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Revision as of 21:09, 8 January 2022

< December 31 January 02 >

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. ✗plicit 00:01, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

James Ogoo

James Ogoo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I don't believe this player meets GNG or NFOOTY. Although his article reports international caps for Gambia, backed up by a BBC interview with him[1], there's no record of him ever playing internationally. Indeed, he claims to have played for his country against Liberia in 2000 but the countries did not meet in that year[2]. This leads me to believe he either lied to the interviewer about his international career, or he represented his country only in non-official games.

As he never played professionally and has received little coverage outside a one-time interview, I don't think he's notable. MarchOfTheGreyhounds (talk) 22:23, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/fa_cup/7749173.stm
  2. ^ https://www.11v11.com/teams/liberia/tab/opposingTeams/opposition/Gambia/
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The result was delete. ✗plicit 00:03, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Robert Model

Robert Model (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This businessman doen't appear to pass WP:ANYBIO, with neither his business activities nor his family connections sufficient claims of notability. The closest thing to significant coverage I could find is this short article about his wedding, but it reads like routine coverage of a high society wedding and provides very little information on the subject himself. Lennart97 (talk) 19:28, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vSzwJAfeV5oC&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=Robert+Model+piggly+wiggly&source=bl&ots=s59jUuS6-o&sig=ACfU3U1IYEL0sF-riuBPqX3eX54V8PfInQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjksKSZwJX1AhXHbsAKHS7aD_wQ6AF6BAgJEAM#v=onepage&q=Robert%20Model%20piggly%20wiggly&f=false
  2. ^ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/guns-a-family-affair/
  3. ^ https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Get-Involved/Outdoor-Hall-of-Fame/Robert-Bob-Model
Thank you for locating these sources. I agree with your assessment that they don't quite constitute significant coverage but they're definitely useful. Lennart97 (talk) 12:24, 3 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. Consensus is that sourcing is sufficient for it to stand now, thinly skirting GNG, with the release on the immediate horizon. Would be different if it were further out, and our had no hope of future sourcing. Star Mississippi 17:33, 24 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I.S.S. (film)

I.S.S. (film) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I.S.S. (film)

Unreleased film that does not satisfy general notability and so does not satisfy any version of film notability. An article should speak for itself, and this article says nothing about what is notable about the film (because nothing is, because the film doesn't yet exist and its production has not been notable).

There has been a myth for many years that the statement by a reliable source that a film is in production makes the film notable. That has been a myth at least since 2008. Nonetheless, editors often nominate older, little documented films for deletion. There is no real reason why little-documented unreleased films should be more notable than little-documented almost forgotten films. An effort to clarify the film notability guideline resulted in No Consensus, so nothing has changed. The mere fact that a film has been in production does not make it notable unless its production has been notable.

Of the four references, one states that the film was produced, one states that an actress was signed to play in it, one states that it began production, and a paywalled source probably states that it began production.

Reference Number Reference Comments Independent Significant Reliable Secondary
1 fastlaneng.louisianaeconomicdevelopment.com A database of films shot at least partly in Louisiana - lists the film Yes No Probably No
2 Deadline.com Announcement of signing of actress No Not with respect to film Yes No
3 Starnewsonline.com (Wilmington, NC) Paywalled, but apparently states that the film is being filmed No No
4 Varietyinsight States that the film is being filmed in North Carolina Yes No Probably No

Draftification is probably the best action, but after the article has been in article space for months, a unilateral draftification would be inappropriate. There is a content dispute about whether to mention a fact about the film, but the real content issue is whether to have an article. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:28, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Further input requested.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 13:14, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 17:42, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 07:51, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Nate James (fighter)

Nate James (fighter) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG as his main coverage is through routine sporting report. James is in his 40s, has not fought in 7 years. Very unlikely to meet GNG in the future. WP:CRYSTALBALL ♡RAFAEL♡(talk) 18:52, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 07:52, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Grace Barraza-Vega

Grace Barraza-Vega (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The sources do no show that this artists meets our notability criteria

  • issuu.com Issuu is a publishing platform, this magazine, Lanetaneta looks self-published, but it's hard to tell because there is no colophon or information about its editor or even an ISSN.
  • www.mysoutex.com is about one of her students, not her.
  • prayersfromla.org does not mention Barraza-Vega
  • www.mysanantonio.com has single sentence about her which is partly a quote: 'The border and Latino culture play a prominent role in "New Arte Nuevo," notably in works such "El Vato Louie" by Corpus Christi artist Grace Barraza-Vega, who calls her paintings "records of my life," adding, "I am a product of Mestizo culture." '
  • www.youtube.com is a self-published video of her MFA exhibition
  • chimmayaart.com lists her under Exhibiting Artists, but has nothing about her
  • patch.com is an announcement, that lists her under Participating Artists
  • prayersfromla.org is a catalogue of a project that Barraza-Vega helped organize, not independent coverage.
  • feliciamontes.wordpress.com is a blog
  • amigos805.com mentioned as "The exhibition features artists ..., Grace Barraza-Vega, ..."
  • www.alborde.com is a press release
  • kspacecontemporary.org is a dead link
  • expressionsgraphics.wordpress.com is a blog post about a juried art show where Barraza-Vega had an entry.

In summary, there is no significant coverage of the subject in independent, reliable sources and none of the subject-specific notability criteria for artists are met. Vexations (talk) 18:36, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Vexations (talk) 18:36, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 18:45, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Mexico-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 18:45, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 18:45, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - another artist article by a student editor that does not meet our notability criteria per WP:GNG nor WP:ARTIST. I guess the way these Wiki-Edu projects work is that the students can bypass AfC, and are instructed to move the articles directly to article space and bypass the review process? It's a mystery to me.... Netherzone (talk) 19:28, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Perhaps LiAnna (Wiki Ed) can clarify this? As a reviewer for NPP, I'm often left with no one to talk to. By the time the article reaches mainspace and gets reviewed, the students have usually already left. Editor retention is zero. NPP has a sizeable backlog. We're approaching 10,000 articles, and it can take months before an article is reviewed. That causes a complete breakdown in communication. I have never heard back from an instructor, so I don't know if they're even aware of what gets deleted and why. The students are often required to do a peer review, but those seem to be done without any idea of what we require. Vexations (talk) 20:13, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    We used to send students through AfC but the backlog there was so large that articles didn't get looked at until after the end of the term, and you're right many students stop responding at that point. We at Wiki Education try to look at the new articles to ensure they meet notability; I did personally glance at this one but I didn't dig deeper into the particular sources, just noted there seemed to be many of them so assumed it passed notability. Feel free to move it to draft space. We've already noted to discuss notability with this professor before they teach with Wikipedia again. --LiAnna (Wiki Ed) (talk) 18:56, 3 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - per the exhaustive research of the nominator. Another example of student work that (as noted) gets finished by the end of the semester and then left to the over-burdened review system to clean-up. What is the job description of (Wiki Ed) anyway? WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 20:18, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The article clearly does not meet notability guidelines. I have to admit I think it would be a much better process to limit these students to working on existing articles that need expansion and editing then to send them to create new articles. I also think we should definitely go back to having these articles go through the actual AfC process. I also think we should require all articles to go through the AfC process. Yes it is long, but it is better than what we sometimes get in the current system, which is undersourced articles on non-notable people and even on rare occasions outright hoaxes lasting for over a decade.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:32, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, with regrets. I was hoping someone would turn something else up during this AfD, but it doesn't look like anyone has or will. Sad to see yet another student article from this class go, but the sourcing doesn't hold up and the subject doesn't appear to pass notability guidelines. -- asilvering (talk) 16:19, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete fails WP:GNG --Devokewater (talk) 21:25, 7 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 07:52, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

List of maiden voyages

AfDs for this article:
List of maiden voyages (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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What is the point of this article? every craft has a maiden voyage so it will just end up a list of all known ships and planes. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 15:10, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I think pointing out notable maiden voyages, especially notable losses on the maiden voyage of a vessel, is valuable. Maybe the name should be changed? --Nomentz (talk) 16:03, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
(For easier reference, here's the old deletion discussion.)--Nomentz (talk) 16:09, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete It is moribund to the point that no one has been bothered to add the most famous maiden voyage loss of all. There is already a category for such articles. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 16:18, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Which voyage would that be? And why didn't you add it if it's missing? But a parallel category seems superfluous; so are you suggesting to replace appearance in the list by adding to the category? --Nomentz (talk) 16:28, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that is a humongous, gargantuan oversight. Clarityfiend (talk) 12:04, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Every ship has a maiden voyage Lyndaship (talk) 13:42, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Comment: Was there a previous AfD for this? This is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of maiden voyages (2nd nomination) but I cannot find Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of maiden voyages. Does it exist? snood1205 02:23, 2 January 2022 (UTC) (Answer was linked above, comment struck snood1205 03:53, 2 January 2022 (UTC))[reply]

Delete - maybe have a separate page for "Notable Maiden Voyages" such as the Titanic which sunk. I agree partially with User:Nomentz and User:Mjroots PatrickChiao (talk) 02:32, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. Asides my !vote to delete, The consensus from the participants is clearly to keep the article, since all !votes weren’t necessarily to keep the article, the nominator cannot unilaterally close this as a speedy keep. They have withdrawn this nomination thus I am moving to close this. (non-admin closure) Celestina007 (talk) 23:54, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Caryma Sa'd

Caryma Sa'd (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The subject of this article is a Canadian lawyer who, in addition to doing what lawyers do and receiving mention in the press as a result, is also a comic artist. I don't think that suffices to be a notable lawyer. Looking at Category:21st-century_Canadian_lawyers she seems a bit out of place. I'm also not so sure that she meets the threshold of notability per WP:NARTIST. She "published cartoons", according to the article, but "published" here seems to mean self-published on Twitter. What's the consensus here: Is the coverage sufficient to meet the WP:GNG? Vexations (talk) 17:34, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep Hi, (I created the article). As you might expect, I think we should keep this article. I submitted it through the AfC process @User:ThadeusOfNazereth was the reviewer and they approved it. More importantly, she meets the general notability criteria on the basis of articles written about her in the Toronto Star, the CBC, and Canada's National Observer. And just in simple real life, she is notable, she's in the news all the time for documenting the lock down protests. I find the line "in addition to doing what lawyers do and receiving mention in the press as a result" strange, because yes lawyers are likely to get in the press for lawyering just like footballers got in the news for kicking a ball and Madonna got in the news for singing, that doesn't discount the coverage in any way with regards to the notability requirements. CT55555 (talk) 20:04, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Weird as it may seem, we don't really pay attention to real life, only to what independent, reliable (secondary) sources say. As for the CBC, she does get a mention like "The clip was captured by Toronto lawyer Caryma Sa'd, who has become a mainstay at such protests this summer, documenting them and sharing them online" in [6], but that's not really significant coverage. As far as I can tell, the only articles that are actually about her are [7], [8] and perhaps [9], although that's mopre about the case of Michael Storms. If the consensus is that that is sufficient to establish notability, I'll gladly accept that. Vexations (talk) 21:43, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment — @Vexations I found it amusing that WP:SIGCOV is also noted as to why the subject is not suited for mainspace just yet, as I used a similar argument when I opened an AFD on one of the article created by this editor, One of the most imperative arguments made by the article creator is that the article in question was approved at AFC, my thinking is the AFC perm has a rather low threshold for issuance, thus editors who aren’t well grounded in policy on notability get this pseudo perm and since they aren’t well grounded in notability criteria areas they tend to accept non notable articles. Celestina007 (talk) 00:59, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    The purpose of AfC is to identify which submissions will be deleted and which won't. Articles that will probably survive a listing at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion should be accepted. I think what we have here is the result of blindly applying a "rule" that reflects praxis. Collectively, we have found that most notable subjects have at least two newspaper articles about them. That then became a test; if there are two newspaper articles, we presume that the subject is notable. That's backwards, and a little too easy for my taste. There is only one group of lawyers that has consistently been found notable; members of the supreme court. This is a young lawyer without a brief career who has received coverage in local newspapers. Do we want to apply the rule that "two is a pass" or do we want to think a bit more carefully about what that means. Vexations (talk) 12:19, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A small, but important detail: in response to the comment that she's only in local newspapers, that's incorrect. Despite the name, Toronto Star is not a local newspaper, it's Canada's #2 newspaper by circulation I also would challenge that Canada's National Observer is local, likewise the CBC and CTV - most of the sources are national. CT55555 (talk) 21:21, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Toronto Star is a local newspaper wen it reports on local issues. They have special sections for regional news. The CBC reports local news at https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto CTV, and https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ is regional news. Vexations (talk) 22:44, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There are two major national newspapers in Canada, National Post and The Globe and Mail Vexations (talk) 22:48, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Vexations, Alright mate, If I’m interpreting this correctly you want me to close this as a keep and give a well thought detailed rationale for doing so? Alright consider it done. Celestina007 (talk) 23:46, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep and rename. A couple of options below were thrown about, but nothing concrete reached. I will leave to normal editorial processes to execute said move (either via being bold and just doing it, or a requested move) once a target is pinpointed. Daniel (talk) 13:16, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

2350 BC Middle East Anomaly

2350 BC Middle East Anomaly (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The source is published by British Archaeological Reports[10] which should mean its reputable, but as it is a collection of papers from the Second Society for Interdisciplinary Studies Cambridge Conference, and SIS is a Velikovskian group[11] I'm pretty dubious. I don't see the term used in mainstream publications or at least when it is with a reference to the SIS report, and I'm not convinced it's used in mainstream academia. For instance, Third Millennium BC Climate Change and Old World Collapse doesn't seem to mention it. Doug Weller talk 16:59, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The below comments make a good case that this should not be a simple redirect. I like Paul H.'s approach of refocusing the article on the parent topic (as it were). --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 23:08, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Delete. In my opinion, the evidence is mixed. I do not see the failure to include it in the 1994 volume cited above as suspicious as it appears to be an idea which has emerged since then. The 1998 volume and its lead editor, Peiser, are fringe, see [12]. However, the author of the 1998 article, Courty, does not seem fringe. His name gets 49 hits in the 1994 volume. I do not think that the idea is fringe, although it appears to have received some fringe support. A source which supports a climate anomaly at 2350 BC but not specifically Middle East, which is an RS so far as I can judge, is Why we shouldn’t ignore the mid-24th century BC when discussing the 2200-2000 BC climate anomaly. However, a single source is not sufficient for notability, so I would not at present oppose deletion. Further evidence may well emerge to justify an article with a title such as Mid-24th century BCE climate anomaly.
The redirect to Umm al Binni lake is not helpful to readers. It now mentions 2350 but just cites the 1998 article and a google search, neither of which are reliable sources. The mention of the lake is in any case just a peripheral speculation about a possible site which for some reason seems to be wrongly regarded by some editors as the main topic of the article. Dudley Miles (talk) 18:16, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Why? The best source I can find on the anomaly at [13] does not mention Umm al Binni lake and is mainly on Irish tree rings. Dudley Miles (talk) 19:32, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
why also? None of the sources that I consulted mention Umm al Binni lake. Paul H. (talk) 20:01, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Rename - Revise. Delete. This article conflates two different hypothesis. The first hypothesis is about a climate anomaly about 4,200 BP (2,200 BC). This hypothesis is discussed by several peer-reviewed publications (papers and at least one book chapter). The second and final hypothesis is that this climate anomaly was caused by an extrerrestrial impact. The second hypothesis involves Dr. Marie-Agnes Courty arguing that a dust layer accumulated across the Middle East “...after а disruption of sшfaсе soils, possibly caused by а shock wave well-documented in archaeological sites...” There are published papers and book chapters about this hypothesis by Dr. Marie-Agnes Courty and proponents of coherent catastrophism, e.g. W. Bruce Masse, Mike Baillie and others. I suggest that the article and possibly title be revised to focus on the climate anomaly with only a brief mention of the impact hypothesis as only one of various hypotheses proposed to explain the climate anomaly without giving it undue weight.

The references that I found for both are:

1. References for the 4,200 BP / 4.2 ka Climate Anomaly / 4.2 ka Megadrought

Note: PDFs of many of the below publications can found online.

Baillie, M. and McAneney, J., 2015. Why we should not ignore the mid-24th century bc when discussing the 2200–2000 BC climate anomaly. 2200 BC—Ein Klimasturz als Ursache für den Zerfall der Alten Welt? 2200 BC—A Climatic Breakdown as a Cause for the Collapse of the Old World, pp.23-26.

Carolin, S.A., Walker, R.T., Day, C.C., Ersek, V., Sloan, R.A., Dee, M.W., Talebian, M. and Henderson, G.M., 2019. Precise timing of abrupt increase in dust activity in the Middle East coincident with 4.2 ka social change. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 116(1), pp.67-72.

Cookson, E., Hill, D.J. and Lawrence, D., 2019. Impacts of long term climate change during the collapse of the Akkadian Empire. Journal of Archaeological Science, 106, pp.1-9.

Weiss, H., 2016. Global megadrought, societal collapse and resilience at 4.2–3.9 ka BP across the Mediterranean and west Asia. PAGES, 24(2), pp.62-63.

Weiss, H., 2017. 4.2 ka BP Megadrought and the Akkadian Collapse. Megadrought and collapse: From early agriculture to Angkor, pp.93-160.

2. References discussing extrerrestrial impact hypothesis

Baillie, M.G.L., 2007a. The case for significant numbers of extraterrestrial impacts through the late Holocene. Journal of Quaternary Science: Published for the Quaternary Research Association, 22(2), pp.101-109.

Baillie, M.G.L., 2007b. Tree-rings indicate global environmental downturns that could have been caused by comet debris. In Comet/asteroid impacts and human society (pp. 105-122). Springer, Berlin, Heidelberg.

Courty, M.-A., 1997. Causes And Effects Of The 2350 BC Middle East Anomaly Evidenced By Micro-debris Fallout, Surface Combustion And Soil Explosion Presented at the SIS Conference: Natural Catastrophes during Bronze Age Civilisations (11th-13th July 1997) (abstract)

Courty, M.-A., 1998a. Causes and effects of the 2350 BC Middle East anomaly evidenced by micro-debris fallout, surface combustion and soil explosion. Natural Catastrophes During Bronze Age Civilisations: Archaeological, Geological, Astronomical and Cultural Perspectives. British Archaeological Reports-S728, Archaeopress, Oxford. (not accessed, likely a mangled citation for Courty 1998b, below)

Courty M.-A. 1998b. The soil record of an exceptional event at 4000 BP in the Middle East. In: Peiser BJ, Palmer T, Bailey ME (eds) Natural catastrophes during Bronze Age civilizations: archaeological, geological, astronomical, and cultural perspectives. BAR International Series 728, Archaeopress, Ox- ford, pp 93–108

Courty M.-A. 2001. Evidence at Tell Brak for the Late EDIII/Early Akkadian Air Blast Event (4 kyr BP). In: Oates D, Oates J, McDonald H (eds) Excavations at Tell Brak. Vol. 2: Nagar in the third millennium BC. McDonald Institute for Archaeology/British School of Archaeology in Iraq, London, pp 367–372.

Courty, M.-A., Crisci, A., Fedoroff, M., Grice, K., Greenwood, P., Mermoux, M., Smith, D. and Thiemens, M., 2008. Regional manifestation of the widespread disruption of soil-landscapes by the 4 kyr BP impact-linked dust event using pedo-sedimentary micro-fabrics. In New trends in soil micromorphology (pp. 211-236). Springer, Berlin, Heidelberg.

Masse, W.B., 2007. The archaeology and anthropology of Quaternary period cosmic impact. In Comet/asteroid impacts and human society (pp. 25-70). Springer, Berlin, Heidelberg.

3. Web page

Dossier météorites > Sur les traces d'un impact d'astéroïde il y a 4000 ans > Un astéroïde a-t’il percuté La Terre à l'époque des pyramides ? Paul H. (talk) 19:57, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Only Courty (1997) calls it the "2350 BC Middle East Anomaly". In Courty (1998b) and thereafter, she moved the "2350 BC Middle East Anomaly" event to 4000 BP. Baillie and McAneney (2015) designates their event as the "2200–2000 BC climate anomaly", which groups both events together as one. Finally, Carolin et al. (2091), above, gives the duration of the 4.2 ka event being from 4.26 ka to 3.97 ka, which also means that there is only one instead of two events. Given whether calibrated versus uncalibrated radiocarbon dates are being used and the magnitude of the sigma on them, a difference of 200 years might very well be meaningless. But her event is a regional "airblast." Paul H. (talk) 22:07, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Baillie and McAneney do not group the two events as one. They mention the 2200-2000 BC event and then say "However, it might be unwise to ignore the precisely dated, abrupt environmental downturn that occurs some 150 years earlier." They are using dendro dating, which does not have the same problems as radiocarbon. Dudley Miles (talk) 22:24, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Week keep (and rename). User:Dudley Miles has made a good point that the hypothesis about this climate anomaly is not solely linked to Umm-al-Binni-related musings. But I also agree that if only based on the paper by Baille & McAneney (which is about a "growth downturn" observed in Irish and English oak tree rings "spanning 2354 BC to 2345 BC with hints of inundation", paired with wildly literalist speculations, check out e.g. the Annals of the Four Masters stuff on p. 837 of their paper), this is probably not enough for establishing independent notability. –Austronesier (talk) 21:38, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The sourcing is almost entirely based on conference abstracts, which do not substantiate notability. It's not clear what the supposed renamed article would be titled or about. We already have an article on the 4.2-kiloyear event regardless. Hemiauchenia (talk) 23:07, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you and Austronesier. I am changing my vote to "delete" as it based on Courty's publications with not enough published detailed analysis and research in addition to Courty's than her to establishing independent notability. Paul H. (talk) 01:20, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Dudley Miles - I also having supported delete, I am move "...towards keep but rename in the light of the discussion." Paul H. (talk) 20:04, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 08:07, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Emma Liljegren

Emma Liljegren (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Badly sourced biography on someone who possibly fails WP:GNG and does not seem to have any other claim to notability. Google News has nothing. ProQuest has nothing. A Swedish newspaper search yielded a few hits but none of them are relevant to football and most seem to be wedding announcements, childbirth announcements and other routine local paper coverage which doesn't establish encyclopaedic notability (also no indication that they are referring to the footballer of this name). A Swedish source search using DDG was also unsuccessful. I did find one news article about her but the coverage is minimal and not enough to justify an article. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 16:51, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 08:07, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Helene Nordin

Helene Nordin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Badly sourced biography. The footballer of this name doesn't seem to pass WP:GNG or any other appropriate guideline. Google News only seems to have coverage relating to the politician of the same name. Likewise when searching in the Swedish newspaper database and DDG. The two references in the article are passing mentions and do nothing to justify an article on Nordin. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 16:17, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. I don't think we are going to achieve a clearer consensus given this has had three relists. The general feeling is that the article should be kept and no view to the contrary has been expressed besides through the nomination itself. (non-admin closure) Bungle (talk • contribs) 16:17, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Waves (festival)

Waves (festival) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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An article about a student event, referenced only to brief event announcement coverage (and with further such available, such as this promotionally-worded notice (2019). Despite the claims in the article text, such as that it "gained popularity far and wide due to the euphoria and ecstasy it creates", searches are not finding the evidence of notability needed to sustain an article here. I considered redirecting this to the article about the parent institution, where it is mentioned at Birla_Institute_of_Technology_and_Science,_Pilani_–_Goa_Campus#Student_life but a redirect without discussion seems inappropriate as this article was originally accepted at AfC, so I am instead bringing it here. AllyD (talk) 22:01, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Needs lots of cleanup and better sources to be added, but I think there's something salvageable here. Although it's a student event, it seems to have a lot of coverage in the local area. Googling for "Waves Festival Goa" comes up with some promising results, although some may be promotional.[1] [2] [3] [4] JonnyDKeen (talk) 21:03, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://lawlex.org/lex-bulletin/waves-bits-pilani-goa-2021-ile-de-fantaisie-12-14-nov-2021/26770
  2. ^ https://youthincmag.com/waves-2021-bits-pilani-goas-annual-cultural-festival
  3. ^ https://www.groovenexus.com/event/college-fest/waves-bits-pilani-goa/
  4. ^ https://www.thegoan.net//all-set-to-make-waves/37967.html

Keep. This needs more sources, but it clearly seems to be a major event that would normally qualify for a wiki page, and has been running for years. Deathlibrarian (talk) 07:32, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: Not been any discussion for three weeks, though may help to gain views on the sources offered.
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The result was delete. ✗plicit 00:05, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Emmanuel Paga

Emmanuel Paga (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Soccerway has 14 youth games for Paga and GSA has 4 games but only 52 minutes in a WP:NOTFPL league, therefore, Paga fails WP:NFOOTBALL. All of the cited sources are either stats pages, articles from clubs that he played for or trivial transfer rumours, no significant coverage. Google News has nothing more than a couple of small transfer announcements and DDG only yields Modern Ghana, which is basically a slight rewording of one of the other transfer announcements found through Google News. Paga does not currently pass WP:GNG, in my view. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 16:00, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! Since he was also on the books of San Antonio FC and International Allies F.C., it may not be appropriate to redirect to Vision over those two. Secondly, I'm not sure how Paga would be incorporated at the destination article. With such minor coverage, I'm not sure that he even warrants a mention at Vision F.C.. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 21:55, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – as per nom. Additionally, Paga is no longer at Vision FC, so there would be no reason to redirect there. Keskkonnakaitse (talk) 23:13, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ✗plicit 05:09, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Christo Allegra

Christo Allegra (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The subject supposedly made some notable work, but there is no significant coverage in independent, reliable sources of said work: phi face, MARCO and Swen of the Wirble. He has worked for some notable companies, but so have millions of other "freelance artists". Vexations (talk) 15:58, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Comment I am not sure what to make of this article. The subject is employed as a Design Director at Spatialize, which is the first sentence of the article and has a primary source. The second sentence leans on an interview, which really should not be used as a reliable secondary source. After that I get lost. The text doesn't document why this digital artist is notable . "He uses his art to express his beliefs on queer politics, WTC, financial data, visualization, and physicalized narrative" doesn't mean anything. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 02:05, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 08:07, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Jonathan Browne (racing driver)

Jonathan Browne (racing driver) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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WP:BLP of a racing driver who has only competed in very minor series and seems to be notable only for one event (winning the Formula Ford Festival). Most coverage is WP:ROUTINE, with this Autosport article and this Formula Scout article coming the closest to providing significant coverage that I can find in a WP:BEFORE search. Two of the Formula Scout articles cited in the article do focus on the subject ("FF1600 star Jonathan Browne to race in Indy Pro 2000 with Turn 3" and "FFord Festival winner Jonathan Browne to join GB3 with Hillspeed"), but both are just fairly routine announcements which both relate back heavily to said FF Festival win. What sourcing there is on this driver would probably be far better used creating articles about the events they have competed in rather than in creating a WP:BLP. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 15:03, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Twoja twarz brzmi znajomo. Stifle (talk) 15:20, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Twoja twarz brzmi znajomo (season 15)

Twoja twarz brzmi znajomo (season 15) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Unsourced TV series article. Non-notable. scope_creepTalk 14:11, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - I don't speak Polish so can't speak to the quality of the sources, but just wanted to flag that the main page for this show links to season-specific pages for most of the series, so if the consensus is that this page isn't notable, presumably all the similar ones could also be deleted or merged into the main page. --CameronVictoria (talk) 15:58, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I appreciate one shouldn't be parochial, but I can't see any point in having an article with the Polish name as its title. Presumably anyone who can understand the article's title can also read the Polish WP's article on the subject, and anyone who cannot, will have no idea what the article is about anyway, which renders it utterly pointless to our English-speaking readers. Given that the natural language of English WP is English, it should at least be moved to an English-titled article (e.g. Your face sounds familiar (Season 15) (Polish TV show)), unless it is commonly known in the English-speaking sphere by its Polish name; and if moving it renders it meaningless, it probably isn't notable. Elemimele (talk) 18:51, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Each of the previous seasons has its own article, and most of them have only a single reference. So there is no rationale for deleting this one that doesn't apply to all the others. Whether they SHOULD have independent articles, and whether it is appropriate to have a Polish title for them, can be discussed elsewhere, probably at the parent article. -- MelanieN (talk) 20:43, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It should apply all the others. It not acceptable for articles not to have references. The standard to pass Afd is WP:THREE. This article doesn't meet that. It does have one reference. Every part of it should be referenced. It is more than a question of fairness. A lot of these folks don't seem to want to put references in. They would rather copy the content from the source, like as happened here and leave as is. That is unacceptable in 2022. Saying they have a single reference doesn't escape the problem. The article was redirected twice, by different editor's and this editor, who has talk page full red warnings, edit warred to bring it and doesn't communicate. I'll get the rest of them in. scope_creepTalk 11:39, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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I am also nominating the following related pages because I believe they should be part of this Afd as they are effectively unsourced: 
scope_creepTalk 23:48, 24 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 08:07, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lucy Azeez

Lucy Azeez (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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BLP of a PR professional, sourced to PR. Mccapra (talk) 13:21, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Which of these you you believe are reliable sources? Mccapra (talk) 20:16, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
According to the article she is not a “leading business leader”, she’s a head of PR. Mccapra (talk) 20:18, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete. G11'd shortly after nomination. (non-admin closure) jp×g 12:37, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sth Nahiyan

Sth Nahiyan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Some guy's resume. All of the citations are to his own website and there are no search results even resembling reliable sources. I don't think being an entrepreneur, full-stack developer, pianist and singer makes you notable (or else I'd be a BLP subject). jp×g 12:10, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 08:08, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Nokturn Technology Company Limited

Nokturn Technology Company Limited (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This article is very badly written. Of the four references, not a single one mentions the company's name, or is in any way related to it. It claims to have one hundred users. Wow! I do not find anything from a WP:BEFORE search. Since it has an infobox and references, I expect that a speedy nomination would be contested. jp×g 11:49, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. No prejudice against speedy renomination. (non-admin closure) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 21:08, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kamnaa (TV series)

Kamnaa (TV series) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails a 'before' test. I dream of horses (Contribs) (Talk) 07:36, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus on the main article, redirect for the rest, with the option of merging independently sourced content. This discussion is a mess, and has gone on long enough. There is clear consensus that the spinoff articles aren't worth keeping. Consensus isn't clear on the main article; a standalone might be justifiable, or a merger to the article about the founder, but that decision should be taken on the basis of quantities of coverage in reliable sources, and rather than examining that this AfD has devolved into off-topic argument. Vanamonde (Talk) 04:53, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Al-Ameen Educational Society

Al-Ameen Educational Society (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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Articles about a non-notable university and its several articles (listed below) that I had nominated through PROD deletion back in October which resulted in deletion. It seems that they were recreated, but nothing has changed in regards to the quality or information about them. Any sources currently used don't mention the school in detail and are only in passing. None of these articles meet GNG. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 01:52, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Appearing notable can be given to any article nominated at an Afd discussion. But appearance is not a requirment. It's whether or not it actually is with sources that qualify in some form of significant coverage. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 00:52, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete all The articles about the colleges clearly aren't notable. The article about the institution might be, but from what I can the references are all either primary or extremely bias, trivial, PR puff pieces. Especially the ones from The Hindu. Which clearly aren't up to Wikipedia's standards. So the article isn't worth keeping unless someone can find references that are. --Adamant1 (talk) 00:21, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Merge: Merge all pages associated with the subject to the primary subject, which I believe is likely Al-Ameen Educational Society. I did see a few reliable sources on the primary subject, not each individual department of it. Add sections in the primary page about the various colleges, if relevant and reliable sources are available. Multi7001 (talk) 02:38, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I am the author of these articles, I leave it to all users for consideration. If not possible to keep it as separate, it can be merged. DreamSparrow Chat 17:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'd be fine with merging the articles as long as the target article does not become a dump for un-referenced material or material that is only sourced to primary references. If someone can pick out the few good lines and references from each article and just merge them though without the other stuff I'm fine with it being used as an alternative to deletion. --Adamant1 (talk) 19:17, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There still needs to be sufficient established notability for the primary page. There have been countless deletion noms from high-scale American institutions like Princeton that attempted having separate pages for colleges, but there must be reason for a primary page first, then all other extensions merge, if relevant. There might be insufficient reliable sources in this case. Multi7001 (talk) 03:45, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't disagree. Which is why I said we should only merge the articles if there are good sources to do it with. Obviously I'm not for merging the articles if what we merge won't at all improve the target. I'd be really surprised if we couldn't find 2 or 3 useable references out of the 8 articles though, but it's possible they just aren't that notable. --Adamant1 (talk) 23:12, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I am eager to see if the primary page, Al-Ameen Educational Society, avoids deletion. The focus should be on that page, and after the AfD nom concludes, the extensions/colleges should be merged, if relevant. Thus far, only seen strong sources and coverage for the institution's founder. Multi7001 (talk) 23:40, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The main page doesn't have enough to survive with sourcing, etc. The article on the school's founder has better sourcing and the sources used on the school's article's are more about him than anything else. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 23:52, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It might after the other articles are merged or redirected. There's really no way to tell until then though. I guess that's kind an inherent issue with "mass" nominations like this one. Not to say the articles shouldn't have been nominated this way, but doing so does make it a little harder to suss out the best option for all the articles involved in it. --Adamant1 (talk) 23:58, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I nominated as a mass because I had gotten them deleted after PRODDING them just last year as I stated in my nomination. For some reason, they were restored and all had failed per my original PROD nomination. So much so, the navbox that no longer exists for these articles was deleted because it was all red links. I think that if a prod deleted an article then it had merits to be. And if it were recreated, it was probably due to a deletion review discussion, but I didn't find one and the articles haven't changed in any form whatsoever post-recreation. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 00:08, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately (or maybe not) it's pretty easy to re-create articles that have been deleted through the PROD process without any discussion or anything. At least you were able to get them deleted that way in the first place. Normally it's pretty hard for PRODs of schools to not be removed on sight. --Adamant1 (talk) 00:31, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No, it doesn't. Stop saying it does when you haven't read those links that are used as sources. All of those "sources" don't help the article pass notability. Not a single one of them talks about the school in-depth nor prove any notability. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 20:44, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Whatever the case is with the references or lack of them it's perfectly fine to have a merge discussion in an AfD. In fact, it's probably better to have it here where people will actually see and participate in the discussion, instead of on some random talk pages that no one will look at. Let alone participate in. --Adamant1 (talk) 23:12, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Adamant1, this Afd may interest you since this is the same keep voter who's only here to go after me over one thing and claim that since I've nominated the article I'm causing a problem. And is making false accusations against me. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 19:36, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be careful with pinging specific people so it doesn't look like WP:CANVASS. If certain people are repeatedly making accusations toward you or causing problems in multiple AfDs that you've nominated the best thing to do is to report them to ANI. Reading over that AfD, it looks like both Venkat TL and Valjean are both bludgeoning, making personal statements, and have WP:COMPETENCE issues. --Adamant1 (talk) 19:43, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not trying to canvass, just to alert the behavior and as to why this editor has voted keep. It's a major concern here as over there and on other discussion venues. Because as I've said and as you have said, their behavior is something I've noticed on Afd's where they vote keep since the article exists and find one or two links and thus they think it's notable. Even after repeated instance of trying to ask them how does it pass GNG, they don't respond to that issue. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 19:50, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I know your not. It's still better to air on the side of caution though. I'm not going to vote in the other AfD, but I did leave a comment about the neutrality of references. Hopefully that helps. People often confuse what works in an article with what works for notability in an AfD, when they aren't really the same. For instance it's usually fine to cite a social media link in an article if it's supported by a better references, but no one can claim a social media shows the topic is notable. A lot of people don't know that though. So I'd give Venkat TL the benefit of the doubt that they just don't know the difference, rather then reading malicious intent into their actions. Not that I'm saying you are, just giving my perspective on your disagreement. If you do enough of these you'll learn eventually that it's mostly pointless trying to discuss things with people. 99% of the time people aren't going to change their vote or admit their wrong just because you lay out a well reasoned argument for why they should and are. It's not confined to just keep voters either. --Adamant1 (talk) 20:15, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus of the weaker variety. A move should be considered per Chess' comments. Daniel (talk) 13:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Chutzpa Productions

AfDs for this article:
Chutzpa Productions (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This was a 2015 keep, however I think it's time to look at this in light of current notability standards. This was not discussed at the time, but is an interview/review. I looked through those on their press site as suggested, and they're interviews mostly with Hecht, so not independent. This may be the exception, but I'm not sure it's a reliable source. I also explored creating an article on Hecht as suggested at the AfD, but I don't think there's the sourcing there either. Thoughts? (Will ping contributors to the AfD in a comment) Star Mississippi 16:38, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sources were included in the last discussion. Now again. It's the article space work that doesn't get done. gidonb (talk) 03:29, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Sound Cloud
  2. Tehran Times - “Forgotten on Sinjar” centers on the overlooked and almost forgotten genocide of the Yazidi people. It sheds light on a remarkable story of Christians, Muslims and Jews, who came together to save women and children that the world had forgotten.
  3. Izzy Stream Israel TV
  4. Times Will Tell (a podcast by Times of Israel)
  5. Times of Israel article
  6. Critics At Large - following is a quote by Hecht in a review authored by Shlomo Schwartzberg, a film critic and teacher at Ryerson University, Toronto: “Festivals are the lifeline of an independent filmmaker or for that matter any filmmaker, Jewish or not.  Hot Docs is the biggest one. Being in a festival like Hot Docs gets your film noticed. After having two films in it for two years in a row, I can tell you that this alone gives you credibility in the very secluded and often snobbish documentary community. I'm not part of the clique, I do my own thing, and Hot Docs has been amazing in giving me a forum to showcase my work. Indeed it has, as one will discover after some deeper research into his work and the films he has produced. WP:Notability can certainly be elusive in situations like this one. Perhaps my experiences as an NPP reviewer/trainer, and retired TV producer helped guide my search for sources and more information. Based on what I've gleaned, Chutzpa Productions is notable, as is Igal Hecht. If an editor has the time to do the research, the article could be expanded to include a section about Hecht, or perhaps a stand alone BLP is an option worth considering. As a sidebar - I wanted to share this little tidbit about notability as it has proven quite useful in some of my training exercises for the NPP school. Atsme 💬 📧 02:23, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • and slightly too to @Gidonb as it's similar. So many interviews with Hecht. Do they really establish creative notability? It doesn't seem clear whether they work in a way they don't for the company since he's not independent of it. Star Mississippi 14:25, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thank you for your diligence and for asking questions. I have no doubt that the sources in my list establish notability - see WP:NRV. The few sources I found (in 10 minutes or less & there are more) are indeed "independent of the subject" and are not produced by Chutzpuh or Hecht or affiliated in some way (advertising, press releases, autobiographies, subject's website, etc.). If you get a chance, please read User talk:Atsme#Notability as there are many parallels relative to notability in general.

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: It appears the owner of the company is more notable than his actual production company. The only source that convinces me this could have an ounce of GNG is this Times of Israel article. Do we have anymore of this? Even in Hebrew? Relisting because I am not convinced at this point and I don't think other reviewers will be, either, that this subject merits inclusion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 00:21, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

hi Star they are interviews with him, and they discuss him - if someone/some company is the featured focus of an article, than that is legitimate RS.I wouldn't think that's the same as churnalism, which is basically republishing a press release form the company. As far as I understood, if someone is the feature of an article, then it counts, as longs as its not a replication of a press release? Happy to be corrected of course! Deathlibrarian (talk) 11:50, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 08:42, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Move to Igal Hecht. While the sources Atsme have provided demonstrate notability, the notable entity isn't this production company, but the filmmaker himself. It would seem like Hecht is effectively synonymous with this company to the point that a find+replace of "Chutzpah Productions" with "Igal Hecht" in addition to a move would result in no practical difference to the article itself. On a more pragmatic basis the article would no longer have to be considered under WP:NORG in that case. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 19:40, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) ASTIG️🎉 (HAPPY 2022) 16:00, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

List of Bilibili original programming

List of Bilibili original programming (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable video hosting site. All references are WP:PRIMARY Whiteguru (talk) 21:52, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.

    The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability#Stand-alone lists, which says, "One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list." I will show below that "Bilibili original programming" has been treated as "a group or set by independent reliable sources".

    Sources

    1. 李禾子 (2020-11-28). "花大钱搞自制内容，B站怎么想的？" [Spending a large amount of money to product original content, what is Bilibili thinking] (in Chinese). Sina Corporation. Archived from the original on 2021-12-31. Retrieved 2021-12-31.
    2. 初霁 (2020-10-13). "自制内容收视率高 B站就"破圈"成功了？" [Original content has high ratings. Bilibili successfully "broke the circle"?]. BT财经 (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2021-12-31. Retrieved 2021-12-31 – via Sina Corporation.
    Merge to Bilibili

    I am worried that a merge to Bilibili would be either undue weight or would result in the loss of some of the content.

    General notability guideline

    There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow the subject to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

    Cunard (talk) 11:52, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 08:41, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep/Draftify Article needs significant cleanup, expansion and additional sources, Bilibili is China-only, and all sources are currently primary. These are obstacles the article has to overcome, that much I agree with the nominator. But, the premise of the AfD is not satisfactory to me. If Bilibili is not a notable video service in any form, Bilibili should be the target? That's a whole can of worms, which is why I'd like to focus on the state of the article. Just how new the article is, is a problem. It was nominated for AfD barely a day after creation - and even if other editors came across, a lack on interest in this subject area and scarcity of English-language sources are barriers to improvement. So, I'd say that a more suitable solution is tagging the article for primary sources/other issues, to flag it to others, but given it's entirely primary at the moment it's understandable if that's not acceptable. That's why I think the best solution would be myself and hopefully others - stepping in and to help improve this article. If participants believe it must be removed from mainspace immediately, moving it to draftspace or userspace is a solution that would work. I've gathered at least 5 reliable (at least as far as I can tell) secondary sources after just a quick search, and believe I can both expand the article, and replace at least some of the existing sources. This source in particular indicates that they have far more original series than the article currently lists, for example. However, given the numbers listed there alone, I also think it's likely that article expansion - if I plan and implement it properly - would substantially increase the size of the article, which could hurt the case to merge (given it's a list, WP:SIZESPLIT is limited at best for this discussion anyway, but I figured I'd address this.) I'll get started on implementing some changes shortly - reducing primary sources below like, 50%, much less 10-20% will be difficult, but I'll focus on expansion first, then replacing- input, thoughts and help expanding the article is welcome! Canadianerk (talk) 23:35, 3 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per WP:HEY, WP:SIZESPLIT. Since the AfD started, this list has been quite significantly expanded, so much so that a merge would make the Bilibili page far WP:TOOLONG. Cunard above has also shown that there appears to be coverage of these series as a group in Chinese, thus also meeting WP:NLIST. While this uses primary sources too much, this is a problem that can be fixed by cleanup, which deletion is not. Link20XX (talk) 05:46, 7 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 11:29, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lathan Toland

Lathan Toland (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The subject of this article fails WP:NACTOR and WP:BIO, and I failed to find any coverage about them on Google. Additionally, the subject of this article has requested deletion of the article (WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE) in the IRC Help channel. JavaHurricane 08:17, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Tone 12:30, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Flat No.4B

Flat No.4B (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non notable film with no major cast members. Fails WP:NFILM with no reviews from notable publications as well as WP:N due to the paucity of other references. Has been made by a single purpose editor whose name also indicates conflict of interest Jupitus Smart 07:33, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am unsure how this is considered well sourced. For your reference we consider only references from notable publications while evaluating notability, and a list of such publications can be found at WP:ICTFFAQ. The quality of the references already on the page are listed below
  • [15] has 1 small line which says the lead actor won a best debutant actor award. The award is not notable and as with a lot of awards in Kerala, it is quite evident that award was bought by the actor, with the organisers adding that many films were not considered as they were not submitted. Also WP:NOTINHERITED applies here.
  • [16] is 6 lines in a small press release type article from Times of India. Also to be noted here is that the banner is Kautilya Films which is also the name of the editor who created this Wikipedia article.
  • [17] is a listing of theatres in Thrissur and the movies that they were showing on a particular day. Unsure if this adds any value to the article apart from indicating that the movie was released in a run down theatre while the other biggies occupied the bigger theatres.
  • [18] is a listing of theatres in Thrissur as above
  • [19] is dead
  • [20] is a press release
  • [21] is just a listing of the movie
  • [22] is also dead
  • [23] is also dead

WP:NFILM requires 2 reviews from major publications. I was unable to find any review - from sources which are reliable or even from those considered unreliable. Also with 22 IMDB ratings [24] it is quite evident that the movie did not get a wide release which would have made it notable, or even worthy of reviewing by publications. Delete it should be. Jupitus Smart 16:43, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - first, WP:NFILM does not require reviews but rather lists the existence of film reviews as possible evidence of notability. Secondly, dead links could be retrieved using archives - it doesn't mean that sources do not exist, it requires clean up. Your claim that IMDb ratings indicate the kind of release a movie received is not based on any factual information. Also, notoability of films does not derive from how big their release was. As for the user who created the film article being named just as the production company - it still remains in the form of a speculation, which I personally do believe too but can't prove, nor does it matter as far as the film's notability is concerned anyway. Shahid • Talk2me 13:57, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Shshshsh: Two reviews are actually required when it does not meet WP:GNG or if it does not meet any of the other requirements at WP:NFILM. Please indicate how this meets WP:GNG from the quality of references as discussed above. Also it is quite evident from the URL of the deadlinks that they are nothing more than picture galleries which also does not impart any notability - meaning finding archives also won't be very useful. I was not using the IMDB ratings as a metric of notability, but merely implying that the lack of coverage in reliable sources, which is a required metric for us, is a reason why nobody has watched this movie. I would also request you to indicate why notability is met, instead of harping that notability is met without any factual basis. You may choose to ignore the conflict of interest provided you can indicate notability is met, in which case cleanup would suffice, but in the absence of coverage in reliable sources this does not meet the requirements to remain. Jupitus Smart 14:41, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Let's agree to disagree. :) If the community decides to delete it, so be it. My entire perception of Wikipedia, especially in regard to which articles should stay and which shouldn't, is different, I guess. I always improve Indian cinema-based articles which are up for deletion, and I would do with this film, which I know nothing about, too, if I had more time. Shahid • Talk2me 15:06, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I believe we both are inclusionists as I noticed in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Umma (1960 film) and in some other discussions. I am also happy that someone is actually believing in the need for protecting Malayalam movie articles and would have been more glad if you had showed up earlier when some of the classic oldies were deleted (Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Gajakesariyogam among others). But this movie is not one among those which is why I have nominated this for deletion. I might also nominate the lead Riaz M. T. which is also probably made by the same syndicate. Happy editing. Jupitus Smart 01:54, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. Lacks reliable reviews for NFILM and no indication of meeting GNG. Considering the film is from 2014, its not unreasonable to expect a couple of reviews to show up online. However, offline sources may exist. -- Ab207 (talk) 15:43, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 00:08, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 00:37, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – AssumeGoodWraith (talk | contribs) 04:05, 24 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 07:11, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Levente Révész

Levente Révész (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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WP:BLP of a young racing driver who has only participated in very minor series and seems to at most be notable only for one event (signing to race in FREC). A WP:BEFORE search returns some WP:ROUTINE coverage of race results, but very little signficant coverage from independent sources. Probably a case of WP:TOOSOON. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 06:05, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ✗plicit 11:30, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sherman Pendergarst

AfDs for this article:
Sherman Pendergarst (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:MMABIO notability critera, he does not have 3 fights in a top tier promotion, his highest ranking by Fight Matrix was #72 in the world. WP:GNG is also failed, majority of his coverage is through routine sporting report. ♡RAFAEL♡(talk) 04:46, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to It's Such a Beautiful Day (film). ✗plicit 00:09, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Admin note: This closure was overturned at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2022 January 12. Sandstein 07:52, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Everything Will Be OK

Everything Will Be OK (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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this is the first part of It's Such a Beautiful Day (film) and everything said here can be merged into it HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 03:48, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 07:20, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Trotters, North Dakota

Trotters, North Dakota (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The old church here is hugely photogenic and is endlessly photographed, in no small part because it stands alone by the side of the road, a short distance from an abandoned gas station which appears to have opened in the mid 1980s, replacing a pair of buildings on the opposite side of the road. Sources imply those buildings included a store at some point, but this is another place where there's no sign anyone actually lived here. Mangoe (talk) 03:25, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The coverage is interesting, though I don't know that I'd call it extensive, as it is more or less the same story repeated at intervals, with some variation due to the passage of time. But more importantly, it's about the post office and the postmaster, and there's precious little about any town except for the assumption that there was one, and some passing mention of the church. It tends to ratify my analysis that the only thing ever here was the store/PO and the church, and that there was never any encompassing settlement. I think the notability claim is a stretch at best, but if it survives, it wouldn't be an article about a town. Mangoe (talk) 04:19, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That is not how discussions have gone of late, and in any case, the bigger issue here is that the evidence is that this was not a "community". It was a post office operating out of a store. We have routinely deleted these. Mangoe (talk) 03:25, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"of Trotters, N. D., being old respected settlers of this community" (The Wahpeton Times, May 28, 1916); "Two inland communities, Golva and Trotters" (The Bismarck Tribune, May 4, 1950); "ranch in the Trotters community" (The Bismarck Tribune, May 6, 1952); "John A. Gorrell of the Trotters community" (The Bismarck Tribune, Apr. 27, 1961); "ranch in the Trotters community" (The Bismarck Tribune, Apr. 28, 1961); "settled in the Trotters community" (The Bismarck Tribune, Apr. 2, 1981); "in the Trotters community" (The Bismarck Tribune, Jun. 11, 2006) Doremo (talk) 04:05, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. ✗plicit 11:55, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Zombie Beach

AfDs for this article:
Zombie Beach (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Previous discussion ended in no consensus, however, this film still does not have enough to pass WP:NFILM. Merely being shown at Festivals does not guarantee notability. Hopefully a second discussion will come with a firm result. DonaldD23 talk to me 02:00, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. DonaldD23 talk to me 02:00, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. DonaldD23 talk to me 02:00, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I'm finding coverage for the director, who looks like he is probably notable, but I'm not really finding anything for the film in specific. I'll keep digging, though. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 07:11, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. I'll grant that I was the nominator the first time, but neither the issues nor the sourcing here have actually changed. An editor removed the maintenance tags in October, without actually addressing the substance of the reasons why they were added in the first place: there's absolutely no evidence of WP:GNG-worthy media coverage about the film being shown here at all, except for a brief glancing mention of the film's existence in an article about its director (which is not enough in and of itself). Simply being shown at film festivals is not a notability freebie in the absence of published reviews of the film by professional film critics in real media, and "notability because awards" is not automatically fulfilled by every award presented by just any old film festival that exists: that attaches only to a narrow elite tier of film festivals (Cannes, Berlin, Toronto, Sundance, etc.) whose awards can be shown to garner media coverage, and not to film festivals whose awards have to be cited to the festival's own self-published website about itself because media coverage doesn't exist. That is, an award has to be a notable award (i.e. an award that the media considers important enough to cover as news) in order to make its winners notable for winning it. But the award claims here are cited to primary sources, not media coverage, which means they aren't notability-making awards. Nothing stated here is "inherently" notable enough to exempt the film from having to be sourced a lot better than this. Bearcat (talk) 18:34, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 00:11, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete: Concur with deletion statements made thus far. If festival awards were to contribute to notability, at least one review would be expected out of the festival to meet GNG. — 2pou (talk) 02:27, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. ✗plicit 00:37, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Baxter Taylor

Baxter Taylor (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I found nothing that shows this singer is notable. SL93 (talk) 01:57, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete but. I thought the same, but the question is whether: "Taylor discovered that his song "Marie Laveau" had become a hit, recorded by Dr. Hook and the Medicine Show in 1971 and Bobby Bare in 1973. In 1975, over 12 years after it was written, Taylor and his co-writer Shel Silverstein received a BMI Songwriting Award for the song." means that subject passes WP:GNG due to receiving an award. Jdcooper (talk) 17:56, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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The result was delete. ✗plicit 04:28, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

List of unreleased role-playing video games

List of unreleased role-playing video games (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No per-game sources (the last used citation was taken in 2008) with a large amount of WP:GAMECRUFT. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 00:23, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ✗plicit 04:29, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Letha Weapons

Letha Weapons (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails the GNG. All the refs are trivial coverage or name drops along with other porn stars with hugely augmented busts. Wouldn't have even passed the later versions of PORNBIO. GoldenAgeFan1 (talk) 00:21, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:09, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. ✗plicit 04:33, 7 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Evdile Koçer

Evdile Koçer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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There is not enough independent and reliable sources to prove its notability. If we take a look at the sources in the Kurdish Wikipedia article, this one is mostly an interview (non-independent), here is a poem of him, and this one is completely an interview. The only source in the English article is this, and it mentions about his visit to a foundation, which doesn't provide us any notable information to add to the article. Nanahuatl (talk) 23:05, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Previously nominated via WP:PROD, ineligible for soft deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 23:59, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

--Cewbot (talk) 00:02, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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The result was delete. ✗plicit 04:30, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sayyid Ahmed Amiruddin

Sayyid Ahmed Amiruddin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Filled with primary sources and dubious claims, this BLP appears heavily edited by either COI or the subject. I invoke WP:TNT, not notability, as basis for deletion. Ifnord (talk) 00:03, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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