Talk:Menelik II: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 15:43, 17 October 2021

This article has not yet been rated on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Biography: Royalty and Nobility

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by WikiProject Royalty and Nobility.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Ethiopia: History and politics Top‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethiopia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ethiopia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EthiopiaWikipedia:WikiProject EthiopiaTemplate:WikiProject EthiopiaEthiopia
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by History and politics (assessed as Top-importance).

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Africa Top‑importance

	Africa portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Africa on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AfricaWikipedia:WikiProject AfricaTemplate:WikiProject AfricaAfrica
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on November 4, 2011 and November 4, 2016.

Archives

Archive 1

Archive 2

This page has archives. Sections older than 60 days may be automatically archived by when more than 8 sections are present.

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Menelik II. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111003141829/http://www.linkethiopia.org/guide/pankhurst/medicine/medicine_6.html to http://www.linkethiopia.org/guide/pankhurst/medicine/medicine_6.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:43, 8 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (January 2018)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Menelik II. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160601015943/http://www.snem.tk/documents/wuchale.pdf to http://www.snem.tk/documents/wuchale.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:25, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The image that says "Menelik's campaigns (1879-1889)" is falsified.

Hi, The image that says "Menelik's campaigns (1879-1889)" is falsified. There was no Gondar province that extends to Welkait before 1930. It is misleading. The expansion for Gonder province (i.e. Begemder province) happened on 1941. ^[1]^[2]^[3]

I am going to remove the map since it is misleading, and it appears to be added for the purpose of current day land politics (which is killing people). Lets only share facts please. Best regards, Truth gate keeper (talk) 15:13, 4 March 2019 (UTC)Truth gate keeper Truth gate keeper[reply]

References

^ Bereket Habte Selassie, "Constitutional Development in Ethiopia", Journal of African Law, 10 (1966), p. 79.
^ "Sarah Vaughan, "Ethnicity and Power in Ethiopia", PhD dissertation, p. 123, 2003" (PDF).
^ Bahru Zewde, A History of Modern Ethiopia (London: James Currey, 1991), p. 86.

'Centralisation' Section

I'd recommend someone completely revise the 'Centralisation' center of this page. It has very evident biases, does not give proper context to events [references the last major war in Ethiopia as having been in the 16th century... and says tactics hadn't much changed from there??? This is incorrect, see 'Zemene Mesafint'. This period of constant warfare undeniably brought many changes to Ethiopia which should be explored in more depth. It also depicts Ethiopian wars as much more petty than they actually were. True geo-political motives are not mentioned or considered and should be, otherwise this falls largely into the trope of pointless 'tribal wars'. While on an individual level, conflict may have been about gaining trophies, ritual requirements, and looting goods - there was an undeniable other reason for warfare: political incentives, desire of certain trade routes, power, etc. 'Lords' were often driven by these desires - economic, geopolitical, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HiddenHistoryPedia (talk • contribs) 23:29, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Aanolee massacre

There is an editorial dispute about the 1886 Aanolee massacre. If you disagree with the sourcing and text in this version, which seems to be identical to the version prior to the edit war, then please explain what is wrong with the sources. Two alternative sources that have been suggested include zahabesha and Borkena (federal government news media). If these sources are serious enough, then WP:NPOV might be justified. Boud (talk) 01:08, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The references are not the easiest to use.

Abbas Gnamo's African Social Studies Series book is paywalled, although there's a quote in the Mohammad A. 'opride.com' article.
Mulualem Daba Tola's article is published by a predatory publisher and presents views for and against the claim of cutting off men's right hands and women's right breasts.
Rosa Abadir's zahabesha.com article doesn't seem to say anything about the hands and breasts being cut off (except for the comments section).
Getaneh Yismaw's borkena.com article argues (using the spelling "Anole"), stating the names of several people making apparently public comments on the issue, that cutting off women's breasts was a hoax created by the TPLF to stoke hatred.

WP:NPOV-ing the current text (not deleting it) may be justified, but others should look through the sources, and maybe find better sources. The Abbas Gnamo book seems the most serious, as the only academic source. Boud (talk) 02:43, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Abbas Gnamo says that his book was "based on extensive research undertaken over two decades" and that "the review process and the preparation of the final text took more one and half years." He claims that he "examined all the available sources in Ethiopian languages, foreign languages (including French and Italian) published and unpublished academic sources, theoretical works, and above all, oral data collected over a long period of time in Arsi-Bale regions from Amhara and Oromo informants." Boud (talk) 02:51, 17 October 2021 (UTC) The second part of the interview with Abbas Gnamo includes a discussion of the Aanolee massacre/mass mutilation and the claims of whether it happened or not, stating that the event "is deeply entrenched in the collective memory of the Arsi Oromo and Oromos everywhere. Some of the survivors lived with the mutilated right hands until the 1950s and 60s. One example which captured my imagination was an Oromo elder who lived with a militated right hand among the Jaawwii clan and who always showed his mutilated hand to the public, and explained how he lost his precious hand in defending their dignity and land." A 16-year-old in 1886 would have been 80 in 1950, and 90 in 1960. Boud (talk) 03:03, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I added one more reference to a paper by Gnamo Abbas.^[1] This is not small stuff; the man obtained his PhD at Sorbonne in Paris! Thank you, Boud for pointing to his interview also. We'll soon have enough materials to write a separate article in addition on the Aanolee massacre; it would be good if somebody could access the corresponding entry in the Encyclopaedia Aethiopica, Institut f. Afrikanistik und Athiopistik, Universitat Hamburg, Germany, 2004. And, I would suggest to Mooproop1: better to face it, so many countries need to face their past. Rastakwere (talk) 15:19, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Aanollee

This is a fake massacre made up by tplf so stop putting it here. Zehabesha and Bokerna are much more reputable than the oromo.com websites you've provided. Menelik saved oromo from colonisation and had a wife and was christan. stop spreading lies. just because oromo region talks about these lies doesnt make them real. they haven't provided any "scientific evidence". it is just a lie to divide the country. i've cited many source proving that. stop spreading lies — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mooproop1 (talk • contribs) 03:42, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

WOLKAIT IS ALWAYS AMHARA GODNAR

Oh yeah and by the way the picture is not falsified. Tigray just stole the land in 1991. Just becaus every single map shows what you don't want it to doesn't make it falsified. It is the map of gondar and welqait was a part of gondar. Deal with it — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mooproop1 (talk • contribs) 03:50, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Aanollee

This guy just uses pro oromo websites and all this stuff like oromopride.com this isn't reputable. Many oromo doctors have debunked this myth in my sources. Stop changing and go do something else instead of spreading hate. I've seen your other edits. Just anti amhara stuff. Go do something else or go watch ur tigrai media house stop spreading fake news

^ Abbas, H.G., 1999. La conquête impériale éthiopienne des Oromo-Arsi (1882-1892). Africa, pp.85-115.

[1] Bereket Habte Selassie, "Constitutional Development in Ethiopia", Journal of African Law, 10 (1966), p. 79.

[2] "Sarah Vaughan, "Ethnicity and Power in Ethiopia", PhD dissertation, p. 123, 2003" (PDF).

[3] Bahru Zewde, A History of Modern Ethiopia (London: James Currey, 1991), p. 86.

[4] Abbas, H.G., 1999. La conquête impériale éthiopienne des Oromo-Arsi (1882-1892). Africa, pp.85-115.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[1]

@@ Line 88: / Line 88: @@
 Oh yeah and by the way the picture is not falsified. Tigray just stole the land in 1991. Just becaus every single map shows what you don't want it to doesn't make it falsified. It is the map of gondar and welqait was a part of gondar. Deal with it  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mooproop1|Mooproop1]] ([[User talk:Mooproop1#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mooproop1|contribs]]) 03:50, 17 October 2021 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+== Aanollee ==
+This guy just uses pro oromo websites and all this stuff like oromopride.com this isn't reputable. Many oromo doctors have debunked this myth in my sources. Stop changing and go do something else instead of spreading hate. I've seen your other edits. Just anti amhara stuff. Go do something else or go watch ur tigrai media house stop spreading fake news