Talk:Murder of George Floyd

Semi-protected edit request on 9 March 2021

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This entry doesn't put forth any evidence of the Floyd death. Calling it a murder after ample evidence from the coroner states that he had extremely high amounts of fentanyl in his system is wrong and misleading. This is an entirely opinionated piece and should be fact checked and researched before this information is wrongly pushed onto the public that uses your platform. 2603:7080:D40:241:E949:25A9:3D11:39D9 (talk) 01:25, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: Nowhere does this article call the killing a "murder". It states that the officers are facing murder charges. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:35, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move page

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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George Floyd was a victim of first degree murder. He was not killed, but murdered. For this reason I think we should change the article's title to "Murder of George Floyd". Kuro・(Kuro's talk page) 04:24, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Nobody's even charged with first degree murder, nor convicted on the existing murder charge. For WP:BLPCRIME reasons, you're too soon. Wait and see, might make sense later. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:29, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Chauvin's pre-trial section needs chronological ordering

October currently precedes August, so motions seem to be dismissed before they're made. I can't copy and paste. Should be easy for anyone who can. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:07, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

George Floyd wasn't killed

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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He had a fatal level of fentanyl in his system.

He claimed he "couldn't breathe" WELL BEFORE police restrained him on the ground. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.227.215.190 (talk) 10:56, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

You are hardly the first to bring this up- so think about why the article might say what it says. This is because Wikipedia summarizes what independent reliable sources state, not our own personal interpretations. Most RS agree that he was "killed"- the means is open to debate as is any legal responsibility. That's what the trial is for. 331dot (talk) 11:01, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

I would also urge you to review the frequently asked questions at the top of this page. 331dot (talk) 11:02, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

So he is still alive?Slatersteven (talk) 11:09, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Slatersteven There are conspiracy theories that claim the video is just that-a video- and that no one actually died. 331dot (talk) 11:43, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Maybe, but I will judge the users suggestion on what they ask, and present to support it.Slatersteven (talk) 11:47, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Barring any presentation of reliable sources, this should be archived as WP:NOTFORUM.—Bagumba (talk) 11:10, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

$27M settlement

Does the $27M settlement [1] mean that the criminal charges will be dropped & the family/estate will not pursue the criminal case? --2601:C4:C300:1BD0:6895:4282:F93E:64E5 (talk) 22:03, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

I mention this because there are numerous precedents where criminal cases are withdrawn when the plantiff accept enormous settlement funds. $27 is the highest settlement sum I've heard of and believe since it is being reported by Reuters. [2]

1993_child_sexual_abuse_accusations_against_Michael_Jackson#Settlement is an example of a withdrawn criminal case.--2601:C4:C300:1BD0:6895:4282:F93E:64E5 (talk) 22:16, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Jackson was facing a civil case which could be withdrawn. Chauvin is charged under criminal law, brought by the authorities. A financial settlement has no bearing on criminal charges. WWGB (talk) 23:36, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Jackson was also facing a criminal case. The accuser declined to cooperate after the financial settlement.--2601:C4:C300:1BD0:6895:4282:F93E:64E5 (talk) 23:46, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Facing charges, but never charged. Chauvin has been charged. Big difference. WWGB (talk) 23:55, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Most civil settlements stipulate that the plaintiffs take back their criminal complaint. The estate of Breonna Taylor and lawyers (Benjamin Crump) accepted $12 million in exchange for agreeing not to hold the local city police criminally liable.--2601:C4:C300:1BD0:6895:4282:F93E:64E5 (talk) 00:15, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

The Attorney General of Minnesota is handling the prosecution, not the family. An out-of-court settlement can entail virtually anything both parties negotiate. But paying off a prosecutor in criminal court is bribery (even attempting it is illegal). InedibleHulk (talk) 00:58, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Also, when you're dealing with a private (alleged) molestation, there usually are no crowds or cameras. One uncooperative witness can (and often does) sink a case. Here, dozens watched live and millions saw parts at home, many state witnesses with no part of that money would go on without the family now, if needed. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:20, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Third degree murder

The dropped charge came back, seems pretty important, but I can't copy URLs and won't memorize them. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:50, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Device limitation?—Bagumba (talk) 01:24, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Yep. I could dust my laptop off. But it seems a lot for two edits (counting my unanswered request above). InedibleHulk (talk) 01:31, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

InedibleHulk: Old device? Cuz IOS and Android generally supports it.—Bagumba (talk) 08:43, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

I got the ball rolling in Chauvin's Pre-trial section, citation needed. They're out there! The lead, infobox, State charges section and whatever else will have to wait. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:07, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Tendentious article

I'm surprised Wikipedia accepts articles so prejudicial to the findings of a court. It should be said more prominently that Floyd had taken an overdose of fentanyl, and had a weak heart. It should include, moreover, that according to the NHS web site: “It is possible to have a serious allergic reaction (anaphylaxis) to fentanyl. Anaphylaxis usually develops suddenly and gets worse very quickly. The symptoms include: breathing difficulties... a fast heartbeat, confusion, anxiety and collapsing or losing consciousness.” https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/anaphylaxis/ Geordie2 (talk) 11:31, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Or we wait until the court decides what its findings are (which are not going to be based upon what we say), and read wp:or and wp:synthesis (and actually reading what wp:tenditious means might be a good idea).Slatersteven (talk) 11:53, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

REPLY: Waiting until the court decides before titling article thus would indeed be better. Tenditious? Never heard of it. What does it mean?

"@Geordie2: We don't include things that "could" be, like anaphylaxis. We report on what reliable sources say. And the sources say the medical examiners ruled the death a homicide. Please see the FAQ at the top of this page. EvergreenFir (talk) 22:00, 15 March 2021 (UTC) REPLY: Medical examiners rule? News to me they do that. Also, I read the results of the examination commissioned by the family were never published. If true, that might also be said.

Ruled as in found.Slatersteven (talk) 08:59, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

If true, that might also be said.: Feel free to provide specific sources that support your proposed addition.—Bagumba (talk) 09:05, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Discovery of fentanyl/methamphetamine in both vehicles; some chewed and with Floyd's DNA on them

Minnemeeples has reverted my edit with information about drugs found in the car Floyd was driving and the squad car he was briefly put in, asking me to explain the "relevance" (rather than articulating any objection). I should think it's obvious: AP and the other cited RS explain the relevance, pointing out that defense attorneys for the men charged in Floyd's death have argued and will argue that Floyd's drug use, including allegedly swallowing pills at the time of his arrest, caused or contributed to his death. Specifically, they note:

• Chauvin's defense attorney has noted that "fragments of a pill with Floyd’s DNA on it were found in the back of the squad car. The fragments contained methamphetamine and fentanyl…"
• The ME listed "heart disease, fentanyl intoxication, recent methamphetamine use and Floyd’s bout with the coronavirus as other 'significant conditions'" at the time of Floyd's death.
• The drugs speak to "the critical question of how much the high-profile trial will revolve around Floyd’s own actions on May 25"—and while the trial isn't the subject of this article, Floyd's actions obviously are.

Police officers have testified that a man who died, with fentanyl and meth contributing to that death had just swallowed white pills… then white fentanyl-and-meth pills were found in both cars he was in, some chewed and with his DNA. How could that not be relevant to our article about the events of and his actions on that day? If the (patently absurd) claim that Floyd was "calm" is deemed "relevant"—then surely the fact that half-chewed drugs with his DNA were in the car is, too? The real question is whether there's any conceivable reason our article shouldn't include the actual (and in this case undisputed) facts of the event, as reported by AP and other RS? Elle Kpyros (talk) 03:08, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the discussion. I noted an objection in the edit summary, but did not adequately articulate it. Let me explain more.

What was discovered in the car in December 2020 should not be presented in the events of May 25, 2020, in my opinion. There were two searches of the car. The pills were recovered in the December 2020 search (as reported in this article). Perhaps that is better suited in a subsection under the investigation?

I would not argue to keep the "calm"/"thank you" sentence, which is based on the prosecution filing, and is either an interpretation of the situation, or a quote of Floyd. One source says he said the word, "calm," while the other source describes Floyd demeanor as calm. It is also not clear at what point he was calm and for how long. The whole context of "thank you" is also weirdly presented in sources.

There should be caution about synthesizing arguments in court on March 16, 2021, by Eric Nelson, Chauvin's attorney, about the events of May 25, 2020, even if Nelson's arguments were reported by multiple, reliable secondary sources. And there should be caution in selectively citing the Washington Post source, which largely refutes the overdose argument. Minnemeeples (talk) 04:14, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Definitely misleading (regardless of intent) in "Initial events". Words like "later" or "subsequently" still suggest it happened before the next paragraph, since everything else is chronological. Searching vehicles and collecting samples seems like "Minneapolis police response" to me. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:47, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

We already know he took the drug, what new does this add?Slatersteven (talk) 09:01, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

I very much appreciate the thoughtful discussion! In response:

• I don't believe it's WP:SYNTH—it's clearly mentioned in the articles as being relevant to the story of Floyd's death that day.
• Yes, there is already a presumption Floyd took the two drugs, since they were found in his bloodstream—but prior use is a bit different from what the police allege, which is that he swallowed at least some of them in the minutes before he died (allegedly echoing his actions in the 2019 arrest).
• I don't see how the fact that the drugs were discovered later means they shouldn't be included in a timeline of events of that day—much of what has been learned about that day has come from subsequent investigation, including video, autopsies, etc. What's the substantive difference between downloading video from Cup foods and searching the cars? What if the Cup Foods footage had only been discovered six months later? Or if the pills had turned up hours after, rather than months? That said, I have not the slightest objection to adding the dates of the searches.
• In terms of "selectively quoting" The Washington Post—I could hardly quote the whole article, so of course I selected that part which informed my response to the issue of relevance. I wasn't claiming Floyd "overdosed"—I simply included the fact that the ME reported the drugs in Floyd's system contributed to his death, which seems to me a factually true and uncontroversial statement.
• This seems like new information—as far as I'm aware, only one of the searches was widely reported upon before—and I assume more will be revealed. I'm certainly not opposed to putting it under an "Investigation" section—which could also include the alleged similarities with Floyd's 2019 arrest. (That arrest is currently relegated to the Geroge Floyd article, which seems odd, as it's not so much relevant to his biography as a hip-hop artist, but to his 2020 arrest and death and its subsequent litigation.)
• A final question: similarly to the last point, wouldn't Derek Chauvin's trial (and those of the other officers, assuming they proceed), be better either in this article—as they are direct fallout from the article's subject—or in a separate article? Having the trial in Chauvin's article when he's not notable for anything else seems a little strange to me, but am curious what others think.

Thanks, everyone, for the continued input and discussion! Elle Kpyros (talk) 14:54, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

The videos, once downloaded, still show the events they recorded at the time. Not at all like the vehicle searches, which started and finished well after the arrest. If police searched his residence or interviewed his associates later, that'd also be part of the follow-up investigation, not at the scene. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:07, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

The original edit by Elle Kpyros says "subsequently" which is completely correct. The car had been in storage for all that time and theoretically should be in the same state at it was at the time of his death. If the evidence has been tampered with in the meantime (a large thing to allege and something that has not happened to date) there are quite bigger problems. Un-revert the original edit. Nweil (talk) 22:32, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Both sentences are correct, if vague. But having a subsequent or later event described in a section named and otherwise all about "initial events" is plain absurd. Might as well describe the handcuffing part in "Minneapolis police response" with the word "earlier" attached. In this timeline, we use clock time, not indefinite time. Jarring to jump back and forth. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:58, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

The police car has been held in secure storage as evidence since the event, so the date the pill was found is only relevant if an allegation is it was planted there. This would be an interesting allegation seeing as it's police prosecutors who handed this evidence over to the defense team, not vice versa as the prosecution are the ones who searched the vehicle a second time in December. As always I think MORE information should always be in an article rather than less as a reader cannot be over informed on a matter, only under informed. 118.208.9.74 (talk) 04:11, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

More real information is good. But we have clearly-labeled relevant sections for it. If a "Minneapolis police response" (or whatever else) didn't happen between "Arrest and death" on May 25, it belongs somewhere more appropriate. No idea about any hypothetically interesting allegation. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:39, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Article has discrepancies.

County Medical Examiner's report officially confirmed George Floyd did not die of asphyxiation. Somebody forgot to write that little piece of factual information in the article. Cop8675309 (talk) 08:23, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

The article quotes the report as homicide caused by "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."—Bagumba (talk) 08:38, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Or to put it another way, what did it find the cause of death to be?Slatersteven (talk) 09:02, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

The cause of death only says what Baker thinks did kill Floyd, like in all reports. The absence of any sign of whatever else is sufficient to dispel it. Like how we also strongly imply Floyd wasn't beaten, shot or electrocuted, by simply not saying so. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:19, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

"hooping" wording removed

Floyd said he'd been playing basketball earlier and "hooping" is common slang for playing basketball. To bring in some sort of weird idea that it can mean using drugs is very biased wording for our article. To not mention that the sources used also said he said "please" nearly five dozen times and repeatedly said he was sorry, called the officers "sir" and said, "I’m sorry, I’m so sorry. God dang, man. Man, I got, I got shot the same way Mr. Officer, before," and saying that he was recovering from COVID, and yet use the same three refs to report that he had foam around his mouth shows blatant bias. Gandydancer (talk) 16:23, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Just a heads up, the issue was discussed in an archived conversation on talk here. Sincere questions: Why should the article change now, given the discussion and consensus that was reached then? Minnemeeples (talk) 17:49, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm sorry that I missed that discussion. I can't see as that it was settled at all. Reading the article as written I felt that a reader would come away with the impression that Floyd was referring to drug use. Why he would have been referring to drug use is beyond me when he had just said he'd been playing basketball and had just said that he said he wasn't on anything (though it was shown in the tox report that he actually was using a couple of drugs). And why is "foaming at the mouth" so prominent and worth mentioning while we skip so much else when it may not have been "foaming" at all, which comes with a clear image of "foaming" which may just as well have been traces of spit at the corners of his mouth (which I think I might as well have had in a similar situation, pleading for my life, etc). And why don't we mention that hooping as well, and more likely, means drugs up the butt for illegal transporting of drugs. Reading what we've got one gets the impression that foaming at the mouth may be a sign of drug intoxication, which it is not. This is especially important right now as this trial is underway. The best and most fair and unbiased way to solve this is to just remove it's mention from our article. Gandydancer (talk) 19:51, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Can you quote Floyd mentioning basketball? I can't find it in the transcript. The foam is relevant to the hooping because he directly responded to "You got foam around your mouth, too?" with "Yes, I was just hooping earlier." Seconds prior, they were discussing his apparent drugged state. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:59, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

To be clear, I don't have a problem with removing that part of the conversation entirely, just with saying Floyd said he was playing basketball. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:32, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

On that subject, there is no indication hooping, in Floyds context, explicitly meant drugs. What we are doing is relying on conflicting news sources speculating on the meaning of a particular word in a certain context... and some blatantly using Urban Dictionary as the source, or similar prison slang website. I have no issue with its inclusion, but we should certainly not be pushing a certain interpretation of the word. Koncorde (talk) 21:46, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflicts) The Tribune seemed to understand what he was saying and reported he was playing basketball. This is not hard to understand. He had just finished saying he was not on any drugs. Would he then turn around and say he had just put drugs up his butt? As for his supposed foaming at the mouth, can you find a medical side effect of drug use suggesting mouth foaming? Dry mouth is more likely, and that might result in spital at the corners of his mouth. As for saying that he had confessed to foaming, it should be easy to see that he was mostly interested in not being argumentative and would have likely said if Mr. Officer says I have foaming, OK I have foaming. Gandydancer (talk) 21:48, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

I don't presume to know what people mean when they're freaking out. Floyd said he can't breathe and can't choke. Wanted to lay on the ground and get up. Not resisting and not getting arrested. Did nothing wrong and understands the forgery complaint. Claustrophobic and didn't want to get out of his small car. Best to just quote his words, not try to interpret them or believe any columnists can. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:17, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

For your own personal consideration, not a shred of evidence has emerged suggesting Floyd had in fact recently played basketball, but plenty suggests he had recently taken dangerous drugs. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:39, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

And no, I don't believe meth makes people foam at the mouth. But it does make many talk excitedly and continuously, breathing rapidly. Since it takes air to talk and breathe, more spit is naturally frothed up and ejected. Not very far, just around the mouth. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:56, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

You need to understand something. Police lie and they lie for their fellow officers when they are investigated. And when people are afraid for their lives they lie too. At least for the most part white people only need to worry about killers and rapists but people of color, especially dark skinned people, need to worry when they are taken out by an officer of the law. You need to read the Death of Elijah McClain article. Read for yourself as the cops set themselves up in their excuse for their behavior. And read for yourself the absolutely heart-breaking last words of Elijah including his saying he's sorry for throwing up after he was held in a choke hold. Gandydancer (talk) 23:33, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

You "need to understand" that I'm a white guy who has been subdued, choked and pinned by friends, enemies and police more times than I can count. I also used to work at a newspaper where lying was rewarded and encouraged by advertisers. Let's stick to comparing pertinent facts, not sprawling irrelevant opinion, this ain't Twitter. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:01, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

The LA news source used to source the use of the meaning of hooping has a paywall. It seems that it is about an attorney's opinion? Could someone supply some copy here? The other source is a British Conservative Sunday paper. For such a notable fact, is this really adequate? Gandydancer (talk) 00:30, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

The Sunday Times is the paywalled one, the LA Times presents the opinion as the author's, and neither are used to support a fact. Some editor here has just set up a footnote with dueling opinions on a now-useless word to wonder about. All outlets agree Floyd did drugs earlier, and none report a basketball game. Deleting this part won't change that, it'll just stop readers from thinking maybe Floyd actually was playing basketball that day. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:04, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

They are both paywalled for me. Since the LA source is not paywalled for you could you please add the info here. As for "none reported a basketball game", yes I know that. However three sites that I first looked at reported that he said he'd been playing basketball (not putting drugs up his butt). Gandydancer (talk) 03:01, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Asked whether he was "on something," Floyd said he'd been "hooping," or taking drugs. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:09, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

What an absolute misrepresentation! Lane asked Floyd if he is "on something right now", and Floyd replied "No, nothing". Kueng asked Floyd about foam around his mouth, to which Floyd responded that he had been "hooping". WWGB (talk) 03:18, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

A lying newspaper? Somebody call the news! Seriously though, I'm just the typist here. You can contact Seattle Bureau Chief Richard Read with any suggested corrections. If indeed that is his real name. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:26, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

I think the current reporting of foaming/hooping, and the footnote, is comprehensive, balanced and stable. No need to change anything. WWGB (talk) 02:03, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

I believe that we as editors of this place are expected to read the RS so as to know what to include here. I will ask again that an editor that has been able to get through these paywalls to please include quoted information here for me and any other editors that are interested in a fair and unbiased article. There should be no concern about a copy vio if the information is attributed. Thanks. Gandydancer (talk) 14:28, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

I've been able to access the Sunday Times article. The relevant portion is: In the video Floyd also refers to “hooping”, which appears to be an allusion to drug use: fentanyl and methamphetamine were found in his system, according to a toxicology report. Regards, LewisMCYoutube (talk) 15:12, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

OK, thanks. Per WP: "The Sun was deprecated in the 2019 RfC. There is consensus that The Sun is generally unreliable. References from The Sun are actively discouraged from being used in any article and they should not be used for determining the notability of any subject. The RfC does not override WP:ABOUTSELF, which allows the use of The Sun for uncontroversial self-descriptions. Some editors consider The Sun usable for uncontroversial sports reporting, although more reliable sources are recommended." This source needs to be removed from this article. Now I need the LA source information with a quote and the source of the quote. Gandydancer (talk) 16:44, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

@Gandydancer: I think you're confusing The Sunday Times with The Sun. The former is generally reliable per RSP. Lester Mobley (talk) 16:53, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

With that I think we should close this.Slatersteven (talk) 16:55, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2021

Under the section titled “State of Minnesota v. Derek Michael Chauvin” there is a typo. Please change “office Mohamed Noor” to “officer Mohamed Noor.”

Context: “Prosecutors unsuccessfully sought a Court of Appeals injunction to postpone the trial, to review how the unrelated murder case of former Minneapolis police **officer** Mohamed Noor...”

Thank you. Djw1138 (talk) 11:05, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

All set. Thanks! ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:13, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

"Excited delirium"

This issue has been discussed on talk already here. The autopsy section awkwardly references that neither examiner mentioned "excited delirium." In my opinion, it is not necessary for the autopsy section to say what examiners didn't mention, and to refute possible court strategies. That seems argumentative and synth-ish, though the 538 article does discuss the context. It am going to suggest deleting the last paragraph of the autopsy section. It's not necessary there.

I do think it is worthwhile for the event narrative to note that Lane questioned Chauvin if they should roll Floyd on his side, but Chauvin said no. That is when Lane said, "Okay. I just worry about the excited delirium or whatever." (e.g., this source). The article discusses that bystanders were worried about Floyd's condition. But it doesn't mention at all disagreement among the officers about Floyd's condition. That seems to be important context. Any thoughts or concerns? Minnemeeples (talk) 13:26, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

I would agree, if the autopsies did not say it we should not point out they did not. As to the officer's "disagreement", that is a separate issue, and we need RS saying they disagreed (and ) can't view the presented srouce).Slatersteven (talk) 13:50, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

If one reads our excited delirium article I believe that one can see the importance of including it in our article. IMO this information should not be removed. Gandydancer (talk) 14:19, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Possible Outcome of Trial / Change in Article Title?

Although I'm very well clear on Wikipedia's stance on George Floyd's "murder", I am quite curious to know from Wikipedia staff / administrators themselves. With the trial currently going on as I write this out, and with a strong possibility (due to overwhelming evidence in his favor) that Derek Chauvin will NOT be charged for murder in the Death of George Floyd, is Wikipedia going to follow suit with the possible verdict from the judge and rename the article title to "Death of George Floyd" rather than "Murder of George Floyd"? --ZoomerEnlightenment (talk) 17:17, 18 March 2021 (UTC)