Talk:List of paramilitary organizations

Suggest divide

I suggest we divide them into state and non-state paramilitaries and list them. Why not make this a disambiguation page.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 00:03, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

How would that help? --A D Monroe III^(talk) 20:44, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

To editor A D Monroe III: the list is excessive as it is. It would also help the readers distinguish as well as clear WP:CLUTTER--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 20:46, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Excessive how? It's a list that's a couple pages long; if it were much shorter, we might not bother with a list at all. Splitting would hurt readers that didn't already know if what they want is state or non-state. A few orgs transitioned. (BTW, what WP:CLUTTER was applies here? It's a DAB, with nothing it points to seeming to support this.) I see zero benefit in splitting, and some down-side. --A D Monroe III^(talk) 00:35, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

To editor A D Monroe III: I don't mean splitting the article, I mean splitting the sections. I don't have too much time to discuss it right now, but I meant keeping the page intact while splitting state with non-state as well as giving defunct organizations their own separate section.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 00:46, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

American groups

See Category:United States private paramilitary groups. Doug Weller talk 18:04, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Lack of a definition, i.e. original research

Without a clear understanding of what is and what is not "paramilitary," we cannot go forward.Gendarmerie may not be paramilitary as they are usually part of the local army or Ministry of Defense. On the other hand, they have a civilian nature too. Other groups are part-time soldiers (the Canadian Rangers) who are really armed civilians with a military role. Others are auxiliaries (the Power Squadrons) that aid the military services but have no combatant role. Tell me what we mean I will be able to add to this list. ''Paul, in Saudi'' (talk) 09:11, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

• @PaulinSaudi: Well paramilitary is an organisation which is not part of the national army nor the national police and is an armed semi-militarised group but they can co-operate together and can be special forces of the government. Gendarmerie are paramilitary too, I think to fix the lack, we should divided them in two sections or split the list. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 23:15, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

• The Baltimore Police Department meets your definition. The Civil Air Patrol and the US Power Squadron does not, but both assist the military and are commonly thought of as paramilitary. I am not trying to argue, I simply do not understand what is and what is not to be listed here.''Paul, in Saudi'' (talk) 00:52, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

• I found some dictionaries which says "(of an unofficial force) organized similarly to a military force." by Oxford [1], "noting or pertaining to an organization operating as, in place of, or as a supplement to a regular military force" by Dictionary [2], "A paramilitary group is organized like an army but is not official and often not legal." and "connected with and helping the official armed forces" by Dictionary Cambridge "of, relating to, being, or characteristic of a force formed on a military pattern especially as a potential auxiliary military force" by Merriam-Webster [3], "A paramilitary organization is organized like an army and performs either civil or military functions in a country." and "A paramilitary organization is an illegal group that is organized like an army." by Collins Dictionary. With this informations, we can search for the ideal definition of paramilitary organisations is. They can be illegally which are more like rebel groups or terrorist groups. They are unofficially by the government but can help armed forces or police forces they can have military or civil functions. Which means, every organisation which is armed and act like the national army is a paramilitary organisation. Also I don't think the Baltimore Police Department in on. Yeah sure they use military ranks but they don't act like one. Instead of the Civil Air Patrol yes they are unarmed but they act like the military. They use military ranks, military uniforms, military-style programmes and even required for having physical fitness programmes. I think the United States Power Squadrons is not a paramilitary organisation because it looks more like an educational organisation. CPA-5 (talk) 10:29, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
• I appreciate your thoughts on the subject When we come to some consensus we may be able to proceed.''Paul, in Saudi'' (talk) 20:41, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
  • I don't think we can decide. We should only include those that have reliable sources calling them paramilitary. Doug Weller talk 21:50, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

• @Doug Weller: Maybe. I think It depends, most rebel or terrorist groups are paramilitary too. Most if not all sources don't say they're paramilitaries (but instead of rebels or terrorists) I think the closest thing we have to see it is a paramilitary organisation or not are the dictionaries. Of course some sources says they are paramilitary organisations like Hezbollah [4] or the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia [5] But if we really should folow the sources (which call them paramilitary) then we should delete some of them. Even they have everyting what the paramilitary definition has I think we can describe a paramilitary organisation by 1st if the source(s) describe it as one or 2de if the sources says it operate, act and train as one. Or isn't that enough? Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 23:18, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

• • @CPA-5: I don't think it is enough. What you are suggesting is in my opinion original research. You can ask at WP:NORN for another opinion. Doug Weller talk 09:25, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

• Okay, this is a major problem on this article and some armed organisations. There should have be a clean-up in those articles. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 10:05, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Should i move all the list items in the table

man the listing is bad (or i am reading wrong) should i rearrange them all? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkkingredian (talk • contribs) 16:05, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Colectivo and National Youth Service

Collectivo is not a government paramilitary organization .They are irregular, leftist Venezuelan community organizations that support Nicolás Maduro, the Bolivarian government, the Great Patriotic Pole (GPP) political alliance and the party, the United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV).

The National Youth Service was a programme of the Zimbabwean government for Zimbabweans of ages 10 to 30. It was introduced in 2000 by Border Gezi—then the Minister for Gender, Youth and Employment—and the first training camp was established at Mount Darwin in 2001.Its stated purpose was to "transform and empower youths for nation building through life skills training and leadership development."

Both of them are not government paramilitary force.

Sangheili spartan (talk) 14:21, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

RS for Colectivo being paramilitary

CNN - amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/05/24/americas/venezuela-colectivos-oppman-intl/index.html

AlJazeera - www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2019/5/9/venezuela-who-are-the-colectivos

BBC - www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-latin-america-47118139

Washington Post - https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/maduros-muscle-politically-backed-motorcycle-gangs-known-as-colectivos-are-the-enforcers-for-venezuelas-authoritarian-leader/2019/03/13/2242068c-4452-11e9-94ab-d2dda3c0df52_story.html

Etc etc

You're on slightly stronger ground with NYS but still

Cambridge - https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/africa/article/creating-a-monster-the-national-youth-service-preuniversity-training-programme-student-activism-and-the-kenyan-state-197890/36B551FCCC315DB730B53F66B8B25EE5

Manchester uni -

New York times - https://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/28/world/reports-of-rape-and-torture-inside-zimbabwean-militia.html

Etc etc

Pipsally (talk) 16:33, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/africa/article/creating-a-monster-the-national-youth-service-preuniversity-training-programme-student-activism-and-the-kenyan-state-197890/36B551FCCC315DB730B53F66B8B25EE5

It is clearly rewritten in the article that National Youth Service was a programme of the Zimbabwean government in order to make student discipline.

Collectivo get support from Maduro and his party not the government of Venezuela

Do not confuse between paramiliary force led bypolitical party and paramiliary force led by government of a country.

Take the example Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh get support from BJP who is big party in today's India.But they are not part of government institutions. they are simply branch of BJP

Please check this article

https://www.refworld.org/docid/4e4a34d32.html

Sangheili spartan (talk) 04:39, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

It is rewritten that Youth Militia is a private militia controlled by the ZANU-PF party. Sangheili spartan (talk) 04:53, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

And about Avengers of blood it is led by House of Representatives (Libya). There is no proper government in libya if you read about second libya civil war. Sangheili spartan (talk) 05:00, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Well this is very easy to deal with. A paramilitary forces doors not need to be sanctioned by the state to exist.Pipsally (talk) 07:23, 28 January 2021 (UTC)