "another admin objects, I'm thinking of implementing a three month topic ban".[17] Again, I will be more cautious with checking article and sources when I am taking responsibility of G5, but I find this sanction to be unjustified. Raymond3023 (talk) 16:27, 8 January 2018 (UTC) NeilN, I have been always editing a number of different subjects. As for the diff that you have shown as "in the past", you need to know that my edits were accepted. Since the article(2006 Bhiwandi lynching) is going to be kept I am not understanding what you actually deemed to be disruptive. You could've simply asked me to modify the article in place of a topic ban. It seems largely WP:PUNITIVE for something that has been already fixed before you placed topic ban. Raymond3023 (talk) 17:11, 8 January 2018 (UTC) NeilN, it seems that you are misrepresenting my statements. I was only asking you to clarify your objections, and the article had already went through enough changes when I replied to your message, it was already going under the process of editing now, and I was collaborating with that in place of reverting others. You seem to be implying that I was deliberately misrepresenting sources when that was not my intention at all, I was working to make the article better after agreeing with the suggested edits.[18][19] And again, the only problem here was that I had to be more cautious with taking the responsibility, but I have acknowledge that, didn't I? Raymond3023 (talk) 17:34, 8 January 2018 (UTC) @NeilN: it didn't took me any longer to acknowledge where I was wrong, same with Forbes, given my major aim was to get rid of it since there were many problems with the statement, as I had described on talk page and most editors agreed with it, with one editors had also said that Forbes is not enough for such a claim. But finally, my version was accepted. Same as here, it doesn't take me time to acknowledge where I am wrong. Raymond3023 (talk) 17:47, 8 January 2018 (UTC) NeilN, I had acknowledged on talk page that Forbes link was a reliable source, however there was no consensus on talk page to include it. Raymond3023 (talk) 18:01, 8 January 2018 (UTC) @NeilN: You had mentioned that "I would be willing to go with a formal warning about sourcing, indicating that further similar instances will result in a topic ban/block", I am ready to accept it and guarantee that you won't have to revisit this issue again. Raymond3023 (talk) 09:27, 9 January 2018 (UTC) @NeilN: Yes some sources were either unreliable or contradicted the mainstream opinion as discussed on talk page of these articles, and my aim (on Vastu Shashtra) was that more sources could be discovered for the information that was being removed, as suggested by other editors as well. I also found the sources as well, the then disputed section was is now backed up with the sources that I had discovered. In fact I had fixed the misrepresentation of source on one of these article.[20] I would say that these were simply content disputes. Raymond3023 (talk) 14:02, 9 January 2018 (UTC) Vanamonde93, you are misrepresenting the source[21] here by calling it a "forbes list". Yes that source is an opinion piece since it was written by a contributor not staff, there have been many WP:RSN discussion about such sources and there was discussion about this particular source on Talk:Dangal (film)#Estimates, where we agreed not to add the opinion piece in question. The "article critical of Dalit politics" that you mentioned, you should know that information like "'epidermic determinism' of V.T. Rajshekar" was redundant for the article and it was not fitting on a section like "Religion" at all, although I did merged the content that could be merged into other sections. And the last edit that you mentioned was adhering to WP:BRD and had been supported by most other editors and was in compliance with the TFD outcome. Raymond3023 (talk) 15:11, 9 January 2018 (UTC) I had been only restoring what was removed without explanation[22][23] on Achieved status. Raymond3023 (talk) 15:17, 9 January 2018 (UTC) @NeilN: let me confirm a few things here. Some diffs are exaggerated here, for example [24] was not a revert, but we were attempting to reach consensus by editing. What do you mean by "confirmed" users? 10 edits and 4 days or 500 edits and 30 days? There are less than 600 "confirmed" users on Wikipedia. What if the user is violating BLP/copyrights? No question about other points though. Raymond3023 (talk) 00:45, 10 January 2018 (UTC) @NeilN: Sure, let's move on with these terms. Raymond3023 (talk) 00:57, 10 January 2018 (UTC) Sitush, I missed your message here earlier. I can still clarify that my "position regarding notability" is correctly represented by D4iNa4, I only said on talk page that if there was a policy to merge all stubs to a bigger article, we would go for it but right now policy allows you to make stub that pass notability policies, thus we can retain small articles. Raymond3023 (talk) 03:40, 10 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by NeilN This comes out of a discussion here. Raymond took responsibility for article content here and here. Editors looking at the discussion on Bishonen's page will see the very first post identifies the issues with sourcing. My query to explain how the references backed up article content was ignored. A follow up reveals that Raymond did not see anything that was unsupported. A third post (repeating Vanamonde's points) finally got them to admit the text misrepresented the sources. Given there are issues with the sockpuppet's other articles Raymond restored and there are edit summaries in the past like this, I felt it would be good if Raymond could show how careful he is with sources in other areas. --NeilN talk to me 16:57, 8 January 2018 (UTC) @Raymond3023: The article is the symptom, not the core issue. The core issue is your misrepresentation of what sources said and complete failure to understand the issue. Vanamonde93 clearly pointed out the misrepresentations in their first post. You made several subsequent posts, finally asking, "What do you actually find unsupported there?". This indicates you either didn't read the sources after Vanamonde93's post or actually did read the sources and somehow came to the conclusion that "Muslim mob" and "two radical Muslims" was supported until it you were confronted again about it by me. Editors cannot behave this way about sources, especially in this area. --NeilN talk to me 17:26, 8 January 2018 (UTC) @Sandstein: Not quite. It's not my view Raymond3023 took responsibility. He stated he took responsibility twice as shown in the diffs. And please see my subsequent post above. --NeilN talk to me 17:30, 8 January 2018 (UTC) If admins think the topic ban is too harsh then I would be willing to go with a formal warning about sourcing, indicating that further similar instances will result in a topic ban/block. I am concerned about this editor's ability to read sources given the unrelated Forbes diff. --NeilN talk to me 17:39, 8 January 2018 (UTC) D4iNa4, the reason why articles should be G5'd in this area is because they're often filled with POV that the sockmaster is trying to push. Your characterization of this on 2006 Bhiwandi lynching as "rather a minor issue" is concerning. --NeilN talk to me 17:50, 8 January 2018 (UTC) GoldenRing, what do you think about Raymond3023's statement about about the Forbes source? "[G]iven my major aim was to get rid of it" is in no way a good justification for a misleading edit summary. --NeilN talk to me 17:55, 8 January 2018 (UTC) 42.111.133.233, please disclose your prior account per WP:SCRUTINY. --NeilN talk to me 22:08, 8 January 2018 (UTC) GoldenRing I believe the sanction was appropriate but am always open to what is "more appropriate". Raymond3023, do you have any comments on the evidence presented by Ms Sarah Welch? --NeilN talk to me 13:47, 9 January 2018 (UTC) If I have the process right, Raymond3023 can re-appeal any modified sanction I place upon him so in the interests of not doing this all over again, I'll propose it here first: Fox six months Raymond3023 will: Not remove any WP:G5 tags from WP:ARBIPA articles Abide by WP:1RR on WP:ARBIPA topics (IPs and unconfirmed editors excepted) Ensure the sources he's using fully and accurately back up the content he's proposing. He will be required to produce the necessary excerpts from sources if challenged by an experienced editor Take care not to misrepresent the validity or reliability of a source Failure to abide by any one or more of these conditions may result in an immediate topic ban or block. Raymond3023 do you agree to these conditions? --NeilN talk to me 21:35, 9 January 2018 (UTC) Re-pinging @Raymond3023: --NeilN talk to me 21:39, 9 January 2018 (UTC) @Raymond3023: You will have to observe WP:1RR with all autoconfirmed editors - 10 edits, 4 days. WP:1RR has the same exemptions as WP:3RR - reverts for vandalism, BLP violations, etc., don't count. See WP:3RRNO for the full list. --NeilN talk to me 00:53, 10 January 2018 (UTC) I've recorded the modification here. Issues were raised about other editors but I believe they have little merit and the appeal should be closed. --NeilN talk to me 01:20, 10 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by Vanamonde93 Since I brought this to NeilN's attention, let me supply that evidence once again. Here is the sequence of incidents which prompted this ban: 1) I tagged a number of articles created by the blocked sock John Jaffar Janardhan for CSD#G5, including 2006 Bhiwandi Lynching. 2) Raymond3023 reverted my tags, including on the aforementioned page. 3) I restored the tags, including at the aforementioned page. 4) Raymond3023 posted to the talk page of that article, "taking responsibility" for it. 5) I noticed that the article contained severe source misrepresentation, and posted to Bishonen's talk page, asking her to deal with it. 6) Despite being asked explicitly by NeilN about the source misrepresentation, Raymond3023 denied any wrongdoing, and judging by the appeal is still unable to see that what he did was a problem. So, I recommend this appeal be declined. Vanamonde (talk) 17:24, 8 January 2018 (UTC) @Sandstein: Please take a look at the links I have provided here. Regards, Vanamonde (talk) 17:25, 8 January 2018 (UTC) @Sandstein and GoldenRing: If the issue were limited to simply flouting WP:V, I'd agree with you. As Sitush says, though, the text in question flouted verifiability with the obvious intent of pushing an anti-Muslim point of view. Religious and nationalist conflict is at the heart of our trouble with ARBIPA topics, and violations such as these are not to be taken at all lightly. Vanamonde (talk) 18:14, 8 January 2018 (UTC) (re-sign for ping Vanamonde (talk) 03:18, 9 January 2018 (UTC)). I could take a good guess as to the identity of the IP, but they are likely to complain about outing if I do so. So, until they disclose their account, let me just say that when an IP who admits to having a previous account jumps to the defense of an editor who was protecting the work of a blocked sock at an obscure noticeboard, I find it very suspicious. Vanamonde (talk) 03:18, 9 January 2018 (UTC) @NeilN: If we're now looking at further instances of a problematic approach to sources, there's plenty of evidence at hand. There's another instance of referring to a Forbes list as an opinion piece. An instance of removing an opinion piece critical of Hindu-nationalism, and a scholarly article critical of Dalit politics, but keeping an opinion piece critical of Zionism. Oh, and there's this gem, too, which is particularly ironic given the articles which Raymond attempted to keep, thereby beginning this dispute. Vanamonde (talk) 14:54, 9 January 2018 (UTC) More, admittedly only partially related to Indian politics: the addition of completely unsourced original research related to achieved versus ascribed status. Vanamonde (talk) 15:04, 9 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by D4iNa4 Raymond3023 had to be guided about WP:G5 that when you are taking responsibility you are responsible for every word of the article. But that's it. Looking at the content in question, it is not even vandalism, copyright or BLP violation. It is rather a minor issue and Raymond was collaborating on talk page. FWIW, Raymond is correct about the notability of the article, and should be appreciated for contesting the unwarranted speedy deletion. Compared to most of the editors in this area, Raymond is not disruptive, he is rather a knowledgeable editor who already realized his mistake prior the topic ban. Since the sanction was unwarranted and apparently punitive, I am supporting removal of the topic ban. D4iNa4 (talk) 17:33, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by Sitush I've done a very small bit of very significant fixing at the 2006 Bhiwandi lynching article and opened a significant discussion on its talk page. D4iNa4 characterising the problems there as being "minor" is very disturbing. The article was quite obviously an anti-Muslim hatchet job and I'm afraid that as such it falls near the very heart of our existing discretionary sanctions regimes. Stoking communal pressures like this is not a "minor issue" and I am alarmed at that suggestion from someone whom I've seen editing Indic articles quite a lot. - Sitush (talk) 18:03, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Addendum: D4iNa4 also incorrectly represents Raymond3023's position regarding notability of the article, as that talk page makes clear. - Sitush (talk) 18:31, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Raymond3023 Comment by Winged Blades of Godric Comment--A G5 deletion tagging can't be classified as warranted/unwarranted.Also, when you're taking responsibility for G5ed articles you ought to be very sure about the content, for the community does take a very dim view of sockpuppets and any knownful association to them.Winged BladesGodric 17:40, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Comment by Ms Sarah Welch There are serious sourcing issues with Raymond3023 edits, far beyond the article in question. See, these three articles for example: Vastu Shastra: Raymond claims sources are reliable and support the text. No, they are not per Joshua Jonathan, and more detailed analysis confirms source misrepresentation and OR. See the whole talk page for more tendentious arguments by Raymond3023, such as here. Bhimbetka rock shelters: Raymond3023, my response. Kalki: Raymond alleging "enough sources" and misrepresenting something as fringe, my response asking for sources to back up their allegations. No response from Raymond3023. Mere repetition and TE: Raymond's claim, my response, Raymond alleges scholarly sources are unreliable, my request for evidence. No response again. I support NeilN's ARBIPA action. Maybe it was too short, measured, modestly trying to encourage behavior modification, as NeilN's actions generally tend to be. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 17:55, 8 January 2018 (UTC) @NeilN: Raymond senses the issue here but is not fully understanding our concerns. Finding more sources is not our concern, we welcome such good faith efforts. The concern is that his summaries do not reflect the source, and repeatedly reflect an intent that is neither neutral nor constructive. The edit warring with admins and seasoned editors such as Joshua Jonathan to restore misrepresented dubious content makes it worse, repeatedly running to RPP for full page protection of articles with dubious / POV-y / inflammatory content more so. Their willingness to quote wikipedia rules far exceeds their willingness to quote the source. All this needs to stop. Plain and simple, without defensive arguments. Raymond comes across like a smart person and one who can possibly reform as Kautilya3 notes, but he needs to consider some behavioral changes. Here are three suggestions: [1] Voluntarily accept no more than 1RR in ARBIPA space articles if the other editor is admin or a significant contributor (>2,000 edits); [2] If in dispute, he must quote a few complete lines/excerpts from the source plus give link or source info with page number on the article's talk page, with that 1RR; and [3] Less trips to RPP when the other parties are admins/seasoned editors. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 16:32, 9 January 2018 (UTC) Comment by (IP) This is a user from Hyderabad India ,I used to edit Wikipedia but quit in 2016,If anyone wants to know my previous account can disclose it privately.The Edits were made by User:John Jaffar Janardan not by Raymond3023 who neither reverted nor added the content only removed the deletion tag as the subjects are clearly notable .If there is a case of pushing anti-Muslim point of view ,It was done by User:John Jaffar Janardan the articles created when I used to edit were done in 2016 and were never edited by Raymond3023 until they were tagged by Vanamonde .This article Paras Rajput was POV deleted after being tagged by Vanamonde .It was No consenus in a AFD Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paras Rajput hence should not been speedy deleted .Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement should not be used to settle disputes over content issues of Vanamonde and other editors.Again the issue over sources discussed in talk in Vastu_shastra is a Multi editor discussion Ms Sarah Welch should have disclosed her previous account User:ApostleVonColorado and was earlier under sanction which the user is concealing. 42.111.133.233 (talk) 21:49, 8 January 2018 (UTC) :@MastCell: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement should not be used in content disputes which are multi editor and almost all of them have discussed in talk and it was never reverted or inserted by the concerned editor but done by another editor in 2016 a editor only removes the deletion tag and there is no revert warring.42.111.133.233 (talk) 22:03, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Comment by Capitals00 @Sandstein and GoldenRing: You have analyzed what Raymond did, but admins should also look at the misconduct of Vanamonde93. As per the Wikipedia:Deletion policy, "Speedy deletion is meant to remove pages that are so obviously inappropriate for Wikipedia that they have no chance of surviving a deletion discussion", yet Vanamonde93 still tagged the article that is likely going to survive a deletion discussion and policy also notes that "If there is a dispute over whether a page meets the criteria, the issue is typically taken to deletion discussions", but Vanamonde93 edit warred over the tag [25] and made a misleading claim on edit summary that Raymond is "an involved editor", regardless of the fact that Raymond never edited the article before. This battleground mentality doesn't end here. After restoring the tag in place of bringing it to Afd, Vanamonde93 made no attempt to fix the content issue and made no input on talk page either,[26] but went to report an admin without notifying Raymond by using the Echo notification system or by posting a message.[27] Given that neither has clean hands, I think both Raymond and Vanamonde should be warned. Capitals00 (talk) 05:24, 9 January 2018 (UTC) Comment by Kautilya3 I support NeilN's sanction. Raymond3023 has been walking on the edge for a long time (see Ms Sarah Welch's input), and it was only a matter of time before he got caught out. I also think Raymond is capable of reform, and three months will likely do it. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 06:28, 9 January 2018 (UTC) Result of the appeal by Raymond3023 This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. @NeilN: Am I summarizing the reasons for your sanction correctly as follows? 2006 Bhiwandi lynching was (and is now again) nominated for speedy deletion. Raymond3023, in their only substantial edit to the article, removed the speedy deletion template with the reason "per WP:BANREVERT, subject meets WP:LASTING". You took the view that, in doing so, Raymond3023 took responsibility for the article's contents, including the first two references, which do not back up the assertions in the first two sentences of the article, namely, that "a Muslim mob" burned two Indian policemen alive. When challenged by you about this, Raymond3023 said that they were mainly concerned with notability and that "next time I would be more cautious when contesting G5". On the basis of these facts, you topic-banned Raymond3023 for three months "for misrepresenting what sources say and a repeated failure to understand this issue." Is this about it? Sandstein 17:23, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Thanks, Vanamonde93, I missed the part where Raymond3023 wrote that they were "taking the responsibility of the article". Under these circumstances, I think NeilN was correct to characterize this behavior as improper, namely, adding content not verifiable by reliable sources relating to a highly sensitive topic, i.e., murder and religious violence. Whether it deserved a sanction for misconduct, and specifically this sanction, is less clear to me. Verifiability issues are primarily content issues, and arbitration does not address these. Egregious misregard for core content policies such as WP:V does rise to the level of misconduct, but I don't think that's what we have here. While it is true that Raymond3023 does seem to have some competence problems, the one edit at issue here did not directly add the problematic content, but only assumed responsibility for the article as a whole. They also had no previous relevant sanctions. Under these circumstances, I'd probably have left it at a stern warning and not directly imposed a topic ban. The topic ban is more defensible if one takes the very pragmatic view that all less than completely competent and experienced editors should be removed from DS topic areas, but that's not been our practice so far, and would be very difficult to implement. Nonetheless, I'm aware that this is only a different admin's perspective on the issue, and not necessarily a more objective one than NeilN's, who as enforcing admin has wide latitude to impose discretionary sanctions. Such sanctions should only be overturned if the applicable rules and procedures were clearly violated, and not merely because of a different assessment of the situation. This case seems to me to be on the border between the two situations, and I would therefore welcome other views on the matter. Sandstein 17:46, 8 January 2018 (UTC) The article content was problematic and the user took a long time to get the point of that. This seems within process and admin discretion to me and I see no formal grounds to overturn it. However, it's not what I would have done; if it was me in that situation, once the user has admitted there is a problem and committed to fixing it, I'd let it go with a warning and keep an eye on them. @NeilN: Would you consider commuting this to a warning off your own bat? GoldenRing (talk) 17:49, 8 January 2018 (UTC) @NeilN: it's not particularly impressive but it's also not a major game-changer in my view. However, my question was really whether you would consider changing your mind; if you're confident that the sanction was appropriate, I see no grounds here for us to overturn it and it should stay in place. GoldenRing (talk) 09:19, 9 January 2018 (UTC) Having reviewed this case, NeilN applied appropriate due diligence, and the 3-month topic ban is well within administrative discretion for the issues at hand. I don't see any grounds for granting the appeal or for overturning or commuting the topic ban. If anything, I'm concerned that we'll be back here in 3 months, since Raymond2023 doesn't seem to understand why his actions were problematic. MastCell Talk 20:17, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Anmolbhat

There is no appetite for issuing sanctions here. Additionally, the administrator who originally put in the civility restriction has chosen to strike it, although I would note that all other unstruck provisions still hold. The problem is where we draw the line on what is and isn't "civil" particularly when the activities of others are less than stellar. I suggest the involved editors focus more on dialog and less on tripping people up on technical violations. I also suggest that everyone, including Anmolbhat, be more civil. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 20:41, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning Anmolbhat User who is submitting this request for enforcement Dilpa kaur (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 07:54, 13 January 2018 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Anmolbhat (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement log#India-Pakistan_2: A civility restriction. Any suggestion that any editor is not editing in good faith will lead to an immediate block. : Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 05:24, 13 January 2018 Anmolbhat has made an accusation of meatpuppetry (″ Looks like a botched attempt of meat puppetry″) against another user on a page which is under Regents park's good faith sanction whereby any suggestion that another editor is not acting in good faith will lead to an immediate block. Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any 16 December 2017 If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts) Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above. Participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date. Additional comments by editor filing complaint This user has not just been blocked but had received repeated warnings about his incorrect behavior but still he does not show any sign of improvement.1234 and has also been warned many times to stop their unconstructive editing.56 7 The user JosephusOfJerusalem also filed a complaint against Anmolbhat for breaking the civility restriction but the closing of that complaint has only further emboldened this user to break ARBIPA sanctions even more. You would have expected he would learn but he is still doing it. And if unsubstantiated accusations of meat puppetry is not a personal attack (WP:NPA#WHATIS) I do not know what is. @GoldenRing:-The accusation of meatpuppetry was by Anmolbhat, a editor whose account is only a few months old (myself am a long time IP contributor before registering), against a senior decade old editor NadirAli who has made edits to the article[28][29] beforehand. NadirAli is no new user. This is obviously not civil on Anmolbhat's part. I don't see any incivility from the others. Winged Blades of Godric has confirmed [30] that the first sentence of Anmolbhat's contribution was cherrypicking, so JosephusOfJerusalem's rigorous objections were justified and not incivil. Capitals00, who is part of Kautilya3's tag team,[31] does not honestly mention that. Dilpa kaur (talk) 13:14, 14 January 2018 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested [32] Discussion concerning Anmolbhat Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by Anmolbhat Statement by Kautilya3 I don't know about "meatpuppetry" but an obvious of WP:Tag teaming to game the edit restrictions in place for Kashmir conflict-related articles. NadirAli's previous edit to the page was on 9 January, when Anmolbhat's text was already present. NadirAli raised no objections then. He has made no talk page comment on this page ever, until the current one. Looking at what he writes: So far no response has been forthcoming nor is the provided source going to support the 13,000+ kB of POV content, it is clear that he has neither read the disputed content (which has multiple citations for every bullet point) nor looked at the "provided source". He is just doing a ninja revert to help out his mate. As for civility, let us look at Josephus's revert justification. Apparently the edit was a "POV edit" and a consensus-less edit which is totally unacceptable. It is supposedly still violating our copyright policies and constitutes a very poor write up. Hence, he demands Anmolbhat to explain why [his] edits are acceptable or else he would face ARBIPA penalties for tendentious editing. All this for one innocent edit! What kind of pompous claptrap is that? No evidence of "POV" or "copyright violations" have yet been provided on the talk page. This is just an effort to WP:BLUDGEON a newish editor and intimidate him into submission. Having contributed to Kashmir conflict articles more than any one else here, let me say that there was absolutely nothing wrong with Anmolbhat's content. It is entirely factual with multiple citations for every line, no copyright violations (I have checked), and nobody has given the authority to JosephusOfJerusalem to demand explanations from editors as to why their content is "acceptable". As for his "credibility", which Anmolbhat has questioned before, who believes that this three month old account with 150 edits (mostly to talk pages) knows enough to give countless user warnings, knows so many admins, and is able to raise an ARE complaint? Dennis Brown has closed the previous ARE case rather too soon it seems. It would useful to let this one run its course, and find out the results of his research into the other aspects of the case. I would also like to ask RegentsPark how to address the tag teaming that is going on to game his edit restrictions. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 10:00, 13 January 2018 (UTC) I would agree with GoldenRing. This kind of thing should count as a violation of the edit restrictions. But, given the context of this talk discussion, where Josephus himself was uncivil from the get-go, I would say the temperatures had been raised. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 09:14, 14 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by (JosephusOfJerusalem) I had indeed filed the report which Dilpa kaur points to, Dennis Brown seemed to have given Anmolbhat a lenient second chance which it seems he has not been grateful for. How many chances are we going to give him before he brings down the encyclopedia?? He should know better than to cast WP:ASPERSIONS on pages under civility restrictions. As for Kautilya3's WP:TEXTWALL, the content dispute should not be brought up here but since he has already brought it up I will say I have raised and outlined the problems in just the first sentence of Anmolbhat's contribution alone (the subsequent text being more or less the same POV) on the talkpage but there has been no satisfactory response, just WP:IDHT, red herrings and edit war by seeming tag teamers such as MBlaze Lightning who have extremely little to no contribution on the talkpage. I asked MBlaze Lightning (who contributed only a very vague sentence to the talkpage discussion (0)) to cite his evidence from the book (1) which he claimed supports the content and restore the last stable version, as is the rule of WP:NOCON, while the discussion was ongoing, following which NadirAli, who has had previous contributions to this page, had to restore the last stable version,(2) which Anmolbhat once again disruptively reverted.(3). JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 11:38, 13 January 2018 (UTC) Comment by WBG After spending some time on scrutinizing the details, I don't think any sanction is deserved.When there are user-boxes stating IP addresses may overlap, brand-new editors (or rather SPAs) behaving like decade-old contributors with knowledge of every finest details of policies and choosing to work in extremely volatile atmospheres, sparks will fly and one needs to have a thicker skin.And, as a side-note, unless and until good-faith is discounted via objective processes, everyone ought to have a less inclination for the undo button and casting random aspersions, at-least at the article t/p.Winged BladesGodric 14:24, 13 January 2018 (UTC) Whilst, one part. sentence looked like cherrypicking to my eyes, it doesn't mean that I am much/any supportive of JJ's version, either.There were no problems of copyvio et al as claimed and to start with threats of ARBIPA sanctions doesn't bear very well with me.Winged BladesGodric 13:21, 14 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by Capitals00 @GoldenRing: Have a look at Kautilya3's message for understanding the background. What I am seeing is that Anmolbhat was questioning the edit summary and asked the editor to clarify it, because the editor removed 13,000 bytes of content with a dubious edit summary and also provided superficial reasons on talk page. JosephusOfJerusalem has falsely accused Anmolbhat of making "POV edits", and violating "copyrights",[33] which is without a doubt accusation of editing in bad faith. NadriAli's false accusation of "POV content", and "misrepresentation" is just same.[34] And these accusations have no merit. Most people have agreed here that there is some suspicious activity going on with these accounts and currently there is an ANI thread[35] running against this issue. Capitals00 (talk) 09:58, 14 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning Anmolbhat This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. As usual, I would leave the enforcement of the request to the admin who imposed the original sanction, RegentsPark (talk · contribs). Sandstein 08:51, 13 January 2018 (UTC) I agree that RegentsPark should look at this, but I pinged him last week with no effect. On the merits here, it would seem Anmolbhat's comment was in reference to someone warning someone about removing large amounts of text, while they themselves were removing a HUGE block of text. Regardless, I don't see this as something that breaches WP:CIVIL and wouldn't support sanctioning. I can't possibly see how the restriction could have been imposed to remove all blunt comments, stifling normal discussion, which can be a little blunt or mildly rude sometimes. I see claims of personal attacks on the talk page, but it just makes me wonder if it is a setup to complain at AE. If RegentsPark doesn't respond within a short period, I would close without action. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 11:31, 13 January 2018 (UTC) @Dennis Brown: RegentsPark is a victim of TFA due to a phone change, he's currently searching for his scratch codes, I wouldn't wait for him. —SpacemanSpiff 11:48, 13 January 2018 (UTC) Ah, thanks for the info. Since I closed the last one after a good long wait, I will leave this open a day or two in case others have a different take on the situation. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 11:50, 13 January 2018 (UTC) Please note that CambridgeBayWeather just full protected Exodus of Kashmiri Hindus, an option I was about to exercise myself. There are problems on that article (not the least of which is the formatting, but that is content, not behavior). Everyone, including Anmolbhat, needs to cool their jets and calmly use the talk page, particularly since they can't edit the article. Blocks and sanctions for small things are NOT what will improve the article. Cooperation is. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 11:56, 13 January 2018 (UTC) Kautilya3, to clear up one point, I can assure you that I examined other aspects of that case, in tremendous detail, with the help of others, privately. The newness of some accounts and the unusual familiarity with policy did not escape me. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 12:02, 13 January 2018 (UTC) I managed to find those (elusive!) scratch codes and am back online and will comment later today. --regentspark (comment) 13:43, 13 January 2018 (UTC) I don't see the need for any sanctions on AnmolBhatt here, though this is fairly close to the border. While meatpuppetry accusations should be used with care, suggesting that there may be meat puppetry going on when dealing with relatively new accounts that are hovering around an editors content space is not necessarily problematic (see WP:MEAT) as long as it is expressed in civil manner. The civility injunction does not mean that legitimate concerns cannot be raised and I think that is the case here because we do have a number of new editors displaying strong policy knowledge and working on the same content. All that said, I think that the onus is on AnmolBhatt to justify inclusion of the content under contention and it may be a good idea for it to stay off the page while it is being discussed (but that's not a matter for AE so this is just a thought).--regentspark (comment) 22:37, 13 January 2018 (UTC) @RegentsPark: I am happy to close this as no action, but I do have some difficulty squaring what you have written with the sanction you imposed. Accusations of meat-puppetry seem an obvious accusation of editing in bad faith. Since your restriction states that any accusations of editing in bad faith will result in an immediate block, I can certainly sympathise with those who are expecting a block to result from this report (whether such an outcome seems necessary, equitable or good for the encyclopaedia or not. GoldenRing (talk) 08:54, 14 January 2018 (UTC)Fixing broken ping of User:RegentsPark GoldenRing (talk) 09:28, 14 January 2018 (UTC) That's why this is close to the border. The good faith restriction was placed by me to prevent things like "Pakistani views" or "Indian views". Allegations of meat puppetry were not the intention and it is not unreasonable to allege that when new accounts appear to be editing in tandem. That wasn't the spirit of the restriction. Dennis Brown's suggestion below is a good one and I'll modify the restriction. Meanwhile, it may be a good idea to remind AnmolBhatt that proving meat puppetry is difficult and that such allegations should be made very carefully. The way I see it, a meat puppetry accusation is not by itself uncivil, repeated such accusations without using a formal process would be a problem. --regentspark (comment) 14:59, 14 January 2018 (UTC) Rather than have a long drawn out discussion on it, I would like to see RegentsPark change the line "Any suggestion that any editor is not editing in good faith will lead to an immediate block." by either removing it altogether (first choice), or something along of the lines of "Serious breaches of civility may result in sanction without warning". Removed is preferred because we already have policies on civility, and no two people can even agree on those. Besides, the section below it called "An ethnicity claim restriction" already covers the most likely cause of stress on those articles. I agree with GoldenRing that people may be lead to think that minor things will result in action, when a consensus of admin wouldn't take that action, so as worded, it is doing more harm than good. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 14:36, 14 January 2018 (UTC) Thanks Dennis. I've modified the restriction accordingly. --regentspark (comment) 15:07, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Doncram

Doncram is formally warned to focus on himself and the contributions he can make on the site, casting aspersions or antagonizing other editors in any form will not be tolerated. There is no further action required at this time. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 21:17, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning Doncram User who is submitting this request for enforcement Nyttend (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 02:26, 22 January 2018 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Doncram (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced [36] (time to re-impose the interaction ban suspended by this announcement); also see below Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it In response to the announcement about the suspension of the Doncram case's interaction ban, Doncram promptly proceeded to attack the other party in the ban, as well attacking the same party in the discussion about case names versus numbers. When I left a note saying "this is precisely the kind of behavior prohibited in the announcement", he proceeded to attack me. Note the complete lack of evidence: you can't get a better example of WP:WIAPA point #1, Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence. We routinely issue first-time blocks to editors who make this kind of attack, but Doncram's been significantly sanctioned for this precise kind of behavior in a past arbitration case, but he's still bringing up issues from five years ago to attack multiple editors. After this long, it's obvious that he'll not decide to comply with NPA. It's time to lock the door and throw away the key. Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any New announcement, which started the discussion Doncram's block log Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Doncram remedy 2.1 Additional comments by editor filing complaint Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested [37] Discussion concerning Doncram Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by Doncram Statement by Mendaliv Honestly I think part of this is post-litigation frustration, kind of like how blocked editors are sometimes given some leeway for sounding off in ways that would otherwise be sanctionable. Considering this is 100% Doncram, I am hopeful that the outcome here is just with respect to Doncram. Maybe a block, maybe a short one-way IBAN until Doncram calms, but not immediately reversing the Committee's decision to let the IBAN lapse. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 03:16, 22 January 2018 (UTC) Alternatively this could be kicked to ANI to let the community handle it as a general NPA situation. My hope at the ARCA that got the IBAN lifted was to terminate Committee oversight of a very old case. Frankly, I believe Doncram's conduct here is objectively indistinguishable from an attempt to force the reinstatement of the IBAN by triggering the reinstatement provision of the Committee motion. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 03:30, 22 January 2018 (UTC) @Thryduulf: My mentioning the age of the case is intended as a reference to my arguments for suspending the IBAN that I made at ARCA. The short version is that I believe people should be expected to exit the arbitration sanction system at some point, and that the duty to handle problems should revert to the general community processes. The Committee has a pretty strong abstention doctrine with respect to case requests, but when it comes to relatively penny-ante stuff like this, which would swiftly get handled at ANI if not for the previous case, the Committee tends not to release its jurisdiction. One of the reasons I gave to support the lifting of the IBAN is that getting caught up in Committee processes is extremely burdensome, and in most cases much more so than an ANI thread. Half the point of getting the IBAN lifted, frankly, is to not have to worry about getting dragged to AE over something debatable. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 04:47, 22 January 2018 (UTC) @DHeyward: I generally concur with your assessment, with a couple caveats. First, I don't think the admins here are estopped from taking admin actions that would be otherwise appropriate even in the absence of a Committee sanction. Inasmuch as the comments Doncram made constitute personal attacks, and Doncram has a history of such conduct, an admin could take action on it. Perhaps a one-way IBAN isn't obviously authorized, but I think it would be a creative alternative to an indefinite block. This doesn't mean it would be a good idea to do either; I believe this is more in the nature of "blowing off steam" and does little actual harm to the project or to Sarek. Second point: I don't think Doncram's complaints are "legitimate inquiry" into the nature of the ruling. In the case of this comment, which rolls a bunch of complaints about the ruling into a comment about a completely different Committee procedural change, I don't see any inquiry, and I question the venue. Similarly, this comment directed at Nyttend at the Committee noticeboard has nothing to do with the ruling and simply consists of unsupported accusations of misconduct. I don't see either statement as legitimate or appropriate, and believe they could be grounds for sanctions. But, as I said, I don't think sanctions are so necessary at this point in light of the facts. The best option, in my view, is to give Doncram a stern final warning that his comments were disruptive and objectively indistinguishable from someone gaming the system to get the IBAN reimposed, and that continuing to do so would result in sanctions very likely to include an indefinite block. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 07:39, 22 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by DHeyward Three points: Given the timing, a trout is more appropriate per Mendaliv. The rush to AE so soon after ARCA is unfortunate. The comment was made to ArbCom about a motion that affected them and perceived harassment. ARBCOM is well equipped to deal with this and really has no place here. The diff is part of the proceeding, not an attack. A trout for the editors and admins thinking to punish a legitimate inquiry at the appropriate venue. If ARBCOM wishes to amend their ruling, they are able to do so. This proceeding is inferior to the one that took place and should not presume to overturn that motion. Good faith dictatesthat ArbCom will act to patrol their own space. The proposal of a 1-way IBAN is not a discretionary sanctioned allowed per the ruing. The ARCA request was clear that the ARBCOM remedy of a 2-way IBAN could be re-imposed but didn't contemplate a 1-way IBAN as part of the motion. A one-way IBAN was not part of the ARCA or original case. --DHeyward (talk) 06:16, 22 January 2018 (UTC) @Mendaliv: I don't disagree with your characterization of the comments, rather the venue was in ArbCom space about arbcom actions concerning him (obviously the IBAN motion is directly related while the naming of his case is related to case naming - when a remedy is a two-way IBAN, I can see the concern with a case name listing only a party). The Nyttend attacks are more concerning but that's not covered by AE AFAIK. Since all occured in ArbCom space patrolled by both clerks and arbcom members, it's one of the areas of wikipedia where virtually all participants can handle disruption. ArbCom is a heated space and it's just a bad idea to have AE move in those spaces. For the same reasons it would be bad for AE to drag editors that comment in evidence/Workshop/proposed decisions, I think AE should be reluctant to sanction in any ArbCom space. My 0.02 --DHeyward (talk) 07:56, 22 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning Doncram This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. I think what is warranted here is a short block (1-2 weeks is my initial thinking) for the attacks against Sarek and Nyttend, and an indefinite one-sided interaction ban regarding Sarek of Vulcan. I don't think a two-way ban would be fair on Sarek at this time as one has just been suspended and they have not made any comments (that I am aware of) that would come anywhere close to being actionable in other circumstances. I would also strongly caution Doncram that any future breaches of the iban or personal attacks against other editors will result in lengthier blocks. Thryduulf (talk) 03:27, 22 January 2018 (UTC) @Mendaliv: Why is the age of the case relevant? Either restrictions are warranted or they're not. It seems to me that they are regarding Doncram but Sarek has done nothing wrong since the Committee made their decision hence I'm explicitly proposing a one-way ban. Sarek's ban will remain suspended and hopefully expire, but if Doncram's fears do come true then I'm sure he'll be brought here (or to ARCA) quick-sharpish and appropriate action will be taken. I don't have faith in AN/I's ability to quickly or reliably separate wheat from chaff in cases like this. Thryduulf (talk) 03:44, 22 January 2018 (UTC) I'm inclined to let Doncram off with a vigourous trouting here, mostly for the reasons suggested by Mendaliv. With an additional warning that if there's even the slightest hint of another breach I will advocate coming down hard on Doncram. Lankiveil (speak to me) 04:27, 22 January 2018 (UTC). I think any action other than re-instating the IBAN would have to be a normal admin action, as DS are not authorised here. And I agree with the thought of others that this hasn't risen to that level - yet. I'm not sure that Doncram (as others have suggested) is making a deliberate attempt to have the IBAN reinstated, but if it becomes obvious that this is the case, I would argue for an indefinite (but not infinite) block as a normal admin action. GoldenRing (talk) 10:46, 22 January 2018 (UTC) @Thryduulf: some empathy is needed here. Take a look at what Doncram has been saying, and try and empathise. He said I don't want this (in the edit summary) on 17 January, and then edited for a couple of days and then was absent for a couple of days between 19 and 21 January (the ARCA motion closed on 20 January and I can understand that this caught him off guard as that is very quick, only four days). He then said this, which includes statements that he was 'depressed', finds this 'unpleasant', that he is 'apprehensive', and that the situation is 'depressing and demoralizing'. As far as I know, things were OK with this situation, and the ARCA filing has had the unfortunate effect of stirring things up again (this looks like a case of a new arbitration committee wanting to be efficient and not stopping to consider the human impact of their actions). The impression given is that you and Nyttend are following the letter of the law here, and not seeing the human effects of the ARCA request, and the effects of your actions and proposed actions. Please also look at the comments here (WT:AC/N permalink) where the tone seems to be against imposing immediate sanctions. By all means warn Doncram, but please take into account his feelings. Carcharoth (talk) 11:48, 22 January 2018 (UTC) After reviewing the "attacks" I do not find them of high enough severity to warrant arbitration enforcement action at this time. @Doncram: is reminded that he is still within the 6 month window where AE admins have the discretion to re-levy the recently rescinded IBAN if they are found to not act in a manner consistent with our community norms, especially in their dealings with other editors. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 12:09, 22 January 2018 (UTC) I don't think he's forgotten that. GoldenRing (talk) 12:16, 22 January 2018 (UTC) I can not speak to another editor's current memory. I can however state what the reality of their situation is. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 12:28, 22 January 2018 (UTC) I see some drama-mongering and venting but not something that requires the ban stick. A warning is due, but reinstating the iban or changing it to one way is premature. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 12:20, 22 January 2018 (UTC) As a note on the idea of a one-way IBAN, admins cannot impose that at AE under the current motion. On the other hand, if uninvolved admins at AE determined a one-way IBAN was appropriate rather than restoring the two-way IBAN and recommended that to the Committee at ARCA, the Committee could consider that. Alternatively, all usual non-AE possibilities are available, including blocks and initiating a community discussion about a one-way IBAN. ~ Rob13Talk 14:29, 22 January 2018 (UTC) @BU Rob13: why the focus on the legalese and what is appropriate in the strictly limited sense of AE? What is really going on here is that of the two parties to a two-way interaction ban, one of them asked for it to be lifted (SarekOfVulcan) and one of them asked for it not to be lifted (Doncram) or at least made clear he was not happy with it being lifted. SarekOfVulcan saw the interaction ban as an impediment to any future RfA (at least he thought that way in 2014 and the arbitration committee didn't ask if that was still the case). Doncram sees the interaction ban as protecting him from harassment. Regardless of who is right or wrong about that, those differing perceptions are a massive problem. The question here should really be why the Arbitration Committee did not see this problem that was right there under their noses and went ahead with suspending the interaction ban when it was clear that suspending it would lead to problems (at least that seemed to be clear to Callanecc, DeltaQuad and Newyorkbrad). It was also clear to the arbitration committee that declined the previous ARCA in 2014. Read what Salvio and Seraphimblade said back then. If this does come back to ARCA, the committee should consider whether they need to re-examine their initial decision (the one in January 2018), and whether the decision was made too quickly. Carcharoth (talk) 15:37, 22 January 2018 (UTC) SarekOfVulcan has pointed out (by email) that he re-passed RFA (in 2015, I had forgotten that), so I've struck that bit. Carcharoth (talk) 15:50, 22 January 2018 (UTC) When I supported the motion to suspend the interaction-ban after five years, I did not believe "it was clear that suspending it would leave to problems." I supported the motion because I thought that suspending and eventually lifting the interaction-ban would most likely not lead to problems. In my comment, I asked SarekOfVulcan to maximize the chance that things would go smoothly. I still anticipate, and hope, that Sarek will not do anything that could reasonably be understood as targeted at Doncram. Similarly, I hope that Doncram can move on from this matter—raising any genuine issue that hypothetically might arise about Sarek's behavior in the appropriate forum, but otherwise doing his best to put this chapter behind him. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:04, 22 January 2018 (UTC) Have struck that bit now as well. I don't envy you all having to deal with this. Hopefully it will work out. Carcharoth (talk) 16:36, 22 January 2018 (UTC) I think that we should not take action here, irrespective of what one thinks about the conduct of Doncram. The remedy reads in relevant part: "this restriction may be reinstated by any uninvolved administrator". But I think that it is not appropriate for the Arbitration Committee to delegate this kind of case management authority to random admins who (like me) may know nothing about this apparently longstanding case and the parties. The arbitrators themselves are, by virtue of their familiarity with these elements, much better suited to take any action that may be necessary - either collectively or by delegation to one among their number. The matter should therefore be referred to WP:ARCA. Sandstein 19:45, 22 January 2018 (UTC)