Talk:Meetup: Difference between revisions

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Price for WeWork sale

I realize the source mentions a 200 million figure in the headline, but headlines simplify out of context. They are usually not reliable article content. The main article clearly includes a disclaimer that this value is not a verifiable fact. The anonymous source does not verify the company's price for a specific buyer in a specific situation by the way, but estimates its general value for a potential buyer. In short: such values are little more than rumors and can't be taken as actual price tags, unless they can be verified by an acknowledged expert as a qualified estimate or the company itself as publicly announced information. GermanJoe (talk) 14:59, 30 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. The $200 million number is a correct estimation, but Meetup/WeWork never publicly disclosed the exact number. I'm not aware of any better sources that would address your concerns. Kristin hodgson at meetup (talk) 16:07, 31 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If the price is not clearly verifiable, it can't be added (imo). But it's not a big issue anyway - interested readers can easily access additional details in the source article. GermanJoe (talk) 16:22, 31 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Suggesting a new draft

Hello, I have prepared a draft of proposed new content for the Meetup page. I hope this is a starting point for a more comprehensive article with proper sourcing. The current Meetup article is incomplete and has random information without a historical narrative. I hope some independent editors will take the time to review and provide feedback, or consider it as a replacement. You'll notice this is a warts-and-all draft that includes both Meetup's successes, and the more challenging moments in the company's history. I've made every effort to be neutral and objective when preparing this. Kristin hodgson at meetup (talk) 13:29, 3 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think this draft is a far more articulate article that the current one. On first blush most references seem good. It's probably a little too fluffy still. :) I appreciate the effort by a paid editor to work within our community in a respectable manner. Ckoerner (talk)

@Ckoerner: Hi. Thanks so much for taking a look, and for your comment. Do you think the draft is an improvement that's ready to be published as an article, or do you have more feedback to share? I noticed @Audacity: recently made edits to the page. Maybe they would chime in on the draft?Kristin hodgson at meetup (talk) 19:42, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kristin! Thanks for your feedback request. The draft looks pretty good to me - you've done a great job of inline sourcing. I agree with Ckoerner that it's still a bit "fluffy" though; for example, "After the fee was incorporated, traffic on Meetup dropped 95%, but rebounded over time." and "The website was redesigned in 2013 with fewer features and a simpler design for mobile devices." Although true, these facts seem more to be "telling the story of Meetup" than presenting an encylopedic overview.

I think we can continue to work on this draft and then merge it with the current article. Cheers, Λυδ α cιτγ 02:30, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the feedback @Audacity: @Ckoerner:. I edited the draft with your notes in mind. Let me know if you have additional feedback. Hopefully other editors will continue to improve it, as well.Kristin hodgson at meetup (talk) 15:15, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi everyone. Thank you for all your feedback on the page. It seems we all agree that this revision is better than what currently exists on the Meetup page, so I moved it into article space. Please let me know if this is an issue or it needs more improvement.Kristin hodgson at meetup (talk) 17:36, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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 Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 19:07, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
-== Not supported by the cited source ==
-{{request edit|A}} I'm requesting that someone remove the uncited text, specifically: “lacking the funds necessary to compete against rising competition.”
-I cannot find anything in the cited source [https://www.wired.com/story/why-wework-is-buying-meetup/] to support this: “lacking the funds necessary to compete against rising competition.” [[User:Kristin hodgson at meetup|Kristin hodgson at meetup]] ([[User talk:Kristin hodgson at meetup|talk]]) 12:53, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
-===Reply 21-JUN-2018===
-{{approved}} The COI editor is correct in that the presently worded claim statement mischaracterizes the need of the company for cash as a sole reason for the sale (along with declining usage) by stating the company "lacked funds necessary to stay independent." The cited source states:<blockquote>This past summer, he began speaking to investors to raise money. In light of the urgent need for Meetups, he explained, he endeavored to grow Meetup to a billion members. Pronto. Investment opportunities gave way to multiple acquisition offers from what Heiferman calls 'the usual suspects' — and an invitation to meet from an unusual suspect: Neumann. Over a month of meetings that included a late-night ramble through Manhattan, they hit upon a strategy that would allow Meetup to remain independent, just as Instagram had at Facebook, or Waze had at Google, while benefitting from WeWork’s cash, resources, space, and ambition.</blockquote> The article states that funding was part and parcel of an overall state of affairs inherent to the rubric of free-market economies, whereby competition is a necessary component and where institutional demands, based in part on access to funds, vary from year to year (i.e., Facebook re-doubling efforts to focus in the same area as the subject company) and can be cumulative (as demonstrated by the many sources cited regarding the company's decline in users over time). The claim statement mentioning ''only'' a lack of funds implies that this was the sole component leading to the sale. Notwithstanding the fact that any sale of a business involves a need for access to funds (on the part of both seller and buyer) making special effort to mention this detail seems to limit the breadth of the information originating from the cited source. Unless the article wishes to elaborate upon every salient reason why the sale was conducted, including only one reason and not the others seems arbitrarily restrictive. The company's lack of users seems sufficient enough reason to be given here, (considering its numerous references).
-[[WP:IMPARTIAL]] states that "Even where a topic is presented in terms of facts rather than opinions, inappropriate tone can be introduced through the way in which facts are selected, presented, or organized." By hammering home the point that the company lacked funds, the article strays into an arena of impartiality, by implying that not having large amounts of cash on hand during a time of reduced user numbers represents some sort of moral failure on the part of the company - since the previous version of wording from the Wikipedia article did ''not'' include information given in that same source that the company's leadership attempted to ''prevent'' this from happening. For these reasons, I believe that the eventuality of losing money in situations where users decline is a given, and that the lack of funds need not be ''additionally'' mentioned after already stating the "decline in usage". Stating that the company ran out users ''and'' ran out of money appears to double the size of the company's missteps, when it may be more accurate to describe the company's loss of users as one misstep with many different consequences - the loss of investment funds being only one of them. Characterizing it as two mistakes instead of one seems to be unnecessarily critical of the company (even if unintentionally so). The claim was thus omitted. '''<span style="font-size:80%;border:2px solid red;border-radius:50px;font-color:#00008b">[[User:Spintendo|<span style="color:#00008b;font-variant:small-caps">&nbsp;spintendo&nbsp;</span>]]</span>''' 16:15, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
-:I agree with {{ping|Spintendo}}'s rationale to rephrase this problematic sentence and have re-added the valid change (no "proxy editing" here as alleged in the ad-hominem edit summary). Of course further discussion to improve the phrasing based on explicit facts from independent secondary sources is welcome. [[User:GermanJoe|GermanJoe]] ([[User talk:GermanJoe|talk]]) 22:44, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
-::I third this sensible request. I've reverted IP editors twice now, each time asking them to participate in conversation here on the talk page. At this point I've requested semi-protection for the page as I'm at a loss on what else to do. [[User:Ckoerner|Ckoerner]] ([[User talk:Ckoerner|talk]]) 18:11, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
 == Price for WeWork sale ==