Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Noogenesis

Noogenesis

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Noogenesis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Compare with Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Noometry. This article is being promoted by an account that seems attracted to the ideas of Alexei Eryomin among other devotees of ideas relating to noosphere. Much of this material was ported over from the previously deleted noometry article. Superficially, a lot of the references seem to be cherry-picked for identifying use of the term, but there is essentially no third-party notice of this as a concept independent of, say, the normal philosophical approach of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. This article, then, is serving as a rather dramatic example of WP:SYNTH, WP:POVPUSH, WP:SOAP, and WP:NEO among others. It needs to be deleted as attempted redirects to, for example, noosphere is reverted by the article creator. jps (talk) 23:16, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Philosophy-related deletion discussions. jps (talk) 23:16, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions. jps (talk) 23:16, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Psychology-related deletion discussions. jps (talk) 23:16, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Social science-related deletion discussions. jps (talk) 23:16, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

• Delete per the nomination. Synthesis of new woolly ideas with old woolly ideas. XOR'easter (talk) 23:28, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
• Comment: See related Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Information ecology and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alexei Eryomin. jps (talk) 23:44, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
• Delete. It claims that "Noogenesis is the emergence and evolution of intelligence". This is referenced to four dictionaries that... Lets just say that they are not among the usual major dictionaries that we would typically use to prove that a word exists. Furthermore, if this was true then this should be covered in the existing articles on intelligence and related subjects. It is not. The alleged creators of this theory(?) have biographical articles. One might expect it to be covered there. It is not. It seems to have been added to quite a lot of "See also" sections though. So this is... What? A neologism? A non-notable fringe theory? A POVFORK? A hoax? Who knows exactly? The one thing I'm pretty sure of is that it is not an encyclopaedic subject and that this article, and any walled garden of similar related articles, about this non-topic should be deleted. --DanielRigal (talk) 23:44, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
• Delete. Lacks RS. Xxanthippe (talk) 23:46, 4 March 2021 (UTC).
• Comment The current article appears to have incorporated a lot of Eryomin material that is difficult to find elsewhere. On the other hand, the topic is mentioned in relation to views on evolution (including some pseudoscientific) and in the context of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin in some encyclopedias (see: [1], [2]). An older version of the article was this and also mentioned de Chardin but not Eryomin. Considering that we already have an article about de Chardin but that it has no content on noogenesis, a possible solution would be merging some minimal content there... —PaleoNeonate – 08:19, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
• Keep.
• Comment: The phenomenon has been researched for 150 years. Pierre Teilhard de Chardin (1955) - not the first to use the term, in 1871 Hugh Doherty was first mentioned "noogenesis". "Noogenesis and Theory of Intellect" (2005) is mentioned in secondary sources, cited >150 times [3]. The article "Noogenesis" in the encyclopedia is in demand - in 5 years ~130,000 readings [4]. The concept of "Noogenesis" is common in the academic scientific environment - GoogleAcademic provides >900 links to authoritative sources [5]. The term "Noogenesis" is used in many books - Google books [6]. ירמיהו - פרוגנוזה (talk) 08:25, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
• Keep this looks more like WP:TNT and reverted to this version since the subject itself is probably noteable even though somewhat esoteric, but this article seems to be heavily influenced by one author and should be rewritten by someone knowledgeable. There are 926 mentions in google scholar. --hroest 21:56, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
  • It's a thought, but I note that the version you suggest has a tag that proposes merging to Pierre Teilhard de Chardin which makes sense considering that's the only notable use of the term that I can find and the other stages of "genesis" that he lists have uses and considerations that extend far beyond his philosophical jaunts. I submit that we can adequately cover what is meant by this term and how it was used by Teilard de Chardin at his biography. I have no objection to a redirect. jps (talk) 18:07, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
• Comment: Indeed ירמיהו - פרוגנוזה and it is for this reason that the Noogenesis deserves to be on Wikipedia -Vincent Blais (talk) 22:16, 5 March 2021 (UTC) — Vincent Blais (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
• Merge, or revert to previous version. Whatever one may think about the validity of the concept, there's a notable topic here that pops up in Teilhardinism and not a few later works. But the current state of the article is not defensible - lots of synthesis, sprawling excursions, preaching without qualifying, and at times pretty much descending into gibberish. The old version linked above is actually a better article than that, if a few refs were ported over. Another option would be a partial merge to Noosphere, where it could be put in context at some length. Merging to Pierre Teilhard de Chardin would require condensing it down to a paragraph or so, I think - also an option but a lot more restrictive. --Elmidae (talk · contribs)
• Comment 1. The emergence and evolution of intelligence ("noogenesis") (published in 1871, which appeared in Google books) is associated in time, ideology quantitative and qualitative evidence with the origin of species differences and evolution according to Darwin (1859). And this was 50-100 years earlier than the hypothetical themes of the "noosphere" from Vernadsky and Chardin (1955). 2. "The appearance of life - abiogenesis" - is not disputed. Why is "the emergence of intelligence - noogenesis" and its modern biological and neuroscience component questioned? Moreover, according to the Encyclopædia Britannica: "the appearance of nervous systems and thinking" refers to two of the five emergences of fundamentally new forms in evolution [7]. 3. Modern science has not stood still for 150 years, but only by 2015 the number of neurons and synapses in the brain was calculated. Noophelia 2.0 (talk) 11:28, 7 March 2021 (UTC)