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:{{re|BMB YT 500000}} with respect, if no sources exist to support the claim, it isn't suitable for inclusion on Wikipedia. A source does exist for the Stroll-Gasly and the Vettel-Stroll collision, if not sure what more of the picture is needed.<ref>https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/32284676/lance-stroll-gets-two-penalty-points-pierre-gasly-clash</ref> Besides, the main part of your edit which required a source was "... a poor race for Stroll" - this is an opinion, and therefore requires a direct source. [[User:SSSB|SSSB]] ([[User talk:SSSB#top|talk]]) 09:18, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
:{{re|BMB YT 500000}} with respect, if no sources exist to support the claim, it isn't suitable for inclusion on Wikipedia. A source does exist for the Stroll-Gasly and the Vettel-Stroll collision, if not sure what more of the picture is needed.<ref>https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/32284676/lance-stroll-gets-two-penalty-points-pierre-gasly-clash</ref> Besides, the main part of your edit which required a source was "... a poor race for Stroll" - this is an opinion, and therefore requires a direct source. [[User:SSSB|SSSB]] ([[User talk:SSSB#top|talk]]) 09:18, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}
{{reflist-talk}}

Fair enough, I suppose. [[User:BMB YT 500000|BMB YT 500000]] ([[User talk:BMB YT 500000|talk]]) 09:25, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Revision as of 09:25, 27 September 2021

Last edited by BMB YT 500000 (talk | contribs) 3 years ago. (Update)


Before posting a message here please consider if this is the correct venue. If you wish to discuss me (SSSB), my edits (read the second paragragh if you have an issue with an edit request I implemented) or you wish to bring my attention to a certain matter, this is the correct venue (there are other cases where this is the correct venue).

However, this is not the correct venue to make edit requests. These requests should be made on the talk page of the page which you would like to be edited, if you request an edit on a page in which I have an interest it will appear on my watchlist, I will see it. If you have a problem with an edit request I implemented, please consider if it might not be better to respond where the edit request was made (you may use {{ping}} or {{u}} to attract my attention). Thank you,
SSSB (talk)

Administrators' newsletter – September 2021

News and updates for administrators from the past month (August 2021).

Administrator changes

readded Jake Wartenberg
removed Emperor • Viridian Bovary
renamed Ashleyyoursmile → Viridian Bovary

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

  • The Score extension has been re-enabled on public wikis. It has been updated, but has been placed in safe mode to address unresolved security issues. Further information on the security issues can be found on the mediawiki page.

Arbitration

Miscellaneous

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:46, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! Reply-link has officially been superseded by mw:DiscussionTools, which you can install using the "Discussion tools" checkbox under Preferences → Beta features. DiscussionTools, developed by the WMF's Editing Team, is faster and has more features than reply-link, and it wouldn't make sense for me to keep developing reply-link. I think the Editing Team is doing amazing work, and look forward to what they can do in the future. Thank you for using reply-link over the years! Enterprisey (talk!) 06:11, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Revival of sprint qualifying discussion

Reviving this disccusion;

Bottas' penalty as stated in the decision document here that occured during Friday qualifying clearly states that he must start from the back of the race grid, not sprint qualifying grid. Again, if Bottas wins SQ, he does NOT get pole position, and this must be distinguished in the results table by marking with the "P" superscript. Admanny (talk) 19:14, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Admanny: I am still of the opinion that (because such a circumstance is so rare, when was the last time a driver lost pole) we shouldn't use a p superscript unless a driver other than the sprint race winner gets pole, instead leave a note: "Unless otherwise stated, the sprint race winner was on pole." Then add a note next to Bottas in the results table(s), and a note next whoever inherits. SSSB (talk) 22:31, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@SSSB: Anything to say now? Not as rare as you think... Admanny (talk) 15:02, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Tvx1: I invite you to participate here. Admanny (talk) 15:11, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with SSSB. There should not be a P unless the sprint winner does not get pole position.Tvx1 15:13, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That implies a pole position was not taken. Inverse effect is seen at the 2019 F2 Spa round. A race wasn't held, but De Vries had pole. Admanny (talk) 15:16, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
To SSSB: I think anyone can agree that a 50% rate of sprint qualifying winner being on pole position is not considered "rare" at all. For the sake of consistency across all standings, we should keep the P superscript regardless of sprint race or not. Admanny (talk) 15:20, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No it doesn’t imply anything and the note suggested by SSSB would deal with that perfectly.Tvx1 15:41, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Admanny: 50%? You have made a distinction between grids determined by sprint qualifying and traditional quaifying where none exists. You are just as likley to get a grid penalty regardless of how the grid os formed. This year we have had 1 instance where the fastest qualifier/sprint race winner (whichever is applicable) didn't get pole out of 14 - that makes a shade over 7%. In 2020 (17 races) it was 0%. So it is rare. (Around 3% over the last two years) SSSB (talk) 17:00, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@SSSB: Because the problem only arises when a sprint race determines the grid order. Normal qualifying doesn't have this problem, because we simply assign who is pole. With more grid penalties coming down later in the season it would be intuitive that such a situation may crop up again. Admanny (talk) 17:04, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'll repeat myself. The probability of someone losing pole during a sprint quali weekend is the same as someone losing pole in a "normal" weekend. I just calculated that probability as sitting in the region of 3-4% over the last two years. Such a situation may crop up again, but with a very small probability that I think a note will be better than using a pole marker and a sprint quali marker. The FIA have already said they don't intend to do this every race. Even if they did, the statistics suggest the problem we are discussing will happen at only one race every 1.5 years. SSSB (talk) 17:35, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

The Invisible Barnstar
For your valued work in the July 2021 GAN Backlog Drive, which, in a single month, helped to reduce the backlog by nearly 50%. --Usernameunique (talk) 05:18, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2021 Russian Grand Prix

Remember when we talk about this fact at the beginning of the season. We said we would have mentioned this fact into the article page, rather than into the 2021 championship page.--Island92 (talk) 13:00, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Island92: I don't remember. But that's also beside the point if you can't provide a source which confirms the claim (without delving into WP:OR). SSSB (talk) 13:04, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It could work.--Island92 (talk) 13:58, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Island92: as the Russian Grand Prix isn't explictly mentioned, you are still using WP:OR to interpret that the CAS ruling (which is quoted) is applicable. I would like a better source, it can't be that hard to find. SSSB (talk) 15:30, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That source was never intended to be the official. I've been looking for something better so far... Let's see. Island92 (talk) 15:34, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The official race schedule being reported on F1.com says there won't be a national anthem (the ref ore Russian flag cannot be showed), but a "national ceremony". This source may have a connection with that. In any case, no Russian flag will be showed throughout the event. Island92 (talk) 15:49, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not doubting that there won't be a Russian flag, but your use of sources to support this fact is based on WP:OR. SSSB (talk) 15:51, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ok.--Island92 (talk) 16:58, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A difference is clear enough. As always in these pages we have to consider where they qualified. If GIO has qualified 18th but will start ahead according to his original position, the penalty is not in force. VER qualified 20th. If he set a lap or no it doesn't matter, he qualified last. Had he qualified 14th e.g., I wouldn't have put that sentence for him.--Island92 (talk) 10:54, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Island92: by all means mention that Gio gained places and that Verstappen qualified last (both of which are mentioned), but to say it "made no difference" is provably wrong. SSSB (talk) 10:56, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Why? "Made no difference" is related to where they originally qualified. GIO 18th, but also he even gained positions, not lost other places in base of the penalty. VER 20th and will start 20th. The penalty cannot work.--Island92 (talk) 10:59, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Island92: the penalty does work. Because the penalty still meant Gio starts 16th rather than 15th. In the case of Verstappen, the note should specify that he didn't set a time because of his penalty,[1] In the case of Giovinazzi, we can say that his penalty was nullified by the penalties of others (because he only lost one place to Mazepin and had a net gain of two places) as a compromise. But to say it made no difference is wrong, plain and simple. SSSB (talk) 11:11, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
A penalty is handed to a driver in order to have him penalised on the grid. Despite having a penalty Giovinazzi gained a position in contrast to where he originally qualified. The penalty cannot work. In the case of Verstappen despite knowing he was going to start last, he qualified 20th because of not setting a time. He will start 20th and there is no difference between where he qualified and where he will start. Island92 (talk) 11:36, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Island92: Giovinazzi is still penalised because he starts one place behind where he would without the penalty. In the case of Verstappen he is still penalised because he was forced to start from the back, the fact he exploited a loop-hole doesn't mean the penalty makes no difference. This is why I suggest the alternate wording that the "penalty was nullified", instead of "made no difference", the latter is both wrong and (even if it weren't wrong) less unencylopedic in language. SSSB (talk) 11:40, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ok.--Island92 (talk) 11:55, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.what-the-teams-said-qualifying-in-russia-2021.xuDmZmr7eI5Y3UN2GNNZe.html

The Signpost: 26 September 2021

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:58, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lance Stroll Edit

Hi I noticed you archived my edit on the Lands Stroll page for not providing sources. At that moment, the only reference available was for his penalty for the next race, which does not include the full picture. The only other link was by an unofficial YouTube video, which is not proper. Thank you. BMB YT 500000 (talk) 09:12, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@BMB YT 500000: with respect, if no sources exist to support the claim, it isn't suitable for inclusion on Wikipedia. A source does exist for the Stroll-Gasly and the Vettel-Stroll collision, if not sure what more of the picture is needed.[1] Besides, the main part of your edit which required a source was "... a poor race for Stroll" - this is an opinion, and therefore requires a direct source. SSSB (talk) 09:18, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/32284676/lance-stroll-gets-two-penalty-points-pierre-gasly-clash

Fair enough, I suppose. BMB YT 500000 (talk) 09:25, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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