Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Swagsevo

Swagsevo

Swagsevo (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · spi block · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)

Populated account categories: confirmed

For archived investigations, see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Swagsevo/Archive.

01 March 2021

– A user has requested CheckUser. An SPI clerk will shortly look at the case and endorse or decline the request.

Suspected sockpuppets

• Lilipo25 (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · spi block · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• Rad Fem Ish (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · spi block · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• MandyMB (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · spi block · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• The Queen of Cups V (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · spi block · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)

• Tools: Editor interaction utility • Interaction Timeline • User compare report Auto-generated every hour.

This investigation was intended to be filed at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Lilipo25, which currently redirects to this page (Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Swagsevo).

At Special:Diff/1009515492, Lilipo25 commented at User talk:The Queen of Cups V: "Hi, I hope you don't mind, but I formatted your vote on the Reliable Sources page (put an asterisk in front of it and bolded "reliable") to bring it in line with the rest of the votes and just wanted to let you know."

After Lilipo25 modified The Queen of Cups V's comment at Special:Diff/1009515098, Rad Fem Ish performed a similar violation of the talk page guidelines with another one of The Queen of Cups V's comments in the same discussion at Special:Diff/1009546173.

Rad Fem Ish is an account that has, so far (aside from creating a user page), exclusively edited on Talk:Equality Act (United States) and Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard § Lesbian and Gay News to add comments echoing Lilipo25's positions in the discussions on these pages. — Newslinger talk 05:43, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Adding recently created account that fits a similar pattern:

• MandyMB (talk · contribs) – Created on 19 February 2021, 4 edits total, 2 edits on Talk:Equality Act (United States), 1 edit in Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard § Lesbian and Gay News

— Newslinger talk 06:46, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

There is indeed a track record of off-wiki canvassing in this topic area. The PinkNews (RSP entry) RfC in July 2020 was subject to off-wiki canvassing on Twitter, as documented in Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 305 § Off-site canvassing – see the Wayback Machine archive links of the tweets by @feministbirther and @lil_p12345 at the bottom. — Newslinger talk 08:07, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

The archived tweets (linked from the PinkNews RfC) include:

Lil P.

@lil_p12345

They opened an RFC (Request for Comments) and it expires in 3 days. TRA editors are bullying everyone else down & it's looking they are going to reinstate Pink News as a reliable Wikipedia source unless more people get in there and voice an opinion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#PinkNews

28 Jul 2020

Lil P.

@lil_p12345

This is correct. It's why we need more radfems in there editing. The TRAs have a ton of people doing it and they work as a bloc to keep articles biased against women and their allies.

There is a need for comments on PinkNews as a reliable source here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#PinkNews

28 Jul 2020

References

This particular Twitter account was deleted or renamed, and the tweets were deleted, after the canvassing was reported. — Newslinger talk 08:21, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

@Lilipo25: I am including this information because meatpuppetry is prohibited under the policy against sockpuppetry. I had received a report via email (dated 30 July 2020) on off-wiki canvassing related to the above tweets with regard to the PinkNews RfC; this report is also relevant to the current sockpuppet investigation. I am able to forward this email report to any administrator investigating this case, although I would need to ask the reporter for permission beforehand. — Newslinger talk 08:30, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

@Lilipo25: The editor sent me the report in confidence, so I will not be revealing their identity or the contents of the email in public. I will forward it to any investigating administrators, after requesting permission from the editor. — Newslinger talk 08:53, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

@Lilipo25: I am unable to share on-wiki the parts of the report that contain information about Wikipedia editors that have not been disclosed on-wiki. However, the policy on the posting of personal information states: "Nothing in this policy prohibits the emailing of personal information about editors to individual administrators, functionaries, or arbitrators, or to the Wikimedia Foundation, when doing so is necessary to report violations of confidentiality-sensitive policies (such as conflict of interest or paid editing, harassment, or violations of the child-protection policy)." — Newslinger talk 09:08, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

@Lilipo25: Off-wiki canvassing (meatpuppetry) would also be a violation of a confidentially-sensitive policy. — Newslinger talk 09:49, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Comments by other users

Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Well, this seems extreme, but knock yourself out. If you'd like any extra permissions to check my IP addresses or anything else that aren't covered under the usual allowances, just ask and I will happily grant them. I've never had a sockpuppet account on Wikipedia and I don't now. Lilipo25 is the one and only account I have ever had here. This is actually my second time being accused by someone right after they disagreed with my opinions, but I assure you that there is nothing to find.

I saw that Rad Fem Ish hadn't formatted their reply correctly (didn't put the asterisk in front of it or bold the word "reliable") so I did it for them and notified them. Someone kindly did the same for me when I used the Reliable Sources board for the first time and I appreciated it; the formatting on Wikipedia can be complicated. It would never have occurred to me that an admin would take that to mean they were my sockpuppet. My sincere apologies to Rad Fem Ish for causing them this trouble with what was meant as a helpful gesture. Lilipo25 (talk) 06:13, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Now that Newslinger has added Mandy, I apologise to them, too. I would guess that accusing anyone who disagrees with the opinion that Gay and Lesbian News is a hate site of being my sockpuppet will discourage some people from voicing that view on the Reliable Sources board. All I can do is apologize to those who do, and reiterate that I will happily grant this investigation any power it is in my authority to grant that might help them check out this claim, or any other that Newslinger adds. (I don't suppose I'll be getting an apology when all of this turns out to be false?). Lilipo25 (talk) 06:53, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

• I think that these are more likely to be meatpuppets than sockpuppets. Mixed in with the brand new accounts in the RSN discussion are dormant accounts with prior activity going back several years. More likely in my opinion that these are simply newly registered editors who have been canvassed to this discussion from somewhere offsite, likely a "gender critical" forum. Hemiauchenia (talk) 07:22, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

• • I've seen bullying of accounts with a gender critical viewpoint on the reliable sources board before, but this is OTT.
  • For the record, I have not canvassed anyone, either. There has been a lot of talk on several feminist boards in the last few weeks (because of the upcoming annual Art and Feminist Edit-a-thon, which takes place in less than one week) about the extreme bias against radical feminist views and organizations on Wikipedia. This is due to several recent articles, and one in particular, clearly being edited by groups of editors with an intense dislike toward the viewpoints of radical feminism. But I have not seen any feminist on any site suggest or direct anyone to edit particular articles. And the one that everyone objects to doesn't appear to have been altered in some time and remains heavily biased, so it seems unlikely that anyone signed up just to change it.
  • On the contrary, almost every opinion I've seen offered - including a number of past WP editors - has been in agreement that women shouldn't bother trying to edit Wikipedia because they'll just be bullied and deleted, so it's a complete waste of time. Lilipo25 (talk) 07:59, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
    • I've not said that you in particular are responsible, but it seems pretty unlikely that a significant number of brand new and infrequently active accounts would make their appearance in one place to push the same view without them being directed there. Has the RSN discussion and the Equality Act (United States) article been specifically mentioned? I checked Twitter, Ovarit and Glindr (the usual "gender critical" haunts) and found precisely nothing. Hemiauchenia (talk) 08:07, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
      • I've seen the Equality Act page mentioned as being biased once. Not the RSN discussion, or at least not recently or in relation to this publication. I did see it mentioned when Pink News was up in RS last year. Neither of these pages is the one that the majority of people were bothered by. I am not on every single feminist board on the internet (I am on three prominent ones, however) and I can't guarantee that I would have seen every post that's been made on Wikipedia's bias. Lilipo25 (talk) 08:15, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
        • @Lilipo25: Could you link to the specific discussion where the "Equality Act" was described as biased? Hemiauchenia (talk) 08:23, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
          • No, I absolutely cannot, nor would I ever agree to do that. What is discussed on feminist boards - and not all of the boards are open to be viewed by anyone anyway; some are private Facebook groups - are discussions among women on topics that affect us. It's one thing to say in general terms that something has been discussed. It's something else entirely to provide a public link to individual women's comments, without their consent. Feminists are routinely subjected to doxxing and even rape and death threats from people who dislike their views. There is zero chance I would ever consent to open other women up to that possibility, no matter what I am accused of. Lilipo25 (talk) 08:32, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Why is Newslinger now posting off-site canvassing from a Pink News discussion last year as evidence that I have sockpuppet accounts or have done something wrong? If Newslinger has some evidence that I was involved in that canvassing, I would very much like to see it. This is more irrelevant piling on to attack me for having a particular feminist viewpoint that an admin doesn't like, and it's not appropriate. Kindly conduct your investigation and clear my name. Lilipo25 (talk) 08:20, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

• I assume Newslinger is posting that twitter account because the user name looks similar to my Wikipedia one (Lil P12345). I can't account for that. I don't even know if it's a real account or something someone set up specifically in an effort to cause problems. I have a twitter account that has been active since 2007 and it is the only one I have. It does not share a user name with my Wikipedia account, and I would never be stupid enough to use a similar name on two different platforms, knowing how easy that is to track.
• I am feeling very targeted by Newslinger, who right after replying to the Reliable Sources page that mentioned my saying the Lesbian and Gay News was reliable this morning to strongly disagree with that viewpoint, sent me a notice that I have expressed interest in a topic that is under discretionary sanctions, and within hours had filed this report against me alleging sockpuppetry and is now alleging meatpuppetry last year. I recognize that Newslinger is an admin with a great deal more power than I have, but I do wish a disinterested party would conduct an investigation and put a stop to this. Lilipo25 (talk) 08:41, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
  • Newslinger, if you are in fact in possession of a "report" that has information about me, personally, that is relevant to this investigation, I should very much like to know both who wrote it and to read it. That is an extremely disturbing thing to hear, particularly as I do not recall ever interacting with you before today and can't imagine why someone was sending you or anyone else reports about me.Lilipo25 (talk) 08:50, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
    • You are telling me that someone wrote a "report" about me that they sent to Wikipedia admins with whom I had never had any contact "in confidence" nearly a year ago, and that you are now offering to send to any other admin who wants it, but I can't know who wrote it or what it says? And this is acceptable under Wikipedia rules for admins to do - share outside 'reports' about editors without letting the editors know about them or defend themselves against what might be in them? Or even know if they contain personal information about them? That is openly threatening and frightening. Lilipo25 (talk) 08:58, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
    • I have no conflict of interest, I am not "harassing" anyone by disagreeing with your POV that Lesbian and Gay News is unreliable, no one has ever offered to pay me for editing Wikipedia and I am certainly not a danger to children nor have I done anything to give the impression I am. So I wouldn't appear to be covered by that rule. Your threats here to reveal personal information about me to "any admin who wants it", without even telling me what it says or who has compiled it, is the most frightening bullying I've ever encountered here. Have you ever made this threat to anyone else editing Wikipedia whose opinions you disagreed with? It feels very much like a threat intended to get me to quit editing altogether. Lilipo25 (talk) 09:20, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

This may be part of the meatpuppetry. People have used the replies to LGB Alliance tweets to advocate for agenda editing eg this. Also possibly this or a similar place may be where they're coming from. Urve (talk) 09:03, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Also the since-deleted tweet that spawned this thread; based on replies, seems like a good match. Urve (talk) 09:16, 1 March 2021 (UTC) Additional reply here. Probably more, many deleted. Urve (talk) 09:23, 1 March 2021 (UTC) Also. So idk. Urve (talk) 09:44, 1 March 2021 (UTC) Also eg although this is old. Looks more like a coordinated effort by the OP to that thread, that has since deleted their tweets, than socking. Urve (talk) 09:48, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

• None of these twitter accounts are mine and they are not relevant to a sockpuppetry claim against me which has now just become a pile-on from everyone who disagrees with my views on the the Lesbian and Gay News. Having said that, those don't look like meatpuppetry to me. They are tweets urging feminists to get involved with Wikipedia due to its bias. They don't tell anyone to go edit any particular articles. Wikipedia does need more women editors and more feminist ones, too (but this page has made me understand better than any other during my time here why nearly every one has quit trying). Lilipo25 (talk) 09:12, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Those with discerning eyes will notice I never said that nor even referenced you. Urve (talk) 09:16, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

You posted it in a sockpuppet investigation of me! Lilipo25 (talk) 09:29, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

• • OK, you all win. I now have two very anti-feminist admins making it clear that they are targeting me and this isn't going to get any better. I lasted two years as a WIkipedia editor and that's far better than most women, and certainly better than most feminists, do. But I'm being threatened with sinister secret "reports" with "personal information" about me and no one will tell me what is in them or who wrote them, but they're being offered to be passed around, and that's just sick.
  • So I will quit and you have won and chased one of the last feminist editors off Wikipedia. I will not, however, leave before this SPI is completed. I want my name cleared first. So use whatever admin influence you have to get SPI cracking if you want me gone. I didn't do anything wrong and I won't leave until that's made clear. Lilipo25 (talk) 09:38, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

• Lilipo25 A strange thing to say, since I specifically said below that I *didn't* think this was sockpuppetry, but meatpuppetry. Oh, and calling me anti-feminist is a personal attack, and since you know nothing about me whatsoever, one that is so ridiculously untrue as to be laughable. Feel free to redact that at your convenience. Black Kite (talk) 09:47, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

• I have been told on this page that meatpuppetry comes under sockpuppetry, so I assume that is also being investigated here. As for my statement about your views, I have only run into you in ANIs where you have made comments agreeing with those calling radical feminists "TERFs" and other statements which showed a strong bias against radical feminists and their views. But you needn't worry about any 'personal attacks', I will happily retract since I'm leaving anyway once this SPI is over. Being threatened with "personal information" about me - when I am not even allowed to know what it is or who compiled it - being passed around is flat-out sinister and sick, and more than I can take. Lilipo25 (talk) 09:56, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

• Trans-exclusionary radical feminists are a very small subset of feminists, as you very well know. But where is this "personal information" idea - I can't see it? Forgive me if I'm being dense. Black Kite (talk) 10:05, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

• Cute (both the spelling out of the slur and the statement that doesn't justify open bias against a group of feminists in any way). [1] Lilipo25 (talk) 10:16, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

• I am involved in the RSN thread so won't say much, except that this looks more like meatpuppetry and/or off-wiki canvassing to me, however there are a couple of quirks in the short editing histories of two of the accounts which make me think a checkuser might be useful - I can provide those privately if required. Data: User:Rad Fem Ish - created 21 Feb, first edit 25 Feb to Equality Act article, then Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. User:MandyMB - created 19 Feb, first edit 26 Feb to Equality Act, then RSN. User:The Queen of Cups V - created in 2019, 2 edits in that year, first edit since then was on 26 Feb to a couple of other articles before heading for RSN. Interesting that they have found their way to RSN since the page is obscure for new accounts and isn't actually linked from the Equality Act talkpage either. Black Kite (talk) 09:19, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

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