Talk:Serbia and Montenegro

Confusion in article because of merge and not enabling later to split article in two relevant subjects

Article starts with sentence: "Serbia and Montenegro was a country in Southeast Europe, created from the two remaining republics of Yugoslavia after its breakup in 1991."

Article is based on very confusing sentences that it is laughable to anyone who knows facts about this two states. Because such thing Wikipedia is not to be taken always a reliable source and encyclopedia for readers. Federal Republic of Yugoslavia was created in 1992. There is no such a thing as state of Serbia and Montenegro after break up of Yugoslavia in 1991. Serbia and Montenegro as state was created after agreement to change constitution of Federal Republic of Yugoslavia in 2003.

And in many places in this article reader could get easily confused by order of sentences and dates given to what state content is refereed. This article is ridiculous from historical stand point. History facts get distorted in such a way by timeline and way it is presented in this article that make it bad in many ways. Readers who know nothing about this twoi states could get totally wrong impression.

Table on the right serves for what? To state that Zoran Lilić was president of Serbia and Montenegro or Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. How could reader make right conclusion to which country he was a president. And he is on the same raw with Svetozar Marovic president of Serbia and Montenegro who was not elected by voters but MP's like Zoran Lilic was.

"The new state also abandoned the collective presidency of the former SFRY and replaced it with the system consisting of a single president, who was initially appointed with the consent of the republics of Serbia and Montenegro until 1997 after which the president was democratically elected."

This makes confusion even oblivious more because it mentioned Serbia and Montenegro without explaining that they were part of Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. Were is disambiguation in this article when you need it?

In many parts of article timeline about Serbia and Montenegro precedes timeline of Federal republic of Yugoslavia and reader could not tell for sure about which state is reading. When is talked about flag in "Proposed flag and anthem" section it is more about Serbia and Montenegro when it comes to "Sports" it is more about FR Yugoslavia. When we read about transport article is talking about Serbia and Montenegro not a single word about Federal republic of Yugoslavia. Not to mention military and many differences between Armed Forces of Yugoslavia and Armed Forces of Serbia and Montenegro that cannot coexist in one single article without clear disambiguation.

For sake of few kilobytes of Wikipedia servers we have one article to describe two states and make confusion.

This article need clear disambiguation or to be split in two or more for each existing entity and some events in their respective timeline to prevent confusion for readers. Loesorion (talk) 23:21, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

The consensus is that they were the same state just under a different name (see North Macedonia and Macedonia, Timor-Leste/East Timor, or Eswatini/Swaziland). – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 23:41, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

The article has since been improved to add some clarity to the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and State Union of Serbia and Montenegro. I would personally recommend renaming the article the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia considering the name Serbia and Montenegro was only used for three years, but it isn't a major issue. You are correct in saying that Serbia and Montenegro operated differently to FR Yugoslavia. However, FR Yugoslavia itself operated differently under the Socialist Party of Serbia (1992-2000) than after the Democratic Bloc was elected (2000-2003) and final state union (2003-2006). Best to consider it one state with three different important eras. Azaan H 14:49, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

National anthem?

Did SCG have an official national anthem? My understanding is that "Hej Sloveni" was just used de facto since they could not agree on an official one. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 18:37, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

As far as I am aware Hej Sloveni was used while the state was called the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (1992-2003) but when the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro was created, it was used unofficially as an actual anthem was never agreed upon. The State Union in fact was never designed to last - its constitution promised a Montenegrin independence referendum in 2006. Azaan H 10:33, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Official name?

The constitution of 2003 uses the terms Serbia and Montenegro and State Union of Serbia and Montenegro. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 03:25, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

The state was called the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (1992-2003) and the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro (2003-2006). It was a Dominant Party Federal Republic between 1992-2000, a regular, Democratic, Federal Republic between 2000-2003, and a State Union (essential Confederacy) from 2003 until Montenegro's independence in 2006. Azaan H 14:45, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

I've seen the colloquial term New Yugoslavia in maps and in road signs like this(https://i0.wp.com/aparaskevi-images.gr/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/%CE%A4%CE%B1%CE%BC%CF%80%CE%AD%CE%BB%CE%B1-%CF%80%CE%BF%CF%85-%CE%B5%CE%B9%CF%87%CE%B5-%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%80%CE%BF%CE%B8%CE%B5%CF%84%CE%B7%CE%B8%CE%AE-%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B7%CE%BD-%CE%B5%CE%B9%CF%83%CE%BF%CE%B4%CE%BF-%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82-%CF%80%CE%BF%CE%BB%CE%B7%CF%82-copy.jpg). I do not know for how long was the colloquial term "New Yugoslavia" in use, but I guess it would have been from the late months of rump SURE to the first year or so of the FRY. I have also found instances of it in French sites, like this (https://mjp.univ-perp.fr/constit/yu.htm) and this Communique by the Foreign Ministers of then EEC(https://www.vie-publique.fr/discours/129176-communique-des-pays-de-la-cee-sur-les-affrontements-armes-entre-serbes). Any ideas? Thanmad Productions (talk) 07:49, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Government section, infobox

There is an "ongoing" edit war in the government section in the infobox and since this can't really go on I would want this to be discussed. My solution would be to leave it as "Federal republic (1992-2003) under a dominant-party system (1993-2000) and Confederal constitutional republic (2003-2006)" with Dobrica Ćosić, Slobodan Milošević and Svetozar Milošević listed as heads of the state and Milan Panić and Svetozar Marović listed as the heads of the government. Besides their names, I added a ref tag with the name of the official name of the government title that was used at the time. Alfred the Lesser/Alexiod Palaiologos has been constantly reverting my edit without explaining anything, he did not contact me and we never discussed this topic. As far as I can see his solution is "Federal republic (1992-2003) under a dominant-party state (1993-2000) and Confederate constitutional republic (2003-2006)" with Dobrica Ćosić and Svetozar Marović listed as heads of the state and Milan Panić and Svetozar Marović listed as the heads of the government but without the ref tags with the official government title names. The reason why I changed it from Confederate to Confederal is that it applies more to the term "Confederation". During the existence of FRY, Slobodan Milošević was a leading figure and even though he only served the term for three years I still think that he should be mentioned in the infobox because of numerous reasons such as the involvement in the Yugoslav Wars, politics in Yugoslavia and later Serbia and many other reasons. During the existence of this country the title "President of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia" was only used until the proclamation of the state union while the title "Prime Minister of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia" was never used, the official title was "President of the Federal Government of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia" or shortened to "President of the Federal Government" which was used until 2003. You can either add the ref tags that show the official government title name of these positions or change the "President" to "Head of state" and "Prime Minister" to "Head of government". I would especially want Alfred the Lesser to join this discussion because he is a part of it and I want this to get solved asap. Vacant0 (talk) 18:19, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

I think my version of the Government infobox looks neater. I wasn't aware I was changing the names of leaders of the country and so I apologise for that. Alfred the Lesser (talk) 08:11, 16 December 2020 (UTC)