Talk:New York, Ukraine

Requested move 2 July 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Lennart97 (talk) 18:05, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

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Niu-York → New York (Ukraine) – Reliable English language sources Reuters (here) and Deutsche Welle (here (although their article contains a falsehood/urban legend about its founding (settlement was not founded by Germans))) do specifically name the settlement "New York" and not "Niu-York". Although it is only 2 sources, I think that the common English name of the settlement is "New York" and thus this article should be renamed "New York (Ukraine)" per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English). But because I am not sure if 2 sources is enough, I am asking your opinion. Keep in mind that we are talking about a settlement in Ukraine of 10,000 people, so it is unlikely that a lot of English sources will be talking about it........ — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 12:27, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

I just found out that Euronews also refers to the town as "New York" (here (but it also gets it wrong that the place was founded by Germans)). So I found 3 English sources for renaming this article to "New York (Ukraine)" now. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 12:43, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

I do not support this initiative. All Ukrainian administrative-territorial units are written in English according to the Ukrainian transliteration of 2010. Except, unfortunately, Odesa and Chornobyl, which continue to be written in the Russian tradition. — Jafaz • Talk 22:58, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose  New York has not been demonstrated as the WP:COMMONNAME for this subject, “as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources.” Certainly not without comparing its frequency of usage to other spellings in reliable sources (books and articles), including Ukrainian Niu-York, LOC Ni͡u-Ĭork or Niu-Iork, scientific Nju-Jork, or other system for romanization of Ukrainian. (Good luck. Make sure you include sources referring to this town during its first century of existence, 1846–1951. On Google Maps it’s Niu-York, on Apple Maps Novgorodskoye, on NGIA’s GeoNames it’s Novhorodske) ¶ But obscure Ukrainian towns of 10,000 inhabitants generally do not have a “commonly recognizable name” in English, and according to WP:TRANSLITERATE and WP:UKR we default to the romanized name Niu-York. Despite a handful of “wow, New York in Ukraine” articles, this place has simply not been referred to by a significant number of English-language sources at all (including during the aforementioned first century of its existence as Niu-York). Yes, WP:NAMECHANGES says to prefer reliable sources written after the name change is announced, but in practice that has us taken years to confirm, not less than a week after the legal name change. ¶ Commonname only exists to serve the WP:CRITERIA. But in this case the current name better satisfies Recognizability: someone familiar with the subject will recognize it; Precision: Niu-York unambiguously identifies and distinguishes the specific subject without disambiguation, unlike New York which represents about about sixty; Consistency: Ukrainian romanization is used for 99.99% of Ukrainian place names, and anyone looking for Ню-Йорк, whether familiar with its Ukrainian name or official romanized name would naturally search for the spelling Niu-York (also contributing to Naturalness); and Conciseness: needs no disambiguation. —Michael Z. 22:09, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose per Jafaz and per detailed examination of the issue by Michael Z. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:57, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose per everyone's exhaustive arguments above—blindlynx (talk) 14:27, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose per Jafaz and Michael Z - if this becomes WP:COMMONNAME, which realistically could happen, we should revisit this in the future. For now, it should continue to follow the proper Ukrainian transliteration, like all Ukrainian place names without a different common name. Cran32 (talk | contributions) 01:58, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.