Talk:Afghanistan

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 August 2018 and 22 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Zach4596 (article contribs). This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2018 and 22 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Bwiffen1234 (article contribs).

Ongoing political changes in Afghanistan

Currently the Taliban are looking more and more likely to take control of the country. If so, will we be changing this page to reflect these changes when they occur or will we wait for UN recognition, if that ever happens. Thanks. Kappasi (talk) 04:08, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

I think we should change the page to reflect the changes as they occur- hypothetically even if the Taliban government isn't recognized they still would de facto be the government of Afghanistan and if the reliable sources are there we should update the page. Danre98^{(talk^contribs)} 15:26, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

How long the lead should be?

It's tagged as too long, but look at the size of the page. MOS:LEAD is okay with proportionate leads like this one. Nowearskirts (talk) 06:21, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

The lead is a bit too long, but more significantly is disproportionately dedicated to summarising the History section, with three paragraphs dedicated to one of eight article sections. Cut that down to a more appropriate paragraph, and there is even room for a bit more expansion. CMD (talk) 07:21, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Languages Graph

The graph showing the percent of speakers of the various languages of Afghanistan (based off the CIA factbook source, numbered as 7 currently) is incorrect. It currently shows 78% of Afghans speaking Pashto and 50% speaking Dari Persian, whereas the quoted source shows the opposite.

So….will there be a separate page for “Islamic Republic of Afghanistan” to represent this government in past tense, OR will this page be renamed that and the “Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan” page is renamed to “Afghanistan” and merged with info from this one and the Taliban page since it’s the same government as the 90s one.

Title. Which order are we doing this in?

Also, just for the record, I say we treat the 1996-2001 Islamic Emirate as the same government as the one that’s about to be restored to power, and just show they were out of power from 2002-2021. Like in that part of the info bar it’s “1996-2001, 2021-present”, and we treat it as one continuous entity that was outed from power only to take it back once the civil war ended.

• I think we need to split this page. One which will be called “Islamic Republic of Afghanistan” which will be a historic article covering the history of the country from 2001 to 2021, and one called “Afghanistan” which will be the main article for the country and the texts will read “Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan” with the Taliban flag after Kabul is surrendered. The already-existing article for the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan in the late 90s should be renamed to Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (1996–2001). The 20-year gap is way too long to use that article for the main country. ArabMan719 (talk) 11:26, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:31C8:9F3C:4939:FFA3 (talk) 15:21, 15 August 2021 (UTC) It is the same continuous entity though. The Taliban is the 96-2001 Emirate, and the Taliban is what’s about to take power. They never stopped calling themselves the Islamic Emirate.

That's asinine. Make Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (1996-2001) then Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (2021-present) for this one. That is the truth, IP alphabet soup. 2604:3D09:37F:E110:2892:4C59:67D0:B1CC (talk) 23:17, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

It’s kinda like if Taiwan suddenly retook all of China. Would we call them the same entity as the pre-49 Republic of China?

Keep the page and change the details to the new Emirate, create a new article titled Islamic Republic of Afghanistan (2001-2021) Sgnpkd (talk) 17:05, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Call for consensus on describing the state as the "Islamic Emirate" of Afghanistan

Given the rapid pace of the chaotic retreat of western forces from Afghanistan, and the ensuing collapse of the western-backed government security forces, it now seems likely that there will be a full Taliban takeover of the country. Without getting into WP:CRYSTAL territory, I thought it'd be a good idea to get a sense of what consensus should be on using the taliban's name for Afghanistan - namely the "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan". In particular, should there be

1. . No mention of the new regime
2. . Mention the regime, but in self-source or "scare quote" format
3. . Describe the state as the islamic emirate
4. . other

69.172.145.94 (talk) 05:15, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:31C8:9F3C:4939:FFA3 (talk) 07:01, 15 August 2021 (UTC) Treat this as the same entity as the 1996-2001 ruling Emirate and the 2002-2021 Emirate during the civil war that we called the Taliban. Give a separate page for the former “Islamic Republic” that will shortly be in exile.

@2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:31C8:9F3C:4939:FFA3:, I do see that as a possibility - however given that this entity is unlikely to have widespread political recognition - one wonders if it'll end up in the same limbo as Taiwan - a de-facto state that nobody relevant recognizes. Wording may have to be added, and possibly this article added to the category on partially recognized states. 69.172.145.94 (talk) 07:24, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

The previous government is a de-jure only. Afghanistan has been captured completely by the Taliban, therefore it sets the rule. This includes the flag, and the government structure. As an Encyclopedia, we must refelct the current situation, regardless what we believe is right.--Exx8 (talk) 08:41, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

While the IEA appears, per RS, to be in de facto control of the whole of the country outside a small section of central Kabul, events are too fluid. That said, I would support removing "officially the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan" from the lead and replacing "Islamic Republic of Afghanistan" in the infobox with just "Afghanistan". Chetsford (talk) 09:21, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

I think the page should be changed/reflect the Islamic Emirate of Afganistan in the following days as the Taliban declares its victory and the various countries begin to recognize the Emirate which should happen very quickly Jibran1998 (talk) 10:37, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Let's wait to see what happens in Kabul. Ghani is still president for now. We will likely know more very soon. On Wikipedia, we don't lead the sources, we trail them. ― Tartan357 ^Talk 10:42, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Tartan357, I agree with you Jibran1998 (talk) 11:18, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

This is inherently WP:CRYSTAL territory. We shouldn't call it anything until RSs start doing so - then we go with them. — Czello 11:26, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

• If the capital is surrendered and a new country forms, I think we need to split this page. One which will be called “Islamic Republic of Afghanistan” which will be a historic article covering the history of the country from 2001 to 2021, and one called “Afghanistan” which will be the main article for the country and the texts will read “Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan” with the Taliban flag after Kabul is surrendered. The already-existing article for the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan in the late 90s should be renamed to Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (1996–2001). The 20-year gap is way too long to use that article for the main country. ArabMan719 (talk) 11:26, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
• Ghani has now agreed to step down and talks have been announced over the creation of a Taliban-led transition government. It's likely we will get an official announcement later today or tomorrow. I think we should leave the article as is until an official announcement, given that the timeframe likely won't be long, so we can immediately put the details of this new government into the Infobox. At that stage we should call it the "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan" in this article's intro and rename the current Islamic Emirate article into "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (1996-2001)" as the user above suggested.--RM (Be my friend) 11:49, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

  Do you have evidence for your claim that Ghani has now agreed to step down? ― Tartan357 ^Talk 11:51, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

  It's been widely reported in the media.--RM (Be my friend) 14:31, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

• I agree that the flag and name of the country on this page should be changed to correspond to that of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. This page should be for the current rulers of Afghanistan. Another page should be made for the Afghanistan that is about to cease to exist, similar to how there's been a separate one for the former IEA. SpicyBiryani (talk) 12:06, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

• They're not the current rulers of Afghanistan, though. Given that there's going to be a transitional government, we're not entirely sure when they will be the rulers. Even then, we don't add their old flags/names until they do. It's speculative and WP:CRYSTAL to change it at this point. — Czello 14:35, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

I agree we should hold off on changing the flag or name until we get something official but de facto they are the rulers of Afghanistan. The recognized Afghan government has fallen apart and President Ghani has fled the country.--RM (Be my friend) 16:05, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

De facto they may be, but de jure they're not (yet). Unless we get into a discussion about listing both in the infobox then I think it's too soon. — Czello 16:07, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Welp given that Kabul has fallen and president Ashraf Ghani and his staff have fled the country, it's clear that the IR afghanistan is now a state in name only. 69.172.145.94 (talk) 16:38, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

The article should be definitely changed to reflect the fact that the Taliban is now ruling the country. Make this page a historical record of the Islamic republic and create a new one called “Afghanistan” but with “Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan” in the description and flag changes, etc. BakedGoods357 (talk) 18:16, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

I think it's a bit too soon to make changes to the flag, name, etc. All we know for certain is that an interim government is being formed; as of now, Afghanistan isn't under a de jure Taliban government. I agree with Czello. Piyo99 (talk) 23:54, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Taliban take entire country

How do we rewrite this article? Taliban have now taken Kabul and are agreeing with the govt a "peaceful takeover" National anthem will be removed as music would be banned, and would probably become an Islamic Emirate. The incumbent president Ghani has been forced to leave the country and media outlets are assuming the interim president will be Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, which is actually looking likely as reports he is being flown to Kabul. I did attempt an edit but it was reverted. Eck (talk) 13:44, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

We wait for WP:Reliable sources to specifically note various items, such as for example if the anthem is removed, the various political positions, and then reflect those sources. CMD (talk) 13:58, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Going off the last time the Taliban were in power from 96 to 01 they banned all music and had no anthem so it isn't entirely a leap. Eck (talk) 14:14, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Yeah but its been almost 20 years since they last ruled, we can't be sure of how they'll behave now. Best to wait and see what they do.--RM (Be my friend) 14:33, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

See also this talk page - Talk:Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan#Rename page to “Afghanistan”, merge with Taliban, and rename current Afghanistan article to “Islamic Republic of Afghanistan”Manabimasu (talk) 15:49, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Ashraf Ghani

Reliable sources state that Ghani has fled the country. Why is he still listed as president? He clearly is no longer in power. Perhaps the position in the info bar should read, “unknown” or “disputed” or “vacant”. I’m retired from editing pages, but I feel for accuracy, this should be addressed. Thanks. Juneau Mike (talk) 16:05, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Leaving the country doesn't stop him from being President or still giving orders. Even though he may not be in Afghanistan anymore, plenty of people and governments see him as the President. WP needs relivable sources before it changes something like this ThinkingTwice ^{contribs | talk} 16:14, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

When should the switch be made?

With the fall of Kabul and Ghani leaving the country, “transition of power” is already very much floating out there. The IR is de facto no longer in control of most of the country and I imagine will probably be limited to a few towns and cities the Taliban hasn’t gotten around to driving over to yet by the time I wake up in a few hours. When should the article be updated to reflect that - when the old government recognizes it (if ever), or when they declare it (in a couple hours max), or something else? Juxlos (talk) 16:58, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Switching to IEA

Hi folks,

The Taliban claim they will soon declare an Islamic Emirate of Afganistan (https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/aug/15/afghanistan-taliban-close-in-on-kabul-as-last-government-stronghold-in-north-falls), when this declaration is made, I think that as they have de-facto control of the entire country we should then switch the article.

What do other folks think about this?

Following on from that, I'd also like to open a discussion about how to switch the article, I'm thinking:

1. Start a new article for the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan which was in power up to the end of today

2. Edit this article to refer to the IEA that the Taliban are expected to declare

Is there any other cleanup we'll need to do?

All views appreciated :)

IntUnderflow (talk) 17:09, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

IntUnderflow I think an article for Afghanistan during the first two decades of the 21st century makes sense but it should probably be made as a draft to start with to preserve older information and only be realised into the main space as sections of this article substantially change. As for developing this article, the history section should in my view be updated first and other sections can be changed to reflect the new situation as it becomes more clear. Llewee (talk) 17:19, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Hey folks, I've started forking this Article to describe the (soon to be former) country in Draft:Islamic Republic of Afghanistan (2001–2021), please join me there if you'd like to help build out a new article on the country from 2001 to 2021 :)

IntUnderflow (talk) 17:27, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

I think that's a good way of dealing with it, though we should still adhere to WP:CRYSTAL. When WP:RS say that there is a new government, then the article may be updated to reflect that and the draft could be moved to mainspace. Gust Justice (talk) 17:32, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

I agree with that, I think since the writing appears to be on the wall the current draft is just a good space for us to get an article up to scratch and ready to go in the likely (but not confirmed hence not in mainspace) event that the current government ends today or in the next few days 👍 IntUnderflow (talk) 17:36, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 August 2021

Change the "Government" section in the infobox to "Taliban-led provisional government." Yaqubrolliyah (talk) 17:38, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:00, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 August 2021 (2)

Afghanistan has fallen and the president has fled the country. its not reflected in the article yet. Weezer1996 (talk) 17:51, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:00, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

"This article's lead section may be too long for the length of the article"

The lead section is standard for an article about a nation. The template should be removed. Lochglasgowstrathyre (talk) 18:17, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Lead trimed as per #How long the lead should be?.--Moxy- 18:34, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Should the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan be treated as a continuous entity from 1996, or treated like two separate things.

This seems to be a big topic of debate at the moment, so let me state the cases.

The case for treating them separately is it reduces the clutter of sorting it all, allows finding specific points in time easier, and would probably be easier on the editors.

The case against is that the Islamic Emirate never ended. It’s been the same continuous organization since 1996, they just lost power for a while. Putting aside modern thinking and looking at this from a historic perspective, the War in Afghanistan was a civil war, where the ruling Emirate temporarily lost power in the capital, but eventually retook their control. We don’t treat Assad after making a comeback from the brink as a separate entity.

I get it would require a bit more work, but I am fully of the belief that treating them as the same entity, and giving them one page, would be the wisest from a historic perspective. Perhaps marking the section on the government in three phases,, Pre-Intervention Era(Inheriting from the Islamic Emirate page governance sectionnow) Insurgency(inheriting from the Taliban governance section) and then post return to be written soon. Perhaps marking the infobox of Afghanistan with “1996-2001, 2021-present”, both denoting it’s the same entity, and that they lost central power for a while.

2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:31C8:9F3C:4939:FFA3 (talk) 18:41, 15 August 2021 (UTC) TLDR, while it’s awkward in a current perspective, with the premature victory and the war predating Wikipedia, from a zoomed out historical perspective, there was a 20 year long civil war with foreign intervention where the government that existed previously eventually won after many temporary bumps and losses along the way. The Islamic Republic never won, they held power in the capital for 19 years during a civil war. The Islamic Emirate was there at the start, and eventually won said civil war. No break in continuity as an organization. Thereby, the 1996 Emirate and the one about to retake Kabul, are the same entity, and should be treated as such.

I take the new Taliban as a more 'westernized' Taliban, hoping that they'll take in considerable lessons from the 20 years they've been out of government power.--RazorTheDJ (talk) 19:02, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

I agree too. They should be treated as separate entities considering the gap here is significant (20 years) and most of the previous IEA leaders are probably dead. Kamikazechaser (talk) 19:07, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Slight changes in policy are not enough to make current IEA an entirely separate entity

I don't see an easy way to bridge the 1996-2001 IEA and the 2021 IEA without making a complete mess of the Wikipedia page. For one, the 1996-2001 IEA page is kind of short, presumably due to the lack of internet and coherent history during that period in Afghanistan. The 2021 IEA page will be much longer due to the heightened availibilty of information. Trying to merge the two would make a page that appears disproportianately in favor of the 2021 IEA. And they are two different regimes, with different people involved. Even if they do have similar policies, they are fundementally two distinct entities. Although know that I think about this more, this is like the Ship of Theseus. Nmurali02 (talk) 19:51, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:31C8:9F3C:4939:FFA3 (talk) 20:03, 15 August 2021 (UTC) Except it isn’t two different entities, it’s one entity that fought a civil war for 20 years, and despite massive setbacks and losing the capital for a while, won the civil war. That’s what happened from a zoomed out perspective. The timeline is longer, but other examples of the same thing have happened and we treat those as the same entity. Make the right call.

2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:31C8:9F3C:4939:FFA3 (talk) 20:06, 15 August 2021 (UTC) The gap is bridged by the Islamic Emirates existence from 2001-2021, as the Taliban. Treating those separate made sense when it looked like they were gone for good, but now……..

There is one Emirate of Afghanistan. They ruled the country from 1996-2001, fought a civil war from 2001-2021 where they lost control of the capital for a while to the republic, and then won the civil war in 2021. It’s all one thing.

I think we need a new article. There is an article on the Taliban, going over the group's entire history. Then there is the Islamic Emirater article and the Taliban insurgency, going over those two stages of the group's history. I think we should have a new article for the third. Danre98^{(talk^contribs)} 20:28, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan should be treated as one entity. They were in a 20 year civil war so it wasn’t the end more like an underground government.Manabimasu (talk) 20:51, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

My proposal:

• Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan as a single article for the Taliban government, including both the period up to 2001 and 2021-present
• Islamic Republic of Afghanistan as the 2004-2021 state
• Afghanistan article should be about the culture+nation+history of Afghanistan rather than any particular government. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 21:10, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

  Yes, this seems sensible. This article here is about the country Afghanistan, which hasn't become defunct, and existed both before the Taliban and since. There is no need to wholesale replace this. History, Geography, Demographics etc is unchanged. The politics and government section will change drastically, and more specific details on the two different states can be at the two pages mentioned above. Also there's no need to split the Islamic Emirate into two. It's the same thing, and never ceased to exist, it has been fighting an insurgency throughout the 20 years.  — Amakuru (talk) 21:29, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:31C8:9F3C:4939:FFA3 (talk) 22:14, 15 August 2021 (UTC) I agree with Chessrat, except I’d also like to say that the Islamic Emirate’s period during the civil war from 2001-2021 should be counted too. Governing was going on, especially during the later years. Perhaps mention that they considered surrender, got turned down, and slowly began rebuilding to eventually start taking back the cities. Again, one consistent and continuous entity from 1996-the present, it’s clear that’s the case now that we have the war at an end.

2604:3D09:1F80:CA00:31C8:9F3C:4939:FFA3 (talk) 22:31, 15 August 2021 (UTC) One other thing. Both the Emirate and Republic articles should ease up the “won” or “ceased to exist” type language to fact the ultimate reality of the civil war more apparent.

The Emirate page should, instead of saying they effectively ceased to exist in December 2001, say they were effectively forced out of governance and left only ruling small rural clusters in the south, but managed to hold on and avoid being completely wiped out.” And then go in to talk abo it how they gradually reclaimed more and more rural territory as US support died down, especially in the mid to late 2010s as Operation Enduring Freedom ended, culminating in their reconquest of the cities, ending the civil war and regaining their control of the country.

The Republic page should mention that, while they were able to effectively rule the cities by the end of 2001, they were never able to fully defeat the Emirate, and gradually lost control of the rural areas as the civil war dragged on, culminating in the Emirate returning to the cities, ultimately defeating the Republic and ending the civil war.

Keeping the language consistent is important. The Republic never ‘’won’’, despite how it looked at the time. The Emirate never ceased to exist, they just retreated to the rural areas in the south just as the Muhajadeen did in the 80s.

Comment The old form of the China article is a useful outline for an article on a country whose government is disputed. May be handy here. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 22:56, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Afgani flag removed

As per live footage from Al Jazeera, the Afgani flag has been removed from the presidential palace by a Taliban fighter probably to raise the Taliban flag --RazorTheDJ (talk) 18:58, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Its Afghan flag and second any changes must come after the Declaration and recognition of the Islamic Emirate as it will be reported by sources Jibran1998 (talk) 19:18, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Here we can see how the Taliban flag has been raised at the Ghazni provincial governor's house: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/claudiakoerner/taliban-afghanistan-biden Salvabl (talk) 20:28, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

cHANGE ARTICLE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its OUTDATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 190.192.243.51 (talk) 21:26, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

The Taliban flag is already being used in border crossings to represent Afghanistan and in cities under Taliban control. It is the de facto flag over most of Afghanistan except the very few towns still controlled by anti-taliban militias. It only makes sense to have it on the article. Brother Jerome (talk) 23:07, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 August 2021 (3)

The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, Major changes to the page and everything. Wavin1979 (talk) 21:34, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. BSMRD (talk) 21:38, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

This article should be merged into the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan

The Taliban seized Kabul and are soon going to declare the formation of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. Not only that, but they've taken control of most of the country. Afghan President left the country and is in exile. Taliban in control of the Presidential Palace. It's increasingly clear that they're the primary authority in Afghanistan and will soon become the legal authority. This article needs a merge. The flag should also be updated to the flag of the Taliban. I am very saddened that I am have to say this, but it is what it is, I suppose. BurritoQuesadilla (talk) 21:37, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

This article will simply be update when reliable source are shown.....or if a new Constitution is proclaimed. SEE sections above for more details.Moxy- 21:40, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

https://www.businessinsider.com/taliban-victory-in-afghanistan-interim-government-planned-reports-2021-8BurritoQuesadilla (talk) 21:47, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Like Moxy, I think for now it's sufficient to leave it as is, and have the notice that it's involved in a current event. The situation could change rapidly in the coming days. We shouldn't make changes based on speculation. IF the Taliban declares the Emirate or IF they change the flag, we can make the necessary updates, but not before. e^π/💬 21:45, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

The flag has been changed. Everywhere, the Afghan flag is lowered.BurritoQuesadilla (talk) 21:47, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

The IEA now controls over 90% of Afghanistan. Afghanistan is not a disputed territory any more than the now defunct Islamic Republic of Afghanistan was a disputed territory. If anything, Afghanistan is less disputed now, as the grip of the Taliban over the country is already stronger than the republic's ever was. Therefore the IEA article and the Afghanistan article should be merged, to accurately portray who rules over Afghanistan now. Brother Jerome (talk) 23:09, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

I agree with Brother Jerome. Taliban have controlled significant territory for years and the article was never set as disputed. BakedGoods357 (talk) 00:37, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Islamic Republic of Afghanistan (2004-2021)

Hi folks, I (and a few other editors) have created Islamic Republic of Afghanistan (2004–2021) to refer to the former government of Afghanistan as this article now refers to the Islamic Emirate. If you have some free time, feel free to join us in building out this article IntUnderflow (talk) 21:57, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Sounds good.....let's not blank sections here till we have new info on new governing strategy. Like a flag need to wait till we have official announcements.Moxy- 22:34, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Even upon an official announcement, it would be inappropriate to add the Taliban government to the infobox as an undisputed one unless it gains widespread recognition (unlikely). Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 23:52, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

@Chessrat: would it be though? Unrecognized governments get their own undisputed infoboxes all the time. See South Ossetia, Transnistria, Taiwan, Somaliland and others. If the Taliban are the only real government in Afghanistan, they should get the Article. Any insurgencies that dispute that should not change that fact, just as the Taliban did not change that fact before. Serafart (talk) (contributions) 00:29, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

International recognition is important as it drives the reporting of reliable sources- for example, in the case of Crimea, whose article is written neutrally despite the de facto Russian control. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 00:33, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Notably, unlike the examples given by User:Serafart, Crimea is not and did not claim to be an independent country. Rather it is a territory disputed between Russia and Ukraine. BSMRD (talk) 00:40, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

In cases where there are two governments, the one that has control is usually given the article. See Abkhazia v.s. Government of the Autonomous Republic of Abkhazia Serafart (talk) (contributions) 00:43, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

I suppose a better example might be the case of China, which was still considered very much disputed for decades following the Communist takeover of the mainland in 1949- and in fact Wikipedia had the China article as a neutral article rather than one about the People's Republic of China until 2011. The scenarios of Somaliland, Transnistria, etc, are somewhat different as they're not historic nations with a past beyond that of an unrecognized government. For the case of Afghanistan, it certainly makes sense to wait and see what the international community does first- whether a coherent government in exile is formed, what recognition there is, etc. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 01:09, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Flag

The Taliban widely use their flag as a national flag in a way, should that be on this page? --BlinxTheKitty (talk) 22:13, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

​You may mean merging with IEA. We can’t until we have reliable sources.Manabimasu (talk) 22:28, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

I didn't say merge articles, I said add a flag, my point is they widely use their movements flag as a provisional national flag like they did with the IEA in the 90's, I don't mean merge articles --BlinxTheKitty (talk) 22:30, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, the white flag with the shahada has been used continually by the Taliban and is displayed in cities and towns that they control. Brother Jerome (talk) 23:04, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

So no source for any official change as of yet correct?Moxy- 23:27, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

I have seen live footage of a Taliban fighter hoisting the Taliban flag instead of the current one. It was on Al-Jazeera, so I hope it is reliable. But problem is: should we change the Afghan flag to the Taliban's flag or should we wait it out until we reach consensus? Vulcan300 (talk) 23:52, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Has there been an announcement for a new flag....or our we guessing that their flag will be the new flag of the country?Moxy- 23:56, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

They would have no reason to randomly change the flag they used consistently for over 20 years since they first had total control over the control. They have always seen themself as a state instead of a group, which is why they have always referred to themself as IEA. BakedGoods357 (talk) 00:39, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 August 2021

ArthurDjangoek (talk) 00:20, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:22, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Why is the government listed as disputed?

The Taliban has basically full control over the country, the president has fled the country, the government is non existent. BakedGoods357 (talk) 00:28, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

I agree with BakedGoods357, the country is not disputed, it is undeniably under Taliban rule. The page should reflect that. Brother Jerome (talk) 01:20, 16 August 2021 (UTC)