Talk:Prison–industrial complex

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Sophscar (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Naomiis, Michadea. This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Shafeenp (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Shafeenp.

Peer Review

This article is very well written and does a fair job at remaining neutral. There are a few areas that should be revised as previously pointed out by other comments on the talk page. The article is written in a way in which I remained interested during the whole read. One area that caught my attention is the Economics section. I think adding some statistics to validate what is said in the economics section would add a little more solidarity; statistics that explain how much profit is being made for industries from the PIC, how much are prison inmates actually being paid, and how much are the inmates actually working. Also, I think it would be beneficial to add more information from the point of view of the pro PIC perspective. AEsquibel23 (talk) 23:52, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Persistent POV problems

We are here to describe the use of the term, not assert it as fact, e.g. "The prison-industrial complex IS an industry fueled by the continuous incarceration of minority groups." Sentences like this undermine the credibility of the article. If you want to add minority groups as one of the activists' concerns, then cite your source and do so.

It is a fact that the prison population grew rapidly. It is a fact that there are businesses that profit from prisons. It is a fact that some writers and activists argue that one causes the other.

The prison industrial complex is not a fact, but a perspective. It's our job to outline and describe how source materials present and support this perspective. AECwriter 18:33, 23 August 2012 (UTC)aecwriter

Not a catch-all for everything prison

When adding to this article, please keep the topic in mind and ensure your edit relates to the concept of the Prison Industrial Complex. Readers should understand how your addition relates not just to prison issues in general, but to the idea that that is the subject of this article. At this point, people are frequently sourcing prison-related material which does not address the Prison Industrial Complex per se. The material you use must make that connection; you can't just do it on your own.

In one example, someone titled an external link, "Audio of a Christian Parenti talk on understanding and tackling the Prison Industrial Complex." This is not the title of the speech. In fact, Parenti nowhere uses the term "Prison Industrial Complex." Moreover, Parenti has stated elsewhere that he finds the term vague and unhelpful in understanding contemporary prison issues. AECwriter 18:12, 23 August 2012 (UTC)aecwriter

Comments

The United States is single handedly the country with the biggest Prison Industrial Complex in the world. In the book "Are Prisons Obsolete" by Angela Davis she explains in detail the extensive research shows that the injustices within our prison with our prisoners forced into labor.

(virus 234) www.alternativetentacles.com. (The URL for this CD is subject to change.)

The image associated with this web page is almost meant to influence the viewer to believe that there has been a clear change in policy that has caused the spike in incarcerated prisoners. This could match well with the population growth curve of the united states. I tried looking at the population growth of the united states from 1900-2012, but it only shows from 1980. The increase has been from ~200,000,000 to ~300,000,000, so maybe, it would be better to have an image on this page that shows the percentage rather than absolute number of incarcerated americans as a function of the year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.252.233.244 (talk) 20:42, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Proposed merger

User:Sea.wolf4/Sandbox/PIC Sandbox and User:Sea.wolf4/Sandbox1 are two articles about Prison-Industrial Complex, they should be merger in to this article. NWH5305 07:00, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

This article now exists in Czech

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Do not merge this article

"Prison Industry" links directly to "Prisons in the United States," and the concept of the prison-industrial complex, a central component of arguments against the American prison system, should not be merely a footnote of the other article.

Do not merge this article

Prison-industrial complex is a term of art often used by activists against the prison system -- it has a unique connotative meaning not sufficiently covered by "Prison Industry," especially considering that, as the previous poster mentioned, it links directly to "Prisons in the United States." 24.162.3.68 23:56, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Do not merge this article

The whole point in the term prison-industrial complex is to draw an analogy to the military-industrial complex. Indeed, the analogy is very strong, though this article does not drive it home. The military-industrial complex has its own article and there should be a parallel article on the prison-industrial complex. I have verified that the two articles presently reference one another, as they should. ThomHImself 03:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree, and am taking the liberty of removing the merge tag, as no arguments have been presented for the merge. Abeg92contribs 14:47, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Do not merge this article

Prison-industrial complex is a concept itself. Cant be merged with another article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ciup (talk • contribs) 19:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

Someone redo this article

this article is of very poor quality. everything after: " The prison-industrial complex refers to interest groups that represent organizations that do business in correctional facilities, such as prison guard unions, construction companies, and surveillance technology vendors...." needs to be redone. I wouldn't be suprised to find that our "prison-industrial complex" is in a sad state of affairs, but this article seems to being very narrowly represented by someone (or some people) who just want to state that our ""prison-industrial complex" is a bad thing. Helio462 15:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I fail to see how that's POV. It seems like a factual statement. Is it excluding any groups from the list of organizations? Is it naming to many that don't fall in that category? Please explain. I just saw this article being discussed here. —Slipgrid 18:22, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I can understand how you see that this is not a POV issue. The problem with this article really stems from the definition of "prison-industrial complex." "Prison-industrial complex" is not properly defined in this article at all. If you look at the article for "military-industrial complex", you will see that it is defined as "a close and symbiotic relationship among a nation's armed forces, its private industry, and associated political and commercial interests." Yet in this article prison-industrial complex is defined as "interest groups that represent organizations that do business in correctional facilities." I believe that the definition here should be broadened beyond the scope of interest groups and made to be more parallel to the definition of military-industrial complex, which is not the actual interest groups themselves, but is the existence of a functional relationship between the entity and private industry. Helio462 04:23, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

United States Prison Industrial Complex

The country with the biggest prison idustrial complex is the United States of America. In the book "Are Prisons Obsolete", Angela Davis describes how prisons have changed over time. She goes through extensive research to prove her point about the injustices within the prisons of the United States.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.117.137.132 (talk) 09:21, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

The user who claims that the United States has the biggest Prison Industrial Complex does not give any information to back up his statement, and gives a biased opinion when talking about which country has the biggest Prison Industrial Complex Jimmy2243

The phrase "biggest prison industrial complex" is nonsense because the term is used as an umbrella term for a whole suite of prison issues, typically the privatization of prisons, mandatory sentencing laws that increase conviction rates, inadequate education/mental health services, etc. However, the Wikipedia entry for "United States incarceration rate" does cite multiple sources to verify the claim that the US has the HIGHEST INCARCERATION RATE, as well as the highest prisoner population. (That entry is also under neutrality dispute, but the US Bureau of Justice Statistics (federal agency) stated as recently as November 30 2009 that the US has the highest incarceration rare.) Aecwriter AECwriter 19:56, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Bias

The paragraph about conspiracy basis is completed loaded and slanted.

Poor Graph

The graph on this page does not take into account overall US population. If it factored in the growth from 1900 to present the incarceration increase would seem a lot less significant! --173.69.173.70 (talk) 23:16, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Uhhhh Really? Did the US Population Triple between 1980 and 2006? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.138.187.138 (talk) 21:26, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Did the US Population Triple between 1980 and 2006? Good question. I don't know. Why should I have to look it up and then plot my own graph? There is already a graph with the relevant data here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._incarceration_rates_1925_onwards.png Since the prison population growth per-capita is the thing of interest that is the graph that should be shown.--67.69.227.99 (talk) 21:14, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Prisons - Abolish or Reform

In her book "Are Prisons Obsolete", Angela Davis proposes abolishment of the prison system, not reform. Her premise is that if we agree that racism should not continue, and if we agree that prisons are racist, we cannot abolish one without abolishing the other. Eng103critical (talk) 03:42, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

The term is used by both prison abolitionists and reformers. And people who themselves are unsure if they are either. Angela Davis (abolitionist) defined the term before Eric Schlosser (reformist). Davis describes the "prison industrial complex" as a structure of capitalist racism and co-founded Critical Resistance, a prison abolition group that was widely quoted in mainstream media articles on prison reform. Critical Resistance's messages sometimes mixed abolitionist and reformist messages. In addition, Critical Resistance was presented as reformers by mainstream journalists who soft-peddled or were unaware of/confused by the group's true ideological stance. (Possibly intentional on the part of Critical Resistance, since the Associated Press and other mainstream news outlets would be inclined to exclude strident abolitionists from the debate.) For instance, "Books Not Bars," a slogan much-used by Critical Resistance, suggests a reformist position of redistributing prison funding to education, though the group's brochure states they are abolitionists. Neither Davis nor Schlosser take credit for the term "Prison Industrial Complex." Multiple bio summaries following Davis interviews say she "helped popularize" the term, which may be an understatement given that she made the term a centerpiece of a grassroots campaign over several years. Aecwriter (talk) 17:24 11 May 2010 (UTC)

References

No hyphen for "Prison industrial complex"

The Wikipedia style guide for Hyphens states they should be used to link prefixes and that they should "disambiguate." I don't think "Prison-industrial complex" is any clearer than "Prison industrial complex." The Chicago Manual of Style and Associated Press guidelines (which go further in describing the hyphenation of compound modifiers) also do not support the use of a hyphen in this instance. "Prison-industrial" is not a compound modifier because they do not work together, as do the compound modifiers all-powerful ruler, self-reliant writer, and half-baked concept. "Compound words are two or more words that work together in a specified order." http://www.docstyles.com/cmscrib.htm What else in this world could be described as "prison-industrial"? Would you say, "That's a very prison-industrial argument?" "Industrial complex" works together more than or as much as "Prison-industrial," therefore no hyphen. AECwriter 19:45, 12 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aecwriter (talk • contribs)

Part of the point seems to be that the term is analogized from the far more widely known military-industrial complex and thus follows that style. IIRC, the transcript of Eisenhower's Farewell Address places a hyphen between "military" and "industrial," as does the bulk of the relevant research in sociology, political science and others. The purpose of the hyphen in both cases is to portray prisons and industry in the one case, and the military and industry in the other, as equal partners in a political and socioeconomic complex defined by their complicity. It's also seemingly accepted in the literature by now and not likely to change. Finally, I would argue that prison-industrial does serve a disambiguating purpose vis-a-vis prison industrial as it removes the possibility that the reference is to industry endogenous to individual penitentiaries (e.g. among prisoners in their spare time), rather clarifying a reference to the power, commercial and societal interests that collude in the operation and administration of the penal system. smf (talk) 05:03, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

What about prison guard unions?

I'm not familiar with the formal writings on this topic, but from the casual conversation I've seen on the net, the prison guards unions are also a big component of the PIC. Particularly in CA. I wonder if this is excluded because someone was focusing too much on the prison franchises granted by the state, and ignoring what happens with "in house" prisons. 130.49.247.82 (talk) 18:26, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

opposition to the Penticton Prison–industrial complex

Dennis Baker Penticton BC 250-462-3217 dennisbaker2003@hotmail.com The Penticton Prison01/02/2011 I would like to address the prison issue on a couple of what I believe are pertinent interactive and overlooked points, and request public support for an environmental impact statement prior to construction of a prison! The suggestion that a prison be built as economic stimulus is accurate in the associated jobs, but at what cost? The perquisite Environmental Assessment would have to take into consideration the end product of prison incarceration process, The Prisoner. The perquisite Environmental Assessment would have to take into consideration the powers given to the prison employees “citizens” regarding punishments, and the following of signed international agreements regarding Rights and Privileges, of Prisoners. And The Citizens 1, a) the cost in California has been estimated at 40 % of GDP. That’s the tax payer YOU. 1,b) the alleged necessity of these prisons is the Harper Crime Bill , which as copied from California, demands minimum long term prison sentences for first time drug convictions. That meant long term incarceration facilities (prisons), were constructed to house thousands of new prisoners. The availability of narcotics in California has not diminished. The vast majority of these convicted drug prisoners are just addicts to illegal narcotics, fetching for someone to get a piece for their own use as drug addicts. Similar to an alcoholic offering another alcoholic, a beer, to go fetch a six pack, or tobacco addict offering another tobacco addict a couple of cigarettes, to go fetch a pack. The Prison Guards Union was found to be the advocates of this law and spent an estimated 8 million dollars on advertising when the law was to be voted on again by the citizens in a referendum, whom after the fact realised the folly of the mandatory minimum sentences, and ended it. I suspect the crash of a CIA rendition jet, with tons of Cocaine may have caused citizens to suspect that the government was imprisoning thousands of fellow citizens for the substances the government was delivering to them. 2, a > y) Prisons do not manufacture model citizens, anywhere at any time. 2, z) the purpose of prisons is to create fear in the citizens of the government, and a place to beat down into submission anyone caught not showing sufficient fear. That may manifest as criminal activity or many other things such as civil disobedience, protest, speaking out, and often even political opponents are imprisoned. Graduates of the Prisons are then prohibited from participating in society and employment. Then re-imprisoned, for trivial criminal code offences, often laws that are applicable only to citizens with criminal records. Occasionally one of these beaten dogs bite back! As was seen on CBC regarding Ashley Smith; she was asked to leave a cell, already restrained, wrist to waist. Placed in a reclining couch like apparatus that eliminates all body movement! Several Canadian Citizens have died in these modern versions of the torture cage. Alcatraz had a similar system only the prisoners were standing immobile between two sets of bars. She also had previously been tazered! Yes, she was a convicted criminal; she had thrown crab apples at a postal employee. And was treated as an equal with the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, tortured, and induced into suicide. Canada, has signed international agreements on the treatment of prisoners which include One person to a cell, No mixing of sentenced and not sentenced prisoners, one hour fresh air every day! Kamloops Prison KRCC as well as most prisons in Canada now has two or more to a cell, regardless mixing remand and sentenced prisoner. Profits’ are based on numbers to all suppliers to the prison. More prisoners equal more sales. The present Penticton city council includes several repeats from city council when the RCMP station was constructed. I informed them at that time of the basic right to one hour fresh air every day. Citizens are often held for several weeks in solitary confinement, in the Penticton RCMP cells, without fresh air. This clearly indicates the concern for the basic rights of Penticton citizens, and should be an indicator of similar considerations regarding a larger prison. It was you, your friends and family, whom Mike Pearce and Dan Ashton, denied “Penticton Residents”, of the most basic right of every prisoner on this planet. Fresh Air. Several Penticton citizens have died in the Penticton RCMP cells, how many proportional projected deaths in a Proposed Prison are too many? Since it takes 20 plus years to look at a wrongful murder conviction in Canada, no one looks at the frequency of wrongful convictions and sentences ranging from between one day and fifteen years. The proposed prison will also deliberately with malicious forethought violate these international agreements intended to prevent Human Trafficking by governments. Slavery discussed and disguised as public safety. 3,a) The BC Law Society has circumvented the process of Habeas Corpus,( produce the body), a right almost one thousand years old. In British Columbia without the signature of a lawyer/ notary, the Court registrars will not process a writ of Habeas Corpus to force the Province to justify an imprisonment in Supreme Court. Wrongful imprisonments are therefore without recourse or redress! 3,b) The Citizen has a moral and ethical responsibility to ensure the safety of our fellow Canadians! Every Royal Commission and/or Inquiry into the RCMP has come to similar conclusions that the RCMP Lie and are an out of control organization! The Prisons have approved methods of torture in Canada! Canada Ignores International Agreements regarding the Rights of Prisoners. Canadian Citizens are wrongly convicted. Why is Canada not on the UN Security Council, the present Police State does not promote security internationally or at home? Stephen harper and Stockwell Day has our soldiers rounding up children in Afghanistan to be imprisoned and tortured. Would some in Penticton benefit economically from a prison, sure? I am confident in stating many got rich in the communities which built concentration camps. Certainly the barbed wire salesmen did okay. Stockwell Day and The Harper conservatives will have a slogan next election. Vote for Harper and he will imprison thousands of you. Say No to the Prison by saying No to Stockwell Day on Federal Election Day! Say No to a prison by saying NO to Dan Ashton and Mike Pearce on Municipal Election Day! Your vote is the only thing that stops the planned, mass incarceration of Canadian Citizens!

Dennis Baker —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.67.28.177 (talk) 18:06, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

This Article accurately explains the concept

I think the article was very informative and accurately depicts the concept of the prison industrial complex. I don't know how this article could be changed and still accurately capture the concept. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.100.90.38 (talk) 02:27, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Needs references

I started reading this page, and I'm very much concerned about the lack of references and accountability. If it's that serious a topic, then why on Earth leave giant conclusions and claims without any clue as to where they came from? Eddievhfan1984 (talk) 09:00, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Checking for neutrality

I believe this article needs vetting for neutrality.

Source-less phrases like "The prison-industrial complex is an industry fueled by the continuous incarceration of minority groups" (found on section "race and gender") reek of disingenuous writing and race-oriented bias.

Assassin3577 (talk) 10:32, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Neoliberalism

Removed section on Neoliberalism. It was a sloppily written opinion piece, added nothing to the article, and wasn't all that coherent. Whether or not Neoliberal ideology spawned the Prison Industrial Complex is a subject for political blogs, not an encyclopedia. 74.60.214.29 (talk) 02:59, 30 July 2012 (UTC)MN

History section of this article

The history portion of this article posits that the prison industrial complex began in 1973 with the Rockefeller drug laws (citation needed). It seems more accurate to say that the exact term "Prison Industrial Complex" began to be used then. Historically there has always been a lot of crossover between private interests and the government oversight of prisons - this long history of private business activity around prisons is the real origin of the current "Prison Industrial Complex." Prison labor has benefitted private companies throughout history; land deals have benefitted private interests, etc. This article could have a much more interesting history section if the focus was expanded, and the narrow definition removed. Cleshne (talk) 23:52, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

References

recent mass deletions of new edits

I've restored edits that are well sourced and pertain to the article. Any further attempts at mass deletion will be reverted.--C.J. Griffin (talk) 15:56, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Try getting WP:CONSENSUS before making such a mass reversion -- See WP:BRD - your "bold edits" were reverted - it is now time to discuss them, not to simply knee-jerk restore them. Cheers. Collect (talk) 21:35, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Why don't YOU get consensus before making such a knee-jerk and bold mass deletion? Your criticisms aren't even valid as the additions are well sourced (ACLU, NPR, The Nation) and are certainly relevant to the sections they were placed in (e.g., CCA's involvement in creating draconian legislation to imprison more immigrants in Arizona in the "immigration" section). You can't mass delete edits because WP:I just don't like it.--C.J. Griffin (talk) 01:38, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Did you read WP:BRD? You made the major additions (which do not appear to be rationally sourced to places linking those companies to the article topic as stated) and so it is up to you to get consensus for retention of the stuff. Cheers. Collect (talk) 13:18, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

I think that the section Collect removed is not written in a neutral manner. It includes quotes by prison owners saying that profits are affected by incarceration rates, which is evidence that there is a prison industrial complex. To be neutral however we need to say something like, "So-and-so argues that the fact prison profits are affected by profits is evidence that there is a prison industrial complex." We should present arguments that others have made, not make the arguments ourselves. A discussion thread has been created for this article at WP:NPOVN. TFD (talk) 14:05, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. I have commented at the noticeboard as well. Capitalismojo (talk) 15:50, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

horrid mess

A huge amount of the "references" and "external links" are not valid sources per WP:EL and WP:RS. A huge amont of text is "simply "anti-prisons" and has nothing to do with the term which specifically is about a profit motive -- if no such motive relates to a section, it does not belong. Additionally, stuff like youtube videos generally fails WP:RS, WP:V, and the use of them violates WP:NPOV. There is still stuff left which is polemic enough - but this article has lasted too long in an incredibly sorry state. Also the mountain of "see also" is not per policy - we do not simply add every thought which comes into our heads into such lists. Collect (talk) 14:01, 9 May 2013 (UTC) Collect (talk) 14:01, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

This is an enormous load of unrelated material. Is there some sort of school project going on? Capitalismojo (talk) 14:52, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

It got a "knee-jerk revert" to re-add it all (every single silly bit) -- but the second time only the material about specific companies was re-added. Still a horrid mess of an article, though. Collect (talk) 14:55, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Ron Kuby

Just started looking at this article. I noticed the History section has a sentence by Ron Kuby about mandatory sentencing. But the sentence was not sourced. I looked for quite some time and could not find a source for it. However, the NY Times and the Nation carry an article by Judge Mark W. Bennett where he makes a very similar statement to the one attributed to Ron Kuby. The quote is "(mandatory sentencing) destroy families and mightily fuel the cycle of poverty and addiction. In fact, I have been at this so long, I am now sentencing the grown children of people I long ago sent to prison". I propose re-assigning the authorship of the statement and using the new source.--Luke Warmwater101 (talk) 05:35, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

It's been a while and there's been no comment, I will replace the quote with the new one which is sourced.--Luke Warmwater101 (talk) 04:01, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Pointless

Having tracked this article for three years, I have to conclude that it will be forever be weighed down with the polemics of people on a mission to tell the world that prison growth is purely profit-based, while also throwing in every other injustice related to prisons. The article has been corrected with a neutral tone three times and always drifts back toward dogma. Citations often do not support the sentences to which they are attached, or mention the "prison industrial complex" not at all.

I'm done contributing credible, neutral sentences to this article. Those that were not deleted only lend credibility to spurious claims.

I leave you with this:

In 2012, the Associated Press reported that the top three private prison companies "have spent at least $45 million combined on campaign donations and lobbyists at the state and federal level in the last decade," and that laws they supported primarily impacted private immigrant detention facilities for the federal government. By contrast, the pharmaceutical industry's lobbying contributions were $900 million in just seven years, and defense contractors have given $27 million in a single financial quarter.

According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, about 8% of state prisoners and 18% of federal prisoners are housed in private facilities. The rest are in government facilities, which do as much cost cutting as any other government agency, and where swelling budgets are not welcomed. Mandatory minimums are being repealed in some states, and the prison population has been dropping slightly for several years.

Leave this article to rot. 98.248.125.79 (talk) 09:41, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Sentencing Reform Act?

The graph makes that look like potentially the start of a bigger spike in incarceration than even the drug laws, but no reason why or anything said of it or the Comprehensive Crime Control Act of 1984 and both articles on them are miniscule.--T. Anthony (talk) 12:10, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Article Suggestion/thought

In the first paragraph under "History" before the sentence regarding the federal judge Mark W. Bennett it feels like there should be something there describing the intentions of the law before going into Benett's remarks of how it destroys families. It feels/reads very uneven or negative. Maybe it's just me.Shadowbolt7 (talk) 11:28, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Vera Institute of Justice survey

as part of my class project/research i came across this article/webpage talking about a survey done to find the budgets and costs of each state for housing prison inmates. Haveing a dollar amount/cost of housing inmates in states might be something to add just as another fact to consider. I'm not entirely sure at the moment if it would fit and where in this page but i thought i would post a brief summary on it and list the source/date/authors. (still a little new to writing/editing properly for wiki pages).

in 2011 The Vera Institute of Justice surveyed state correction departments to gather data on what the true cost of prisons were. Their reports showed that most states had additional costs ranging from one percent to thirty-four percent outside of what their original budget was for that year.

http://www.vera.org/pubs/special/price-prisons-what-incarceration-costs-taxpayers

Christian Henrichson and Ruth Delaney

"The Price of Prisons: What Incarceration Costs Taxpayers"

http://www.vera.org/

02/29/2012

webpage accessed 9/25/2014 Shadowbolt7 (talk) 07:06, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Wiki class project/additional sources

As part of a class project/research we are to add additional sources that we can find on this topic to the talk page and begin reading through and working on what we can find that may be useful to add to this topic. I have two sources that i will list here and be reading through as part of that project. If i do come across something that I think might be helpful I will post it here and perhaps with a little help/editing it may be something that will be useful to add onto the main page.

My Two sources i will be working on

Title: The perpetual prisoner machine : how America profits from crime /

Author(s): Dyer, Joel. Publication: Boulder, Colo : Westview Press, Year: 2000 Description: x, 318 p. ; 24 cm. Language: English Contents: A New Commodity -- The Crime Gap -- Violence for Profit -- Manufacturing Fear -- The Politics of Public Opinion -- The Weapons of War -- Collateral Damage -- Same Old Logic, Same Old Problems -- The Hidden Costs of Private Prisons -- Sidestepping the Restraints of Democracy -- Pulling the Plug. Standard No: ISBN: 0813335078 (alk. paper); 9780813335070 (alk. paper); 0813338700; 9780813338705 LCCN: 99-45576 Abstract: "In The Perpetual Prisoner Machine, author Joel Dyer takes a critical look at the United States' criminal justice system as we enter the new millennium. America has more than tripled its prison population since 1980 even though crime rates have been either flat or declining. If crime rates aren't going up, why is the prison population? The Perpetual Prisoner Machine provides the answer to this question, and shockingly, it has little to do with crime or justice. The answer is "profit"." "The Perpetual Prisoner Machine explains how the new prison-industrial complex has capitalized upon the public's fear of crime - which has its origins in violent media content - to help bring about the "hard on crime" policies that have led to our prison-filling, and therefore profitable "war on crime."" "Dyer concludes that powerful, market driven forces have manipulated America into fighting a very real war against an imaginary foe."--BOOK JACKET.

Title: THE PRISON INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX.

Authors: Thompson, Heather Ann

Source: New Labor Forum (Sage Publications Inc.). Fall2012, Vol. 21 Issue 3, p38-47. 10p.

Document Type: Article

Subject Terms: PRISON industries FINANCIAL crises LABOR supply WORKING class UNITED States Economic conditions ECONOMIC aspects

Geographic Terms: UNITED States

NAICS/Industry Codes: 561320 Temporary Help Services

Abstract The article focuses on the role of prison industry in the shrinking economy of the U.S. It states that because of the U.S. carceral crisis, the prison labor supply was considered and tapped by the law. It says that federal prisons have started the business of manufacturing textiles. Meanwhile, it suggests that there is only one working class in the U.S., whether one works beyond or behind the walls of prison.

ISSN: 1095-7960

DOI: 10.4179/NFL.213.0000006

Accession Number:82351793

Shadowbolt7 (talk) 05:50, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Wiki class project:

OK, so as part of the class assignment we're supposed to find and post a total of three sources. My partner and I decided to try and do 2 each so that we would have an extra one to go off of for future research. So far I have only found one that I really like, and that I believe is recent enough to contribute solid contemporary information on the subject.

Title: Who's getting rich off the prison-industrial complex?

Author: Ray Downs

Source: www.vice.com/read/whos-getting-rich-off-the-prison-industrial-complex

Document Type: Article

Subject Terms: Mass Incarceration For Profit Prisons Overcrowding

Geographic Focus: United States

General Overview: Downs goes into detail about certain individuals who have made huge financial gains off of for profit prison industries. Using stock market data, he showed that GEO group, and Corrections Corporation of America were the two biggest players in the for profit prison game. The article also links the growth of the prison-industrial complex to the war on drugs, and politicians of both major parties having vested interests in the incarceration of individuals for profit.

TomOlney End — Preceding unsigned comment added by TomOlney (talk • contribs) 02:31, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Wiki class project/Summary Project/Work plan

As part of our class project we are to write a summary plan of what we will be working on to help improve the Wikipedia topic we have chosen. Below is a list of things we will be working towards adding or improving.

Topic Summary/Intro:

Try and find a simple/better explanation for what what the topic is. Smaller simpler words or or perhaps examples to include to explain to the readers who are unfamiliar with the topic or it's related material.

History: Any current news or updates on the topic within the last decade. Perhaps find any gaps in the history through the decades or critical events.

Economics: what specific groups are or would be interested in growing the prison industrial complex and how it affects them. Private VS government run and where the money goes. There are some facts/things noted in this section but it may be possible to expand a little in each area through it. The idea of free labor may need to be explained. What is it the prisoners may be doing or work that results in this (on top of the jobs that are already required for running the prison)(Prisoners working/crafting/producing goods to be sold by the prison).

Prison Abolition:

It mentions the movement of the group and part of it's focus on increasing funding of social programs in order to lower the rate of crimes. What other areas are they working on to shrink/remove this issue. If significant information is found that expands this section it may have to be done carefully as to not shift the page topic off course. It may be worthwhile to keep it written in such a way that for every event that is talked about involving the group how it impacted the prison industrial complex rather than risk focusing to much on the movement. It will depend on what information we find so will cross that bridge for discussion when we get there.

Immigration:

The first paragraph really need to explain how it ties into the main topic before jumping right into data/facts.

Crime and prison counts/rates:

Perhaps a section that connects policy's or the numbers of prisoners through the years that have come as a result of the prison industrial complex. This might be a little harder to narrow down as there are many other factors to consider.

Are there incentives or specific things given to private prisons that make them more attractive than a prison ran by the government? Regulations? Data between the two regarding costs and incidents (any inmates that are injured or reports that include damage to people or property).

Shadowbolt7 (talk) 13:46, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Suggestions for revisions and expansions

It might be useful to add a new section (with subsections) that deals with the costs and benefits of a partnership between prisons and industry. Costs and benefits could include discussions of the economic, social, and criminal justice implications of these partnership. This could address some of the concerns about neutral point of view. Profmwilliams (talk) 19:08, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Peer Review

This article is very well written and does a fair job at remaining neutral. There are a few areas that should be revised as previously pointed out by other comments on the talk page. The article is written in a way in which I remained interested during the whole read. One area that caught my attention is the Economics section. I think adding some statistics to validate what is said in the economics section would add a little more solidarity; statistics that explain how much profit is being made for industries from the PIC, how much are prison inmates actually being paid, and how much are the inmates actually working. Also, I think it would be beneficial to add more information from the point of view of the pro PIC perspective. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AEsquibel23 (talk • contribs) 23:49, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

I agree that the economics sections could use some work. I am currently working on a section that ties in with safety and health of prisons but also connects with some costs/economics about the decisions they make. I'll see what i can do to work on that. What i may do is split the cost portion of what i am working on into the economics section and add what i can in a new section for health and safety. My big hurdle is getting another source to back up what i had previously written (and what was taken down). In order to comply with Wikipedia guidelines i have to have more than one source for what i post( two source saying the same thing essentially, from what i understand). Shadowbolt7 (talk) 18:46, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Proposal to edit article reflect a more neutral POV, more references, and correct bias. Along with changing of subsection order

I would like to work on this article to help bring in a larger variety of references and resources to help with the neutrality and bias. I think that the article should tie into the topics of race and ethnicity/race and crime in the United States. I would like to do some reorganization of the structure of the page as well as some headings such as Prison Abolition and School-to-Prison pipeline can be condensed under a similar category of Response/Reaction.

I anticipate to use the following sources to cite information from Mason, Cody . “Too Good to be True: Private Prisons in America.” The Sentencing Project , The Sentencing Project: Research and Advocacy for Reform, Jan. 2012, sentencingproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Too-Good-to-be-True-Private-Prisons-in-America.pdf. Accessed 1 Oct. 2017. “Banking on Bondage: Private Prisons and Mass Incarceration.” American Civil Liberties Union, www.aclu.org/banking-bondage-private-prisons-and-mass-incarceration. Accessed 1 Oct. 2017. Whitehead, John W. “Jailing Americans for Profit: The Rise of the Prison Industrial Complex.” The Huffington Post, TheHuffingtonPost.com, 10 Apr. 2012, www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w-whitehead/prison-privatization_b_1414467.html. Accessed 1 Oct. 2017. “The War on Crime, LBJ and Ferguson: Time to Reassess the History.” Time, Time, time.com/3746059/war-on-crime-history/. Accessed 1 Oct. 2017. Schlosser, Eric. “The Prison-Industrial Complex.” The Atlantic, Atlantic Media Company, 1 Dec. 1998, www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1998/12/the-prison-industrial-complex/304669/. Accessed 19 Sept. 2017. Johnson, Carrie. “20 Years Later, Parts of Major Crime Bill Viewed As Terrible Mistake.” NPR, NPR, 12 Sept. 2014, www.npr.org/2014/09/12/347736999/20-years-later-major-crime-bill-viewed-as-terrible-mistake. Accessed 28 Sept. 2017. Lussenhop, Jessica. “Clinton crime bill: Why is it so controversial?” BBC News, BBC, 18 Apr. 2016, www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36020717. Accessed 1 Oct. 2017. “Who's Getting Rich off the Prison-Industrial Complex?” Vice, 17 May 2013, www.vice.com/en_us/article/mvpzkp/whos-getting-rich-off-the-prison-industrial-complex. Accessed 1 Oct. 2017 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kylaj (talk • contribs) 21:35, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Kylaj (talk)

Updated Proposal for Revisions

Proposed Revisions To Prison-industrial Complex article:

Lead: The lead does a decent job of introducing the term “prison-industrial complex” (PIC) in its most technical definition. It does a quality job of describing the issue and agents involved with the economic side of developing the prison-industrial complex. I would remove a sentence that is not entirely nonbiased that refers to the NORML (National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws) advocating that the prison industrial complex promotes imprisonment as an effective solution to social problems. I would rather these sentiments be reflected in a category more centered around response/action/solutions.

I. History a. I would want to include a greater in variety of sources in this section. Also, this section is not very oriented around actual history of the PIC and the first “historical” reference is dated back to 1997. I would expect more information revolving around the origin and evolution of PICs throughout a longer period of history. I will put in a paragraph referencing the start and rise of private prisons, including information of the motivation behind privatizing detention centers. I will also include a link to the Wikipedia article, “Private Prison”

References

a. Mason, Cody . “Too Good to be True: Private Prisons in America.” The Sentencing Project , The Sentencing Project: Research and Advocacy for Reform, Jan. 2012, sentencingproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Too-Good-to-be-True-Private-Prisons-in-America.pdf. Accessed 1 Oct. 2017.

b. “Banking on Bondage: Private Prisons and Mass Incarceration.” American Civil Liberties Union, www.aclu.org/banking-bondage-private-prisons-and-mass-incarceration. Accessed 1 Oct. 2017.

c. Whitehead, John W. “Jailing Americans for Profit: The Rise of the Prison Industrial Complex.” The Huffington Post, TheHuffingtonPost.com, 10 Apr. 2012, www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w-whitehead/prison-privatization_b_1414467.html. Accessed 1 Oct. 2017.

d. “The War on Crime, LBJ and Ferguson: Time to Reassess the History.” Time, Time, time.com/3746059/war-on-crime-history/. Accessed 1 Oct. 2017.

e. Schlosser, Eric. “The Prison-Industrial Complex.” The Atlantic, Atlantic Media Company, 1 Dec. 1998, www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1998/12/the-prison-industrial-complex/304669/. Accessed 19 Sept. 2017.

I would want to reference the Crime Bill that was supported by the both the Clinton and Bush administration that played a large role in increasing the rate of incarcerated individuals. I would also like to link the Crime Bill to the Wikipedia article, “Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994”

References a. Johnson, Carrie. “20 Years Later, Parts of Major Crime Bill Viewed As Terrible Mistake.” NPR, NPR, 12 Sept. 2014, www.npr.org/2014/09/12/347736999/20-years-later-major-crime-bill-viewed-as-terrible-mistake. Accessed 28 Sept. 2017.

b. Lussenhop, Jessica. “Clinton crime bill: Why is it so controversial?” BBC News, BBC, 18 Apr. 2016, www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36020717. Accessed 1 Oct. 2017.

II. Economics

This section of the article does not reflect a very neutral perspective. I think more statistics and monetary evidence are needed to help support the claims made. The focus of this section should be on the currency and incentive/value of PICs and who benefits from the profits to be made.There are also many companies who profit off of the prison industrial system. I would like to include references that cite the specific corporations invested in the growth of PICs. I would also correct the wording and grammatically errors/awkward phrasing that occurs throughout the paragraph.

References

a. Masked Racism: Reflections on the Prison Industrial Complex, www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/davisprison.html. Accessed 19 Sept. 2017

b. “Who's Getting Rich off the Prison-Industrial Complex?” Vice, 17 May 2013, www.vice.com/en_us/article/mvpzkp/whos-getting-rich-off-the-prison-industrial-complex. Accessed 1 Oct. 2017.

V. Implications/Agenda

I would like to add in this section in order to reference the effects of PICs on society, specifically the detrimental effects regarding various ethnic groups. This section will include information about mass incarceration of African-Americans males and impact that their detention rate has on communities, racial inequality in the United States criminal justice system, and other factors affecting incarceration rates.

References

a. Thompson, Heather Ann. "Why Mass Incarceration Matters: Rethinking Crisis, Decline, and Transformation in Postwar American History." The Journal of American History, vol. 97, no. 3, Dec. 2010. JSTOR.

b. Roberts, Dorothy E., "The Social and Moral Cost of Mass Incarceration in African American Communities" (2004). Faculty Scholarship. Paper 583

c. Forman, James Jr, "RACIAL CRITIQUES OF MASS INCARCERATION: BEYOND THE NEW JIM CROW" (2012). Faculty Scholarship Series. Paper 3599.

VI. Immigration

a. The immigration section of this article spends a lot of emphasis on the fiscal budget increases to the INS (Immigration and Naturalization Service) as well as includes somewhat irrelevant information regarding the treatment of immigrants while they await administrative hearings. The paragraph also includes information about how the budget increases for ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) have doubled. I would like to remove some of the information in this section because it has no connection to the Prison-Industrial Complex. I also think that some sentences regarding budget could go under the section relating to Economics where I would explain how the ICE and INS have a vested interest in PICs.

References

a. Roxanne Lynne Doty, Elizabeth Shannon Wheatley; Private Detention and the Immigration Industrial Complex, International Political Sociology, Volume 7, Issue 4, 1 December 2013, Pages 426–443

V. Immigration

The last paragraph concerns the yearly revenue that comes from immigrant detention centers and how this revenue has developed into a critical part of the economy in the Southwestern United States. I believe that this information belongs in the article and ties into the multifaceted structure of PICs more than information in this section concerning immigrant treatment and abuse, which can be seen as promoting a biased view. I would reword these sentences to shift the focus to the perceived relationship between immigration and crime, linking the Wikipedia article, “Immigration and crime”

References

a. Camarota, Steven A. , and Jessica M. Vaughan. “Immigration and Crime: Assessing a Conflicted Issue.” Center for Immigration Studies, Nov. 2009, pp. 1–32.

VII. Response/Solutions/Reform

I think that specific events in response to the implementation of PICs should be grouped into one topic under the category of response to the issue.

School-to-prison pipeline: This section needs grammatical work and wording corrections. The section also references that there has been a recent trend of articles that describe the school-to-prison pipeline as contributing and feeding into PICs but cites zero sources for this claim and does not explain the any of the references. I would add more information concerning in what ways school-to-prison pipelines play a role in supporting PICs and include methods to counteract their impact and effect in regard to juvenile detention rates.

References

a. “The School-to-Prison Pipeline.” Teaching Tolerance, 8 Aug. 2017, www.tolerance.org/magazine/spring-2013/the-schooltoprison-pipeline. Accessed 2 Oct. 2017. 2. Libby Nelson & Dara Lind Published: February 24, 2015. “The school to prison pipeline, explained.” The school to prison pipeline, explained — Justice Policy Institute, www.justicepolicy.org/news/8775. Accessed 2 Oct. 2017.

Contributions to Talk pages

Please don't forget to sign your contributions to Talk pages DStrassmann (talk) 14:33, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Peer Review

Your article was actually incredible. For such a tough, very nuanced, and complex subject, you made it very comprehensive and easily understandable for me and non - experts alike. This phrase “desire for monetary gain through prison privatization had led to the vast growth of the prison industry and contributed to the number of incarcerated individuals” summarizes the social phenomenon very well. Your history section is my favorite part because it shows how the passing of mandatory minimum sentencing laws and Bill Clinton’s Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act encouraged the cycle of the profit seeking nature of the private prisons in America. Also, I think the details have the economics work in the PIC, in terms of economy of scale, marginal costs etc. provide a basic and helpful contextualization of the PIC. It gives it a tangible feel because sometimes such phenomenon can feel very abstract.

First off, it’s hard for me to recommend certain changes because the article is really so well done. But I think it would be interesting for you to include more perspectives from proponents of private prisons. Are there any positive outlooks? Does anyone actually believe that the idea of punishment over rehabilitation is more effective? You could briefly mention this perspective and provide some information behind what underpins such a belief. Also, I think the reform section could be added to. You can include potential policy proposals that organizations have tried to get to congress. You could also detail the obstacles these grass root organizations face. What’re they up against (lobbyists, big money backing big companies)? You could also add something about the experiences of ex- cons. Did they feel that the work they did in the prisons helped/ hurt them in terms of rejoining society? Lastly, I think the section about the school to prison pipeline is a really interesting topic, and if you have time, merits more discussion. Could this school to prison pipeline be part of the plan of abolishing the PIC?

The most important things I think you should do to improve your article is to just keep up with the great work you have done, and add more perspectives to the topic. I think it would add to the intrigue of the topic as whole if you include some people who value the PIC and contrast that with those who believe it is purely a profit seeking enterprise. The reform section I think is crucial. Add some information about strategies (marches, protests, policy proposals) that are going on to combat the PIC. Lastly, I think the school- to prison pipeline is really interesting as well. One of the questions that popped into my head as I was reading was whether or not high schools could serve as the foundation to transition of a society of punishment to a society of rehabilitation? Better schools leads to better education which leads to better jobs, and maybe will counteract the incidence of crime. An analysis of the structural inequalities (poor neighborhoods with poor education systems is highly correlated with crime rates) would prove helpful as well. Lastly, you mentioned on your user page about how PIC affects minority groups disproportionately. I think this could fit in well with a discussion of structural inequality. Your article is so good though. Keep up the good work. Dmazero (talk) 17:47, 27 October 2017 (UTC)Dmazero

Peer Review

The article does a good job at providing the reader with an overview of the topic! I think that the edits to made to the lead were helpful in making it sound more neutral, and that sections you added helped to provide the reader with a deeper understanding. But I think that adding one for sentence on the point of view of those that think the PIC is a positive to society. Just a thought: I have read about PIC being used in the UK. Adding a section about the other countries might also be helpful to expand the reach of the article. I recognize that neutral point of view may be difficult balance, because most of the research I’ve also seen connects the PIC with negative impacts for the prison population. So, I think minor additions to the lead can go a long way to balance the points of view. Good job so far! Let me know if you have any questions! Cbadillo29 (talk) 23:53, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Peer Review of Initial Contribution to Article

The development of this article so far has been well executed. The edits to existing material and structure has made the article a lot more comphresensive and allows it to flow logically. Overall the explanations of historical development, implications and responses to the prison industrial complex allows new readers to gauge an understanding of what the term actually refers to. The content is written from a neutral point of view and is for the most part backed up by reputable sources (just be sure to have a source after every claim not just at the end of a paragraph). Going forward my one suggestion is to better develop the ideologies and rationale behind the historical development of mass incarceration and the subsequent prison industry complex. Topics such as the classical approach to criminological theory and explaining mass incarceration in general may help you to do this. Consider adding a section titled “Views that contributed to the prison industrial complex” or something of the sort. Overall, great job! This is a topic that’s super interesting to me so I’m glad you’re developing it. GHumphrey97 (talk) 17:06, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Template removal

Based on the myriad new additions over the last few weeks along with the comments directly above, I believe the removal of the template at the top of the page is now justified.--C.J. Griffin (talk) 18:10, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Prison-Industrial Complex Suggestions

I feel that this wiki page is very good and thorough though it does seem bias towards ending privatization of prisons.The section entitled "Economics," discusses how prisoners are exposed to toxic chemicals, and although it is very interesting and important to note perhaps it could fit into another section. In the section entitled "Immigration" it mentions how 12 million total undocumented immigrants are in the United States, yet it seems almost out of place. Consider adding how many of the undocumented immigrants are detained in the U.S. and/or how the number has risen despite attempts to detain them. Also this fact is from 2009 so I would suggest updating the numbers as they must have increased by now. The last suggestion I have is to mention alternatives to detention in either reform, immigration or have it be its own section. The pros and cons of alternatives to detention/imprisonment should also note who it will benefit/profit and possible success rates in being implemented.--Aabifarah (talk) 23:35, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Thank you so much for the suggestions. As I continue my edits, I will keep your feedback in mind. I agree that the mention of prisoners exposed to toxic chemicals seems out of place in the Economics section. I also will be sure to include studies and opinions of many different articles that reflect both sides of the debate regarding privatization of prisons.I agree wholeheartedly with your suggestions for the Immigration section and want to include research that reflects more relevant information as I edit. Kylaj (talk) 02:05, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Prison Industrial Complex Various Suggestions

This article is very well-versed and detailed! However, a few improvements could be made:

1. In regards to the "Reform" heading: there is opportunity for much more information to be added on this topic. There are numerous current projects, campaigns, and activists in this realm who are not mentioned under this heading. The movements mentioned are also outdated. "Prison Abolition Movement" is not updated with where the movement is now in 2017; the citation about it is from 2000. The second (and final) point in this heading is "School-to-prison Pipeline Reform," however this is also not updated, with one of the citations from 2003. Both sub-points are very sparse and lack detailed information about what reform work is being currently done or has been done in the past few years. There are also only two points mentioned and no mention of additional reform projects—whether they be documentaries, books, campaigns, projects, etc. Thus, I suggest this heading be updated but also significantly elaborated on.

2. It may be noteworthy to add a heading discussing "Guantanamo Bay" and how this prison/controversial topic relates to the prison industrial complex. This is a very politicized center/project that has recieved global criticism and it may be interesting to discuss it and its implications on the greater concept of US prisons (and how it relates to the PIC).

3. Many of the citations seem outdated and the article lacks more relevant information. Only 28% of the citations are from the current year 2017. Because this issue is so relevant, there should be more (or at least an equal) amount of emphasis on the current developments regarding the PIC (in balance with the past information stated).

Shafeenp (talk) 03:21, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your suggestions. I agree that there is a lot more work to be done in regards to updating this article to reflect more current and relevant information and projects. As I work my way down towards the Reform section, I will be sure to include and highlight some recent developments in this subject area. I would love to research and include a discussion of Guantanamo Bay perhaps under another subsection that references Global Impacts. Again, thank you so much for the response. Kylaj (talk) 02:08, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

• • • I've moved the GA template up above in hopes of this getting more easily noticed. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 13:41, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Kylaj (talk) 01:12, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

• Hi Kylaj, are you still interested in working on this as a GA nomination? Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 22:09, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

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Tough sledding

I've been trying to neutralize the wording in this article, but having arrived at the Prison labor section, I realize it's going to require a lot of pruning. Here, long-time radicals such as Angela Davis and Linda Evans are used as if they were scholarly reliable sources. Another more built-in problem with the article is that, like the phrase itself, it tries to encompass many quite different things. Companies that sell products to prisons, companies that own and/or run prisons, companies that use prison labor for "outside" products, prison labor for goods and service used in the prisons, and vocational programs. Goodtablemanners (talk) 17:45, 2 June 2021 (UTC)