Talk:Italian Jews: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 00:06, 8 June 2021

This article has not yet been rated on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Jewish history C‑class

	Judaism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jewish history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Jewish history on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Jewish historyWikipedia:WikiProject Jewish historyTemplate:WikiProject Jewish historyJewish history-related
C	This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Italy C‑class Mid‑importance

	Italy portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Italy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Italy on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ItalyWikipedia:WikiProject ItalyTemplate:WikiProject ItalyItaly
C	This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Judaism C‑class Mid‑importance

	Judaism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Judaism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Judaism-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JudaismWikipedia:WikiProject JudaismTemplate:WikiProject JudaismJudaism
C	This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Ethnic groups C‑class High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ethnic groupsWikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groupsTemplate:WikiProject Ethnic groupsEthnic groups

C

This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

High

This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Ethnic groups open tasks:

Here are some open WikiProject Ethnic groups tasks:

Meta-tasks:
- Place the {{Ethnic groups}} template on the talk page of articles within the scope of this project.
- Resolve the disparity in importance rankings among different ethnic groups
Articles about ethnic groups that currently have issues needing resolution:
Start an article:
- Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Article requests

Feel free to edit this list or discuss these tasks.

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 2 February 2021 and 16 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Tacollins10 (article contribs).

Italqith

one thing i've wondered about for a long time now is: do italkim have their own dialect of hebrew (as well as the italkian language)?

Gringo300 08:20, 8 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Not a dialect per se, but a unique manner of pronunciation, yes...more analogous to an "accent" than a "dialect"... from what I understand, it's like modern israeli hebrew with a few vowel differences, especially in the north of italy. Tomer ^TALK 21:09, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

from what i've heard and read, there are various different dialects of italian spoken in different parts of italy, and i've read that the same applies to italkian, so it seems logical that hebrew spoken by italkim would be different in different parts of italy. so far however, i know more about italian FOOD than i do the italian language. i plan to change that however. Gringo300 16:08, 10 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that's nice. This article tho is about the Bnei Roma, not their language. Head on over to Italqith for that. You'll notice some of your questions are answered there. And enjoy the food! :-p Tomer ^talk 08:13, 26 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Italian Hebrew is very much like that of conservative Spanish and Portuguese Jews, for example ayin as "ng" (occasionally "ny"), final tav as "d". Vav is normally "v" as in most Hebrew dialects, but can become "w" in diphthongs (as in the family name "Anaw"). Also they mostly can't pronounce "he" (hence the family name "Coen"). I don't know about any regional variations. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 15:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is one difference, though, Italkim pronounce Beth Raphe as V while Spanish and Portuguese Jews pronounce it as B. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.166.129.232 (talk) 13:21, 19 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Old grammars (such as Hurwitz), based on contemporary Spanish and Portuguese (and ultimately Italian) usage, distinguish between initial ayin, pronounced "ny", and final ayin, pronounced "ng". It seems likely that the "ny" pronunciation was local to Rome, where the local dialect often has "gn" where Italian has "ng": see the article on "Romanesco" on Italian Wikipedia. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 17:34, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Other general features of traditional Italian pronunciation of Hebrew are: 1. final tav pronounced as /d/; 2. in speakers in communities south of the the La Spezia-Rimini isogloss, or in those communities transplanted north of this, conservation of geminate dagesh (both features seen in the pronunciation of שבת [ʃabːad], Judeo-Romanesque [ʃabːadːe]); 3. in construct masculine plurals with male singular possessive suffix יו-, pronunciation is not [-av] but [-au]. For additional features, as well as discussion of regional variants, see: Elia S. "La pronuncia dell'ebraico presso gli Ebrei di Italia." in Scritti in memoria di F. Luzzatto. Rassegna Mensile di Israel 28 (1962): 26-30. --Jerchower 18:30, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Name of article

What would people think of merging this into history of the Jews in Italy, a much older article? Michael Hardy 17:12, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'd rather not. History of the Jews in Italy is a much longer article, mostly from the Jewish Encyclopedia. This article is there simply to say what communities exist in Italy today, and dispel the impression that they are all "Italian Jews" in the historic sense of Bené Roma. Similarly, there are separate articles for History of the Jews in Syria and Syrian Jews, and for History of the Jews in Lithuania and Lithuanian Jews. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 16:19, 31 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Some time ago this article was moved to "Bené Roma" (it had been "Italkim"). I now have some doubts about this.

First, the traditional description of the liturgy, taken from the Talmud, is "Benè Romì". Secondly, this strictly speaking only applies to the liturgy of Rome, and not to the closely related "minhag Italiani" of northern cities such as Padua and Turin.

What we need is a term meaning "Jews of the Italian rite" (I'm not keen on "Italkim", that is a purely modern Israeli term used in academic literature). Failing that, I'd be tempted to merge this article with Italian Jews, so that that article describes the Italian rite after first explaining that there are other rites in use as well.

What do you think? --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) (talk) 09:47, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Should Italian Jews be merged with Bené Roma? The article should start as at present, and then describe the particular groups in more detail. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) (talk) 09:42, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Italian Jews. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070305121222/http://dewey.library.upenn.edu/sceti/ljs/PageLevel/view.cfm?option=view&ManID=ljs379 to http://dewey.library.upenn.edu/sceti/ljs/PageLevel/view.cfm?option=view&ManID=ljs379

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:58, 15 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Italian Jews. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:19, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Culture

Hi all,

I would like to propose introducing a "Culture" section into this article. The information covered in this article is very thorough and detailed, and therefore I believe that continuing with that momentum, while introducing a new sub-topic would be a great addition. I will be using two credible secondary sources that contain legitimate information on the topics of Italian Jewish culture and culinary traditions. Klein's source^[1] is reliable because it is contained within Italy's Jewish from Emancipation to Fascism and published by Cambridge University Press of Cambridge, UK. Dr. Shira Klein is an associate professor at Chapman University and her book was a finalist for the 2018 National Jewish Book Award. This source was also published in 2018. Weishouse, Harel, and Perani's source is reliable because it is contained within The Jews in Italy: Their Contribution to the Development and Diffusion of Jewish Heritage and was published by Academic Studies Press and it is based upon a conference that took place in September 2011 at the University of Bologna. This source was also published in October of 2019.

In this addition to the article, I will be incorporating more important content about Italian Jews and the history of their food traditions, with an additional emphasis on the culture that came to flourish within Italian Jewish tradition. From both secondary sources, I will be adding information regarding specific culinary traditions, such as maintaining kosher, the spread of Italian Jewish cuisine across Italy, as well as daily food traditions. In addition to speaking on food tradition, from Klein's article, I will introduce information on the Italian Jewish identity, life in Italian Jewish communities, and the legacy that has flourished through the passage of time.

The scope of my changes will range from around 200-300 words.

References:

^[2]

^[3]

If anyone wants to comment on these changes, please let me know on this Talk Page or on my Talk Page. Thank you! Tacollins10 (talk) 15:58, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

^ Shira Klein (2018). "A Thriving Jewish Life: Jewish Culture in the Kingdom of Italy". Italy's Jews from Emancipation to Fascism. Cambridge University Press. p. 57-84. ISBN 9781108424103.
^ Shira Klein (2018). "A Thriving Jewish Life: Jewish Culture in the Kingdom of Italy". Italy's Jews from Emancipation to Fascism. Cambridge University Press. p. 57-84. ISBN 9781108424103.
^ Weishouse, Zahava (2019). "Jewish Ashkenazi Gastronomy in Northern Italy in the Early Modern Period: The Testimony of the Book Mitzvot Hanashim". In Perani, Mauro (ed.). The Jews in Italy: Their Contribution to the Development and Diffusion of Jewish Heritage. Academic Studies Press. ISBN 9781644690253. {{cite book}}: More than one of |author1= and |last1= specified (help)

[1] Shira Klein (2018). "A Thriving Jewish Life: Jewish Culture in the Kingdom of Italy". Italy's Jews from Emancipation to Fascism. Cambridge University Press. p. 57-84. ISBN 9781108424103.

[2] Shira Klein (2018). "A Thriving Jewish Life: Jewish Culture in the Kingdom of Italy". Italy's Jews from Emancipation to Fascism. Cambridge University Press. p. 57-84. ISBN 9781108424103.

[3] Weishouse, Zahava (2019). "Jewish Ashkenazi Gastronomy in Northern Italy in the Early Modern Period: The Testimony of the Book Mitzvot Hanashim". In Perani, Mauro (ed.). The Jews in Italy: Their Contribution to the Development and Diffusion of Jewish Heritage. Academic Studies Press. ISBN 9781644690253. {{cite book}}: More than one of |author1= and |last1= specified (help)

[1]

[2]

[3]

@@ Line 5: / Line 5: @@
 {{WikiProject Ethnic groups|importance=high|class=c}}
 }}
-{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/Chapman_University/Jewish_Life,_Napoleon_to_Hitler_(Spring_2021) | assignments = [[User:Tacollins10|Tacollins10]] | start_date = 2021-02-02 | end_date = 2021-05-14 }}
+{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/Chapman_University/Jewish_Life,_Napoleon_to_Hitler_(Spring_2021) | assignments = [[User:Tacollins10|Tacollins10]] | start_date = 2021-02-02 | end_date = 2021-05-16 }}
 ==Italqith==