User talk:Modun

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Again, welcome! paul2520 (talk) 14:09, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

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Vasiliy Molodtsov moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Vasiliy Molodtsov, does not have enough sources and citations as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Jmertel23 (talk) 13:09, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

• Hello! Yes, I understand that there are no links in the article. There were no links in the same article.--Modun (talk) 13:16, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

About the Tsagaan Sar dispute

I am now aware that calling the holiday an "Arctic holiday" is the equivalent of calling Nowruz (the Persian new year) an "Arab holiday" and is offensive to the Mongols and the people living in the Arctic. When I first edit this article, I was not aware that this is a Buddhist holiday. My edits to this article does not represent either the Mongols nor the ethnic groups living in the Arctic. I'm pretty sure you are either Mongol or Siberian that knows more knowledge about the holiday. The reason why I think that this holiday was related to the Arctic is because of the holiday's shamanistic origins (if you look up on Google, any websites will tell anyone that it was shamanistic origins right before Buddhism came). My goal here is not to offend anyone of any race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc. I was not aware about the true meaning of the holiday. As the Lunar New Year is coming up, I want to apologize to all Mongols and the people living in the Arctic. It was not my intent to offend anyone, I think it was just a mistake and misunderstanding about the Mongol culture. If you want to explain more about this holiday (including the myths and facts), you are more welcome. I have IRL friends who are Chinese and I habe respected their traditional customs. Again, I apologize for hurting Mongol traditions. I wasn't aware that it was only a Mongol holiday as other ethnic groups that I mentioned in my edits that their own new year. I promised that I will do more careful research on these ethnic groups. I always wanted to go to Mongolia for its beauty of the people, culture and the land. I do know that the Lunar New Year is a happy time for celebration. I want to address this matter because you are telling me that my edits could insult the Mongols and the people living in the Arctic. If I do, I am sincerely sorry about the lack of understanding the Mongol culture. I hope anything like this will never happen again in the future. SpinnerLaserz (talk) 17:53, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

March 2020

Hello, I'm Materialscientist. I noticed that you made a change to an article, Tundra Yukaghir language, but you didn't provide a source. I’ve removed it for now, but if you’d like to include a citation to a reliable source and re-add it, please do so! If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. Materialscientist (talk) 10:54, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Transliteration of the Yakut language

Good day. Can I answer your questions with a question? Anyway, эhиги саха5ыт ду? --Miraisenn (talk) 19:51, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Дорооболоруҥ, Miraisenn. Сөп, мин сахабын. Но сейчас это никакого отношения не имеет к этому делу. Проблема в том что вы используете систему транслитерация в иноязычном сегменте википедии, которая ни на чём не основания и непонятно как и кем создана. В википедии так не работают, там всё организованно и существует своя система. Для передачи к примеру в англоязычном сегменте википедии нужно использовать наиболее понятную систему передачи на латинскую письменность якутского языка, чтобы средний англоязычный читатель смог прочитать, то что написанно. Поэтому лучше использовать Общий тюрский алфавит так он пока наиболее подходит для передачи среднестатистического тюркского текста, например сравнительного анализа языка или передачи якутских названий местностей. Можно было бы в теории использовать Яналиф, которым якутский язык использовал в 1929-1938гг., но средний англоязычный читатель смог бы прочитать текст. Алфавит Новгородова для этих целий неподходит поскольку является более архаичной системой и вряд ли был бы элементарно читабельным. Ещё одна проблема для последних систем, то что не все буквы из этих двух последних алфавитов кодифицированы в компьютере. К примеру латинская буква Ь ь (Ы ы) до сих пор не кодифицирована несмотря на все заявки в Unicode. Вместо неё используют похожие буквы.--Modun (talk) 00:16, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Средний англоязычный читатель тем более не знает тюркского алфавита, который еще и не очень подходит для якутского языка, фонетика которого отличается от остальных тюркских языков. С вашей точки зрения лучше тогда использовать русскую транслитерацию вперемешку с немецким, так более понятно будет средним англоязычным читателям. Честно говоря не вижу смысла в транслитерации якутского языка, кириллица отлично справляется со своей задачей. Но если ее и делать, то лучше использовать транслитерацию основываясь на фонетике самого английского, не используя алфавиты других языков. --Miraisenn (talk) 00:59, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Да средний англоязычный (или иной) читатель не знает общий тюркский алфавит. Но он ему будет более понятен. Транслитерация на английский язык мягко говоря не удобна на практике. К примеру, как бы с помощью английской транслитерации вы написалии бы слово "айыы", "ыйытыы" или другое подобное слово? А Общий тюрский алфавит всё таки специально создан под тюркские языки, и вполне себе справляется с функцией транслитерации на латиницу. К слову никто специально не станет учить кириллицу, поэтому для иноязычных надо транслителировать на латиницу. Особенно когда дело касается других языков.--Modun (talk) 02:56, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Написал бы как ajyy, yjytyy. Нет необходимости использовать общий тюркский алфавит для якутского языка. Излишнее количество непонятных символов символов, которое образуется при его использовании для якутского только вводит в ступор. Как раз грамматика и фонетика якутского языка, которое отличается от других тюркских языков, позволяют нам использовать обычный латинский алфавит (используя диграфы, как gh - ҕ, dj - дь и т.д.). Вы акцентируете внимание на понятность для среднего англоговорящего пользователя, но почему-то все равно настаиваете на использовании непонятного алфавита, а нарочито подчеркивать тюркскость якутского языка считаю неуместным. --Miraisenn (talk) 12:45, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Только это не английская транслитерация. Почемы вы так стараетесь избегать тюркских корней? Как раз якуты знакомы с турецким алфавитом на котором основан общетюрский алфавит. Я не настаиваю что якутский язык писали на турецком алфавите, но хотел бы чтобы для передачи якутских слов и текстов использовался наиболее стандартизированый вариант, которым пока является общетюркский алфавит и на данный момент более менее адекватной алтернативы нету. Общий тюркский алфавит хоть и не идеален, зато наиболее стандартизирован и повторюсь его вполне хватает для транслитерации. К слово те слова которые привёл выше с точки зрения английского языка писались как “ayyy” и “yyytyy”. А ту систему которую привели, ну она мягко говоря ни на чём не основана. Какая то химера из нескольких разных алфавитов. К примеру, почему если вы настаиваете на написании для передачи якутского языка с точки зрения английского, то взяли буквы из эстонского алфавита? Кто установил данный алфавит? У вас есть какие либо ссылки, источники?--Modun (talk) 13:37, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Никто не избегает тюркских корней, это скорее к вам вопрос, почему Вы так стараетесь "тюркизировать" наш язык? Этот наиболее стандартизированный вариант основан на турецком языке, фонетика которого, мягко говоря, отличается от фонетики якутского. Я Вам предоставил адекватную альтернативу, алфавит только с двумя добавочными буквами (ы - õ, ө - ø), а Вы настаиваете на использовании неудобного алфавита для якутского языка в котором семь дополнительных знаков. И это не химера из разных алфавитов, заимствование только из эстонского (õ - ы), в котором этот символ тоже означает похожий звук, а ø - это символ из МФА, с которым ознакомлен любой человек, который учился в школе. Официально письменность якутского языка это кириллица, а любые другие системы это все догадки. Онон эһиги атын түүр омуктарга чугас буола сатыыргытын үчүгэйдик өйдөөбөппүн. Тоҕо саха тылын ханнык эрэ стандартка чугаһата сатыахтаахпытый? Саха тыла бэйэтэ бэйэтинэн хаалыахтаах. Онон ол бу түүрчүлүгү игин манна кыбытар наадата суох. --Miraisenn (talk) 17:54, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Стоп! Это вы настаивали на транслитерации якутского языка средствами английского языка, которого на практике явно не достачно. Ваш вариант содержит буквы которые отсутствуют в английском алфавите, и ничем не подтверждён и не обоснован. У вас есть какие либо авторитетные источники? (Энциклопедии, словари, учебники или монографии. Ссылки на форум или чей либо блог) Я не пытюсь "тюркизировать" якутский язык, просто для передачи на английский (или иной) латинописьменный язык надо транслителировать некоторые слова или названия. Общий тюркский алфавит хоть основан на турецком алфавите, но не обязательно читается на турецкий варинт. В добавок в отличие от английского языка содержит вообще то почти буквы для передачи якутского языка на латинский алфавит и вполне его хватает. Это система не для использования якутского языка, а всего лишь для передачи якутского языка на латинописьменные тексты!--Modun (talk) 03:01, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Vasiliy Molodtsov

Hello, Modun. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Vasiliy Molodtsov".

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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia! UnitedStatesian (talk) 20:20, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 24

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Yakut language, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page IPA.

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Overriding a merge

I see you've recently attempted to override a merge against consensus and in doing so restored a substantial amount of WP:FRINGE material. Please see dicsussion here. :bloodofox: (talk) 07:53, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

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Reverting my edit

Hello, could you kindly explain why I cannot add the sheet music into this page?--Russian Federal Subjects (talk) 05:59, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

• Sorry, just wrong your translation is understood. it's just a misunderstanding. Add notes, I'll add the signature below.--Modun (talk) 06:45, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Copying licensed material requires attribution

Hi. I see in a recent addition to Udege language you included material from the Russian Wikipedia, which is available under a compatible Creative Commons Licence. That's okay, but you have to give attribution so that our readers are made aware that you copied the prose rather than wrote it yourself. It's also required under the terms of the license. It's done via an edit summary, like I did here. Please make sure that you follow this licensing requirement when copying from compatibly-licensed material in the future. — Diannaa (talk) 16:21, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

• Hi, Diannaa. Okay, next time I'll take it into account. Thanks!

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Erzya

"Official" means nothing. The 2010 census reported 392,941 Mordvin speakers, 36,726 Erzya-Mordvin speakers, and 2025 Moksha-Mordvin speakers. That means, obviously, that most Erzya and Moksha speakers reported their language as "Mordvin". If the ratio of self-reported Erzya to Moksha speakers is representative, then 95% of Mordvin speakers speak Erzya, for 409,000 Erzya speakers. That would be OR, of course, but claiming there are 37,000 Erzya speakers is silly. Unless you have a RS that there were 395,000 Moksha speakers in 2010? — kwami (talk) 07:03, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Kwamikagami, what does mean “nothing”? This is the official information registered by the Russian census of 2010, according to which 36,726 people stated that they speak the Erzyan language in Russia. Do you have other information than mathematical calculus? And yes, this year in Russia a new population census should be held, which will show new information that will clarify a lot.--Modun (talk) 08:41, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

I doubt it will clarify much, because most Erzya will still identify as speaking Mordvin. Unless "Mordvin" has been removed from the census, forcing people to specify Erzya or Moksha?

This is like the census in India, where many people who report their language as "Hindi" do not actually speak Hindi.

By "nothing", I mean that the fact that this is official information has no value. It doesn't matter if the information is official or not, only that it's reliable. And it is reliable, but you need to read the information, not just repeat the words with no understanding of what they mean. If you say there are 37k speakers of Erzya, you show that you don't understand the census results. — kwami (talk) 09:44, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Kwamikagami, The population census records certain trends. Personally, I don't care whether you like these numbers or not. In the end, these are just dry statistics that can be interpreted as you like. In this case, if the Erzya people got drunk with their culture, they would indicate their language as Erzyan, and not Mordovian.

in the end, do you have any alternative data that is not taken from the ceiling?--Modun (talk) 10:42, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

I don't really understand what you're saying. You used figures that you admit were wrong. So what's there to talk about? — kwami (talk) 14:26, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

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Undo edits with references

5.197.251.240, what are doing?! you cancel edits added with links to the source! Your edits are not formalized at all!--Modun (talk) 13:32, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

But they are sourced5.197.251.240 (talk) 13:33, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

And you started it first. I have sourced it first in change description, so ther is no point in arguing. 5.197.251.240 (talk) 13:37, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

they are not under any sources. In the articles, at least in general, no sources are indicated. This is first! Secondly, the instructions for transliteration of Cyrillic texts (and corresponding languages) contain instructions on how to carry out such transliteration. You are acting against them! Moreover, you initially unknown based on nothing, carry out your unknown transliteration, and then you already cite a source that you yourself even checked!--Modun (talk) 13:43, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

According to it KNAB is not an acceptable system, so you have to change romanization for Yakutian. And I have added sources in the article and originally I mentioned source in change description.5.197.251.240 (talk) 13:49, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

KNAB was the subject of a separate article and transliteration. Now we are talking about transliteration of a completely different language, and moreover, transliteration designed according to the instructions. And most importantly, designed under the sources that you willfully canceled!--Modun (talk) 13:53, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

NO! I removed my romanization first and I just reverted it back and put a source in the article. You are using a lot of double standards in relations to the KNAB. Please stop. 5.197.251.240 (talk) 13:57, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Are either of you more familiar with another language, perhaps русский or Azərbaycan? It might be best to communicate in that if so? There seems to be some difficulties with communication here, possibly related to a language barrier. Mako001 (C)  (T)  14:00, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

what double standards? That dispute concerned a separate language, as a result of which we agreed on the opinion that the KNAB system should be used as optimal. I repeat! The dispute now concerns ANOTHER LANGUAGE!--Modun (talk) 14:00, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Sorry for dropping in uninvited. But I was the one who made the mass revert of Azeri IP's edits, so I have got some earlier involvement. I have been watching this unfold for a little while now. Mako001 (C)  (T)  14:02, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia: Naming_conventions (Cyrillic) says that "Some collections of romanization systems" that means that other systems such as Alworth are possible to use. And it was you who was continually houding me, so pls pls pls stop. 5.197.251.240 (talk) 14:08, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Mako001!👋🏻 Yes you are right! We definitely have a language barrier here. But I don't know if the anonymous IP speaks Russian or not? In any case, this is all weird. For example, I have to communicate through a translator, so excuse me if that.--Modun (talk) 14:11, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

the instructions generally list the transliteration systems used. And unfortunately it is limited. In any case, the edits are fixed by links in the article in accordance with the above list.--Modun (talk) 14:15, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Mako001, in any case, I would like to file a complaint with the administrators. Or bring in a third party. But the language barrier prevents me from doing it. In general, how could I do this?--Modun (talk) 14:18, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Can we end the dispute? I provided a source and this system is easy to read for foreigners, the essential criteria for romanization. And Wikipedia: Naming_conventions (Cyrillic) says that "Some collections of romanization systems" that means that other systems such as Alworth are possible to use.I didn't start revering, it was you. 5.197.251.240 (talk) 14:19, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Oh really? And why do you then change, at your own discretion, the already existing transliterations to your own, which are already readable for foreign-language readers? In addition, you formally bring the source to your transliteration, you didn’t even bother to check it!--Modun (talk) 14:29, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Common, this system is much closer to the standard Latin alphabet and is very understandable for an English speaker. And there was only one difference between my first system and source, which I have fixed. So pls, pls can we end it? 5.197.251.240 (talk) 14:33, 4 February 2022 (UTC)