User talk:Countakeshi

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Curious

Hi Countakeshi, I'm curious as to why you removed text at Unter (playing card) and Ober (playing card) which drew a comparison between the German and French card decks. As most English-speaking people are probably unfamiliar with the German decks, I would have thought this was helpful information. Cheers.Bermicourt (talk) 07:57, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

The French jacks are usually copies of Spanish sotas, not wealthy noblemen. There is evidence that both obers and unters originally were mounted on horses (Johannes of Rheinfelden, 1377). The Württemberg pattern is a late 19th century design. Tarot never gained a foothold in Spain, which is one of the few countries in Western Europe where it was absent. Cavaliers are still found in modern French tarot decks. The Queen was not dropped in Germany; outside of novelty decks and tarot decks, the queen was nonstandard. It was the cavalier that was dropped in France.--Countakeshi (talk) 13:08, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi Countakeshi, I just want to thank you for sharing your expertise and wisdom as I've been creating and amending articles on card games. I'm a translator, not a card expert, but having acquired some German decks, I'm interested in learning to play the games associated with them and developing articles is one way of doing that. It's good to know there's experienced help around. Cheers. Bermicourt (talk) 21:16, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for translating many of the articles from the German wiki. There are some factual errors and claims that need to be checked from the untranslated articles but that will be corrected eventually. Many of these articles lack sources which may take some time to gather.--Countakeshi (talk) 21:50, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

No worries. Do let me know if you spot any errors or have any queries. I'm happy to check the articles over, now that my understanding of both German and English terminology is better - I've already gone back and changed some of the wording to reflect English usage. I also have access to sources such as Parlett's Book of Card Games and Danyliuk's 1x1 der Kartenspiele which I've used to correct or clarify one or two things as well as the online www.pagat.com. They don't always agree with one another though! Bermicourt (talk) 12:41, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Ottocento (card game)

Hi, I've just created the above as a redirect to the relevant section of Tarocchini. Does it merit adding to the template as a separate link or is it too close to Tarocchini? Bermicourt (talk) 18:22, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Ottocento is a tarocchini game. Tarocchini is a group of related games that include ottocento which is the most popular form.--Countakeshi (talk) 18:35, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Cego and Droggn

Hi Countakeshi, thank you for your helpful edits on Template:Tarot and Tarock card games. I know there's no hard and fast definition of the distinction between 'tarot' and 'tarock', but I'm just curious to know why you moved Cego and Droggn to Tarock and Tarot respectively. Cego has its own bespoke deck and is not played with the classic Austrian Industrie und Glück cards, typical of Tarock games. That said, it is called Badisches Tarock, so there is an argument from terminology, but then the Germans call French Tarot 'Französiches Tarock' to confuse matters and, of course, there are those games like Bavarian Tarock which don't use tarot/tarock decks! For me, the 'tarocks' are a family of games played with the Industrie und Glück deck in central European countries where there are referred to as 'Tarock' or 'Tarokk' locally. So Droggn seems clear-cut to me - it's an Austrian tarock game traditionally played with Industrie und Glück cards and IMHO falls clearly into the tarock category. Thoughts? Bermicourt (talk) 08:01, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Tarock and tarot are just transliterations of tarocchi. There is no difference. Card game writers split tarot games into two large categories: ones where the fool acts as an excuse and ones where the fool is the highest trump. The only place that considers tarot, tarocchi, or tarock as separate categories is the tarot card games article (which should be rewritten). Cego treats the fool as the highest trump and is a descendant of tapp-tarock, droggn treats the fool as an excuse and is descended from tarocc'ombre. The rules define what category they belong to, the actual deck is of no significance. The same game can be played with different decks depending on the era. Card games should also be in lower case unless they are commercial card games.--Countakeshi (talk) 01:53, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

Interesting. Re your last comment, the sources must vary because leading authorities like Dummett, Parlett, Arnold and the www.pagat.com website all use title case when referring to card games. Bermicourt (talk) 07:49, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

Sources and DYKs

BTW I'm working on better sourcing for the Austrian and German card game articles and running one or two through the DYK process. Königrufen was a challenge but we got there in the end. Illustrated Tarock was also successful. Grasobern is in the pipeline along with Quodlibet. Bermicourt (talk) 08:06, 4 September 2018 (UTC)