Talk:Siamese Mauser style rifle

Move Page Proposal - Rename to Siamese Mauser or Type 46 Siamese Mauser

Based on research, I am proposing the page be retitled "Siamese Mauser" or "Type 46 Siamese Mauser."

The rifles are marked ร,ศ,๑๒๑ (R.S. 121, for 121st year of Chakri Dynasty) which equates to Bhuddist year 2446 (1903). Later, when Siam changed official documentation to use the Bhuddist year for dates, the rifles were referred to as 'type' or 'model' 46 in official records. "Type 45" refers to the 8x50 rimmed cartridge adopted by Siam in the Bhuddist year 2445 (1902). Many incorrectly refer to the rifle as "Type 45" when, in fact, it is a Type 46 rifle using the Type 45 cartridge.

The current page refers to the specific model as originally issued. However, when the Siamese military decided to adopt a spitzer bullet in 1923, they adopted a modified cartridge (8x52 rimmed) identified as the Type 66 cartridge. The existing Type 46 rifles were re-chambered for the new cartridge and became known as Type 46/66 rifles. The sights were milled down slightly for the new trajectory, but the rifle designation on the receiver bridge was not changed. The Type 46/66 rifles should not be confused with the Type 66 rifles which were the Japanese Type 38 rifle chambered for the 8x52 rimmed Siamese Type 66 cartridge ordered by Siam in 1923.

Given the limited sources and detailed information available, I propose the page be re-titled "Siamese Mauser" with separate sections for the Type 46, Type 46/66, and Type 66 rifles. This is consistent with similar pages like the Japanese Type 38 rifle, which includes sections on the Type 44 carbine and Type 97 sniper rifle, and the M1903 Springfield page, which includes information on the M1903 Mark I, M1903-A3, and M1903-A4.

I will also post a note in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Firearms referring to this talk for discussion before the changing the title. TXGRunner (talk) 00:11, 15 April 2018 (UTC)TXGrunner

Don't know anything about the rifle, but I wanted to point out that the year R.S. 121 corresponds to B.E. 2445 and 1902 CE (more specifically, April 1902 to March 1903). --Paul_012 (talk) 06:53, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the information. I looked it up on other Wikipedia articles, on various calendar calculators/converters, and I am still showing the conversion as being 2446 and 1903. On the Thai solar calendar page it states "The epoch (reference date) for Year 1 was 6 April 1782 with the accession of Rama I...". Adding 121 yields 1903, although I grant there is overlap because the Thai New Year is in April. Further in the text, 1888 is equated with R.S. 106 (adding 15 to both yields 1903 and R.S. 121 respectively). Finally, in the picture provided of the 2004 calendar, the Thai Buddhist year is 2547 (subtracting 101 yields 1903 and 2446 respectively). When I look at Thai Buddhist calendar coverters DateConverter.net or Calendar-Converter.com 2446 is converted to 1903. I did find one calculator that explained for Thai dates, one year should be subtracted. I think the Buddhist and Christian Era years are definitely 2446 and 1903 respectively as explained in the various sources listed. Given the overlap, as R.S. 121 covers part of both 1902 and 1903, the descrepancy could date back to 1903 or 1913 when the calendars were changed. According to the three sources I have, Thai documents identify the rifle as the Type or Model 46.

This issue can be worked out in the main article as additional sources validating R.S. 121 as 2445/1902 or 2446/1903 are presented. I still think we should move the page to reflect all Saimese Mausers.TXGRunner (talk) 18:58, 15 April 2018 (UTC)TXGRunner

You have to add 1781 to the R.S. year to get CE, not 1782, since there was no year zero. This is a mistake made by many. --Paul_012 (talk) 19:02, 15 April 2018 (UTC)