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{{ITN candidate|article=2020 Michigan coup d'état attempt}}
{{ITN candidate|article=2020 Michigan coup d'état attempt}}
*'''Oppose''' Nothingburger --[[Special:Contributions/212.74.201.241|212.74.201.241]] ([[User talk:212.74.201.241|talk]]) 17:44, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Nothingburger --[[Special:Contributions/212.74.201.241|212.74.201.241]] ([[User talk:212.74.201.241|talk]]) 17:44, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Even if expanded to a reasonable article, this was stopped before it actually happened. It might be different if it was a federal-level person, but even then, a failed kidnapping or the like is really not notable for ITN. --[[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 17:51, 8 October 2020 (UTC)


====RD: Ram Vilas Paswan====
====RD: Ram Vilas Paswan====

Revision as of 17:51, 8 October 2020

Click here to nominate an item for In the news. In the news toolbox
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Archives

October 8

October 8, 2020 (2020-10-08) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

RD: 2020 Michigan coup d'état attempt

Article: 2020 Michigan coup d'état attempt (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)

RD: Ram Vilas Paswan

Article: Ram Vilas Paswan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Times of India; NDTV
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Current Indian Union Minister DogeChungus (talk) 15:54, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Sca. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 16:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Indonesia omnibus bill protests

Proposed image
Articles: Indonesia omnibus bill protests (talk · history · tag) and Omnibus Law on Job Creation (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Protests in Indonesia ensue following the enactment of the Omnibus Law on Job Creation. (Post)
News source(s): New York Times, Bloomberg, Reuters, CNN, CNA, Anadolu Agency
Credits:

 Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 15:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. It is a big thing occurring and definitely deserves a seat at the Main Page. GeraldWL 15:22, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank Luis for that. Luis clearly have some balls to get out and record the demonstrations (and not get injured). Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 16:06, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – RS coverage, beyond the region, of three days of protests reports 1,000s of demonstrators in multiple locations met with tear gas and water cannon, no fatalities. – Sca (talk) 16:17, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Sca: 6 police wounded. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 16:25, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Nobel Prize in Literature

Proposed image
Article: Louise Glück (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Poet Louise Glück (pictured) is awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature (Post)
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: The article is well developed and looks in decent shape, though some of the awards need references. Modest Genius talk 11:14, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If we're going to use an image from >40 years ago, we should probably say that in the caption. Modest Genius talk 13:56, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely, hence why I noted its from '77 here. Sadly, while she had gotten a medal of honor from Pres. Obama, I can't find a .gov based image of her, and the only .gov based images are all third-party credits (not PD-gov works). --Masem (t) 13:59, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

October 7

October 7, 2020 (2020-10-07) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Two world records in athletics

Articles: Letesenbet Gidey (talk · history · tag) and Joshua Cheptegei (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In athletics, Letesenbet Gidey and Joshua Cheptegei set new world records in the women's 5000 metres and the men's 10,000 metres, respectively. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Two world records, each over 10 years old, have been broken yesterday. The updates are a bit short but not much can be added apart from the competition details, I suppose. We regularly post the marathon world records (4 in the last 10 years), but those two have stood longer. --Tone 08:56, 8 October 2020 (UTC) Tone 08:56, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In this point in athletics history, when we have reached almost the extent of human capability, increases to world records are going to be incremental and small. It's inevitable. Crushing a record a'la Bob Beamon is going to be extraordinarily rare.--WaltCip-(talk) 14:06, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle. Two new world records set at the same competition is clearly newsworthy. Also, both results are remarkable because of the relatively large margins compared to the previous world records.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:09, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Ray Pennington

Article: Ray Pennington (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Tennessean; WKRN-TV (ABC); WTVF (CBS)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 05:21, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mario Molina

Article: Mario Molina (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): El Universal
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Mexican chemist. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 01:36, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Hurricane Delta

Nominator withdrew until storm hits the US. After that, nominator says there will be a new blurb. So there is no reason to keep this open unless you want into to be a breeding for pointless discussion. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 18:27, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Hurricane Delta (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Hurricane Delta makes landfall on the Yucatán Peninsula as a Category 2 Hurricane. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Hurricane Delta makes landfall in the Yucatán Peninsula, causing widespread blackouts in Cancun.
News source(s): (ABC News) (The Weather Channel) (National Hurricane Center)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Nothing confirmed in the way of deaths or damage, but since news will come over the next week, I put it as ongoing. Elijahandskip (talk) 15:44, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That was the alt blurb. Main blurb doesn’t mention the state of emergency. Also ongoing events don’t have the blurb. Elijahandskip (talk) 16:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's still not (yet) remotely worthy of ITN. —Brigade Piron (talk) 17:09, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Brigade Piron: I agree, since the Mexican President just announced that no deaths occurred during the storm. I suggest @Elijahandskip: that you withdraw from this nom, and then re-nominate it once it hits to United States (Louisiana can't bear another major hurricane, it's still struggling with Laura). ~ Destroyeraa🌀 17:14, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Golden Dawn verdict

Article: Golden Dawn (political party)#Declaration as criminal organisation (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Greek political party Golden Dawn have been found guilty of being a Neo-Nazi criminal organisation. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The far-right Greek political party Golden Dawn is ruled to be a neo-Nazi criminal organization.
News source(s): GuardianBBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Article looks to have been updated, but it's fairly new and sentencing is not yet completed, biggest trial of fascists since Nuremberg EdwardLane (talk) 12:23, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

-- Sorry if I don't edit in the correct way, please do it for me. Although I don't agree with this point, I should correct the facts, they actually have 1 EMP who is found guilty today, even if he dissociated himself from the party recently. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Foivos87 (talk • contribs) 17:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

They're fringe now, though, and they've always been extremists, from what I've seen. – Sca (talk) 12:40, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Nobel Prize in Chemistry

Proposed image
Articles: Emmanuelle Charpentier (talk · history · tag) and Jennifer Doudna (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Emmanuelle Charpentier and Jennifer Doudna (both pictured) are awarded the Nobel Prize in Chemistry for the development of a method for genome editing. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Articles almost ready, at a quick glance. Genome editing should probably directly state CRISPR gene editing, or maybe there is a better target. Tone 10:26, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

October 6

October 6, 2020 (2020-10-06) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Science and technology

Sports

RD: Herbert Feuerstein

Article: Herbert Feuerstein (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): FAZ
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: He made people laugh. - I added a bit, it's still short. More in the sources. Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:44, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Johnny Nash

Article: Johnny Nash (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN, WGN-TV
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Not sure what state the article is in, but I feel he's worth discussing. Singer-songwriter behind I Can See Clearly Now. -BRAINULATOR9 (TALK) 01:01, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted RD) RD/Blurb: Eddie Van Halen

(non-admin closure) No consensus for a blurb. Posted to RD. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 15:18, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Eddie Van Halen (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Dutch-American guitarist Eddie Van Halen dies at the age of 65. (Post)
News source(s): TMZ, LA Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
 Johndavies837 (talk) 19:43, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support A couple of refs and a little copy editing is needed, however I assume that the article will be in good shape soon. Eddie Van Halen is definitely ITN material. KittenKlub (talk) 19:53, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support There is on CN as I read it now, and I would REALLY like to see that Other Work proseline killed quickly in favor of real prose (it sticks out badly). And to nip this in the bud, Oppose blurb - perhaps a symbol of the 80s for a lot of people around my age group but not the type of influential musician as someone like Bowie or Prince - his career was too closely tied with the band itself and not so much any direct solo work. --Masem (t) 19:51, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, but it was basically his band. --Bongwarrior (talk) 20:12, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Nobel Prize in Physics

Proposed image
Article: No article specified
Blurb: ​ Roger Penrose (pictured), Andrea Ghez and Reinhard Genzel are awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics for their work on black holes. (Post)
News source(s): Nobel Prize
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Today is the physics prize. Penrose received half for his theoretical work on black holes in general relativity, whilst Genzel and Ghez received a quarter each for observing the black hole in Sgr A*. It's not easy to get those reasons into the blurb, so I stuck with a link to black hole (a GA). As with the medicine prize yesterday, the articles on the winners should be the bold links, but need work. Modest Genius talk 10:58, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ghez's article is short but has just one {{cn}} to address. Genzel is missing a lot of references for awards etc. Penrose's article is much longer but has long passages with no references so will be the hardest to fix. I think we can post once Ghez is ready with just that article bolded, then bold the others as/when they're ready. Modest Genius talk 11:22, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately that black hole (M87*) is not related to their work. Modest Genius talk 11:23, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've looked for a free image of Ghez with no luck but made up a compoosite image for Penrose and Genzel. --Masem (t) 14:22, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's going to look pretty bad if we show images of the two men but not the woman... Better not to have an image at all. Modest Genius talk 14:39, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I recognize that issue, but again, there's simply no apparent free images of Ghez. That said, we can always just show Penrose (who has half the prize here) and of which there's more than plenty to pull from. --Masem (t) 14:44, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support Masem's "just show Penrose" suggestion per his lifelong prominence. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:17, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What about File:UCLA astrophysicist Andrea Mia Ghez.jpg? It has been in her article for a while. Brandmeistertalk 17:10, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Something's odd: I go to the source that image claims, which is an NSF page (ok so far), here [1] but it says there "Credit: Courtesy of the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation via Wikimedia Commons" and the image is linked to a 2014 article [2] which implies we had an image here before that NSF used, but I don't see any signs of that image. So something's very odd here, and I'd not want to use it unless I knew the original source for sure. --Masem (t) 17:27, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like that image originally came from here. Copyright info there is broadly CC-BY-NC-ND, but it specifically carves out an exception for media organizations to use its media, including photos, under CC-BY. jSarek (talk) 18:23, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That is a weird license, which I don't think works for us because that means it doesn't apply to redistributors of our content that don't meet their definition of "media". I am confirming over at Commons to make sure if this is a problem. We are in no rush but if this is usable, I will composite the three shots to one. --Masem (t) 19:46, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Commons has confirmed this is not a good enough license for us to use as "Free" because its conditional. --Masem (t) 13:20, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Najeeb Tarakai

Article: Najeeb Tarakai (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): International Cricket Council
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: International cricketer, died in a road accident aged 29 Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 06:57, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you all. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 19:40, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

October 5

October 5, 2020 (2020-10-05) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) Blurb/Ongoing: 2020 Kyrgyzstan protests

Article: 2020 Kyrgyzstan protests (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Violent protests in Kyrgyzstan break out due to the results of the Kyrgyz parliamentary election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Protesters seize multiple government buildings in the midst of the Coup d'état during violent protests in Kyrgyzstan.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Protesters seize multiple government buildings, including the White House, and release former president Atumbaev from prison, in the midst of violent protests in Kyrgyzstan.
Alternative blurb III: ​ The results of the Kyrgyz parliamentary election are annulled following violent protests in Kyrgyzstan.
Alternative blurb IV: ​ The results of the Kyrgyz parliamentary election are annulled following violent protests, which resulted in protesters seizing multiple government buildings, including the White House, and releasing former president Atumbaev from prison.
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Developing story. Protesters sezed the president's residence and several other buildings. The article is a bit short at the moment. Tone 09:42, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Tropical Storm Gamma

WP:SNOW close. The storm is dead and didn’t do anything notable for storms in that region. We can possibly mention(not re-nominate) Gamma once Delta, a much stronger storm, hits the area.However, closing original discussion per consensus below.~ Destroyeraa🌀 21:57, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: Tropical Storm Gamma (2020) (talk · history · tag) and 2020 Atlantic hurricane season (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Six people are killed as Tropical Storm Gamma approaches the coast of Mexico. (Post)
News source(s): (National Hurricane Center, (Accu Weather)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Article is definitely good enough for an ITN. My only concern is the number of deaths. Only 5 deaths doesn't seem that bad, until you look at it. The Tropical Storm hasn't made landfall yet and has already killed 5 people. More people will probably die from it, so if you oppose now, maybe make a comment that it might change if # of deaths goes up. Elijahandskip (talk) 18:39, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Bob Wilson

Article: Bob Wilson (footballer, born 1943) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Exeter City FC, Devon Live
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Retired English professional footballer. No specific death date announced (just October 2020). TJMSmith (talk) 15:57, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: K. K. Usha

Article: K. K. Usha (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Live Law
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian judge who served as Chief Justice of the Kerala High Court. TJMSmith (talk) 15:51, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Nobel Prize in Medicine

Article: No article specified
Blurb: ​ Harvey Alter, Michael Houghton and Charles Rice are awarded the Nobel Prize in Medicine for their discovery of the virus that causes hepatitis C (Post)
News source(s): Guardian
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Nobel Prize week is upon us, with the medicine prize announced today. I suggest we bold-link the articles of the winners as each is updated; they all need work. Alter's is the best at the moment but has some unreferenced statements. I included a link to hepatitis C in the blurb, not just the virus, because it's a GA. Modest Genius talk 12:53, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • WaitSupport Until the peace prize is announced on the 9th, then we should definetly post. I guess it is common practice to post individually. Oh well, Support in that case. Gex4pls (talk) 13:20, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article and ITN/R all fine. Imagine trying to post all the Nobel Prizes in one blurb - it wouldn't fit in the box. Just post it. Kingsif (talk) 14:00, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Masem, tis the Nobel season. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:01, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose posting only the Award page. These are not super long bios, and it should be easy from the Nobel's committee and articles that should appear (if not already) in NYTimes and other major papers to flesh out the three winners. I've done this in the past several years, it is not hard. (Separately, I've tried searching for free images of Rice with no luck, if we want a composite image of Alter and Houghton like I did for the London Marathon winners, I can do that). --Masem (t) 14:19, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I deliberately did not bold the awards article - that was Destroyeraa. Undone. There's no way that general article could have a substantial update on just the 2020 award. Unfortunately I don't have time to polish the bios right now (and might save my time for the physics prize). Modest Genius talk 14:37, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per nominator. I honestly dunno what is going on here. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 14:42, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment For multiple winners, I thought we only bolded the prize? Well, you're going to need a lot more refs for Alter, Houghton and Rice seem mostly fine. Kingsif (talk) 15:13, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • No, we always go for the individual winners. The prize article is trivial to update and barring a complete lack of info on the winners (unlikely) would be the last resort. Clearly not the case here, and it only takes a man-hour or two of work to get all three to shape. --Masem (t) 16:04, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose only because if we post this, then we would have to post all the other Nobel Prizes, and it would clog up ITN. I propose that we combine all the Nobel Prizes into one post that we make when Nobel season is over. The Image Editor (talk) 16:50, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, we do post all the other Nobel Prizes. This happens every year and we've never combined blurbs before. They're separate entries at Wikipedia:In_the_news/Recurring_items#Nobel_Prizes. Modest Genius talk 17:01, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Just because we've never done it does not mean we can't. This is not a court. Stare decisis does not hold. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 17:32, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Putting them all together would be long, would take up a large part of the space by itself, and by the time the last one is awarded on the 9th this would already be getting stale as older news. Best to continue separating the blurbs, and let them fall off one by one after a few days or a week. The Peace Prize alone would have to be a blurb, so for consistency (and yearly consistency) they should go up one-by-one while they are still news. Randy Kryn (talk) 17:43, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It is better if the ticker runs faster. Abductive (reasoning) 17:54, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

October 4

October 4, 2020 (2020-10-04) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime
  • Nigerian Inspector General of Police Mohammed Adamu bans the Special Anti-Robbery Squad and other tactical units from engaging in stop-and-search operations at traffic stops and from setting up roadblocks, as well as mandating that all police officers wear uniforms while on-duty, in response to mounting allegations of agents unlawfully arresting and torturing suspects. (Al Jazeera)

Politics and elections

RD: Jan des Bouvrie

Article: Jan des Bouvrie (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Nederlandse Omroep Stichting
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Dutch architect, interior and product designer TJMSmith (talk) 16:45, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Carla Federica Nespolo

Article: Carla Federica Nespolo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): la Repubblica
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Italian politician. TJMSmith (talk) 16:42, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Richard Schifter

Article: Richard Schifter (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Times of Israel
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Austrian-American attorney and diplomat who served as Assistant Secretary of State for Human Rights and Humanitarian Affairs from 1985 to 1992. TJMSmith (talk) 16:13, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mordechai Yissachar Ber Leifer

Article: Mordechai Yissachar Ber Leifer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Behadrei HaHareidim (Hebrew),Times of Israel
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Rebbe of the Pittsburgh Hasidic dynasty for the past 30 years, followers in both U.S. (where he was born) and Israel. Yoninah (talk) 12:58, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. Reasonably extensive and well-sourced article. However, if we need to explain that Ashdod is in Israel we do also need to explain that New Jersey is in the United States in the infobox! —Brigade Piron (talk) 15:14, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @SusanLesch: I have either deleted or commented out those statements requiring cites. He was just buried a few hours ago. As more obituaries are published in the English-speaking world, I will update the article. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 16:56, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) New Caledonia independence referendum

Article: 2020 New Caledonian independence referendum (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ New Caledonia votes to remain a French overseas territory (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ New Caledonia votes to remain a French overseas territory in the second of three possible referenda agreed in the Nouméa Accord
News source(s): [4]
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Does ITN post failed independence referendums, or is that only for Scotland? Let's find out. Banedon (talk) 03:33, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Kenzō Takada

Article: Kenzō Takada (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BFMTV AFP, Variety
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Notable fashion designer, founder of Kenzo. Johndavies837 (talk) 16:08, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2020 London Marathon

Proposed image
Article: 2020 London Marathon (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The 2020 London Marathon men's and women's races are won by Shura Kitata (pictured, left) and Brigid Kosgei. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Shura Kitata (pictured, left) and Brigid Kosgei win the 2020 London Marathon men's and women's races.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: WP:ITNR, article has been updated with race summaries, and in way better shape than 2018 London Marathon article was when it was on ITN. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:01, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Prefer Alt. – Sca (talk) 22:21, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Good. Now let's get Nagorno-Karabakh into Ongoing, where it definitely belongs. – Sca (talk) 22:48, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Fratelli tutti

No consensus, stale. Stephen 00:24, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Fratelli tutti (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Pope Francis (coat of arms pictured) realeased his latest encyclical, Fratelli tutti (Post)
News source(s): [6], [7]
Credits:
Nominator's comments: first time a nominate an article for ITN, sorry if I made any mistake Veverve (talk) 12:46, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am not a Catholic myself, but do not think a "law" is a good analogy for an encyclical, but nor is the Dalai Lama a good analogy for the Pope. There are fewer than 400 million Buddhists (many of whom do not recognise the Dalai Lama's authority) against 1.2 billion Catholics. —Brigade Piron (talk) 15:09, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Be those as they may, I feel that this is still an announcement by a highly-respected figure, which while nice is still inappropriate for ITN. I don't know if we've posted previous papal encyclicals, or whether my opinion would change if we have. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 15:54, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

October 3

October 3, 2020 (2020-10-03) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Charlie Haeger

Article: Charlie Haeger (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, Daily Mail, CNN
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: I'm surprised it wasn't nominated. Former MLB player. He was suspect of killing his ex-girlfriend. Found dead with a self-inflicted gunshot wound. --SirEdimon Dimmi!!! 20:22, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Thomas Jefferson Byrd

Article: Thomas Jefferson Byrd (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN,Variety
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Prolific character actor in Spike Lee, other, films CoatCheck (talk) 23:20, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Removed) Ongoing removal: Wildfires

Article: 2020 Western United States wildfire season (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)

Nominator's comments: Last date in timeline in article body is from September 22. Fires are still ongoing, though in a diminished capacity that is no longer ITN-level news. Morgan695 (talk) 06:25, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There are indeed still fires burning, but most of the enormous blazes that were threatening urban centers have been contained. We don't need to keep an ongoing item up for smaller conflagrations that are no longer in the news (it doesn't help that other stories are squeezing it out).--WaltCip-(talk) 15:20, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support according to the guidelines, the target is not getting regular content updates however Oppose according to the criteria used to keep other festering shit in the box for months on end because the "sub articles" are getting updates and here are some links to WP:RS which aren't in the target but who cares [9] [10] [11] [12]. When we decide what criteria are used to judge this OG item you can count the appropriate !vote from me. --LaserLegs (talk) 12:36, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • @LaserLegs: Uh... not sure what you’re getting at. Support or oppose or comment? ~ Destroyeraa🌀 00:01, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Well it really depends. If we're using the "protests criteria" (Belarus, Venezuela, Hong Kong, India) then I oppose because much like those articles, this one is getting minuscule updates but you can see I dragged up some WP:RS to prove it's still "in the news" and highlighted the "sub articles" which are getting updates. It seems, however, that we're following the actual criteria and removed it for being stale. I'm just trying to figure out when the two different criteria for Ongoing items applies. --LaserLegs (talk) 12:46, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Destroyeraa, whom I consider to be the authority on these sorts of disaster articles.--WaltCip-(talk) 15:16, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Seems fair, there haven't been updates for a couple of weeks.  — Amakuru (talk) 18:22, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Did you look at the article? It was updated yesterday with two new fires. Does anyone actually look at the targets when considering ongoing noms? --LaserLegs (talk) 20:45, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I did. I looked at the Timeline of Events section, where as far as I can see the latest date mentioned in September 22. I don't count simple entries in the list, because that doesn't represent a newsworthy update to the article. There may be fires still happening at the moment, but not to an extent that meets our usual Ongoing requirements. As indeed you acknowledge yourself above.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:37, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Cal. fires this year have burned a record 6,250 sq. mi. (16,180 sq. km.). That's extraordinary by any measure. Still burning. - Sca (talk) 22:34, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Mendocino Complex Fire continued burning well into October and November, as did the Camp Fire. You're going to be posting "still burning" for a while.--WaltCip-(talk) 11:53, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) White House outbreak of COVID-19

Closing as there is no consensus to post this as things are now and its seems unlikely to develop. If things change, the discussion can resume. 331dot (talk) 16:27, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: White House outbreak of COVID-19 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Seven top federal officials, including President Donald Trump have been infected with COVID-19 in an outbreak at the White House. (Post)
News source(s): AP, BBC
Credits:
Nominator's comments: We properly rejected an ITN nomination on Trump's personal diagnosis, but the past day has made it clear that the condition is not limited to Trump, but rather part of an ongoing outbreak among the top echelon of the federal government, affecting President, Senators, and exposing a nominee for President and a nominee for the Supreme Court. With all three branches affected and the presidential campaigns and debates in flux, recent comparison to Boris Johnson are, regrettably, no longer valid.

The outbreak merits inclusion in our frontpage, I encourage you to mention it. Feoffer (talk) 07:32, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose – Same basic topic as yesterday's DT-virus nom. – Sca (talk) 12:09, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Rather more severe than the Brits’ outbreak, since 10 people have gotten it already, and this thing spreads really quickly. Trump hospitalized, Biden exposed, and it’s getting close to the election. What a mess! ~ Destroyeraa🌀 12:19, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support one cannot deny the story is in the news. --LaserLegs (talk) 12:31, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. This is not exactly the same as the earlier nomination, which was just about Trump; this is about a decent chunk of the US federal government getting it. I might suggest that Feoffer propose a blurb for consideration(if possible, using the template provided for blurb nominations above the edit window for this page). 331dot (talk) 12:35, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I added the template for the benefit of everyone reading this. TompaDompa (talk) 12:44, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I was skeptical when the news first broke, but given the repurcissions (on the elections, the governance of a superpower) and given how it has spread beyond the president, yeah, no doubt this should be posted. It's major news, with significant impact. It's also the top headline in news outlets outside the US. 2A02:A451:8B2D:1:E4C9:4335:D6E3:43CF (talk) 12:44, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose no denying it's in the news, but we are not a news ticker and the actual global impact of this is at best unknown. Essentially this is either a covid story or a US election story, and either way we don't give blow by blow accounts if everything that develops in those ongoing sagas.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We did not post when other world leaders got it, nor do we post due to the speculated importance this has based on the media. We're not going to posted because of the US bias of the world news. --Masem (t) 13:44, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Now apart from Trump, three U.S. Republican Senators have tested positive since yesterday already. Regarding "peculated importance this has based on the media", we are in fact supposed to look at what the sources say about the importance of various events, rather than speculate about their importance or lack thereof themselves, as all the opposes do above. By the way, not that anyone here will care but the top two pageviews for Oct 2, were for Hope Hicks with 1,213,508 pageviews, and for Donald Trump, with 434,632 pageviews. that was before the wave of positive diagnoses from people near Trump in the White House and the Congress became known. Clearly, the Wikipedia readers have their own idea on whether the topic is 'in the news'. Nsk92 (talk) 14:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - per Nsk. The #1 thing our readers are looking for, and it's (still) front page news around the world. It's undeniably the biggest news story in the world right now. (And it's at least as important as the Stanley Cup, which has been on our front page for a week.) Lev!vich 14:35, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • WP is not a newspaper. If readers are looking for this on WP, they are in the wrong place. That's CNN, BBC, or even Wikinews. We have no idea if this is yet an encyclopedia topic of enduring coverage. --Masem (t) 14:46, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • How many times are you going to repeat that? Why is the Stanley Cup worthy of putting on our front page but POTUS getting COVID a month before the election is not? Tell me what logic supports this outcome. Stop linking to not news because this is called "IN THE NEWS" so yes it's clearly where we link stories that are in the news. This is in the news. So let's proceed from there: why should this story not be posted while other news stories are? What's the difference between this and the Stanley Cup or Arm-Aze or anything else we post? Lev!vich 14:56, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • Because the Stanley Cup is an enduring topic of coverage, having a long history to it. We have zero idea if this COVID outbreak will have any impact on anything at this point, it is all wild speculation by the press who right now are frothing at the mouth with election coverage. Its clear night and day difference. --Masem (t) 15:00, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          You completely lose me when you say that the Stanley Cup is an enduring topic of coverage but POTUS getting COVID a month before an election might not be. I must be on an entirely different planet than you are right now. On my planet, every US presidential election has more enduring coverage, and more impact upon the world, than any Stanley Cup. On my planet, Trump getting COVID has already received far more global coverage than the Stanley Cup could ever hope for. I don't remember Le Monde or Bild putting the Stanley Cup on their front page for multiple days. You can replace "Stanley Cup" with anything on ITNC now or recently and it still holds true: new Kuwaiti Emir, Nag-Kar, and Arm-Abz... none of those have received anything close to the international news coverage that Trump/COVID has already received after less than 48hrs. Also, none of those are anywhere near as much interest to our readers (as determined by page views) as Trump/COVID. If we're not going to list the world's biggest news story on ITN, there's really no point to having an ITN. Lev!vich 15:33, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
            • Right now, Trump + other WH members getting COVID is still in the "burst of coverage" level of news. Every reporter is speculating on what will happen - will the next debates be cancelled, is this an October surprise, is this a ploy, etc. etc. As an encyclopedia, we have to look past that to identify if this is really a story to document in depth. There are certainly facts to be documented, but the weight of the story from an encyclopedic view is of yet unknown value, because it has no currently known impact on events. This is NOT#NEWS, NOT#CRYSTALBALL and a whole host of other NOTs at play. While what readers want to see is of some importance we also know they are not the best judgement of what makes an encyclopedia, as otherwise if we went by pageviews and reader interest, we would drop our academic side and focus on celebrity gossip, Pokemon lists, and Game of Throne summaries. Readers coming to WP as if it were a newspaper are unfortunately doing themselves a disservice because that is not our purpose at all. --Masem (t) 15:59, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
              • I bet you can't name an example of a story (from any time in history) that was on the front page of every newspaper in the world for two days but did not have lasting encyclopedic significance (or whatever test for inclusion we want to use). Or to put it another way, which of these things is not like the others: celebrity gossip, Pokemon, Game of Thrones, the Stanley Cup, the leader of the free world being hospitalized with the modern day plague a month before his election. Lev!vich 16:06, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
                • You have been arguing on pageviews and what readers want to see, that's what I presented. And of course we have posted stories that have dominated headlines for several days because the enduring importance is immediately obvious, such as after aircraft disasters, major earthquakes and hurricane/typhoon landfalls. I can't think immediately of examples of other cases, nor would be easy to check, but I am certain there are cases of ITNCs that we have not posted where the support !votes have pointed out (appropriately) worldwide frontpage coverage, for at least that day, but which we have not posted due to lack of clear enduring importance. This is how we distinguish what is news and what is an appropriate topic for an encyclopedia. And of course, there is also the systematic bias factor here that we should not be posting the case of US leaders getting it when we have not at all posted the other major world leaders having gotten and recovered from it. --Masem (t) 16:20, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
                  I don't think I'll ever understand why routine sporting events like the Stanley Cup and the 2020 London Marathon "is an appropriate topic for an encyclopedia" with "enduring importance" (suitable for the main page) but POTUS getting COVID is "news" (not suitable for the main page). Lev!vich 16:15, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Multiple senators and top officials in the White House and the Trump campaign have all been infected, in addition to the president, and the story continues to develop while getting top billing in international RS. I would support ongoing as well. Davey2116 (talk) 14:36, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Amakuru and Masem. If something actually happened rather than press speculation on what might happen if certain things happened, I might support this replacing the Stanley Cup, but this will only push the Arm-Aze conflict instead. ITN isn't known to much consider if what's proposed is more newsworthy+encyclopaedic than what's live, which is not always a good thing. Usedtobecool ☎️ 14:46, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Weak) Support per my reasons outlined on the ITN talk page. Amakuru's rationale of "it's in the news, but we are not a news ticker" is just about the most laughable thing I have ever seen since I've started contributing to ITN.--WaltCip-(talk) 14:57, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    With all due respect (and I mean that, because you're a valuable editor here), you clearly haven't picked up the conventions that we follow here since you "started contributing to ITN" then. If you think one of our guiding principles is laughable. Newspapers print tens or hundreds of stories every day of the year, and sometimes they all print the same thing as each other around the world. This applied to the confirmation of Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court, it applied when Boris got COVID, it also applied when Kirk Douglas died. But ITN has always weighed such coverage against enduring encyclopedic value, because that's the reason the section exists and it ties into our first pillar, which is that we are an encyclopedia. And clearly we can't post hundreds of stories a day ourselves. If you think there's something wrong with the "not a news ticker" convention then seek to get it changed on the talk page, rather than ribbing me and numerous other editors for invoking it for the 10,000th time in the last 15 years. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 15:33, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Amakuru: I concede to your point regarding encyclopedic value, and also concede that in its current state the story is less encyclopedic value and more political intrigue. I admit I was looking at it purely from the prism of newsworthiness. I'll downgrade to a weak support and strike out my admittedly excessive comment against you. I apologize.--WaltCip-(talk) 15:42, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @WaltCip: many thanks for your reasoned response here. I agree that there's a fine line sometimes, and this one may be somewhat borderline, but for me it's still on the wait-and-see side of the line in terms of the lack of knowledge of its impact. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 10:06, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    What I disagree with (and kind of think is ridiculous) isn't the principle that we are not a news ticker, it's the suggestion that this story is a "news ticker" story. An example of a "news ticker" story would be "Trump and Biden hold first debate". That's the kind of blow-by-blow election coverage that we should not include in ITN. This, on the other hand, is global, front page, breaking news. It can't be dismissed as just a blip in the news cycle. Lev!vich 15:44, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I can get behind "enduring encyclopedic value" as a criterion, but it's unclear to me what that means. If an article exists on Wikipedia, it has already cleared Wikipedia's notability guidelines, so the community has already decided that the topic is worthy of coverage in an encyclopedia. The ITN community seems to have stricter standards, but it is unclear what those standards are and how they are applied, especially when a story that is getting as much coverage as the Trump White House COVID outbreak is deemed not significant enough to post but the outcome of a hockey game is. Qono (talk) 22:05, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, I think we can all agree that (with the exception of RD) merely having an article is not enough to merit posting an event at ITN. We wouldn't expect to post things like the 2017 EFL Trophy Final. And maybe you're right that the standards aren't very well-defined. As someone keeps noting, we posted a bus plunge story a few weeks ago, mainly because it had a high death toll, but obviously it's global impact was negligible. The White House outbreak, on the other hand, hasn't killed anyone yet and may not do so. If everyone recovers safely within a week, then it becomes a non-story. The same was true when Boris Johnson got COVID - that was front page news around the world too, and he even ended up in intensive care - it looked like his life was genuinely in the balance - but we still didn't post. And rightly so, because ultimately he recovered and life went on as normal. As such, that story ended up as little more than a news-ticker item. The Trump outbreak may likewise be so. Obviusly it escalates into something more then that's when we post. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 10:06, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I won't support as I haven't time to review quality, but the notion that this story is ephemeral is ludicrous. We're still talking about the Comey letter four years later, and that is substantially less impactful than the sitting POTUS being hospitalized with a deadly virus a month before the election. GreatCaesarsGhost 15:41, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Will certainly have *some* historic significance - much more so than the Stanley Cup. Historians are still writing about Grover Cleveland’s mouth growth. Zagalejo^^^ 15:54, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, as its significance is yet uknown; several world leaders have had Covid, and have recovered; if it spreads enough to paralyze the executive branch, or to bring succession into play, then we might consider it. Vanamonde (Talk) 16:02, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support While it is probably the most notable thing happening today, the article itself needs work. Mcrsftdog (talk) 16:48, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support Not in terms of the president getting it, but the idea that there's a localized outbreak in, of all places, the center of government (rather than random cities). Hopefully that would be posted in any other country. Kingsif (talk) 17:06, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Spanish center of government suffered an outbreak on March and I didn't even consider it relevant to be nominated here. While government functions are maintained, it becomes anecdotal, sad, but anecdotal.Alsoriano97 (talk) 17:20, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You mean when the deputy leader of the third largest party tested positive? Wow, indeed I would not have nominated that either. Spot the difference. 2A02:A451:8B2D:1:E4C9:4335:D6E3:43CF (talk) 17:32, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Get informed or read better. I didn't said Parliament, I said center of government, where some of Moncloa palace workers got infected, even one died. Also, two minister of the Spanish government and the First Vicepresident tested positive, including several members of the technical committee (one of them was the "Spanish Fauci") and the world didn't stop turning. The world is not America. Alsoriano97 (talk) 18:08, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, Vanamonde has said it all. Notable for the US, but just interesting for non-American people. Not even members of the government other than president Trump are infected, so the impact on the executive branch is little (if the president's health doesn't deteriorate). Other countries have suffered a situtation like this. Senators? Wow, so many others in the world have been tested postitive or have died. Alsoriano97 (talk) 17:16, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: This has been, quite literally, in the news - the top story on most English-language sources and many non-English ones, not just those in America, for over 24 hours. It is noteworthy, the article is decent, and should be posted. As someone else pointed out, if our standards allow a post about the Stanley Cup winner, they should allow a post about this. Ganesha811 (talk) 17:40, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Ganesha8 This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 17:54, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose There's not enough happening yet to post; the potential for something big to happen is why news sources are covering it. At least there's an article now. I'm also not sure who the "seven top officials" are supposed to be -- we have a president and 3 senators, beyond that there's advisors like former governor Chris Christie and party apparatchiks like Ronna Romney McDaniel. power~enwiki (π, ν) 18:10, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ambivalent. It is likely that further cases will be reported in the coming days, and there may be broader repercussions - delaying the Supreme Court confirmation hearings, cancelling presidential debates, and the like. There is also a line of questioning in the media about whether the timeline indicates that Trump knew he had the disease before attending certain events, which would expand the scope substantially beyond the Rose Garden event. However, I would wait until any or all of these repercussions manifest in some tangible way. BD2412 T 18:36, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for a range of reasons. A lack of significance, particularly the diagnoses of anyone other than Mr and Mrs Trump. ITN is not The Top 25. Any speculation about future effects is just that - speculation. If Trump dies - then by all means, blurb an article, but at the moment he's just one of millions of people who have caught the disease. Chrisclear (talk) 18:39, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. If it leads to a far more important story, then it will be that story that we post. Black Kite (talk) 18:43, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. As all reliable sources point out, Trump was not infected a few days ago, because his illness right now is only seen in people who caught the virus more than about one week ago and whose illness takes a turn for the worse after one week. CNN now reports that Trump got supplemental oxygen on Friday. Trump's condition was kept a secret until after the closure of the Dow Jones and even then downplayed. Trump's condition effectively ends his bid to get reelected. Count Iblis (talk) 18:44, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I highly doubt your last sentence.  Nixinova   T   C   19:27, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I agree - it's far too early to predict what else will come up between now and the election. Although Biden has recently tested negative, he was exposed to Trump, and it may be that he has also caught it and has just not developed enough of a viral load to trigger a positive response. BD2412 T 23:25, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose many other countries had outbreaks in their governments. T Magierowski (talk) 18:54, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Abyssal (talk) 18:54, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support + comment It's all that's on the news right now so it makes sense that it's added. The blurb should also mention that Trump has been hospitalized, though. Alex of Canada (talk) 19:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No COVID blurbs unless/until it's over especially given the other peoples' opposes. Ultimately a political concern in the US, would support iff (God forbid) Trump or someone similarly high-ranking dies. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Other prominent political figures along with their top officials caught it earlier this year but we didn't post blurbs. I see no reason why this should be an exception.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:24, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Some of the executive branch now has covid; that's not a big deal in the scheme of things. If Trump and Pence both get this bad then I would support.  Nixinova   T   C   19:27, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Regrettably, the outbreak is by no means confined to the Executive branch -- the SCOTUS nom is exposed (if not the superspreader), judiciary Senators tested positive, hundreds of staff exposed, media exposed Feoffer (talk) 12:06, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Having a executive members alongside Trump that tested positive is unexcepted for me because how good condition of presidential ally is, making it IMO notable to posted to ITN. 180.241.205.155 (talk) 19:35, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per above. --PJ Geest (talk) 20:29, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - people don't take Covid19 seriously, catch Covid19. Not a story. Something very serious happening to the President or Vice-President, that would be a story. Mjroots (talk) 20:58, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very weak support I see the argument that we should hesitate to post any COVID-19 related blurbs for as long COVID-19 has its own section of the ITN template, but this now extends far beyond Trump himself and is widely reported international news. I don't intend to be Americentric here, I'm actually a little surprised that we didn't post when any individual world leaders were diagnosed with COVID-19, but I think those stories would have been much more notable had it been the case that numerous top officials in the British or Brazilian governments all tested positive at the same time.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 21:03, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Did my eyes deceive me or I just saw someone compare Donald J. Trump (or the executive branch of the United States federal government) to some random cop in Madrid? Really? I guess that's a better argument than "American leaders get sick all the time". Howard the Duck (talk) 21:35, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is easily the top story in the English-speaking world and is front-page news internationally. The article is in good shape and is up-to-date. This exceeds the criteria and so should be posted. Qono (talk) 21:44, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, notable and widely-covered news both nationally and internationally. Scope of story has widened beyond Trump's diagnosis in a way that meets ITN standards. Morgan695 (talk) 23:20, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose at the present; did not post when other prominent world leaders were infected (e.g. Johnson, Bolsonaro, etc.). If this leads to a transfer of power due to severe illness or other worse consequences, then worth posting at that point. SpencerT•C 02:50, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support Huge news, the argument about "we didn't post other world leaders" ignores the fact that the United States and its political leader(s) are simply much better known and more influential globally than are those of most other countries. Pretending otherwise is simply denying reality. IntoThinAir (talk) 03:26, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Is "White house" no longer part of the United States? This is completely bizarre nomination. – Ammarpad (talk) 05:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - clear USA bias if this were to be posted. — O Still Small Voice of Clam 08:06, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment as nom - If the pandemic disrupted the top echelon of any other government, we'd include it. On top of that, one candidate has been exposed by the other. I get wanting to guard against systemic bias, but this is ridiculous. Imagine if the entire leadership of, say, North Korea, had been exposed to a pandemic, with the twist of the leader being hospitalized after having exposed a rival member of the ruling elite; there is NO WAY that isn't the most newsworthy subject on the planet. Feoffer (talk) 08:34, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    This has already happened in Burundi (see 1) and we rightly covered the President's death on ITN. The US is a big country with a vast number of people responsible for its governance. It isn't a question of everyone with any political importance in the US having been incapacitated. —Brigade Piron (talk) 09:53, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on two points. First is that COVID-19 is already amply covered in the box which is already ITN and should create a very high bar for separate COVID-19 stories being featured. Second, I agree that the nomination is bizarre. Are we surprised that powerful people are also susceptible to a major pandemic? Does anything affecting the President of the US automatically constitute an event of global significance, even if its real significance is WP:CRYSTAL? Would we have posted JFK's repeated medical problems on this basis? And are we simply a newsticker for US political gossip? —Brigade Piron (talk) 09:49, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose As clearly expressed by Brigade Piron above, COVID-19 is a worldwide pandemic and many other world leaders have gotten it and subsequently recovered. The only exception to post this would be if someone unfortunately dies or if it leads to leadership changes (which would be ITNR anyway). Gotitbro (talk) 10:24, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    And this should have been a WP:SNOW close anyway, the significance comes from Trump not the White House staff or other related people for it to be considered for ITN and the Trump nom was closed just a day ago. Gotitbro (talk) 10:41, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    SCOTUS nominee & two judiciary Senators during election season is BIG deal. Feoffer (talk) 11:55, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    While the SCOTUS nomination process is affected, it does not affect the current function of SCOTUS: They will continue to run wth 8 justices (as they have in the past when down one), and the nomination process is always a process of indeterminable length depending if nominees are rejected or not. That this was trying to be rushed before the election is of partisan politics importance but this is the type of stuff we absolutely avoid using as a reason to post at ITN. --Masem (t) 15:08, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Yes it has generated acres of coverage but until the running of the US government is seriously impacted (transfer of power etc) I don't think it justifies posting. P-K3 (talk) 11:22, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    US government is seriously impacted -- Pres hospitalized, Veep and DemNom exposed, SCOTUS nom exposed. Feoffer (talk) 11:52, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Hospitalized but still running the country. And all those other three tested negative. P-K3 (talk) 12:00, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. I don't think "being exposed" really matters unless it requires the person to self-isolate for a long time, and even then, there would need to be a substantial effect from this self-isolation. If the person test's positive it may be a different matter but again, it depends on the effects of this. This has obviously had effects on the presidential election and campaigning, that much was obvious from the moment of the diagnosis. It looks like it may have had an effect on the Supreme Court nomination process, but while that may be something that matters a lot to people in the US, I'm unconvinced it's ITN worthy. After all, we AFAIK didn't and shouldn't have posted about Kavanaugh being accused of misdeeds, and AFAIK didn't and shouldn't have posted about the Senate refusing to consider Gorsuch. Perhaps the combination of Supreme Court plus elections plus other effects is enough, but I'm unconvinced at this time. I do find it funny that for all the fuss over the supreme court nomination, it's now looking likely the biggest effects of that may end up being the effects of the nomination due to this cluster and the fallout e.g. on the election etc rather than that there is another conservative on the Supreme Court for potentially decades to come, even though the latter could still happen. Nil Einne (talk) 13:01, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. It actually just doesn't feel like it's that important, or at least not yet. It's super interesting to those of us who are noting the venal idiocy of a man who turned mask wearing into a political statement and got everyone around him sick because the boss didn't like seeing them wear masks, but unless one or more people actually end up really sick, or a ton more people get diagnosed, meh. —valereee (talk) 15:35, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The above comment shows just how this all turns into a political food fight which makes us look like we have a political agenda. Lightburst (talk) 16:24, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

October 2

October 2, 2020 (2020-10-02) (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Health and environment

International relations

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Bob Gibson

Article: Bob Gibson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): WaPo
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: HOF pitcher, high quality article. Nohomersryan (talk) 03:27, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Alexander De Croo

Proposed image
Article: Alexander De Croo (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Alexander De Croo becomes Prime Minister of Belgium after almost two years without a formal government (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Alexander De Croo becomes the first elective Prime Minister of Belgium since December 2018.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Alexander De Croo becomes the first Prime Minister of Belgium after nearly two years caretaker governments.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Alexander De Croo becomes the Prime Minister of Belgium after a 16-month deadlock since the elections last year.
News source(s): The Guardian, The New York Times, Reuters
Credits:

Nominator's comments: It maybe isn't a world record but after almost two years without a formal government and within those years there were 16 months deadlock. I think it is notable, it got in the news worldwide and I've since then expanded and added citations where needed to have it in ITN. The Government did inaugurate at the 1st so I'm a little bit late to nominate but now I'm sure the media around the world grabbed its attention. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 23:55, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So Belgium has the king still in charge? I didn't know that, since I thought most countries (except Thailand of course) gave up monarchs and monarchs were only figureheads. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 02:13, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Even figurehead monarchs, like Queen Elizabeth, are still head of state, just as figurehead presidents are (the President of Israel). 331dot (talk) 02:16, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Imagine Nancy Pelosi becoming the head of state. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 02:22, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Gex4pls The PM is not head of state. 331dot (talk) 02:00, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I know they aren't technically the head of state, but you know what I mean. Gex4pls (talk) 02:15, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I know what you mean, everyone with an ounce of common sense knows what you mean, yet here we are --LaserLegs (talk) 12:48, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree with you. I recognise my poor English but I've added it to WP:GOCE and I've asked an editor who has more experiences in expanding articles in great quality so let's wait for a little bit before he copy-edit it. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 18:22, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I know your feeling; it's because he is the new PM after having nearly two years without a formal government that's why I believe it should be included. Also why does it really need work before we can post it? Is it because of the grammar quality? If so per my comment above, there will be someone who will copy-edit it until its grammar reaches a better quality. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 18:22, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @CPA-5: I'm afraid that we don't post article solely on their contemporary importance and the quality of the article needs to be taken into account too. I'm afraid grammar is only part of the issue; it really needs attention from a native English speaker. Even if this wasn't the case, there are also some very large gaps in content which would need to be resolved. —Brigade Piron (talk) 17:07, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, let's say it kinda is about him because he is the new PM after those years. But I know what you mean. There is an article called "2019–20 Belgian government formation" but it needs a lot of cite work and it doesn't mention the Brussel and both Walloon Government and the French Comunity Government (I still wonder why we have so many governments in one small country). Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 18:22, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Asda sale

(non-admin closure) no consensus to post.~ Destroyeraa🌀 15:28, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Asda (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Walmart sells UK-based supermarket chain Asda for £6.8 billion to a group of British-based investors (Post)
News source(s): https://www.livemint.com/news/world/walmart-sells-uk-supermarket-asda-for-8-7-bn-11601637899018.html
Credits:

Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: Major supermarket chain in the UK changes ownership. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 22:28, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted to Ongoing) 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh conflict

Article: 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh conflict (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
Credits:

Nominator's comments: This article may be kicked out of ITN soon, and is still clearly going on with the countries at war. Albertaont (talk) 20:47, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Lou Johnson

Article: Lou Johnson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): SI
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: He died on September 30, but the death was announced today. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:19, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Donald Trump tests positive for COVID-19

Consensus will not develop to post unless something significant happens. Stephen 06:32, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Donald Trump (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ President of the United States Donald Trump tests positive for COVID-19 (Post)
News source(s): [15]
Credits:

Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: We rejected this when Boris Johnson tested positive [16], let's see if ITN has a different view of Donald Trump testing positive. This nomination is ~15 minutes after Trump posted that tweet, so no news sources have covered this yet. It's going to be all over the news soon, however. One of the "purposes of ITN" is "To emphasize Wikipedia as a dynamic resource"; another is "To showcase quality Wikipedia content on current events". How important are these two purposes to ITN? Banedon (talk) 05:09, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Stephen's right, there's no way that flood of opposes is going to be overcome unless something happens like him becoming ill enough to have to hand over to Pence. The announcement by itself is never going to get consensus to post.-- P-K3 (talk) 12:35, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Of course there is a way, and it wasn't a flood. Those opposes were based on personal opinions and they happened before substantive coverage from the media around the world came in. If people actually bother to take a look at what the news sources say around this story and its impact, they might change their minds. Nsk92 (talk) 12:39, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

October 1

October 1, 2020 (2020-10-01) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy
  • The Tokyo Stock Exchange halts all trading for the day after it suffered one of the worst technical glitches in its history. It is undecided if it will reopen on Friday. The Nikkei 225 and TOPIX were also impacted, as they rely on the same system. (DW)
  • The Supreme Court of Ireland rules that the bread used by American restaurant franchise Subway cannot be classified as bread, due to its high sugar content. The franchise henceforth will be required to pay a 13.5% value-added tax for their bread instead of being exempted as before. (BBC News)

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections
Science and technology

(Closed) RD: Murray Schisgal

Article: Murray Schisgal (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deadline
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Not a very long article but should be sufficient for RD for now - Tony and Oscar nominated writer. Kingsif (talk) 21:17, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Zef Eisenberg

Article: Zef Eisenberg (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Count Iblis (talk) 17:49, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax [http://example.com] rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process.

For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents:

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