If reliable sources do this[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=2021_Atlanta_spa_shootings&type=revision&diff=1014045105&oldid=1013988722] (devote significant amounts of prose to reactions), there's no reason to think it is unreasonable for us to do so. [[User:Biosthmors|Biosthmors]] ([[User talk:Biosthmors|talk]]) 02:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
Revision as of 17:05, 1 April 2021
This is an archive of past discussions with User:TompaDompa. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Just a quick note that an editor has asked for opinions on improving the navbox {{Infectious disease}}. The discussion is here. I saw you've edited it several times, so I thought I'd let you know. I hope you're staying well. Ajpolino (talk) 15:44, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
Hello, you recently removed the lead image of the map of the British Empire that I added to the List of largest empires article. I'm hoping that this is a relatively short discussion between us. I'd like to respectfully present some of my opinions.
First of all I disagree with your assertion that "This map doesn't really improve the readers' understanding of the topic". The map does improve the reader's understanding of the topic. It presents them with the map of the largest empire in the history of the world. The size of empires is a very visual thing. When many people think of an empire they think of colored highlights and boundaries on a map. Many readers may not decide to click through to the article of the British Empire and so providing them with a visual example is helpful. The addition of the map of the British Empire fits in well with MOS:LEADIMAGE. Its a natural and appropriate representation. It's not at all of any shock value.
Second, I don't think there's anything wrong with the lead image emphasizing the top entry. I think it makes sense. It would obviously be a bit weird to include an image of the Zulu empire or the Caliphate of Cordoba because these empires (though important and significant) rank low on the list. So by this logic it follows that the empire that ranks the highest in terms of size should be the lead image.
Third, you may be surprised to find that I don't really have a problem with including a map which highlights both the British and Mongol empires...at least not in theory. Both empires are incredibly important and are the largest in the history of the world. However I do have some concerns about how the lead image would look. I wouldn't want a reader who is new to this topic to be confused. Also including two massive empires on one map could make the image seem cluttered and misshapen. I did find some maps that appear to include both the British and Mongol empires. But I don't know how precise these maps are, or how good they look. Also, I don't know if they would be usable under CC.
I want to make clear that I have no inherent problem with making a map of the Mongol Empire as the lead image of any relevant article. I think if you looked at my edit history you would find that I have a great amount of interest in that empire and time period. But of course I do have some concerns about the Mongol Empire map being used as the lead image for the List of largest empires article because it seems rather obvious to me that the largest empire on that list should be the lead image. -TrynaMakeADollar (talk) 07:11, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
The map you added doesn't improve the readers' understanding of the topic, it actually has the opposite effect as it is misleading. It includes Antarctic claims (not included in the area on the list) and includes every territory that was ever part of the British Empire, rather than presenting a snapshot of the greatest extent (which certainly wouldn't include the Thirteen Colonies, for example). It's suitable for informing readers about which parts of the world have been under British colonial rule, but not about the British Empire's status as the largest empire in history.
I don't think the article should have only a map of the largest empire of all time. It overemphasizes the top entry to detriment of all other entries. I also don't think that the gallery this article used to have was a particularly good solution. A single map which combines the top two entries would be a good compromise, though having no map whatsoever is also a perfectly valid option.
There's no reason a map of both empires would need to get cluttered. The map you added of the British Empire is fairly cluttered, but that's mostly because there is a bunch of text. It wouldn't be particularly difficult to create a map of both empires which is colour-coded such that we can simply write "The British Empire (red) and Mongol Empire (green) were the largest and second-largest empire, respectively" in the caption—the overlap is minimal and easily solved with shading. I just happen to lack the skills to make such a map. I'll make a request over at WP:GLMAP. TompaDompa (talk) 12:05, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
Discussion about First Lady and Second Gentleman-designate titles in infoboxes of Jill Biden and Doug Emhoff
Please join a discussion here regarding whether the terms "First Lady of the United States Designate" and "Second Gentleman of the United States Designate" should be in the infoboxes of Jill Biden and Doug Emhoff, spouses of the president-elect and vice president-elect, respectively. We need to come to a consensus. Thank you for your participation. cookie monster(2020)75521:25, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
Amitchell125: That looks pretty good, thank you very much! Two minor things: I think it would look better if the British Empire used a single, consistent shade – right now, Ireland, Gambia (and maybe also the rest of British West Africa? It looks slightly brighter to me...), Jamaica, Cyprus, and Newfoundland and Labrador are shaded differently than the rest – but maybe there's a good reason that different shades are used? Also, I think removing the borders would be an improvement since they only apply to the time period of the British Empire and not the Mongol Empire. TompaDompa (talk) 10:20, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
Hello! Voting in the 2020 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 7 December 2020. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
An RV that came under suspicion for reeking of meth, echoing with screams or driving on the wrong side of the road would be a "subsequent suspicious RV". But one catching heat for doing a thing that's only considered suspicious as a consequence of the main subject doing it similarly is a "subsequently suspicious RV". But don't get me wrong, you're also right. I appreciate and respect that! Just saying, think about it. InedibleHulk (talk) 13:52, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
Your recent editing history at Spanish Empire shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.
Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Confine this to the talk page, please. - Donald Albury14:38, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
@Donald Albury: I see where you're coming from, and I had no intention to keep reverting. The other editor has clearly shown that they have little to no interest in working collaboratively. I figured I would give them one last chance to back off or engage in discussion (note that I had left a couple of messages on their user talk page, which they ignored) before taking this to WP:ANI for reasons of them being WP:NOTHERE. Oh well, I guess it got an administrator's attention anyway. TompaDompa (talk) 14:49, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
Both of you reverted the other twice within an hour, so I issued the same warning to both of you. As long as neither of you make changes to that section of the article until such time as consensus is reached on the article talk page on that section of the article, I will be happy. - Donald Albury15:30, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
Stop YOUR DISRUPTIVE edits on World Language
Stop your crazy disruption of World Language article. I am going to undo all the edits you made and restore the article to how it was before. Come to the talk section to discuss. Dajo767 (talk) 02:04, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
Further to my comments and question in "Talk/World Languages > Two categories?" - here are a few extracts from various sites which may be worth considering as we try to come to some sort of 'equilibrium':
1. I think it's important to retain the English>French>Spanish>Portuguese>other languages hierarchy to accurately reflect the sources - TompaDompa (talk) 20:10, 18 October 2020 (UTC).
2. I would categorize and phrase it like this: English is universally considered a world language. French is generally, usually, or often considered a world language. Spanish is occasionally or sometimes considered a world language. Portuguese is rarely considered a world language. The other languages are generally not considered world languages. TompaDompa (talk) 22:27, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
3. I'd prefer the following labels:
English: universally (in all sources that accept the idea of there being such a thing as a world language);
French: generally or usually (in all sources that use the term "world language" in the plural);
Spanish: mostly (in most sources that use the term "world language" in the plural);
Portuguese: often (still in the majority of sources that use the term "world language" in the plural);
The others: occasionally or sometimes (in a minority of sources).
Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 10:59, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
4. That^ works for me. TompaDompa (talk) 21:42, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
5. In: Wikipedia - Global language system [de Swaan]:
English is described as'hypercentral' --- At the second highest level, 13 [>12] supercentral languages are very widely spoken languages that serve as connectors between speakers of central languages: Arabic, Chinese, ... French, German, Hindustani, Japanese, Malay, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish, Swahili and Turkish...[Dutch is not mentioned].
and:
6. Pyramid of languages of the world
This pyramid illustrates the hierarchy of the world's languages as proposed by Graddol (1997) in his book, 'The future of English? A guide to forecasting the popularity of the English language in the 21st century', published by the British Council:
The big languages: English, French.
Regional languages (languages of the United Nations are marked with asterisk): Arabic*, Mandarin*, English*, French*, German, Russian*, Spanish* and Portuguese..[Dutch, Hindi, Malay, Swahili, and Japanese are not mentioned].
7. Also in Wikipedia: Modern Standard Arabic (MSA) ... is a term used mostly by Western linguists to refer to the variety of standardized, literary Arabic that developed in the Arab world in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. It is the language used in academia, print and mass media, law and legislation, though it is generally not spoken as a mother tongue... MSA is a pluricentric standard language taught throughout the Arab world in formal education. It differs significantly from many vernacular varieties of Arabic that are commonly spoken as mother tongues in the area; these are only partially mutually intelligible with both MSA and with each other depending on their proximity in the Arabic dialect continuum.
We should be very careful with ranking languages because that might suggest that world language and global language are gradable terms, that global languages can be more global and less global. — BTW, I believe de Swaan is slightly off topic. It seems he uses the term global language system in the sense "global system of languages" (global language-system) rather than "system of global languages" (global-language system), and that's why he covers all extant languages. Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 14:52, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
How about a table that lists all possible world languages by number of sources that classify them as such in the first column, and that has another column with symbols, perhaps letters, that identify each such source? Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 16:31, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
This discussion really belongs at Talk:World language, and I've made a couple of comments there addressing some of these points, but I'll briefly reply to a few things here. Firstly, having spent more time searching for and reading sources since then, I'm less inclined to use either my phrasing or LiliCharlie's phrasing about the extent to which certain languages are considered world languages than I was back in November. Secondly, Ulrich Ammon [de] actually does treat the globality of world languages as something that can be graded and even ranked.[1] Thirdly, de Swaan's global language system (also referred to as the "world language system", see e.g. JSTOR 1601190) is indeed a global system of languages rather than a system of global languages as noted above, but since Benrabah equates the terms "supercentral language" and "world language",[2] I wouldn't say that it's off-topic. Fourthly, I don't think we should simply list the languages by number of sources that consider them world languages—that misses a lot of nuance in what the source actually say (in particular, it would not distinguish between a source not discussing a language at all and a source outright dismissing a language as not being a world language), treats all sources as being of equal weight (which they of course are not, since WP:CONTEXTMATTERS and so on), and is highly susceptible to WP:POVPUSHers adding a bunch of low-quality sources to move their favourite language up the list. With those points out of the way, I suggest that further discussion take place at Talk:World language. TompaDompa (talk) 23:36, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
If reliable sources do this[5] (devote significant amounts of prose to reactions), there's no reason to think it is unreasonable for us to do so. Biosthmors (talk) 02:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The discussion is about the topic [1]. Thank you. Gold333 (talk) 05:16, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
