Talk:Atari BASIC

Influence on other BASICs

I've added the removed section and included a ref. for discussion. It would be most helpful to show sources and data to allow this section to stand without dispute. An example would be college curriculum or other training that makes use of the Atari BASIC source code. --Pelladon 21:54, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

You reworded parts of the introduction I wrote[1] because of supposed speculation, which is understandable. However I have strong evidence for this thesis. If I publish, together with a friend of mine (who has also done a lot of research about these things), a short essay on his web page about what we found out, would that be sufficient to include it again? Or is such practice forwned upon? --Rtc 21:33, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

If you have sources, I have no problems with that. I was only putting in info that was verifiable and sourced. I have a lot of info that I cannot include because I can't source it. That's how things work. --Pelladon 21:43, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Do keep in mind, Wikipedia does not condone original research - Wikipedia:No original research --Pelladon 22:22, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I know. But the question was, if it is okay to simply publish it on a web page and then refer to that web page as a source? Perhaps you can do so for your information, too? --Rtc 10:48, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

As long as it's not original research. Best to use a referenced source (original articles and documentation, for example). --Pelladon 19:14, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

It would most certainly be original research to publish it on the web page. Any information has been original research at one point in time. For example Wikipedia is citing academic journals all the time and there is clearly original research going on in there, isn't it? I mean you could refer to the web page then as a source. Why wouldn't that be okay? How exactly do I need to publish it in order for Wikipedia to accept it as not being original research? Or is original research conducted by wikipedians forbidden to be cited in wikipedia? Scientists have to be careful then not to register at Wikipedia if they want their theories being cited here ;) --Rtc 00:24, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Just read this, use it as a guideline, okay? - Wikipedia:No original research. Before you do anything, show the sources so everyone can take a look first. --Pelladon 03:21, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

That doesn't quite answer my question. WP:NOR#The role of expert editors and WP:NOR#What counts as a reputable publication? shows that I'd need to publish my original research thesis in a reputable publication, but it does not say whether a website would be considered a reputable publication. I see websites being used as sources all over the place and most of them are surely personal efforts on some topic to just state obvious views that would otherwise be considered original research. Most if not all of them have not been peer reviewed. Perhaps you know some 8 bit magazine still active today in which I could publish the stuff? Perhaps that might be more considered a reputable publication than some random web site? --Rtc 13:16, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Don't make such a big deal out this, just show the sources first and then take it from there. --Pelladon 15:04, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Please get it: There are no sources I can show, because it is original research. The question is what I can do to make the theory (that is now original research), to be a theory that is not original research in the wikipedia sense. --Rtc 15:18, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Put it in the Atari BASIC discussion page, not on the main page itself. --Pelladon 15:21, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

But the nor policy says "If an expert editor has published the results of his or her research elsewhere, in a reputable publication, the editor can cite that source" but the discussion page is not 'elsewhere' --Rtc 15:27, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

By putting it in the discussion page, this allows others to look at it and give suggestions. Part of the process. Please put the discussions on the appropriate page, not on my home page. Thanks. --Pelladon 15:34, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Not only Wikipedia does not publish original research, it also does not conduct it, according to the WP:NOR policy you directed me to. But "putting it on the discussion page" to allow "others to look at it and give suggestions" would be conducting original research! I see you cannot really help me with the problem. --Rtc 15:41, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

No, it's asking others how to proceed with this. BTW: You still haven't shown anything (source, info) to debate about. --Pelladon 15:57, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

There is no source. The original research information consists of an object code spectral analysis, which can show at least the Frank Ostrowski BASICs (even those for the Atari ST) to use exactly the parser architecture of ATARI BASIC. Since Turbo Basic still uses the file format of ATARI BASIC, the relationship is obvious. Those people with a deep knowledge of M68K GFA BASICs (Atari, Amiga) and its file formats also know that they are basically still intentical in architecture to ATARI BASIC. I am not saying that source code has been copied, but merely the architecture. --Rtc 16:16, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

This is your last warning. Any discussions of Atari BASIC needs to go to the Atari BASIC discussion page, not my home page. --Pelladon 16:23, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Inside Atari DOS

I added a reference to this (webbed) book, which has a brief account of the development of Atari Basic. It conflicts somewhat with the article - for one thing, it says that Atari Basic was spec'ed for 10K, not 8K. Mirror Vax 01:48, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

It could have been Atari giving them (SMI) some leeway in size since Atari themselves were having problems fitting MS Basic into 8K. (Atari originally designed their system with 8K allocated to BASIC, before BASIC was developed). And they needed it fast. All moot of course. --Pelladon 17:05, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Versions

Might help to have a section describing the three versions, Revision A, B and C. Never mind :D --Pelladon

BTW: There's a line stating that Atari BASIC was patterned after Data General's BASIC. Is there any valid source for this info? Since when did Shepardson Microsystems get it inspiration from Data General? BASIC dialects were in the hundreds or more. Thanks. --Pelladon 03:08, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

No, there's a line saying that AB's strings were similar to those DGB, which is an obvious truism. They are also similar to C, for example. This whole article needs a massive re-write. Battling editors have managed to take what was essentially a pared-down version of my AB:GBU article and mangled it into an almost unreadable mess, while misleading the reader that the article is actually taken from other sources. Maury 20:01, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Oops, my bad, I see the reference you're talking about now. Oh well, all fixed now. Maury 21:50, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Wrong information

There are some wrong informations in the article. I don't edit myself because my English is not very good:
In Atari BASIC, "P." does not expand to "PRINT" as the article claims. It expands to "POINT". Probably because "PRINT" has already "?" as abbreviation. "PR." is not much longer anyway.
The strings does not start at "location zero" as the article claims, but at location 1. So no compatibility problems are present because of that.
Two dimensional arrays do exist in Atari BASIC. Although not for strings.
Finally, "INPUT D:" will not input from disk, "INPUT #1" will, if I/O channel 1 is open for disk input.Cyco130 07:55, 30 January 2007 (UTC)