Talk:The White Goddess

Removed Druantia section

I can't find sources that back up the claim that Robert Grave's "hypothetical Gallic tree goddess" Druantia is now an established pagan deity. In the book itself, that name is only mentioned once, and is just that - a mention: "Though Druantia, the name of the Gallic Fir-goddess, contains no reference to her own tree, it makes her 'Queen of the Druids' and therefore mother of the whole tree-calendar" (191). And that's it. The section cited a book by DJ Conway, which I don't have access to, so maybe there's more lore on Druantia there that justifies the goddess appearing in wiki in her own right. But I still don't think a section on Druantia is appropriate for The White Goddess page.

Here's the section that I removed:

In ''The White Goddess'', Graves proposed a hypothetical [[Gauls|Gallic]] tree goddess, [[Druantia]], who has become somewhat popular with contemporary [[Paganism (contemporary)|Neopagans]]. Druantia is an archetype of the eternal mother as seen in the [[evergreen]] boughs. Her name is believed to be derived from the [[Celtic nations|Celtic]] word for [[oak]] trees, *{{lang|cel|drus}} or *{{lang|cel|deru}}.<ref>{{cite book |title=The Wisdom of Trees |author=Jane Gifford |year=2006 |publisher=Springer |isbn=1-397-81402-0 |page=146 }}</ref> She is known as "Queen of the [[Druids]]". She is a goddess of fertility for both plants & humans, ruling over sexual activities & passion. She also rules protection of trees, knowledge, creativity.<ref>{{cite book |title=Celtic Magic |author=Deanna J. Conway |year=2006 |publisher=Llewellyn Publications |isbn=0-87542-136-9 |page=[https://archive.org/details/celticmagic00conw/page/n126 109] |url-access=registration |url=https://archive.org/details/celticmagic00conw }}</ref>

-CaptainJae (talk) 20:19, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Why would you remove a sourced section, just because you don't have access to one of the sources? Have you got some ulterior motive for this action? A quick search on Google turns up numerous results. Mostly pagan sites. However, I do believe it is significant enough that it should be restored. From my limited knowledge Druantia is a creation of Robert Graves. She is certainly not named after the Fir or the oak tree. From my recollection some of the names of the Old Irish alphabet are actually names of trees, and thus the letter D is "duir" (oak). Druantia was not covered in any lecture in my paleography classes of Old Irish, and I have not seen any reference to her in any scholarly article on the Druid religion. She is certainly not the "White Goddess". There is no way to get white from any part of Druantia, from any of the ancient Celtic languages. So while there may be only one reference to her in his book, he is undoubtedly the creator of the goddess and the word. Hence, the only place she belongs is in this article, and the creation of a goddess is certainly worthy of appearing in it's own section. There are enough references to the name on the Internet and in books, to warrant having the section, so that interested researchers have an authoritative source of the origin of the goddess and the word.

— Celtic hackr (talk) 18:36, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

I removed that sourced section because it has nothing to do with Robert Graves' White Goddess. It can certainly go in DJ Conway's page; I don't feel it's appropriate here. As I stated, there is a single instance of the name in White Goddess and Graves makes no claim as to her creation. Rather than start an edit war, I'll leave your change in place and hope someone else can weigh in. -CaptainJae (talk) 17:39, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

My first WP contribution here: The Druantia section is problematic. It gives the impression that Graves' Druantia is, for example, derived from the Celtic word for oak and ruled over sexual activities, yet those descriptions are, as I understand it, entirely attributable to DJ Conway. Why would we have DJ Conway's version of Druantia if Graves is her creator (as stated by Celtic hackr)? If there should be a separate section at all, it should contain Graves' own brief description of Durantia, including that she is "Queen of the Druids", but remove everything from Conway: "Druantia is an archetype of the eternal mother as seen in the evergreen boughs. Her name is believed to be derived from the Celtic word for oak trees, *drus or *deru.[7] She is a goddess of fertility for both plants & humans, ruling over sexual activities & passion. She also rules protection of trees, knowledge, creativity.[8]" Or, if not remove it, at least it should be made clear that Conway's Druantia is to describe a contemporary Neopagan interpretation of the deity rather than the one of Graves' making.

-Matocinegraph (talk) 4:29, 27 October 2021 (UTC)