Talk:Azov Brigade

RfC about the neo-Nazi descriptor

Here's the link to the RfC, in case it comes up again: Talk:Azov_Battalion/Archive_2#RfC:_Azov_Battalion. --K.e.coffman (talk) 05:16, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Disinformation

How much of this is actually true and how much is Russian propaganda? It would be good to have this article reviewed in light of current events. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.109.135.14 (talk) 03:57, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

This article is deliberately and regularly edited with disinformation describing Azov as extremist and neo-nazi guilty of military crimes, with questionable sources as proof. 96.250.56.147 (talk) 04:49, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Are you claiming The Nation, BBC, FBI, US Congress, and UN Human Rights Office are all questionable sources? Lvsz (talk) 01:04, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Azov has become so integrated into Ukrainian culture that any attempts to call them out as the festering disease they are results in being marked an enemy. - D — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2D80:9E04:CB00:96A:8160:B1B4:8B90 (talk) 04:46, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

This article seems to be a bit better sourced and balanced than what is in this wiki. The group appears to be pretty fringe, other than having some folks in the national guard due to their role in Maidan. They political wing received less than 2% of popular vote last election. That seems about on par with right wing groups in other western countries these days. (sadly) https://www.vice.com/en/article/3ab7dw/azov-battalion-ukraine-far-right — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.109.135.14 (talk) 04:21, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

Picture without proof

The linked picture have the notice "citation needed" i understand it like a proof is missing. The soldier / guy in the picture wearing german military clothes, helmet and helmet cover (Helmbezug). Non combatant signs are visible. That means it isn't sure that he is a combatant = regular forces and official member of any state or military organisation. Since it has already an questionmark i would recommend to remove the picture. --89.145.60.157 (talk) 11:32, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

there is no western press in this article?

no mention of western support for a neo-Nazi terrorist group? 2804:D59:9012:4700:DCE:DE03:8D70:D06B (talk) 23:04, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

We don't talk about that here, it's very inconvenient for western interests. You should know that Wikipedia is part of western media, and so must conform to our interests. We can't allow facts about our support for Azov to get out 2A00:23C4:4EE0:A201:F42D:85DD:AAF:FFD (talk) 22:04, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

@2804:D59:9012:4700:DCE:DE03:8D70:D06B right okay 🙄 2600:1008:B149:7AEC:FD6C:BEF4:411D:F89 (talk) 18:49, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

IP please ignore the other IP (that sounds weird). That's not true whatsoever. See WP:NOTCENSORED. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 19:59, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

This. We do not censor anything and encourage fair and unbiased access to everyone. Except for those Chinese wikipedians, we don't talk about them — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C4:4EE0:A201:D165:AAF1:3D25:3E2C (talk) 01:48, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Yes we do. Please be nice. While Chinese Wikipedia may not be nearly as large (or possibly as uncensored, I don't know I don't speak Chinese) as enWiki, they're still part of Wikipedia. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 02:15, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Azov

This article does not give a lot of information. Most of it is repeating itself several times. Sjould be shortened to 2-4000 words. 89.8.93.233 (talk) 22:09, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

IP edit, 27 February 2022

Are they fighting at the moment in the war? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:F2:BF0F:5900:50A8:435E:6BA1:9029 (talk) 08:24, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

I know this is a late reply, but yes, they are. —AFreshStart (talk) 20:09, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

False information

Operating in Ukraine this Azov movement appears to have little public support. Only one far-right party, Svoboda, is represented in Ukraine’s parliament, and only holds one seat.

President Putin is trying to paint Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's government, who is both Jewish and had family members die in the Holocaust as “Nazis supported by NATO,”

• Biased sourced informatiton
• This article is being used for propoganda

Editdone (talk) 14:06, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

References

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:28, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 February 2022

Can you please provide a credible source as to how this group is “right-wing extremists”?Thanks! I believe they’re neo-nazi fascists and in no way represent the right wing. My source being the only evidence I have seen regarding the verbiage of them being right wing extremists are all from media outlets. Unless Wikipedia is as corrupt as rest of the world, which wouldn’t surprise me given the extremely growing presence of government intervention in censorship. Hope to hear back sooner than later. 98.253.192.54 (talk) 07:02, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: Neo-Nazism and fascism are far-right ideologies. This is well established. wwklnd (talk) 09:19, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

The IP is right. Nazism (National Socialism) is a hybrid mix of left and right-wing ideas. Interestingly, the existence of the Azov Battalion does lend credibility to Putin's statement that he's invading Ukraine to rid it of Nazis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.130.10.198 (talk) 18:06, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Reposting my reply from my User Talk page: I'm sorry, but this position is contrary to essentially all established political science, and the idea that Nazism and fascism aren't right-wing is a pretty fringe position to take. Regardless of the word "socialism" present in their name, the German Nazis were strongly opposed to communism and labour unions. They did oppose laissez-faire capitalism, but the economic system of Nazi Germany was quite solidly capitalist. Similarly, the economics of fascism are generally corporatist and focused on class collaboration rather than the class struggle of leftist politics. Best regards, wwklnd (talk) 19:13, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

It is not a fringe position, it's a literal fact. No legitimate political scientist thinks the Nazis or Fascists were right wing. Mussolini was a literal communist before creating Fascism. The vast majority of the Nazi party leaders were socialists. The right wing believes in natural hierarchy and the individual when it comes to property and fiscal rights; that's the LITERAL definition per the original meaning of the term in France, you can even read this on Wikipedia. To say otherwise is a lie, I don't care if you're a professor or a self-proclaimed "political scientist." I like how your laughable logic is "white racism or nationalism = right wing" yet Arab nationalism, Black nationalism, etc, are never called this. Wikipedia is a joke because of people like you; racism and/or nationalism are NOT automatically right wing. To say this is a lie. Right and Left are concepts that LITERALLY only deal with property and fiscal ownership, with far left being communal ownership, and far right being individual ownership. That's it, nothing more, nothing less. Stop lying, stop citing liars and pseudoscientists. 50.245.51.73 (talk) 14:26, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

I'm sorry you feel that way, but you are wrong and your comment shows a profound lack of familiarity with the subject. Despite your claims to the contrary, it is a fringe position, and Mussolini being a communist earlier in his life does not mean that fascism is not a right-wing ideology, and the claim that the majority of Nazi party leaders were socialists is just flat out wrong. Ernst Röhm and the Strasser brothers were opposed to capitalism, yes, but they were staunchly anti-communist and their anti-capitalism was rooted in anti-semitism and the idea of "Jewish finance capital". Claiming that political Left and Right only have to do with property relations and ownership is also inaccurate, both in a historical context and in contemporary political science. Best regards, wwklnd (talk) 14:50, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

The very first Nazi prison camp, Dachau, was built to imprison Communists, Social Democrats, and trade unionists. Kind of an odd strategy for a supposedly left-wing party. --Sangdeboeuf (talk) 23:18, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 March 2022

English and french version not correspond to original ukrainian, text has russian nazi propaganda and it should be delete as soon as possible OlgaAlska (talk) 06:45, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 07:35, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Agreed, a lot of the claims in this article are either factually untrue, echo Russian propaganda (eg claiming Azov is neo nazi when there's 3 seperate units called Asov, 2 of which have only existed for a few weeks, and the original unit was purged of nazis. PompeyTheGreat (talk) 19:54, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Request to change wording on political orientation of Asov battalion(s)

1. There are now at least 3 entirely separate Azov battalions, the original national guard unit in Mariupol, and Asov territorial defence volunteer units with a separate chain of command in Kharkiv and Kyiv, the latter two being newly formed units of former civillians raised during the war.

2.Reforms to the structure of Asov and changes to the leadership mean that western sources largely no longer define it as a neo-nazi battalion.

3. Restrictions on Asov have largely been lifted, or are not in force on the other two units with evidence that NATO forces and equipment have been supplied to the Asov unit in Kharkiv, including NLAW anti-tank guided weapons with NATO instructors as per Nexta news agency — Preceding unsigned comment added by PompeyTheGreat (talk • contribs) 19:33, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Do you have more sources for this? A tweet will not cut it, when you have The Guardian and others saying otherwise.. · · · Omnissiahs hierophant (talk) 20:10, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

The tweet is from a news agency, it is not just from a random account. As for the sources on Asov having two entirely separate regiments formed in Kyiv and Kharkiv under a different command (classed as Territorial Defence Units Asov rather than the National Guard unit this article mentions, Asov themselves have posted it onto their telegram groups, saying that these are entirely separate units. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexta PompeyTheGreat (talk) 08:08, 10 March 2022 (UTC)