Talk:Keith Gill

This needs to be Afd’d

Not news. Bohbye (talk) 05:55, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Agree VineFynn (talk) 06:35, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Any of you can feel free to take this article to AfD. WP:BOLD. Natg 19 (talk) 18:30, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

The subject has coverage in reliable sources. Benjamin (talk) 19:22, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/DeepFuckingValue, citing WP:BLP1E. — BarrelProof (talk) 19:33, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 2 February 2021

DeepFuckingValue → Keith Gill (investor) – The current title is simply the reddit username and isnt a nickname or monicker. Mcguy15 (talk) 20:33, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose - There is already a Keith Gill and the man became well-known under the pseudonym "DeepFuckingValue". There is a gut reaction to move the page owing to the offensive language chosen but this is not different from other persons known by their handles like PewDiePie and Jacksepticeye. UserTwoSix (talk) 21:57, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

I'm removing my vote. It seems more and more likely the media and others will move away from this name. UserTwoSix (talk) 00:47, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

That being the case, UserTwoSix, am I correct in inferring that you are supportive of the proposed move? 207.161.86.162 (talk) 01:43, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

I'm moving towards a support vote. I think there is almost always a gut reaction against changing something. So after being introduced to the name Keith Gill, it takes a little bit for it to sink in as Notable, after reading about "DeepFuckingValue" on GameStop short squeeze. UserTwoSix (talk) 02:02, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Comment I do not agree with the (investor) part. It should be (Reddit user) or (financial analyst). UserTwoSix (talk) 02:35, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

I would be opposed to Reddit user for the disambiguator as I don't think the particular internet forum the subject posted on is the most important component of his notoriety. But I quite like financial analyst, which seems to be more suitable than investor. What do other supporters of the move make of the proposal? (Pinging Mcguy15, JBchrch, and Shivertimbers433.) 207.161.86.162 (talk) 03:15, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Financial analyst sounds good to me! The previous "investor" was a bit one sided. Mcguy15 (talk) 03:50, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose per my section explaining the move; there are a good number of reasons why I think it ought to be at this title. jp×g 22:14, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose He is more well known as DFV. Nobody knows him as keith gill.Newslack (talk) 23:22, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Support changed my mind. Now that more news articles are referring to his real name, especially when he is asked to testify at congress. The title should change to Keith Gill.Newslack (talk) 05:08, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

@Newslack: Do you have any preference as to the disambiguator? Personally, I'm leaning towards Keith Gill (financial analyst) (as proposed by UserTwoSix above). 207.161.86.162 (talk) 05:21, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

I think (financial analyst) is better too. (reddit user) makes the article look not as notable.Newslack (talk) 05:27, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

• Support. "The name used most often to refer to a person in reliable sources is generally the one that should be used as the article title" (WP:NICKNAME). The NYTimes, Bloomberg, the Wall Street Journal and Reuteurs introduce him as "Roaring Kitty". So if anything, this article should be titled Roaring Kitty.--JBchrch (talk) 12:26, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

On that count, I think this article is a bit of an unusual case, as the current title is somewhat unprintable for many newspapers. Therefore, other factors may need to be taken into account, as unlike the press, Wikipedia is not censored. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 12:33, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

This is a reasonable argument, but I would argue that we need to defer to reliable sources. If no newspaper ever reprints "DeepFuckingValue", this nickname may become obsolete at some point anyway.--JBchrch (talk) 12:50, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

I think I have effectively addressed this concern in my comment below. 207.161.86.162 (talk) 02:02, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

• Support, most RSes like NYT and WSJ refer to him primarily by his real name. -Shivertimbers433 (talk) 00:19, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
• Support – JBchrch is right to point out that reliable sources more often introduce the subject as either Roaring Kitty or Keith Gill. Typically we should default to the subject's "real" name unless we can establish that a pseudonym or nickname is most commonly used in reliable sources, which is clearly not the case here. (While not an excellent survey of reliable sources by any means, we can also see that "Keith Gill" Gamestop has more than twice as many Google hits as "DeepFuckingValue" Gamestop.)

The idea that DeepFuckingValue is too profane to be the article title is, of course, without merit; Wikipedia is not censored. However, the argument raised by AllegedlyHuman that we should disregard the common usage by a majority of reliable sources on the basis that these sources are "censored" is unconvincing. Any number of social factors can influence popular usage of a given term. It is not our place to assess the merits of these considerations (even if they include an aversion to obscenity). Our role is to assess what the common usage is in reliable sources.

While the rationale provided by the nominator for this proposed move is weak, reliable sources show that DeepFuckingValue is simply not the subject's common name. Therefore, the article should be titled using the subject's "real" name in this instance. Investor appears to be the appropriate disambiguator here, but if there are objections, I am open to considering other options. 207.161.86.162 (talk) 01:41, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

• Strong support, per COMMONNAME. This story is moving from the pseuds of Reddit deep into the real world, with Gill being asked to testify in Congress, and his real name mentioned in the most recent news articles (such as the NYT's [1]) like any other newsworthy person's name, with his pseud given second billing along with "Storming Kitty." There isn't enough pertinence to "DeepFuckingValue" (technically, "u/DeepFuckingValue") anymore to have it be the article title, as tempting as it may be to name the article that. Moncrief (talk) 05:27, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Do you have any preference as to the disambiguator, Moncrief? Personally, I'm leaning towards Keith Gill (financial analyst) (as proposed by UserTwoSix above). 207.161.86.162 (talk) 05:39, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

I don't have particularly strong feelings, but I prefer the RM suggestion of Keith Gill (investor). He's famous for being an investor. He did not become well known during his career as a financial analyst; evidently he gave his notice on January 21st. Moncrief (talk) 06:12, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

I would second your stance on this, investor fits better and avoids a bias issue of either implying hes a financial mastermind or implying he isn't meriting of any status whatsoever except as just a guy. As is we can anticipate a massive amount of biased edits and commentary due to the polarized nature of the GME Short Squeeze, anything at all that minimizes this in the long run is overall a net positive in my eyes.Jyggalypuff (talk) 06:21, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

• Support At a minimum it should be his name AKA "DeepFuckingValue" in the introduction which would flow smoother and allow avoidance of the inevitable back and forth for the next year over it. In addition, with credible news reporting that he may be asked to testify in front of congress, which would be testimony recorded under his name, as opposed to "DeepFuckingValue", he will become more noteworthy as an individual rather than by his alias. Jyggalypuff (talk) 06:08, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Article title

I have moved the article back to the title DeepFuckingValue, from Keith Gill (investor). My reasoning for doing so is thus:

• Pseudonymous posters often have articles under their pseudonyms, especially when the actions for which they're notable are entirely done under those pseudonyms; see dril, Horse_ebooks, da share z0ne, Topiary, weev, etc. Other people, like Christopher Poole, have pursued a number of other ventures under their IRL names, and have IRL-name articles.
• DFV is notable primarily for his Reddit posts, and to a lesser extent his YouTube posts. While he has talked to newspapers who ran articles with his real name in them, he is not notable merely for the fact that he had conversations with reporters (or else every newspaper reporter would have an article about them).
  • Specifically, Keith Gill did not make the Reddit posts. If you look at the posts (which are linked to from the article), you can see they were posted by u/DeepFuckingValue. Similarly, Marilyn Monroe is notable for having appeared in many films, whereas Norma Jean Mortenson is not.
• Articles which are primarily about his Reddit posts typically do not mention his name in the headline, seeing as it contains the word "fuck".
• Most articles I see mention him as DeepFuckingValue and not Keith Gill, to wit: the ones in The Ringer, Axios, the Guardian. Even among the articles that mention his real name, The Verge mentions "DeepFuckingValue" first and only introduces his IRL name afterwards.

I realize that there is a strong aversion to using profanity in the name of an article, and an even stronger aversion to doing things that are "unencyclopedic" -- but we are dealing here with an event that is fundamentally encyclopedic. jp×g 22:13, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

The problem with your argument is that most reliable sources (see WP:PSEUDONYM) call him "Roaring Kitty", including the NYTimes, Bloomberg, the Wall Street Journal and Reuteurs.--JBchrch (talk) 12:26, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

As I noted in the section above, I believe the reason for them doing this is exactly to avoid using profanity. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 12:34, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

origin and meaning of pseudonym DFV

https://old.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/eoaua4/gamestop_2019_holiday_sales_down_275_yoy/fecbdv2/ , Jan 14 2020, r/wallstreetbets :

" I’ve dealt in deep value stocks for years but have never endured bearish sentiment this heavy.

...

Yea there’s deep value, then there’s deep fucking value."

73.89.25.252 (talk) 03:13, 4 February 2021 (UTC)