Talk:Society of Saint Pius X

February 2019

User: ‎DizzinessOfFreedom, please read WP:UNSOURCED. You say, "The Society condemns Nazism". Just cite a statement by the Society or by any reliable source that says so. You also say that Pope Pius XI's Mit brennender Sorge "explicitly" condemned Nazism, not just implicitly by condemning some or other Nazi view. It nowhere uses the word "Nazi" o "Nazism". So it is difficult for you to indicate where the encyclical was explicit in its condemnation of Nazism. Obviously too, Pius XI did not say that "the Society condemns Nazism": the Society hadn't yet been founded, when Pius XI sent that encyclical. Bealtainemí (talk) 10:37, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

It is assumed that a Roman Catholic society should follow the principles of the Magisterium, now it is true that the Society does not follow most commands of the conciliar popes because of liberalism, but Pope Pius XI was a pope before Vatican II. it is impossible to get an statement from the Society saying "we condemn nazism" because this is naturally assumed. DizzinessOfFreedom (talk) 18:52, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

It is not assumed that every group that claims to be Catholic follows the directives of "pre-conciliar" popes. In the case of SSPX, it is well known that it disregards that of Pius XII: "bishops who have been neither named nor confirmed by the Apostolic See but who, on the contrary, have been elected and consecrated in defiance of its express orders, enjoy no powers of teaching or of jurisdiction since jurisdiction passes to bishops only through the Roman Pontiff", and "Acts requiring the power of Holy Orders which are performed by ecclesiastics of this kind, though they are valid as long as the consecration conferred on them was valid, are yet gravely illicit, that is, criminal and sacrilegious." See Ad Apostolorum Principis. Wikipedia is not a blog. If you want to write your own ideas, find a blog to do it on. But Wikipedia is no place for original research. Anything put on it must be verifiable by citation of a reliable source. If you insist on disregarding the rules of Wikipedia, you are liable to be blocked from editing. Bealtainemí (talk) 20:42, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

The SSPX does not disregard these directives, but claimed (I did not say: claimed rightly; but it did claim) to be justified in making an exception. It belongs to fairness to see that there's a distinction; there even is one if their claim is wrong. - As for performing acts that require the power of Holy Orders, to mention no other stuff, Pope Benedict did not demand their cessation when negotiating with them, and Pope Francis expressly granted them the faculties to do so. Let bygones be bygones. --2001:A61:260C:C01:CDA4:6F3C:1FEA:78A5 (talk) 06:24, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

I won't contradict you on that, Dizziness (if it's you); but what is needed is a statement by a reliable source (for instance, a publication of the Society itself) that it condemns Nazism (which also I don't deny). Cite such a source and on the basis of that source have Wikipedia state that the Society condemns Nazism. Bealtainemí (talk) 11:58, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Membership

Is there any reliable citations or sources to back up the SSPX membership figuers? In this source the SSPX claims that 11 new priest were ordained and thousnads attended the ceremony, and in this it claims that over 170 people attended the most recent SSPX event. Of course both of these come from the SSPX's website and as thus is WP:PRIMARY and as a result should be taken with a grain of salt. Are there any third-party sources on the SSPX's membership? Inter&anthro (talk) 18:54, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

What I usually do in such cases is use the News tab on Google in hope of finding some articles on the ordinations, professions or whatnot. This is how I found sources to Sisters Adorers of the Royal Heart of Jesus, which I have expanded a bit. You will probably have to look through different languages and use a lot of filters. If you can’t find anything from the big ones there’s always local or regional news, Catholic news, trad news such as The Remnant (although I don’t know if they report about SSPX specifically, I don’t really read stuff from them) asf. I don’t think I personally have time to do the searching, sorry. But perhaps you could do it if you want. Cheers. MichaelTheSlav (talk) 21:36, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

The Saint Mary's Academy and College claims to have over 700 students enrolled as of 2008. Given that the SSPX is attributed to have about 1,000 members in this article, I find that rather doubtful as the actual number is much higher. Both the SSPX and the PFSP usually claim to ordain around 10 men every year. That being said, not everyone who attends a school run by the SSPX or attends mass at an SSPX-run parish considers themself a member of the SSPX, and might just identify as a traditional Catholic or just Catholic. Thus it will probably be hard to come up with any reliable concrete numbers besides the sats that the SSPX itself publishes. Inter&anthro (talk) 05:27, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

SSPX and the others are priestly societies, and do not have lay members such as the people who attend their Masses and events. The only people counted in SSPX memberships are the ones who have been ordained and incardinated with them. Elizium23 (talk) 05:41, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Sorry I overlooked that, thanks. Inter&anthro (talk) 18:17, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Allies and supporters

It would be good to add information about Bishop Vigàno and Athanasius here. Eaden (talk) 17:40, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Section Needs Work: Lifestyle and clothing amongst SSPX adherents

I'm not sure what the purpose of this section is. There's a quote by a former SSPX member complaining about female attire, and then an anecdote about a mothers in skirts. Can we either get a fuller section that gives a more holistic view of the topic or consider scrapping this section? I am not convinced from reading this section how or if people whom attend the SSPX can be said to be distinct in any particular way. --Valepio (talk) 20:46, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

The section is worth keeping because there is a difference, which the citations show. You probably have never visited an SSPX Mass Center then nor attended any conferences of the SSPX. The difference between how those who are members of SSPX parishes versus those who attend the Novus Ordo is very noticeable.[1] There is a reason that the SSPX tells its members to avoid attending Novus Ordo churches.[2] If this group wasn't very different from the mainstream, SSPX clerics wouldn't be giving these admonitions. desmay (talk) 21:33, 5 May 2021 (UTC)