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Ongoing News Event: Casey White & Vicky White

Hi, I was wondering if the recent ongoing event of prison escape by criminal and maximum security prisoner Casey White, in which he's been helped by a corrections officer named Vicky White (no relation) would be considered notable enough for a Wikipedia entry? The event has been widely covered by national and international news and thus far the pair have evaded being captured (in itself atypical), but at what point does that cross over to being considered notable by wiki standards?

Additionally, I assume if the answer is yes, the article would have to be about this event itself rather than either one of the people involved (tho Casey White was the perpetrator of a 2015 interstate crime spree and convicted of murder in 2022). What are the best practices and naming/titling conventions for something like that?

Coverage: NYTimes, CNN, Newsweek, CBS (national) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SleepyWhippet (talk • contribs) 02:09, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

SleepyWhippet (talk) 02:02, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

@SleepyWhippet: Not something I've been following, but yes, if this does meet the notability criteria at NCRIME, the article should be about the event, not the people (see CRIME)). ClaudineChionh (talk – contribs) 02:15, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, what would a possible title be for the potential wiki Article? SleepyWhippet (talk) 03:06, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

@SleepyWhippet As of now, a possible title could be "tragedy all around". Sigh... 73.127.147.187 (talk) 05:36, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

@I hear you.., very disturbing and sad. SleepyWhippet (talk) 13:17, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Maybe start with “Prison escape of Casey White” and if someone thinks up a better title we can move it. Speatle (talk to me) please ping me when replying to something I said. 15:34, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Or we could have an article about C. White, due to his "interstate crime spree", and include a section on the jailbreak? DS (talk) 17:31, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Draft:Tomoharu Ushida

•  Courtesy link: Draft:Tomoharu Ushida

Hi, recently my draft has been declined. I would like to ask anyone help me to make it better to meet a standard for official Wikipedia page. Thank you. Shalom777br (talk) 19:17, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

@Shalom777br – All I can say is: revise it to meet the general notability guideline, and, since it's a biography, WP:ANYBIO. Traditionally, it means that all statements should be covered with reliable, secondary sources. In addition, multiple outlets must cover it significantly. You may also want to use {{find general sources}} and read WP:BLP since the article is a biography. Thanks. — 3PPYB6 — TALK — CONTRIBS — 19:45, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your advise. By the way, do you want to write about Tomoharu Ushida instead of me, to delete my article and publish yours? Thank you for your attention. Shalom777br (talk) 20:15, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

@Shalom777br Hello and welcome to the Teahouse! I would advise not to ask any specific editor to create an article. However, you can request one at requested biographies. Nobody may pick up your article, but there's a better chance than just asking somebody. Have a good day/night!

Asparagusus (interaction) 21:58, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your advice! I put my request at requested biographies by nacionality (Japan). Have a good day too. Shalom777br (talk) 22:38, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Shalom777br, posting at requested biographies would almost certainly be a waste of your time. ("Requested articles" is a depressing sight, studded with proposed vanity articles.) Your draft looks promising. I haven't clicked on any of the links you provide in the references, but some of these look promising too. I imagine that much of the writing about Ushida uses bland/gushy terms such as "excellent", "precocious", "inspirational", "perceptive", etc; however, some music criticism goes beyond this, saying what it is that makes a performance excellent, inspirational, etc. See if you can find some intelligent, informative criticism of his playing, and try to summarize this criticism and add it to your draft. -- Hoary (talk) 00:01, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your advice. How about this one?

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/blogs/article/the-chopin-piano-competition-day-eight-what-s-in-a-name

Shalom777br (talk) 13:33, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

This article has been created in multiple other languages Tomoharu Ushida. I'm pretty sure it's notable enough to be in Wikipedia. --Deansfa (talk) 19:44, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

After having a closer look, are you the one who creates the article in each version of Wikipedia? [1] [2] [3]. Be careful about doing this, this is not especially recommended. --Deansfa (talk) 19:49, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Just to clarify for any new users, an article existing in other-language Wikipedias doesn't necessarily mean it meets the inclusion criteria for English Wikipedia. Zindor (talk) 19:58, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Just to clarify for any new users, an article existing in 30 other languages has 99% chance to meet inclusion criteria here. Except if this article has been created in all these languages by the same person (which is the case here). --Deansfa (talk) 14:43, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

@Deansfa Why is that not recommended? Is there a WP policy or essay on that? Just wondering. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 05:58, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

@Deansfa I am still curious. When you said "Be careful about doing this, this is not especially recommended" -- is there a policy or essay on this? Also when you say the article might be notable "Except if this article has been created in all these languages by the same person (which is the case here)". Why is that? I would like to learn. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 05:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

I.P, i can see two reasons why it wouldn't be ideal. If there are issues with the version on one wiki it will bring those problems to all the other language wikis it is published at. Secondly, some subjects are treated in more depth in other languages, so a major aspect of the subject could be missed because only one language's sources are used; this can actually result in people being offended. This is a bit of non-issue when it comes to notability however because assessing notability by looking at whether it is included in other languages is an unreliable method (and i'm not sure why Deansfa is extolling the virtues of it). It's best to just assess against our actual inclusion criteria. Zindor (talk) 19:55, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

It's not recommended because it's obvious that it will be an automatic translation in some language. The article in French is totally garbage, the first sentence of the biography is not grammatically correct (no verb). The second sentence uses a tense we don't use for biographies, the other sentences have a strong flavor of automatic translation (weird expression, nonsense, etc). --Deansfa (talk) 23:54, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

@Zindor Well, if there happen to be NO issues with one version on one wiki, that's a good thing!

@Deansfa And yes, automatic translation is always bad. I suppose very few people are actually fluent in many, many languages... but the policy is, or should be, geared toward "not using automatic translations" rather than "do not create the same article in many language Wikipedias". You made it sound like a real policy, and I hadn't seen one -- but I understand the potential issues. Thanks. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 06:44, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Updating of a Page

I have been tasked to update the Aventus Protocol page, but our new content makes reference to Aventus Network and your system is not liking this very much. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aventus_Protocol This is the response I have received and I am now uncertain on how to proceed

Welcome to Wikipedia. I saw that you edited or created Aventus Protocol, and I noticed that your username, "AventusNetwork", may not comply with our username policy. Please note that you may not use a username that represents the name of a company, group, organization, product, service, or website. Examples of usernames that are not allowed include "XYZ Company", "MyWidgetsUSA.com", and "Foobar Museum of Art". However, you are permitted to use a username that contains such a name if it identifies you individually (not your role), such as "Sara Smith at XYZ Company", "Mark at WidgetsUSA", or "FoobarFan87", but not "SEO Manager at XYZ Company". Please also note that Wikipedia does not allow accounts to be shared by multiple people and that you may not advocate for or promote any company, group, organization, product, service, or website, regardless of your username. Please also read our paid editing policy and our conflict of interest guideline. If you are a single individual and are willing to contribute to Wikipedia in an unbiased manner, please request a change of username by completing the form at Special:GlobalRenameRequest, choosing a username that complies with our username policy. If you believe that your username does not violate our policy, please leave a note here explaining why. Thank you. –Skywatcher68 (talk) 14:24, 10 May 2022 (UTC) AventusNetwork (talk) 14:40, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

@AventusNetwork: Hello! The reason you received that message on your talk page is because your username is the same as the company name, which is something that is not permitted here on Wikipedia. In order to comply with Wikipedia's username policy, you should change it to (for example), John at Aventus Network. To request a change in username head to Special:GlobalRenameRequest and fill out the form there with the username you are changing it to. Once your username is changed, please read WP:PAID and WP:COI as it appears you have a Conflict of Interest with the company Aventus Protocol. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 14:44, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

The account has been renamed (now JamieMitchell28). Unfortunately, JamieMitchell28, your edit replaced a well-sourced and formatted article with a poorly sourced and formatted one. The talk page of the article is at Talk:Aventus Protocol - once you've reviewed and complied with our policies on paid editing or editing with a COI (whichever is applicable), which have been linked above, you can make suggestions for updates on that talk page. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:50, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Jamie. I'm sorry that your employers (presumably) have given you an extremely difficult task. Please explain to them that Wikipedia's article is not theirs: not theirs to control, not theirs to update, and especially not theirs to insert what they want to see there. You are welcome to suggest changes on the article's talk page, for other, non-involved editors to evaluate and decide what change to make. Material that is cited to an independent source is the most likely to be incorporated, because Wikipedia has little interest in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is almost entirely interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. If enough material is cited from independent sources to establish notability, a limited amount of uncontroversial factual information may be added from non-independent sources. ColinFine (talk) 17:14, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

If any edits are made, I believe that WP is not interested in info about funding rounds. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 06:02, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Help and guidance needed for new page

can anyone help me to create a page, which I recently did Kbv2024 (talk) 16:09, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

@Kbv2024, hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Can you be more specific about which article you're referring to? I see three drafts and one successfully created article in your contribution history. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:05, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

the draft name is yogesh lakhani Kbv2024 (talk) 03:40, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Link: Draft:Yogesh lakhani. I see it's been repeatedly moved between mainspace and draftspace. @Kbv2024, I took a look at the sources, and the ones I could read did not provide in-depth coverage of the subject. The draft says he won the Dadasaheb Phalke Award, but it seems he actually won one of the other awards mentioned here, which are not nearly as prestigious. The notability of this person seems to be in doubt and the sourcing seems weak. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 13:53, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

User has been blocked as a sock. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 17:15, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Kathy Barnette's Wiki page

Kathy Barnette is in a statistical tie for the Pennsylvania Republican senate primary. She is a notable person and is worthy of a Wikipedia web page, but it was taken down. Is there some reason it can't be put back online? 164.111.127.13 (talk) 16:16, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

The article was deleted per this discussion, which determined that she did not - at that time - meet our notability criteria for politicians. I see it's been repeatedly recreated, but apparently without improvement. The latest version will most likely be deleted soon; the article may be salted against recreation if this continues. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:24, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello IP editor and welcome to the Teahouse! Without digging too far I suspect it has to do with WP:NPOL. Merely being a candidate for a political office is not a notability claim. If the candidate wins the general election or is a major local politician that has received significant coverage in reliable sources then that may be a claim of notability. Look at NPOL and see if Kathy meets any of the criteria listed. If not then that may be your answer. --ARoseWolf 16:27, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks to both of you. 164.111.127.13 (talk) 16:30, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Page is technically still there, however it's a redirect and has been fully protected to prevent it from being recreated again. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 17:15, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Some coverage based on deletion:[4] Of course, WP:EPOCHTIMES. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:42, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Oh joy. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 21:49, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Quite. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:06, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

I don't even know what it says because they want me to give them my email to keep reading. I'd rather not give a source that categorizes that as "censorship" my email. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 14:11, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

@Blaze Wolf, try this one [5], it's not that bad. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:10, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

"the encyclopedia notes" No it doesn't. The encyclopedia isn't a living thing. It's an editor (or deleting admin) that notes that. I find it kinda funny how they are referring to Wikipedia as if it's a living breathing entity. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 17:14, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

I tend to think of us as a sort of hive-mind. Also, whenever some media complains "Wikipedians deleted whatever!", for some reason they forget that that means Wikipedians also created the whatever. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:53, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

I guess Wikipedia's community is sort of a hive-mind. Also that is a very good point. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 17:56, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Maybe a new addition is needed to our Wikifauna: WikiBorg. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:09, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Or an expansion/clarification of WikiBee. --ARoseWolf 18:16, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

I'll stick with WikiSloth. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:51, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Living Person truthful information

Living Person truthful information being remove from the site. So what you do except please? 142.116.50.224 (talk) 02:08, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

On Wikipedia all information we put in article must be verified with independent, reliable sources. So if your edits about someone are being reverted make sure you have a good source backing it up. ― Kaleeb18^Talk_Caleb 02:24, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

This appears to be about Suresh Joachim. The IP has been adding unreferenced content to a biographical article, hence reverted. No content without refs. David notMD (talk) 10:21, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

@IP user, please see WP:NOTTRUTH. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 06:15, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Please help me with my page

Can someone at the TeaHouse with knowledge of creating Wikipedia pages assist me with mine, which although is almost complete, seems to be in limbo. The Page is for a Pro Basketball Player named Kylan Guerra. Thanks. 159.123.253.1 (talk) 13:45, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Link: Draft:Kylan Guerra, created by Ginger Rocky. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 13:47, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Note that the IP asked this same question back in November. See this link. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 13:49, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

After much advice given, the page has been updated with all the recommended improvements. Ginger Rocky (talk) 13:56, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

@Ginger Rocky, there are still issues with the draft - the entire high school career section is uncited, for example, as is the personal life section, there's no cite for Performer of the Year, and the external links section should probably be removed entirely. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:26, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Tough to find High School cited info. How do I remove the External Link section without losing the Reference section? Ginger Rocky (talk) 15:23, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

@Ginger Rocky, if you can't cite a source for something, then remove the information. How did you learn all of that stuff if you didn't have a source for it? I see you did figure out how to remove the external links section. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:30, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Yes, that was a very good point, IP. How does the editor know something if thers is no source? 73.127.147.187 (talk) 05:34, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Okay, I was able to locate a citation from his High School days and added it. I also removed the External Links Section. Hopefully, this will help. Thank you for your guidance. Ginger Rocky (talk) 15:46, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello

How is a info about a new endorsement not constructive? I kept it short and simple and on point, but someone removed it. Endorsements are an imoortant part of Gulf Kanawut's carrer. LoveStar12345 (talk) 12:47, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Did you provide a reliable source?

Asparagusus (interaction) 12:52, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

LoveStar12345, Wikipedia is not for hosting the fan page of your favorite actor/client. As usual with Gulf and his co-star, the article required serious clean-up and likely needs more. Nothing should be added to the article without being supported by a reliable source. Anything added should also use neutral language. He is not skyrocketing to fame nor courted by brands.Slywriter (talk) 13:16, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

To editor Slywrite Didn't figure out how to respond to your previous answer. I know it's not a fan page and if you have take the time to check out, you would have seen I wasn't the one to add any flowery parts so watch how you talk to me. I understand I didn't provide any sources for the endorsements (the only part I ever edited here) and you deleted. But don't talk to me like I edited his whole wiki page. And I for sure am not a fan of his ex co-star, so I never ever visisted his wiki page, let alone edit it. Who are you to even talk to people you don't know like this, especially when it's easy to check what I have edited. Accusing me of what everyone did on this wiki page. Chill your horses please and since you are good at it, check your facts first before unleashing your frustrations on innocent people. Thanks, peace ✌🏻 LoveStar12345 (talk) 13:33, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

LoveStar12345 If you are using full desktop mode, you may click "edit" at the top of this page, or there should be an "edit" link in the section header. 331dot (talk) 13:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

@LoveStar12345 As Asparagusus said, I am sure that your addition was removed because you didn't provide any sources for the endorsements. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 06:27, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

How to add those "This user is" boxes to my user page?

I see many peoples pages having "this user is a *insert thing here* do-er. " or "This user supports *insert thing here*"

How can I do it? Is it hard to do it? Can only certain people do it? Smotoe (talk) 14:50, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

@Smotoe, see Wikipedia:Userboxes. Kpddg ^(talk) 14:51, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Smotoe, and welcome to the Teahouse! Anyone who would like to can add a userbox to their userpage. You just have to copy and paste the relevant code into your userpage. For instance, putting {{user en}} on your userpage produces the userbox that says a person is a native speaker of the English language. If you see a userbox you like, you can just copy the code for it to your userpage. Happy editing! Perfect4th (talk) 14:53, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! Smotoe (talk) 14:55, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

@Perfect4th Is there a "generic" userbox template that takes a parameter for *insert thing here*, or does each thing you want to say require its own userbox to be created? From that page, it looks like each variation needs to be created separately. As a computer programmer, that just seems inefficient to me. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 06:33, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi, IP user! As far as I'm aware, in general separate users have to be created seperately. The exceptions are those with numbered variants (such as those listed here) and those which use piped variables. These are a little more flexible; here's an example of one that accepts any input in its {{{1}}} variable. It is also technically possible, I believe, to specify what the input will display. I made this talk page message for fun for the World Cup; parameters {{{1}}} and {{{2}}} accept FIFA codes that display their respective country's flag. Similar principles can be applied to userboxes. Perfect4th (talk) 13:50, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

@Perfect4th I see that example with the numbered parameters. If the static text said "This user", and the template had a parm, that would seem to take a lot of work out of using userboxes. Or, there could be no static text, and just a parm. Although, could that lead to "unacceptable" or out-of-policy userboxes? 73.127.147.187 (talk) 06:20, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

As far as I'm aware, a userbox with the text "This user {{{1}}}" would be fine. Figuring out how to vary the color/image would take a little more work with a couple more parameters, but I know of no reason it wouldn't be possible. Perfect4th (talk) 13:09, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Who needs colors and images? (just kidding) 73.127.147.187 (talk) 06:46, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Roman Catholic scholarship getting strangled

Is this normal? . . . There's this group of 3 editors who claim to have a consensus against me, that (by my characterization here:) I'm basically not allowed to use any Roman Catholic [RC] theological sources, even in an RC-specific article. Despite a week of conversation, they have, not just reworked, but totally rolled back all my edits over the last month ((1) here, (2) here, (3) here, & (4) here), #3 of which was made merely to satisfy them. In the meantime, Wikipedia, by its silence, thereby makes readers think that there is absolutely no basis for belief in the Immaculate Conception, before the Middle Ages, when this is radically not true, as my attempted (but removed) chart demonstrates. Against my Church Fathers [CFs] & medieval sources, . . .

• They say (← Clickable) That anything before AD/CE 1900 is a primary, not secondary source, that WP articles should rely only on secondary sources, and that I can only include primary sources if I also include their definition of a secondary source.
• I reply that Secondary Sources can go back to CE/AD 300, according to these 2 sentences . . .
  • "The book [written 150 years later] and the journal article [written only 2 years ago] are secondary sources."
  • "For example, the works of Thomas Aquinas are secondary sources for a Roman Catholic perspective on many topics, but are primary sources for Thomas Aquinas or Summa Theologica."
• They say That those are just essays, not policies, and that their consensus carries more weight than an essay, so they can disregard those two essays. In so doing, they exclude 1500 years of Theological debates' arguments from inclusion within Wikipedia, and restrict articles to only statements from recent theological works, although 10 popes and an entire school of modern theology (the traditional RC one) eschews the new stuff as "Modernism", and holds that the older a source is, the more weighty it is, even, in the case of some CFs' statements, sometimes equal with scripture.   Nevertheless . . .
• I grudgingly acquiesce by trying to add CFs' quotes, piecemeal, one at a time, including with each one a recent theological work, that cited and discussed that Church Father's quote.
• They say that my recent source is "biased", coming as it is from an ardently RC Theologian. In so doing, they suggest that including RC Theologians' statements in an article about an idea believed only by the RC Church is "not how WP works," and that, for balance, I should also go "find . . . [statements in the CFs] disproving" the Immaculate Conception, or else I'm committing either WP:OR, or "Confirmation bias".
  
  Really? . . . Isn't this just religious censorship? How on earth are we fulfilling the WP:RNPOV policy, which says,
  In the case of beliefs and practices, Wikipedia content should not only encompass what motivates individuals who hold these beliefs and practices but also account for how such beliefs and practices developed. Wikipedia articles on history and religion draw from religion's sacred texts and modern archaeological, historical, and scientific sources.

Octavius2 (talk) 14:53, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello @Octavius2 and welcome to the Teahouse. I see there's been a long discussion here. Wikipedia does indeed work by consensus, which seems to be against you. You could take the matter to WP:DR (dispute resolution), which is a long, formal process for hashing out complex disagreements. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:05, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Yuk, no, not there, nor here. Try Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard, expressing the issue more succinctly. Johnbod (talk) 15:14, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Yeah @Johnbod & @199.208.172.35, I already took it to the DRN, but it was closed as "out of scope." They suggested that I take it to the WP:RSN, as you said, Johnbod, but I didn't, as RSN seemed inactive, and a long shot, dealing only with modern news ("Perennial Sources"). But I'll try it there, since you suggest it, also. Octavius2 (talk) 15:19, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

@Octavius2: Please stop your weird formatting of posts with pink/yellow and raw HTML markup, it makes your posts hard to read. You can use wiki markup to make bold, italics etc. but do it sparingly. Links appear in color in any reasonable browser (usually blue) and people know they are clickable.

I encourage you to read carefully Jdcompguy's post at DRN which is my opinion goes to the heart of the matter. The fact that certain (famous) theologians took certain positions is not proof that those positions were mainstream among the Church (whether the rank-and-file believers or the high clergy); you need a source independent of theologians to assert that. With that in mind, I do not think RSN (which is active) would help much.

On your talk page, you say it's not my job as a single editor to hunt for, or worry about such possible competing view; others can do that. I believe this is exactly where you have it wrong. You seem to think Wikipedia works as a disputation. For those unaware, a disputation is an adversarial system (somewhat resembling a modern court of law) where two persons defend conflicting views (based on scriptural authorities), and the hope is that truth emerges from the debate; the opponents do not even need to truly believe the position they defend, just to be able to adequately present the arguments for it. But Wikipedia is not an adversarial system aimed at discerning truth; it is a collaborative project aimed at documenting pre-existing knowledge. Wikipedia will never take position on whether (for instance) the doctrine of Immaculate Conception is correct or not, it will only document the history of that doctrine and position of various major Christian churches.

Ideally, you should edit in a way that nobody should correct you. In practice, that is hard; your own biases get in the way of writing a dispassionate summary, you tend to write more about subjects you know and care a lot about; but you should definitely try to minimize that tendency, not to amplify it and wait for the counterargument to come. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 16:13, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

To JDCompguy's claim - Well, I disputed here and here JDCompguy's claim that my "sources do not make the assertion[s] themselves." JDCompguy wants explicit terminology, when, in reality, many of these terms overlap. You wouldn't remove a Physics claim, just because it posted some other rearrangement, or subset of the equation used in its source, would you? No, you'd import your background knowledge of basic algebra, and tolerate it. Well, that's how Theologians operate, too, to a degree: We understand that Lack of Original Sin implies (1a) Original Justice, (2a) Original Integrity, and (3a) Original Immortality. We also understand that these will manifest respectively as (1b) Righteousness, (2b) ordered passions, and (3b) incorrupt bodies. This is all introductory Theology101 background-knowledge. Therefore, if you can find ancient Christian sources that assert (1), (2), or (3), then that's evidence for Lack of Original Sin. Therefore I added an entire heavily-footnoted section (↖that 1st link) and chart, like basic Algebra, to explicitly lay out the overlapping of these terms. Of course, that was removed too, as supposedly WP:OR.

You're right:
It shouldn't be about (I.) whether the Immaculate Conception is right or wrong;
it should be about (II.) document[ing] the history of that doctrine and [the] position of various major Christian churches, especially the only one that believes in it; but
it's actually about (III.) completely banning the 1500-year-old Catholic Patrimony, and theological program, from Wikipedia, because, supposedly, Church Fathers, and Doctors of the Church, aren't sufficiently cool-headed/mature/neutral/academic -enough to be counted as Wikipedia secondary sources, the way that, say, classical historiographers like Livy, Plutarch, or Josephus are. I think it's just secret double-standard bigotry, by everyone who is secretly adversarial to the Catholic church. Octavius2 (talk) 17:26, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Please don't move this debate to the Teahouse, that is not the purpose of this space. Since DR has declined to handle things, continue either at the WikiProject, RSN or the talk page of the article(s) involved. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:34, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

You wouldn't remove a Physics claim, just because it posted some other rearrangement, or subset of the equation used in its source, would you? No, you'd import your background knowledge of basic algebra, and tolerate it. It depends on the rearrangement. Generally speaking, maths/physics articles on Wikipedia about somewhat-complex topics are very lacking in citations. They are also incomprehensible to non-mathematicians/physicians. That creates a feedback loop where only mathematicians/physicians can read and edit them because it’s hard to understand the jargon and the "equation rearrangements", and the jargon and calculations do not get fixed because those who can read the article can understand how to do the rearrangements and do not see the need to cite a textbook for "common knowledge" [that is, common to anyone with a PhD about a related topic]. I suppose that few of them contain original research and that most of it is actually textbook-level stuff, but there is no way for a random reader to know that. That is not a good thing and you should definitely not emulate that aspect of math/physics articles in theology articles.

Also, what would be appropriate for a math/physics article presenting the current view of the subject, might not be appropriate for an article presenting the history of the underlying ideas. Everyone knows today that heat is a form of energy, and therefore "heat" and "energy" can be used interchangeably in some contexts; but 250 years ago, people believed that heat was a form of matter, and substituting "heat" for "energy" in one’s (modern) interpretation of historical documents would be inappropriate.

it should be about ... document[ing] the history of that doctrine and [the] position of various major Christian churches, especially the only one that believes in it - nope. If significant theological currents have opined on the matter, even if that’s to dismiss it as entirely unfounded for some reason or another, they should be included. For instance, it would be hugely inappropriate to give less weight to the Orthodox view on Filioque "because it’s Catholics who believe in it". Of course, that does not mean you should include those who did not have any opinion on the subject - I would expect that few Hindu theologians have opined on matters of Christian theology. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 09:15, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

I said nothing about the Orthodox' disbelieving view, which I'm happy to include.

I was merely saying that the Catholic view should be FULLY included. Agree?

And the Catholic view is not just that it is true, but that it's a dogma, i.e, something that the Catholic Church is claiming is "found in divine revelation," i.e, maximally old, as in, passed down either thru Scripture or the 12 Apostles. Therefore I want to include a section listing evidence for its oldness, but I haven't been permitted to do that. Octavius2 (talk) 15:06, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

I cannot say for the others, but you have grossly misrepresented some of my arguments. I did not wish to intervene, as it is your right to ask for fresh feedback on your editing from other people (even if you do so with hit piece headlines); but I really do not like to see my arguments being twisted the way you did. Veverve (talk) 01:13, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Setting Up A New PAGE

I AM SO LOST. I REALLY NEED HELP LEARNING HOW TO SET UP A PAGE. I HAVE THE CONTENT WRITTEN AND IT'S FOR A LEGENDARY HIP HOP ARTIST. 2601:282:8080:C5F0:D4A9:5CEE:A29D:8018 (talk) 18:24, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Please do not yell(use all capital letters). First, does this artist or musician meet the notability criteria? Writing a new article (not a page) is the most difficult thing to do here. Please see Your First Article. 331dot (talk) 18:28, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to the Teahouse. Your use of the phrase "set up a page" suggests that, like many people, you are confusing Wikipedia with social media. It is different from them. The (very difficult) activity your are embarking on is writing an encyclopaedia article. This needs to be neutral in tone, and based almost 100% on what people unconnected with the subject have published about them in reliable sources.

I'm afraid that it's very likely that the content you have written is unusable in Wikipedia: where did you get it from? If it's from things that the artist or their associates have published, little of it will be relevant to a Wikipedia article. If it's from fan-sites, forums, wikis, or social media, it can't be used. If it's your own observations and conclusions, it can't be used.

Experience shows that new editors who try to go straight into creating a new article generally have a frustrating and disappointing time, and often see much of their effort wasted. I always advise new editors to spend a few months learning how Wikipedia works by making small improvements to some of our six million existing articles. ColinFine (talk) 19:09, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

@IP editor, the artist is legendary, and yet no one else has chosen to create an article yet? Hmmmm... @331dot, if the artist is legendary, truly they are notable! All those legends... 73.127.147.187 (talk) 06:43, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Major edit needed: how do I best approach this?

The Wikipedia article Hudibras, about a rather important seventeenth-century satire by Samuel Butler, is rather a mess: it seems to have been set up by someone who was really well-inclined but (amongst other gaps) didn't know very much about the background to the satire, misunderstood it in some significant ways, hadn't read any of Butler's other writings, had no idea that there's an excellent modern edition to refer to (all the existing references are to outdated editions published before 1850 but available on Gutenberg), and wasn't very good at organising the structure of their article to reflect the key points of the satire for the modern reader. It also has some rather misleading misstatements, one of which I checked up on a couple of days ago and then removed.

The entire article needs revision from top to bottom, and I would like (and have the background) to do this; but since I have limited time (am retired but a carer), I can't make all the necessary large-scale and small-scale changes in a few hours' work: it'll take a few days. What's the best thing to do? — write a whole new article in my sandbox and eventually upload it on top of the existing one, or revise the existing one over a few days? The latter sounds easiest for a novice, but how do I save my working copy of the in-process revision of the article without uploading it to the public page?

I've made quite a number of small edits to various Wikipedia pages over the last few years, but nothing on this scale — and I don't want to mess this up for you all!

Warmest regards to all, and warmest thanks for any guidance one of you can give me!

Golden Dorset (aka Michael!)

GoldenDorset (talk) 18:49, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

If your going to make a series of major edits, may I recommend adding the {{under construction}} tag to the top of the page? You can also, if you prefer, do the edits on your sandbox, and then add them to the article. Happy editing! HenryTemplo (talk) 19:00, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Great! Sound helpful advice. Many thanks!

GoldenDorset (talk) 21:59, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

I would recommend that you don't upload your copy on top of the existing one; this makes the page history difficult to read, and if you're first copying the source of the current article to your sandbox, attribution can get confusing. It's probably best to revise the existing one over a few days; you can use the template HenryTemplo suggested to let other editors (and readers) know what you're doing, as well as posting on the article talk page if you like. Hope this helps, and happy editing! Perfect4th (talk) 19:24, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Great! Sound helpful advice. Many thanks! Shall do.

GoldenDorset (talk) 22:00, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

As tempting as it is to blow up an existing article and plug in all new, I advise an incremental approach. Perhaps a section at a time. And create a New section on the Talk page of the article explaining your intent. Many articles have past editors 'watching' the article for changes, and may take umbridge for massive changes all-at-once. I, for example, over weeks, reduced the length and number of references for Vitamin A by more than 1/3, then added to the article so that the end point was larger and with more refs than when I started. David notMD (talk) 22:09, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

GoldenDorset, your revision has had a rough start. You made a deletion with the edit summary I have deleted a sentence which suggests there was a pirate edition of Part One in January 1662, on the authority of Nash's edition of Hudibras (1835). This must be mistake of Nash's: I assume that he had forgotten to allow for the mixed date: we would now read it correctly as "January 1663". Also, Nash gives his source as "Mercurius Aulicus", which ceased publication in 1644: I assume Nash meant "Mercurius Publicus". This is exemplary: it's fastidiously informative, probably more so than any edit summary I have ever provided in over a decade of editing. And what did it bring about? Seven hours later, Rollback edit(s) by GoldenDorset (talk): Unexplained removal of reliably sourced content (RW 16.1). Well, a charitable comment would be that this gives new meaning to "unexplained" (and to "reliably" too). If I were you and my improvement had been greeted in this fashion, I'd promptly decamp from Wikipedia, perhaps after leaving some choice hudibrastics on my user page. The history of the article Hudibras shows that it has largely been a creation of a single editor, one who stopped editing years ago. They're unlikely to take umbrage. Creating a sound, substantive new article is hard work; doing so while also retaining as much as is reasonable of what came before and explaining each deletion (not to mention having some of these laboriously explained deletions reverted as "unexplained") is something I'd find intolerably onerous. So I'd disagree with the comments above, and start afresh. However -- and there will be a number of howevers. Your edit history is good, but short. I strongly suggest that you practice your skills by making what you'll reasonably suppose will be minor and uncontroversial improvements to articles on Butler's other works (or closely related subjects), articles that even as they are seem at least fairly sound to you. See what reaction you get. If it's good, step up, making larger improvements. Et cetera. Only then consider creating a Hudibras article in your user-space ex nihilo. Also, I sense that you may be an expert on the subject. If so, excellent! (I wish there were more.) But as you guessed, there are "howevers": please take a good look at Wikipedia:Expert editors before you embark on anything ambitious. (Oh, and what's this new(ish), superior edition of Hudibras? Perhaps because it's drowned out by reprints of the old editions, it's hard to find at Worldcat.) -- Hoary (talk) 23:08, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

@GoldenDorset Yes, we generally try to preserve attributions, especially when an article has many editors. Per @Hoary, it sounds like that's not the case with this article. Hoary's advice is good, as always. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 06:51, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

gallery of images

Hello, I was told I should upload images into a gallery of images and not individually.... unsure what this really means, but if someone could show me the steps to do so. I would like to upload a dozen images/scans of newspaper articles that support the article I am drafting. Thank you. MayKassem (talk) 20:19, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

@MayKassem, that is a little confusing, can you link to where you were told this? As far as I'm aware, a gallery is a means of displaying images, not uploading them, and it would not be used to display scans of your sources - in fact, uploading them might be copyright violations. Citing a newspaper article simply requires entering the publication information into a citation template. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:31, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello, MayKassem, and welcome to the Teahouse. First, uploading images and displaying them in an article are two separate steps, and a gallery is a way of displaying them, not anything to do with uploading them.

But more serious is that you should not upload scans of articles. Unless they are very old (early 20th century or before) this will be a copyright infringment, and forbidden. Secondly, it should not be necessary. The purpose of citing a source is so that a reader may find and consult the source if they wish. Some sources are easy to find (because they are readily available online); but others are more difficult to come by. As long as a reader can in principle find them (eg by visiting a major library, or by subscribing to a paid-for online service), that is adequate. What is needed is the bibliographic information necessary to find the source: at a minimum, the title, author (if known), date, and publisher, and preferably the page number. See Referencing for beginners. ColinFine (talk) 20:32, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello, MayKassem. You have added images of two magazine covers to Draft:Nourhane, which you have claimed as your "own work". Are you the photographer? Do you personally own the copyright to these magazine covers? If not, you cannot claim them as your "own work". Cullen328 (talk) 22:43, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

these are indeed very old and rare. not 20th century, but prior to 1963 (which ends the copyright on images at +28 years in the US) and in Syria +10 years. we are well past those dates. thank you @ColinFine and @199.208.172.35 for answering my question. MayKassem (talk) 12:41, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Creating a new page: Political Candidate

Hello, I am working on creating a page for a political candidate I am working for. He is a candidate that is running for Governor of California and some of his opponents mentioned on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_California_gubernatorial_election#Declared have wikipedia pages but I do not know how to make one. Is there a way I can create a page for him or is that not possible? SKCteam2022 (talk) 22:45, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

@SKCteam2022: You can use the article wizard and read your first article for more information. Basically, Wikipedia articles must be written neutrally. I recommend you start making a draft and submit it to articles for creation, where experienced editors will review it. Also, there is a policy called notability. In short, if the subject has been covered in multiple reliable sources, they can probably have an article. And also, all encyclopedic content must be verifiable with citations to reliable sources. I.hate.spam.mail.here (talk | contributions) 23:01, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Please read WP:NPOLITICIAN. Unelected candidates for office are rarely considered notable, unless there is unusually widespread coverage in independent, reliable sources. Cullen328 (talk) 23:37, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Also, @SKCteam2022, please look at the rules regarding Conflict of Interest, as well as the username policy, as you might be violating the policy regarding account ownership (your username implies that it belongs to an organisation, which is not allowed, it has to be linked to an individual). Enjoy your day! HenryTemplo (talk) 08:05, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Add citation/source

What's the exact way of adding a news article link URL link or the like next to a statement that I add in an article? I'm sorry but I really don't know how, at least from a technical standpoint without simply linking the URL after it, which obviously isn't the right way. Hgh1985 (talk) 02:01, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

hi Hgh1985! you could learn how to cite over at Referencing for beginners, but the template would be {{cite web}} or {{cite news}} wrapped around the <ref> tag. happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 02:23, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the "wrapped around" part of the otherwise excellent response above. What you want is <ref>{{cite blah blah blah}}</ref>. An oddity is that if you want to cite a discrete part within an edited volume (e.g. a paper written by one author within a book edited by a different author), then what you need is {{cite encyclopedia}}. (I used the latter template just this morning, for something within a mere booklet of less than 20 pages.) -- Hoary (talk) 02:31, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Huh, today I learned that {{cite encyclopedia}} exists, and that I've evidently screwed up a couple of references hereabouts. Thanks Hoary! 97.113.167.129 (talk) 02:42, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

@Hoary: One doesn't need to use {{cite encyclopedia}} in such a case; see "Citing a chapter in a book with different authors for different chapters and an editor" in Template:Cite book#Examples. Deor (talk) 14:26, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Deor, I sit corrected. Thank you! -- Hoary (talk) 22:02, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Balaklava Wikipedia Page

Looking for changes to the Balaklava South Australia wiki page so the second line is not about Meth users but rather farming community and race course. 203.54.211.70 (talk) 02:53, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Balaklava,_South_Australia Looks like another editor has already fixed it. RudolfRed (talk) 03:05, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi, I.P, welcome to the Teahouse. I've removed the offending text. It is possible the lede could be improved but it would have to reflect referenced prose in the article and be given due weight. From the quick look i took that didn't seem immediately possible to add what you'd suggested. Zindor (talk) 03:09, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Oddly, that bit of (mis)information has been repeatedly added to the article over the last few weeks, apparently by someone using the above IP. 97.113.167.129 (talk) 03:10, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Good spot, Columbo. I'd hazard a guess that the OP is their mother. Zindor (talk) 03:19, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

That IP has added meth and "homosexual" comments to several articles, and has been repeatedly warned. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 06:58, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Help Fix Meta Page Links

Hello, please can someone help fix the podcast link or page and the team page respectively on the Fante translatewiki Project on meta, thanks. This is the link:https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fante_translatewiki_Project/Participate.Jwale2 (talk) 06:53, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Is that improved for you now? I was trying to bodge the transcluded header but i think that as a bi-product of that the page purged itself and the redlinks disappeared. Either that or someone else fixed it, which i think is more likely. Zindor (talk) 07:14, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Finding things to edit

Hello, I have followed the tutorial helpfully provided after making an account. I can find things to do by clicking on my username at the top of my screen and scrolling through the available tasks but is there a more intuitive way to find things that need to be done on Wikipedia? Or should I stick with that for now? I have mostly been doing copy-editing and reading through the copious amounts of policies! Thank you. Beag Fiadh (talk) 07:46, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

hi Beag Fiadh and welcome to the teahouse! apart from the Homepage tab, there's also the Task center which provides a more general overview of stuff that can be done, or Maintenance which is less pretty and beginner-friendly but more complete in a way. you could also join a WikiProject of your choice based on your interests, which provides information on what needs to be improved regarding the subject. happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 07:52, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Your reply is amazing. Thank you! Beag Fiadh (talk) 14:00, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

How to restore speedy deleted company page

Hello, my team was updating our corporate wiki pages with factual correction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quess_Corp but it was speedy deleted. I want to understand how can we restore the page and ensure it is aligned with wiki policies and compliance 122.171.86.161 (talk) 07:59, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

hi ip user and welcome to the teahouse! given how the title was protected to prevent editing by newer users plus you being connected with the company which is discouraged, it's best to not aim to restore that page for now. seeing the deletion log of Quess Corp, it seems like the article was deleted for being considered promotion or PR, which is not what Wikipedia is for. if your company is truly notable enough to be included to Wikipedia, someone unconnected to your company may make an unbiased article on it in the future, using reliable sources independent from the company itself (and neutrality of both the text and ideally the editor, and the sources being reliable and independent are all policies required in article creation, plus notability guides what can and can't have an article). happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 08:31, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) The page has been speedy deleted multiple times. The last deletion included the criterion G12 ("unambiguous copyright infringement") which does not allow restoration of the page.

You should first gather sources that are simultaneously (1) independent of the company (so no press releases, interviews etc.), (2) from reliable sources (99% of the time, that means articles from reliable newspapers) and (3) deal with the subject at length (a short article along the lines of "company opens a new office in [town the newspaper is located in]" does not count). If (and only if) those sources exist, you should create an article at Draft:Quess Corp, taking care to follow policies such as WP:NPOV which require non-promotional, dry, just-the-facts writing. Once you think it is ready for publication in the mainspace, copy-paste the magic code {{subst:submit}} at the top of the draft, and it will be reviewed by an experienced editor.

A few additional points:

1. Regarding "my team" - you should create one account per person that edits the article (group accounts are forbidden, so "Quess Corp" is not an acceptable account name but "Vlad Tepes at Quess Corp" is)
2. Assuming you are paid directly or indirectly by Quess Corp, you need to disclose it in the manner prescribed at WP:PAID (that is part of the terms of use of Wikipedia) for every person/account
3. If the article is created, it is not "your corporate wiki page", and you have no more control about what the article says than other random editors.

Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 08:36, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Not meaning to be adding to your woe, but Quest Corp as a topic has been protected from attempts to recreate it without approval from an Administrator: "Pages that have been creation-protected are sometimes referred to as "salted". Editors wishing to re-create a salted title with appropriate content should either contact an administrator (preferably the protecting administrator), file a request at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection#Current requests for reduction in protection level, or use the deletion review process. To make a convincing case for re-creation, it is helpful to show a draft version of the intended article when filing a request." See Quess Corp for the protection notice, which also states "This page has been protected so only extended confirmed users can create it." Extended confirmed status requires a registered account that has been in existance for 90 days, with >500 article edits. David notMD (talk) 12:20, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

About your team updating "our corporate wiki pages," you need to know that neither your team nor anybody else (team or otherwise) can have our, your, or their corporate wiki pages. There might some day be an encyclopedia article in Wikipedia about your corporation. If that happens, it will not be a corporate wiki page, and it will not be owned by you, your team, your corporation, or anybody else. You'll have no control over it, and you might or might not like everything about it. Uporządnicki (talk) 12:46, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Reproduction

@ 41.114.92.95 (talk) 10:52, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello, IP user, welcome to the Teahouse! How can we help you? HenryTemplo (talk) 11:08, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Deletion of redirects

Hi! Pakistan has four provinces, and each further contain 7-9 divisions. Currently, there exist two articles having information on divisions of a specific province (Divisions of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Divisions of Punjab, Pakistan). However, searching for the divisions of the other two provinces (Divisions of Sindh and Divisions of Balochistan, Pakistan) redirects one to the 'parent' page Divisions of Pakistan.

Should these two redirects be deleted so that individual pages can be created for divisions of Sindh and Balochistan?

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse, the answer to your question is no, because the redirects take the reader to the article where they can find that information. If the redirects served no real purpose then it could be deleted. If an article on the divisions of the specific provinces was to be made, they could start in draftspace and then be moved to page which is the redirect. So there is no need to delete the redirect to make room for an article on it. I would suggest reading WP:R#CRD to see reasons to delete redirects. ― Kaleeb18^Talk_Caleb 13:24, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Afghanistan

Why do you make Taliban flag on every pages? 2A01:C23:8024:5300:7589:E891:67E0:3493 (talk) 13:04, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Because the Taliban currently controls Afghanistan. ― TUNA × 13:09, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

How do I add images to an article?

I want to add images to the article Windows Movie Maker because I have screenshots of it running on different operating systems, however I am new to Wikipedia and I do not know how to upload an image to a gallery of images on that article, you know, at the bottom of the page.
Jabin127 (talk) 13:09, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi Jabin127, welcome to Teahouse! To add an image to an article, you first need to upload it to the Wikimedia Commons (here). However, you need to make sure that your image fits the copyright and fair use policies that Wikipedia has. You can find more information at WP:C. Happy editing. ― TUNA × 13:27, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, Tunakanski. Would a screenshot of the Windows Movie Maker running on Windows XP violate copyright? I don't think it would because I technically made the image by screenshotting it, but I would like some input from an experienced user so that I don't violate any rules or guidelines.
Jabin127 (talk) 13:33, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

@Jabin127 Welcome to the Teahouse, and thank you for your question. I'm afraid we cannot give you the go ahead to do what you want to do - sorry. Expanding on @Tunakanski's reply, software screenshots can be an extremely tricky subject to get to grips with because various copyright issues can come into play, especially if you are wanting to demonstrate software editing an already copyrighted image on its screen, and it being a copyrighted piece of software, as Windows Movie Maker most definitely will be. Before getting into the actual practicalities of how to make an already uploaded image appear into an article, I suggest you very carefully read through this page: Wikipedia:Software screenshots. It points out that Wikimedia Commons is not the right place to upload an image to if there are going to be copyright concerns over non-free software, instead uploading one single image solely to English Wikipedia under a 'free use rationale' is permitted, providing that image directly relates to the subject of the article and would help in its comprehension. Unfortunately, that has already happened with this image of that programme, so a second image of the software cannot be uploaded.

It is really important that you appreciate that the software (and thus the screenshots you hoped to upload) are copyright of Microsoft. Under our Wikipedia:Non-free content rules you should note that only one image is permitted in the relevant article, not multiple ones. So I'm afraid that your hopes for a gallery or multiple images on this article have to be dashed in this particular instance. But thanks so much for asking beforehand so that we can try to explain things. If I've not made this clear, do please ask a follow-up question as images of copyrighted software are a really tricky subject to get one's head around here. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 13:35, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, Nick_Moyes, I understand. I have one more question about this: if I wanted to upload a screenshot of free, open-source software, say LibreOffice for example, or a screenshot of a Linux distribution, would I be able to do that?
Jabin127 (talk) 13:41, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

@Jabin127 To be honest, you would need to check each individual programme's licencing. I think the advice you'd need to follow is explained on English Wikipedia in the 1st paragraph of this section of the link I gave you. On Wikimedia Commons, the advice can be found here. In essence, it actually depends on how a piece of software has been licenced - so you'd need to check each one separately. Remember that what can often be a more productive use of time is actually improving the written content of an article (based upon published sources, rather than from your own personal knowledge). Imagery is nice to have, but not essential. Nick Moyes (talk) 14:49, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you!
Jabin127 (talk) 14:50, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Finding saved information

Hold@ Finding saved information saved on phone 174.100.111.173 (talk) 14:07, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello IP Editor and welcome to the Teahouse! What information are we holding for? Normally we can look at a user's contributions to try and tell but your only contribution is the one above. If you can provide more information then we might be able to hep you further. --ARoseWolf 14:13, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Help in creating Wikipedia Article for organization

Hello all,

I work at the History of Diving Museum in Islamorada, Florida and was seeking assistance on the creation of a Wikipedia page for us. I know very little about editing but did see a note that employees should refrain from creating pages for their employer. I do however have lots of sources, information, and photos. Would it be possible to have help with this? I think we would fit in nicely for this category: Category:Maritime museums in Florida

Thank you for reading! Historyofdivingmuseum (talk) 15:03, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello @Historyofdivingmuseum: and welcome to Wikipedia and The Teahouse! One possibility is that you can create a draft article through the Wikipedia:Articles for creation. That is an optional service that allows users to create a draft and get feedback on it before it "goes live" on Wikipedia. Specifically, the AFC process, while optional for most users, is mandatory for users with a conflict of interest such as yourself. You can start it there. A couple of things to consider: 1) The AFC process is backlogged, and it can take some weeks or months for your article to be reviewed. 2) Reviews tend to be rather cursory and may tell you what is wrong, but not often how to fix it, nor will reviewers do any of the work of fixing the article (usually). Just be aware that the process can sometimes be frustrating to new users. 3) In general, topics are accepted as articles based primarily on how much independent reliable source text exists on the topic. This can often be something that is out of your control as a writer. While articles may also be rejected (and often are) for being written in an inappropriate tone, in my experience, the biggest problem is just that Wikipedia's standards of inclusion simply don't make allowances for any article on said topic. I have no idea if your museum is in this situation or not, but it is probably the most daunting hurdle to get over, and not one that even the best writer can overcome. If you're certain you have independent and reliable source material, if you can keep your writing neutral and of the correct tone, and if you can cite your sources so that the content is verifiable, then the AFC process is just what you want to use. You should also read Help:Your first article which covers some of the common pitfalls of writing articles. Also, as a side note, you may also want to head over to Wikipedia:Changing username and request that your account be renamed. Personal names and nicknames are acceptable usernames, but per Wikipedia:Username policy, "Usernames that are simply names of companies or groups are not permitted" because they imply that the account is being used in an official capacity by the group, and group accounts are not allowed. You can change your username to something else, and that will be fine. --Jayron32 15:17, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the reply. There are a lot of articles from sources(magazines, newspapers) besides the Museum so I don't believe sources will be an issue. I will take care that the process you mentioned is followed and hope the page can be up.

As an aside, I was not requested to write the article for any promotional purposes but just think it would be of benefit to have some of the educational resources available to a wider, non-local audience.

Thank you again! Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 16:29, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Historyofdivingmuseum (ec) Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. I would point out that Wikipedia article are not for the topic, but about the topic. Wikipedia is not concerned with any benefits to an organization related to the presence (or not) of an article about it on Wikipedia. Our only interest is in writing this encyclopedia. Any article about an organization must summarize what independent reliable sources with significant coverage have chosen on their own- not based on materials from the organization like interviews, press releases, announcements- to say about the organization, showing how it meets the special Wikipedia definition of a notable organization. Not every organization merits an article, even within the same field.

You can make a request for the creation of an article at Requested Articles, but it is so severely backlogged that any request may not be acted on, if ever. If you have appropriate sources from reliable sources that chose on their own to write about your museum, it is possible for you to submit a draft article for an independent review at Articles for Creation. I would advise against that; the best indicator that a subject merits an article is when an independent editor organically takes note of a topic receiving significant coverage and chooses on their own to write about it. Trying to force the issue isn't usually successful.

You will need to declare as a paid editor, please see WP:PAID. 331dot (talk) 15:22, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

(ec × 3) @Historyofdivingmuseum: First of all, you should see the Wikipedia:Username policy to see why your chosen user name is not appropriate here, and follow the hint in WP:UNC section to change it. Next, you need to understand you can create a Wikipedia article about you, but you can't create a Wikipedia page for you (either you personally, your organization, your community etc.). Wikipedia is an encyclopedia (see Wikipedia:What is Wikipedia), not a social media (see Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not). Specifically, Wikipedia is not means of promotion, so its articles are meant to serve readers, not subjects. This is what I try to distinguish by opposing 'about' to 'for'. And I suppose most of what Jayron32 wrote above follows from this. --CiaPan (talk) 15:37, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the information.+ username changed!

I am not concerned with promotion as much as I think it would be of benefit to readers to have some of the educational resources available here(artifacts, history, etc.) available without having to visit in person. I think it is worth an article especially as there are smaller maritime museums with their own.

Cheers! Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 16:33, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

@Divingenthusiast2005, I'm assuming your museum has a lot of cool diving-related exhibits. If you could take photographs of those exhibits and upload them to Commons (under an appropriate license), they might be useful in illustrating diving-related articles. It's probably a quicker (and easier) way of getting the museum's information out there than writing an article on the museum itself, though of course you're welcome to do that too. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:37, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

That's a great idea, I definitely want to edit other diving-related articles with additional information/histories provided by artifacts here, but when sourcing the photos as "x artifact on display at x museum" I feel it would be of benefit to have that page to link to. Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 16:39, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

@Divingenthusiast2005:: From a quick online search, sadly I doubt that your museum is truly notable (but of course you might have found more sources than I did). Also, a smaller museums having a Wikipedia entry doesn't mean your museum needs to have one as well (as explained in Wikipedia:Other stuff exists). However, I added a section to the Islamorada, Florida article which mentions the museum – such a mention has a lower bar to pass than a standalone article. Once you've uploaded pictures, one could be added there :) --LordPeterII (talk) 18:36, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. There are many sources that mention us, but online ones tend to be local. I am certain we have national-level articles, but they are typically in journals about SCUBA and diving history(so pretty niche, and not always available online). I will have to do some digging in our physical archives.

As for pictures, I put together this IMGUR album to start the process. What would be the process of posting them here? https://imgur.com/a/TGmo5lm Please feel free to use them, and thank you for adding to the Islamorada article! I really appreciate that. Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 19:51, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Per your concern that journals about SCUBA and diving history aren't available online. You can still cite the journals -- giving author, article title, journal title, issue date and page numbers for the article -- even if it isn't online. If the periodical is considered reliable it doesn't have to be readily available to be a good reference. Best wishes on your Wikipedia project. Karenthewriter (talk) 04:05, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 22:23, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Oh, but if a picture of the museum itself is needed, would this work? https://imgur.com/a/EhGMUX7 Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 19:54, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

@Divingenthusiast2005, assuming you took the photos yourself, the easiest way to upload them is to go here and follow the instructions. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:29, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Done! Thank you for the info; https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:History_of_Diving_Museum.png Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 20:36, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

You can upload the same to Commons, now that there's none visible elsewhere. One thing I noticed on the entrance pic is that there is no EXIF info - suggesting it's been uploaded from a non-original source. This is the sort of thing the Commons volunteers will look for. Apologies it's so involved.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 21:12, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

You might want to crop the image yourself, too, @Divingenthusiast2005, so it's a bit more square and less landscape-y, they fit better in articles that way (see the "opening shot" at Louvre for instance). 199.208.172.35 (talk) 21:23, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

That's no problem, thank you for the advice. I'm turning in for the evening but for sure can upload a new picture and crop/arrange it accordingly tomorrow. Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 21:26, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

(EC - again - notwithstanding the above message...) Divingenthusiast2005 - I am not a Teahouser, but occasionally I look at selected posts. Please be aware at an early stage that Wikipe/media can only accept (as a repository) and use ('publish') images that are annotated to be copyright-free. That normally means not published elsewhere where there is no licence visible - copyright is assumed. I can't see any such info at Imgur, and I'm unfamiliar with it, but it's swamping me with adverts (too visitor-unfriendly - I couldn't easily scroll to the bottom). Thanks.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 20:34, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Sorry about that. All images uploaded were photos I took myself of the museum interior and artifacts therein, so I am assuming they would be alright to upload. Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 20:37, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Yes, it's complicated. Re-used (that is already published) images can only be hosted here (for anyone to re-use) when there is a specific release. The photographer normally 'owns' the copyright still, but releases usage to others, with specific conditions of attribution. You could take similar-but-noticeably different for use on WP.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 20:40, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with imgur either; there might be a way for an account holder to give their uploaded pictures an appropriate license, compatible with Commons. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:48, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

The easiest thing to do Divingenthusiast2005 is to delete the main entrance pic from Imgur, then do as I suggested by uploading similar, not the same to Wikimedia Commons. Or delete all from Imgur, now that it's in the open. Just to confirm, Wikimedia Commons is entirely separate to English-language Wikipedia.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 21:00, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Done, they have been deleted. I will go through the process of uploading new images as I am sure many artifacts can be used for diving history related articles. Divingenthusiast2005 (talk) 21:01, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Apologies again Divingenthusiast2005 - the reply is sited above - Duhhh, page is jumping around.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 21:14, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

History of Diving Museum now in mainspace. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:25, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

how to make info boxes

That has text in them Xmoyer (talk) 15:23, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Xmoyer. As a newcomer to Wikipedia editing, I don't think you should worry about creating new infoboxes yet. To use one of our many existing ones, see WP:INFOBOX. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:39, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Should the dmy dates template be added above the short description?

Hi. I’ve noticed an article that doesn’t have the dmy dates template, and I wanted to add it. However, it has a short description, and I’m worrying that if I put it in the wrong order it will break something. Should I put the template above the short description or below it? Thanks in advance. Speatle (talk to me) please ping me when replying to something I said. 15:31, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

@Speatle: Welcome to the Teahouse. As far as I'm aware the positioning of those two templates don't matter. Conventionally people place short descriptions at the top of the page, if possible. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 15:33, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. Speatle (talk to me) please ping me when replying to something I said. 15:35, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

footbaall

what is a football betweeen a soccerball 0000123w (talk) 15:43, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

@0000123w, do you have any question related to editing Wikipedia? Your current query is not very clear... Kpddg ^(talk) 15:45, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

They are the same thing. You can look up these words in Wikipedia. You will find the information at football/soccerball. Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:28, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

"Hard to put"? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:47, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Possible removal of notability guideline template from top of article page

Hi,

When the page for the UK based band The Zangwills was created some years ago, there was a header added querying notability. Since then, the band have gone on to make significant progress in terms of general success, popularity and further music releases. Their page is also now directly linked to and from Maisie Williams (Game of Thrones) page as she produced a music video for their song Judas on the Dancefloor. The video was directed by BAFTA winning young director Lowri Roberts and went on to win a film festival award for Best International Music Video.

I wondered therefore if the query notability header could now be reviewed and possibly removed and wanted to seek advice here on how to go about flagging that up for consideration.

Many Thanks & All Best Wishes MMyll (talk) 15:49, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello, MMyll. Based on their success in the last three years as reflected in the article, I have removed the 2019 notability tag. Cullen328 (talk) 16:36, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

That's great, thanks. MMyll (talk) 17:36, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Notability aside, MMyll, I'm inclined to add a "promotional" template to this. Consider for example: Talking about the song, Jake Vickers [who, NB, is a band member, and thus not a disinterested source] said, "If you listen to it loud enough, it can feel like a hug,” he said. “If you smash it on some speakers and put them on your chest, it might just feel like human contact."[13] It was this universal message, coming late in 2020 that grabbed the support and attention of a wider global audience "Fans worldwide will have carved out national treasure status for this band. They really rock" from the USA. Putting aside the question of how anyone "carve[s] out national treasure status" for anything, of course fans of a band value a band (if they didn't, they wouldn't be fans); and this factoid is sourced to an unspecified item somewhere within a bulky issue of a magazine. -- Hoary (talk) 22:21, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

I've been working on a season article for the first season of The New Adventures of Winnie the Pooh

I've been working on a page for The New Adventures of Winnie the Pooh (season 1), and I was wondering if it looks good so far and if it's a good page to include in wikipedia. And if it is, I want to make pages for the other 3 seasons as well. Here it is: User:LeotheBoy1110/sandbox2. LeotheBoy1110 (talk) 17:40, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

@LeotheBoy1110 I can tell you put a lot of work into your article draft, and the general layout, and much of what you wrote is good, but there are problems. The main difficulty is references. I looked at your reference list and see that references 7 through 18 have a "missing or empty title", so I believe you must have made formatting errors. In addition, a lot of your article is lacking references. In the Release section the first two paragraphs have a reference for their first sentence, but the rest of the sentences have no sources given. I don't know if what you wrote came from a book, a newspaper article, or if you are giving your opinion. Unfortunately, if you can't find a reliable reference for what you want to write, you need to leave that part out until you can reference it properly.

There are also a few places where you seem a bit too enthusiastic. You state that publications gave the series "extremely positive reviews," when just writing "positive reviews" will let the readers know that reviewers liked the show. But the main task before is to fix your reference problems. Help:Referencing for beginners may be a useful guide for you. Look for additional sources so that every sentence of information you write will have a proper reliable reference.

Take a deep breath, perhaps step away from your draft for a day or two, and then go back to work on your problem areas. Writing a Wikipedia article is hard work, but you've made a good start. Best wishes on improving what you've written. Karenthewriter (talk) 03:52, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Help with "submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources."

Drafting an article and it was denied because it says it was "not adequately supported by reliable sources". The subject of the article is noted on IMDB for all their roles, there is a complete local news story about him (with name and photos therein), another local news story that had video coverage of him in his philanthropic endeavors. Also included was a link to the charity that he actually started and runs (which includes events, photographs of him, etc.).

Trying to understand what is missing that IMDB to show all his movie credits, and published news articles speaking to his philanthropic nature aren't "reliable sources" (unless i'm possibly annotating the references incorrectly, possibly confusing "references" with "external links" (though the above are all in the "references" section. If there's anyone that can provide some assistance, possibly show me what I'm doing wrong, it would be greatly appreciated.

I am actually looking at another actor (Gregory Sporleder ) who has fewer references (only 1 reference that actually isn't a broken link and mentions him in it), and identical external links (IMDB)...and his page is up without an issue, so i'm trying to understand what is lacking here as this one seems to be more thoroughly annotated. ForTheLoveOfTheGame1513 (talk) 17:41, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

The page I'm trying to submit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Shawn_Alexander_Thompson

The one I am referring to that has 1 valid link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Sporleder — Preceding unsigned comment added by ForTheLoveOfTheGame1513 (talk • contribs) 17:42, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello, ForTheLoveOfTheGame1513. IMDb is not a reliable source. Please read WP:IMDB. The use of IMDb as an external link is generally considered appropriate. The link to the charity he runs is a primary source and obviously not an independent source and therefore is of no use in establishing notability. The three films he recently acted in appear to be low budget efforts that have not yet been released. Your reference titled "Community gets results for woman whose bike was stolen" does not mention Thompson. You have presented no evidence that this person is notable. Cullen328 (talk) 18:11, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

As for Gregory Sporleder, could that article be improved? Absolutely. But Sporleder has had many roles in major films and TV shows going back a third of a century. He is notable. Cullen328 (talk) 18:17, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

ForTheLoveOfTheGame1513 I'm sure that the local newspaper articles are good, reliable sources, but the problem is whether the actor is notable, as explained in notability. I have had a couple of local newspaper articles written about me, and have been seen in a couple of YouTube history documentaries, but I am not notable to anyone other than close friends and family members. Your article may be too soon and an article about the actor can be accepted when he becomes better known. Best wishes on your Wikipedia work. Karenthewriter (talk) 22:51, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Also, see WP:OSE 73.127.147.187 (talk) 06:52, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Talk page after a move

I changed the article name for the artist Frederick E. Olmsted to Frederick E. Olmsted Jr. because I had written a new article about his father--and technically Jr. should have been included in the name of the article anyway. I have merged articles before, but not with the move button. Both article and talk page seemed to be fine after the move. And I was able to then publish the new article for Frederick E. Olmsted who was forester. However, the talk page for my new article is still the old talk page for Jr. with a redirect. Not sure what step I missed or how to fix this. Any advice? Rublamb (talk) 21:07, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks anyway, but I figured it out. Rublamb (talk) 21:13, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Userpage/userbox help

So I saw someone's userboxes and I thought they were really cool, so I made my own. I did that and with both the visual editor and the source editor my userpage looked fine, but when I published the changes it looked really weird. Could somebody help me fix it? My userpage is here.
Jabin127 (talk) 21:10, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Jabin127, it looks slightly unusual, that's all. Don't worry about it; just improve some articles. (Until you do, nobody will be interested in your likes, affiliations, experiences, etc.) -- Hoary (talk) 22:08, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Nonetheless, i've made the markup a bit stricter. Jabin127, is that <br> tag part of your signature? You don't need it there and it'll end up as lint. While HTML does generally work here, the mediawiki software will for the most part handle line breaks and spacing without need to define it yourself. Kind regards, Zindor (talk) 23:54, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

How to obtain excerpts for classical music pieces

How do you get these nice and clear excerpts like in the featured article Piano Sonata No. 31? The article I am working on, Piano Concerto No. 5, has these pretty bad audio excerpts that need to be replaced. I could not find any help on Wikipedia music documentation. Thank you. YourJudge (talk) 22:53, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi, YourJudge! Is this the music documentation you were looking for? I looked at the instructions in this media file help page and it seems you will have to have access to the song from which you take an excerpt. You could also try looking here, although I don't know if the resources listed there are as helpful for classical music. Alternatively, you can take a look at what the provider of one of the files you referenced in Piano Sonata No. 31 has (diffs: [6] [7] [8]). Hope this helps! Perfect4th (talk) 23:15, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, @Perfect4th, for being unclear. I was specifically looking for the image sources. In the featured article Piano Sonata No. 31, the images (diffs: [9] [10] [11][12]) are nice and clear while in my article, it is just midi files. It seems Help:Sibelius is the closest to what I need, but I wonder what to do if you cannot buy Sibelius. YourJudge (talk) 01:08, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Ah, my bad, YourJudge! You might have already found Help:Score, which displays an image but in .midi format and is entirely manual input anyway. This MOS guideline describes the guidelines for image sources, but doesn't say where to find them; you'll likely either have to find an image or make one (I'm definitely not a copyright expert, but Beethoven's works are in the public domain, so I think a transcription would be okay). There ought to be an alternative to Sibelius somewhere that should work if there isn't one already. I use a cheaper software but it has less capabilities and I don't know if it would work for this purpose. Perfect4th (talk) 01:51, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Internet archive

I would like to upload the episodes from shows like Floodlines and Timber Wars to the internet archive and probably link to them in the external links section or something. However, I've never uploaded anything to the IA before. Can I just upload whatever I want? If these shows are copyrighted do I need to get consent from the creators? Basically any help with how to upload things to the IA would be appreciated. TipsyElephant (talk) 01:12, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi TipsyElephant, and welcome to the Teahouse. No, you cannot upload whatever you want, especially if it's copyrighted – see The Internet Archive's page on "What movies can I upload?", and consider Wikipedia's policies on non-free content and linking to copyrighted works. ClaudineChionh (talk – contribs) 02:18, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Jimin (singer, born 1995)

I started a requested move and several days have passed since then, and it's only gotten two supports. I was wondering if that would be enough for it to be moved, or if it needs to be relisted for further responses. 52-whalien (talk) 01:33, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

@52-whalien Requested Move discussions stay open for at least seven days, so it has only about a day to run, someone will come around to close it, as the nominator it should not be you. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:15, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Anonymous Editor has left name and phone number after complaint about a company on that company's talk page

I am watching The Dollar Store and I was informed of a change on the Talk Page:The Dollar Store. When I went there I saw a wordy complaint by an anonymous editor about an incident that had occurred between her and a store employee. At the end of the complaint she left her name and presumably her real phone number. What does one do in a case like this? Thank you bobdog54 (talk) 01:44, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

@Bobdog54: Contact the oversight team. See WP:OVERSIGHT for instructions. The page you linked to does not exist, so please make sure you have the right page when you submit your request. RudolfRed (talk) 01:48, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your speedy reply–It was Dollar Tree(my brain went into neutral). In the meantime, another anonymous editor deleted the entire comment and mentioned oversight so I will figure that they have stealthily taken care of the problem? Or not? bobdog54 (talk) 01:58, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

IIRC, I can't request oversight, that needs a registered user with an email address. I just wanted to get that post off the page... hopefully quietly, but ah well. 97.113.167.129 (talk) 02:09, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

97.113.167.129, assuming you have an email adress, you can email the overisght team directly, without the need to go through Wikipedia's email user feature. Their email adress is oversight-en-wpwikipedia.org. Victor Schmidt (talk) 07:20, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip! I'd be worried about my report getting lost in the loads of junk mail which a public email address like that no doubt attracts, but it's better than nothing. Dealing with "simple" revdel requests is easier, usually I just check CAT:RFRD and here and ping a poor unsuspecting soul (since leaving a note on their talk page might draw undue attention to the issue), but maybe that's not really the best way to go about it. I've never used IRC (can IPs even use IRC?), but I'm told it's another option. 97.113.167.129 (talk) 13:11, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

I contacted oversight and redacted the edit. Galobtter (pingó mió) 02:30, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Gracias, lurking gorilla-admin (so large, yet so quiet!). 97.113.167.129 (talk) 03:02, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

@Bobdog54 For next time, it is best not to post about such things on a highly visible page like the Teahouse so as to not attract more attention to the personal information, and you can contact WP:OVERSIGHT as mentioned above. Galobtter (pingó mió) 02:33, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

I had reservations about doing the post but had no idea what else to do. Now I know about Oversight and I thank everyone for their help and I can stop cringing about the way I went about asking my question. Live and Learn as I travel the road of Wikipedia. bobdog54 (talk) 13:45, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Possible DAB for geological surveys in Australia

Dear Teahouse friends,

I'd like to create a DAB for Australian geological surveys, sometimes they can be tricky to find as they were done by different departments.

Would this be considered suitable? At present there is the overarching descriptive Geological survey. It has some linked examples it is not so nationally specific. There is a category but I believe a DAB would be of more value. Thank you for your advice!

If this type of disambiguation page is allowed, I would be adding these pages:

Geological Survey of South Australia

Geological Survey of Queensland

Geological Survey of Victoria

Geological Survey of Western Australia

SunnyBoi (talk) 04:57, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi SunnyBoi I think that what you describe is better done using Wikipedia Categories. We already have Category:Geological surveys of Australia which seems to cover those you mention. So anyone looking at an article in this category can click through to find the others (i.e. the category will be at the bottom of the articles). Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:49, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

a question

Would it be ethical to count editing as volunteering hours at my school?  Ickydog23 (talk) 06:04, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello, @Ickydog23, and welcome to the Teahouse! This is the sort of question you should probably ask your school. If your school needs help deciding if it is ok to count Wikipedia editing as volunteering, maybe point them this way. Happy editing! HenryTemplo (talk) 07:41, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

It's also very difficult to determine how many hours someone spent edit-warring on 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine... Sungodtemple (talk) 23:55, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

How do I create a new parameter which is not already there in Infobox?

I would like to add a new parameter 'nearest metro station' so that it is easy to navigate in places like Delhi. How do I create it? Libreravi (talk) 07:30, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello again @Libreravi! If you want to add a new parameter to a infobox, maybe start a discussion on the templates talk page. I wouldn't add it to the template directly if I were you, as templates are fiddly things. On some infoboxes, however, there are options to add another title and info, so maybe check out that. Happy editing! HenryTemplo (talk) 07:48, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Libreravi. HenryTemplo is right to suggest you discuss it first; but I would oppose adding this field, for three reasons. First, in most cases it would be original research; secondly, in some cases it would be a matter of opinion; thirdly, Wikipedia is not a travel guide. ColinFine (talk) 10:39, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Create Wikipedia page...

How to create a wikipedia page without auto deletion?... What are procedure to launch a wikipedia page?... 157.51.163.199 (talk) 10:42, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello and welcome. Wikipedia does not have "pages", it has articles. Wikipedia articles are not "auto deleted"; if you are referencing a specific article or draft(your edit history indicates no other contributions besides here) please tell us which one. Creating a new article is the absolute hardest thing to attempt on Wikipedia. It is recommended that you first gain experience and knowledge by first editing existing articles in areas that interest you, to get a feel for how Wikipedia operates and what it expected of article content. If you create an account, you can use the new user tutorial as well.

If the topic you want to write about receives significant coverage in independent reliable sources that have chosen on their own to write about it, and the topic meets the Wikipedia definition of notability, you may visit Articles for Creation to create and submit a draft. Reading Your First Article will help as well. 331dot (talk) 10:47, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

(edit conflict)I assume you talk about creating a new Wikipedia 'article (not just "page"). Since your IP adress has made no edits besdies this one, I cannot determine where your previous attempt failed, but in general the steps to create a new Wikipedia article are as follows:

• First, review our guideline on notability, our policy on Verifiability, and our general notability guideline (GNG). Consider whether your subject clearly meets the standards listed there. Also, check if the topic is already covered, perhaps under a different spelling or in a section of an article about a wider topic. You will waste a lot of time, if you create a new article, and then find that the encyclopedia already has an article about that.
• Second, read how to create Your First Article and referencing for beginners and again consider if you want to go ahead.
• Third, If you have any connection or affiliation with the subject, disclose it in accordance with our guideline on Conflict of interest. If you have been or expect to be paid for making edits, or are making them as part of your job, disclose this according to the strict rules of the Paid-contribution disclosure. This is absolutely required; omitting it can result in you being blocked from further editing.
• Fourth, gather sources. You want independent, professionally published, reliable sources with each discussing the subject in some detail. If you can't find several such sources, stop; an article will not be created! Sources do NOT need to be online, or in English, although it is helpful if at least some are. The "independent" part is vital. Wikipedia does not consider as independent sources such as press releases, or news stories based on press releases, or anything published by the subject itself or an affiliate of the subject. Strictly local coverage is also not preferred. Regional or national newspapers or magazines, books published by mainstream publishers (not self-published), or scholarly journals are usually good. So are online equivalents of these. (Additional sources may verify particular statements but not discuss the subject in detail. But those significant detailed sources are needed first.)
• Fifth, use the article wizard to create a draft under the articles for creation project. This is always a good idea for an inexperienced editor, but in the case of an editor with a conflict of interest it is essential.
• Sixth, use the sources gathered before (and other sources you may find along the way) to write the article. Cite all significant statements to sources. Do not express opinions or judgements, unless they are explicitly attributed to named people or entities, preferably in a direct quotation, and cited to a source. Do not use puffery or marketing-speak. Provide page numbers, dates, authors and titles for sources to the extent these are available. A title is always needed. Submit the draft when you think it is ready for review. Be prepared to wait a while for a review (several weeks or more).
• Seventh, when (well perhaps if) your draft is declined, pay attention to the comments of the reviewer, and correct the draft and resubmit it. During this whole process, if you face any unresolvable editing hurdles, or cannot comprehend any editing issue, feel free to post a request here or at the help desk and ask the regulars. Repeat this until the draft passes review.

Congratulations, you have now created a valid Wikipedia article.

Hope this helps, Victor Schmidt (talk) 10:49, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Can't find wikipedia article for Amar Bharati, does it exist?

I red about a man called Amar Bharati in this article and there seems to be all kinds of information on hin in the internet. However I can't find his Wikipedia page. The article mentions his wikimedia commons as the image source for the picture, I can't find the image as well. Where can I find his wikipedia page? Thank you very much. TheFibonacciEffect (talk) 11:21, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

hi TheFibonacciEffect and welcome to the teahouse! there doesn't seem to be an article about Amar Bharati at the moment, not even a deleted one. I also searched up at TinEye, and while that includes hits from many places including the BBC, Commons isn't one of them (plus I also searched up through Commons's search, which revealed nothing). happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 11:37, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hi TheFibonacciEffect There is no article on him in Wikipedia (nor a Draft). The reason you got a Google hit associated with "Amar Bharati Wikipedia" is because there is a reddit page that has this combinaton of words. I can't find that image on Commons, either, but it may have been deleted there for copyvio (or other reason) after being used elsewhere. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:41, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi TheFibonacciEffect, At the moment there is no article on him in Wikipedia, if he is notable then you are free to create article on him, if they have received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject or you can create a draft on it. May be Article for creation, Your first article, relaible sources, and Notability helps you. Cheers and Happy editing. Fade258 (talk) 11:55, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

But the lack of any information that i can find besides that article, and the lack of sites that have that picture (despite TinEye saying they have) makes me doubt not only whether he is notable, but also whether the story is genuine. Exceptional claims require exceptional sources, so you will need some very solid reliable sources to even think of writing about him. ColinFine (talk) 13:48, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Offensive Labeling

Can anyone help correct the post on Sarah (Sally) Hemings, who bore several children now known to be Thomas Jefferson’s. Alone among the most common Web sites about her, Wikipedia calls her a “quadroon,” a dated and offensive label. 2601:18E:8201:B600:EC5A:7C00:20EF:7DC9 (talk) 13:09, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

The place to discuss this is Talk:Sally Hemings. If you can achieve a consensus to change it, it can be changed. ColinFine (talk) 13:51, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Verifying biographical content provided by the subject of an article

Genuinely puzzled and would appreciate advice. I made a small edit to a celebrity's self-reported biographical details to reflect that they are unverified. It has been reverted by a more experienced editor. I've raised it in Talk [see last item on Talk Page here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lewis_Hamilton] but will not change back as I think that would amount to edit warring. I'm happy to learn from being told I'm wrong, but it seems obvious to me that if claimed biographical data and backstories relevant to image-making are accepted at face value without verification, this will lead to immense amounts of nonsense in Wikipedia articles as insterted there by PRs via simply getting the celebrity to utter the words. A sensible way to report autobiography or comments in interviews seems to me to be to use the format; "x says"? Emmentalist (talk) 13:42, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Emmentalist. I suggest that you read WP:INTERVIEW which says Generally speaking, it is okay to sparingly use interviews to source some facts, so long as the article is also using a good mixture of other types of reliable sources—for instance, if an interview happens to be the clearest available source for where a person who is already properly established as notable was born, or for where they attended university, or for the fact that they identify as LGBTQ, then the interview can be used to source a statement of that fact. In this case, the person is indisputably notable, highly successful and widely honored, and the article is exceptionally well referenced. I am not aware of any credible accusations that he is a liar. Writing something like "Hamiliton says that he started studying karate at age 5" creates doubt where that is unwarranted. Cullen328 (talk) 17:56, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, @Cullen328, can I just check that you read the article? It's behind a paywall. Perhaps you're a Telegraph subscriber? Davies, Gareth A (5 July 2007). "A salute to the real Lewis Hamilton". The Daily Telegraph. London. Archived from the original on 10 January 2022. All the best, Emmentalist (talk) 07:19, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Spacing issues

A Wikipedian left this message on my article about artist Reba Dickerson-Hill: "This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. The specific problem is: Spacing issues. (May 2022)." I'm new to wikipedia and have written at least a dozen other articles. I'm not sure what that means nor how to correct it. Could use some guidance. Thanks. Sherryleehoward (talk) 15:28, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Sherryleehoward. It was an IP editor who added that template, so it is difficult to reach out to them to ask why. Looking at the article Reba Dickerson-Hill, my suggestion is that the IP editor didn't like all these short sentences which could be redone as longer paragraphs. My only other comment is that you have WP:OVERKILL in a couple of places. Well done for creating an interesting article: have you thought of taking something out of it for WP:DYK so it can be linked on the front page and get lots of views? Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:43, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

The bad news may be that you uploaded to Commons a picture that I doubt is your "own work" (i.e. you took the photo with your own camera). As Dickerson-Hill is dead, you could normally take such a picture from a website but it has to be uploaded only to English Wikipedia as fair-use (see WP:FAIRUSE) and meet all the conditions mentioned. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:48, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

It's a photo from her son, which she paid a photographer to shoot (he didn't do a great job of it). Son gave me permission to use it for wikipedia knowing that it becomes common use. The artwork belongs to another son, also got permission to use it. The print is on the web because it has come up several times at auction. Sherryleehoward (talk) 15:56, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, Mike. That helps tremendously. I'll spread out the citations so they're not bunched at the end. I tend to write in short sentence because I think long complicated ones are unwieldy for the reader. I'll use full paragraphs rather than short ones. Not sure what you mean by taking something out of it for Did you know? How does that work? I have done articles on several neat artists & would love to get them noticed. Sherryleehoward (talk) 15:50, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

I'm afraid that you can't claim "own work" for something that isn't yours Sherryleehoward. The copyright of the photo will (usually) be that of the photographer, not the son, and the resolution on Commons is so low that I doubt that the son had the original .jpg. I'm unclear what should happen to sort things out but others may comment. Click on the Did You Know link (or look at today's Main Page) to find out more about that. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:01, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

OK. Will sort out the photo. Thanks. Sherryleehoward (talk) 16:07, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Sherryleehoward: there's nothing spacing-related that jumps at me, but when I looked at the version when that tag was placed, there were several instances of spaces between punctuation and reference. However, those seem to have been since sorted out, so I wouldn't worry about it. I've removed the tag now. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:49, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, DoubleGrazing. You folks have been so helpful. Sherryleehoward (talk) 15:51, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Removing a page section

Hello! I'm currently editing Curie (microarchitecture) , and it seems to me like the "Chips" section is extremely redundant, as the info from there is duplicated in the "GPU list" section (in fact it's even more detailed). Would removing this section as redundant run afoul of any WP rules? -- akmLaVx (t/c) 17:03, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi Akmlavx Like in most editing, it is encouraged that people be WP:BOLD with changes, being ready to work towards a consensus on the Talk Page of the article if anyone reverts/otherwise objects. More details at WP:BRD. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:21, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! -- akmLaVx (t/c) 17:37, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Making note of guidance by Associated Press on usage of word "internment"

The Associated Press sent a Style Note for May 2022 guiding writers to use the words "detained" or "incarcerated" rather than "interned" and to describe the larger event as "the incarceration of Japanese Americans". My question is where is the appropriate placement of a graf on this matter, specifically, on /internment_of_Japanese_Americans.

It would appear that wording would be handled as a Style Guideline.

Thank you in advance. CaptainHuggyface (talk) 18:31, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello, CaptainHuggyface. This new development could be added to the section Internment of Japanese Americans#Terminology debate where these issues are already discussed at length. Cullen328 (talk) 18:41, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you @Cullen328. I should have reviewed the page more closely. CaptainHuggyface (talk) 19:03, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Strange article and editor

The article Howie Weinberg is in my opinion seemingly not up to Wikipedia's standard, and one editor's contributions are only to this article. They removed the template I added for cleanup. I'm not really sure how to proceed after this, or if I even want to, but I'd really appreciate any advice. Ștefan Tărâță (talk) 18:56, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Stefan Tărâță, if the article doesn't meet WP:GNG, you can WP:PROD it or WP:AFD it. If it just needs cleanup then do it.Sungodtemple (talk) 23:49, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

How many of those impressive links actually mention the subject of the article ? Doug butler (talk) 03:10, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

...or addresses the question? Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:16, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

what to do about my xylaria hypoxilon discoveries

Hello!This is Lark99,a newer editor also known as Sageost on Inaturalist. I am editing on wikipedia to bring my findings that i have named from the complex. I use my findings from identifications to name species vars. I am having a hard time siting my sources because my blog is apparently not a reliable source. what should i do? Lark999 (talk) 21:16, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

@Lark99: I would recommend finding a scientific journal that may publish your findings. Wikipedia is not the place to record or write about your findings or original research. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 21:21, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

@Lark999 Right, if you can't find reliable, published sources that are independent of you, then Wikipedia can't have an article about your findings. It sounds like "your findings" are your original research (see WP:OR), and original research is not allowed on Wikipedia. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 07:04, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

How do I Inline link an image from an external website to my Sandbox?

I would like to link an image from Flickr to my sandbox but cannot figure out how to. I had previously uploaded the image to Wiki Commons but it broke the guidelines and so was nominated for deletion. I'm now trying to Inline link the image from Flickr to my sandbox but it is not working.

I am using this code: <img src="http://www.example.com/picture.jpg" /> but the problem is that Flickr does not include the image name in the link followed by .jpg. The link is in this format: https://flic.kr/0xxxxXx with no /picture.jpg at the end.

Google Photos does the same thing, as does Imgur, ImbBB and I assume every other image host website. I also tried embedding the image and using BBCode but nothing worked. I either get error messages or a useless stringS of text. Is there a way to do this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inline_linking#Inline_linking_and_HTTP Old Hoar's Frost (talk) 21:58, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Old Hoar's Frost. I'm assuming the image is this. Is there a particularly good reason for displaying it in your sandbox? Kind regards, Zindor (talk) 23:04, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

- Discussion also on user talk. Zindor (talk) 00:16, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Old Hoar's Frost, just for reference--loading external images inline is not allowed anywhere on Wikipedia, and <img> tags do not work in wikitext. This is for security reasons. To insert an image inline, it must be uploaded either to the English Wikipedia itself or to Wikimedia Commons, and then linked to using the [[File:...]] syntax. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 01:15, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

I understand. I won't attempt to link anything further. Thanks for letting me know. Old Hoar's Frost (talk) 03:41, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

I suspect that the restriction on image hotlinking is to prevent people from doing something like

<img onerror="alert('Look, a harmless alert')" src="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:UserLogout" alt="Log you out" />

I.hate.spam.mail.here (talk | contributions) 04:25, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

@I.hate.spam.mail.here: This specific instance wouldn't work anyway, because logging a user out requires a POST request. However, to my knowlege, there are three main reasons why inlining images is not possible: 1) copyright: Not all external sites are compatibility licensed. Allowing inline hotlinking would lead to a mess copyright-wise, as it is difficult to prevent people from hotlinking copyrighted images. 2) It could be abused, as above, to attack any site which doesn't poperly secure their non-idempotent GET methods (this is a type of persistent XSS attack). It doesn't work on Wikipedia because all state-modifying requests ar either required to be POST requests when they should do anything, or (in case of action=rollback Don't work without passing an inherently context-dependent rollback token. 3) Wikipedia gets a lot of visits per second (if you want to trust www.wikimediastatus.net up to 150k requests / second, divided amongt all foundation Wikis). Allowing inline hotlining with such a high viewer rate means that Wikipedia could be directly responsible for crashing other site's servers, or at least overloading them, mainly when they can't handle the resulting request volume. Victor Schmidt (talk) 05:07, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

None of those are the security issue I was referring to, on which I will not be elaborating for obvious reasons. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 06:33, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Idempotent is the best new word I've learned in a long time. 97.113.167.129 (talk) 14:47, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Follow-up to Is there a policy on the systematic removal of history and talk?

I apologize for not responding more quickly. I was dealing with a positive test for covid.

The situation:

Private equity firm Vista Equity Partners has been in business 20 years and reports $90 billion in assets. It has acquired major companies in education, health, and other fields. The issue is the web pages of its education acquisitions.

Its founder (and chairman and CEO) has been very visible. He and VEP have Wikipedia pages, although their Wikipedia history pages go back only to early 2021 and have virtually no Talk beyond someone (not me) noting it is strange to have so little about such a prominent person, and a suggestion that a huge tax evasion case (resolved with a $100M fine) be made more prominent.

Among the major acquisitions are PowerSchool (the leading K-12 Student Information System vendor), which itself acquired Naviance (the leading student career guidance site) and Schoology (a major Learning Management System), Ellucian (leading higher education student information system) and others. These companies had long histories, some spun off by or formed as mergers of other established companies.

Wikipedia has no entries for most of these, or entries that have no history or talk pages and cover almost none of the historical record, and not even mentioning the acquisition.

For example, PowerSchool, a major company, has no page, but does show up in Wikipedia under the publisher Pearson, which bought it from Apple and sold it to Vista in 2015. Ellucian has no page, but you can find it mentioned in pages of the companies that merged to form it in 2012. Schoology has a page, but it only covers years before 2015, has no Talk page, its history changes page only goes back to December 2021. Other education acquisitions (EAB, Schoox) are similar.

I saw in one of the talk threads mention of checking the rules on "mass systematic deletion" of talk pages, but I am not sure what happened here. I did not spend time on these sites before. But I've never seen a hole like this around extremely well-known organizations and products. If it can be checked out that would be great. I have not looked into the status of health tech and other acquired firms. Jgrudin (talk) 02:38, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Providing some links: Vista Equity Partners, Robert F. Smith (investor), PowerSchool (a redirect to Pearson Education#PowerSchool), Naviance, Schoology. Nothing very peculiar stands out to me, but maybe someone else will want to take a closer look. 97.113.167.129 (talk) 03:39, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Jgrudin. I have taken a look at the edit histories of several of the articles that you are alluding to, and see no evidence of "systematic removal of history and talk" in recent years. Can you provide diffs of specific edits, or at the very least, a specific assertion that specific article X was inappropriately edited on a specific specified date at a specific specified time? Without such specific information, it is very difficult for Teahouse hosts to investigate your claims. Cullen328 (talk) 05:37, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Oritae -- random line breaks

Does anyone know why some of the lines here seem to break randomly? For example: "Their territory appears to have ..." -- The line breaks just breaks there, even though there's plenty of space left. Thanks, 𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 (talk) 04:09, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

@Ficaia: Yep, it's also breaking for me. I think it is all of the non-breaking spaces:

The Oritae were a&nbsp;people&nbsp;inhabiting&nbsp;the&nbsp;sea-coast&nbsp;of&nbsp;Gedrosia,&nbsp;with&nbsp;whom&nbsp;[[Alexander the Great|Alexander]]&nbsp;fell&nbsp;in&nbsp;on his&nbsp;march&nbsp;from&nbsp;the&nbsp;[[Indus River|Indus]]&nbsp;to&nbsp;[[Persia]].<ref>Arr. ''Anab''. vi. 21, 22, 24, &c.</ref> Their&nbsp;territory&nbsp;appears&nbsp;to&nbsp;have been&nbsp;bounded&nbsp;on&nbsp;the&nbsp;east&nbsp;by&nbsp;the&nbsp;[[Hun River (Liao River tributary)|Arabis]],&nbsp;and&nbsp;on&nbsp;the west&nbsp;by&nbsp;a&nbsp;mountain&nbsp;spur&nbsp;which&nbsp;reached&nbsp;the&nbsp;sea&nbsp;at Cape&nbsp;Moran.<ref name=":1" />

I removed the zero width spaces and it seems to be fine now. I.hate.spam.mail.here (talk | contributions) 04:18, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

And also, for posterity, the randomly breaking version is here. I.hate.spam.mail.here (talk | contributions) 04:20, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Weird. Why would someone go to the trouble of inserting all of these non-breaking spaces? Hmmm.... 73.127.147.187 (talk) 07:07, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

I'd assume there was a glitch when copy+pasting from a word processing program. 97.113.167.129 (talk) 14:21, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Questions about referencing

I've just added some references to the article Native Son (1951 film), and I have some questions. First, I used the same source for two references, #6 and #10. I know I'd usually have to use a sort of "ibid" style for the second reference (and I would need help with that), but I'm not sure it's appropriate here because some of the references that were there already use superscripts, and I don't know what they're there for, maybe another way of formatting the same reference multiple times? (Refs # 2, 3, 4, and 11; 1 and 13 don't use the superscripts.) Ref. #13 seems strange to me: it is short and in the Reference Notes subsection with all the others, but it refers to a full reference above under the Reference section heading. Why would that one reference be listed in different place, and be referred to separately? Finally, all the links in my reference work (#'s 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 12) but the only links that are highlighted in blue are #'s 8 and 12. Is there a problem? Pete Best Beatles (talk) 04:58, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Pete Best Beatles. That article uses a format that includes both references and reference notes. I find that style of referencing bizarre and incomprehensible, although I think that it is an an acceptable variant. As for references used more than once, WP:REFNAME should be informative. Cullen328 (talk) 05:47, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

URL Access Level - Registration, Subscription or Limited?

If you have to pay to view a URL in full, is that classed as Registration, Subscription or Limited?

I suspect the answer is Subscription, however I don't know what it means by Limited so it could also be that. Danstarr69 (talk) 07:44, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. It would help to know specifically what you are referencing; are you attempting to edit an article? 331dot (talk) 07:57, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

I'm correcting a "news" reference which someone has added incorrectly (along with other things on a stub article with just 2 references), so that it appears under references, rather than by itself.

I'm also adding a link to Newspapers.com to that reference, along with an archive link.

You have to pay for a subscription to view articles there, so I want to know whether I should list the "URL Access Level" for that link as Registration, Subscription or Limited. Danstarr69 (talk) 08:21, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi Danstarr69. I checked on what other editors had done by searching for "newspapers.com" in the Wikipedia search box. I quickly found List of WBA world champions which has lots of these sort of references. They use Subscription=paid=red padlock, which seems correct to me when I click the link to that website. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:28, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Michael D. Turnbull Any idea what "Limited" means? Danstarr69 (talk) 12:58, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

I assume (but I've not checked the Help pages) that it is for sites which allow readers a limited number of views without payment. The UK Times website is like that see this link for how that works. So on that site I can do three searches/reads a week, I think. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:08, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Publishing my new article

 Courtesy link: User:Cape doctor/Michael Mosoeu Moerane

I have just completed, after two weeks' work, an article on the black African composer Michael Mosoeu Moerane. I pushed the Publish button, but now I am wondering what happens next... Cape doctor (talk) 08:53, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

This is good stuff, Cape doctor. It's the best draft I've seen in quite a while. In preparation for its promotion to article status, I've moved it to Draft:Michael Mosoeu Moerane and posted an comment/request at its head that may annoy you -- but, well, writing for Wikipedia is a pain, as you've no doubt already realized. -- Hoary (talk) 09:28, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi Cape doctor I see that the article has now been moved to Mainspace, so well done. Next steps are to add some categories (see WP:CATEGORY) so more people can find it. Also, are you aware of the did you know.... system which will place a "hook" from the article on to the Mainpage? Nomination is a bit of a faff the first time you do it but the nomination page (and more guidance) is here. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:18, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

This is so encouraging, thank you Cape doctor (talk) 16:21, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Mike Turnbull, adding categories is I think an extraordinarily complex and difficult process for the new editor. I've added a bunch. However, my addition was rather sleepy and it's very likely that I've made the odd mistake and almost certain that I've failed to add some that beneficially could be added. Perhaps you'd care to look at my work and improve on it. -- Hoary (talk) 13:53, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Hoary, agreed! I just wanted to make Cape doctor aware of the system and maybe add Category:Choral composers as a learning exercise. Very often the editor who accepts a Draft adds some relevant categories but in this case Kenpmi did the move and perhaps because they are also relatively inexperienced didn't do that. I checked your own additions and they seem perfect, although I did remove Category:South African composers as that is implied by your addition of Category:South African male composers of which it is a sub-category. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:20, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Dear Michael (and Hoary) - you have both greatly improved the article's visibility. Thank you! I didn't know about Categories and Hooks, thank you again. But I'm not sure what the status of the article is now and I'm terrified of messing it up. Additional Categories could be: Rhodes University alumni, W.B. du Bois, Pan-Africanism, Symphonic poem, Hymn, Church music, Spirituals, Maseru (capital of Lesotho), Morija (town in Lesotho), Thabo Mbeki, Epainette Mbeki, Joshua Pulumo Mohapeloa. Err.... how do I add them? Cape doctor (talk) 16:43, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Cape doctor As Hoary said, I don't think you should worry too much about adding further categories and some of the possibilities you mention may not be established categories in any case. Your article is now part of the main encyclopaedia (we call this "Mainspace") and although it may not yet be indexed by third-party search engines like Google, it will be in due course. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:10, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi Mike

Does this mean that it is not public, or approved, yet and I can still work on it? I am trying to resolve the issue you mentioned about using "Private Collection" that you pointed out, by finding secondary sources (even ones already cited) that can support the same information. Should I carry on doing this? Cape doctor (talk) 17:40, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

@Cape doctor, everything you write on WP is public, like this page we're on right now can be seen by anyone who knows where it is. Drafts are also public, but not indexed by, for example, Google. Michael Mosoeu Moerane is in article-space, but that doesn't mean you or anyone interested should stop improving it. WP:BOLD is the law of the land. All WP-articles are works in progress. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:05, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Got it! Cape doctor (talk) 18:20, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Well I thought I had it. I'm really trying to grasp where the article "is" now, or where it "will be" when it is "published". If I log out and search for this article as an ordinary user, I can't see it or access it yet, and that is what is frustrating me. I'm looking for enlightenment... Cape doctor (talk) 18:42, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi, @Cape doctor! To enlarge on something Michael D. Turnbull mentioned in passing; many editors can, and some do, publish articles straight to Mainspace without going through the review process yours has, and sometimes these are substandard. To limit the latter's exposure before they can be brought up to standard, access by Google's (and others') web crawlers is blocked either until the article has been checked by the New Page Patrol reviewers, or 90 days has passed. Before either of these, a Google (etc.) search won't find the article, though a search within Wikipedia will.

The NPP may release the new Article to the Web, improve it and then release it, or revert it to (or back to) Draft space for further work: in some extreme cases where someone has tried to slip blatantly poor material past us, they might even reject and delete the item.

You certainly don't have to worry about this; your article is good enought that the NPP will likely mark it as patrolled (lifting the crawler block) as soon as they see it (problematic cases take longer to decide on). After that it might take anything from minutes to a couple of days before the crawlers make their next pass. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.208.88.97 (talk) 18:43, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Anybody else working on this?

Dear Experienced People,

I see we don't have Wikipedia biographies of either Gerlin Bean or Mavis Best, UK black women activists. I am happy to start working on one or two of these. How do I find out if anyone else has started on them? Wouldn't want to get in the way or duplicate. ~~~ Balance person (talk) 10:16, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi Balance person it does not appear that anyone is working on either. How do you find out? put the name in quotes in the searchbox, click "search for pages containing" then change the "search in" to "all" and re-search - there are 5 entries for each person (one of which is your question) - none are in draft articles or user sandboxes - someone could be working on it "off-wiki" but we have no way of ever knowing that - best wishes - Arjayay (talk) 10:30, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your very helpful reply! I will have a go then.~~~ Balance person (talk) 10:35, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

e/c Hi, Balance person, welcome to the Teahouse. You can search drafts by putting Draft: in front of the name of the subject, so in this case putting Draft:Gerlin Bean etc in the search bar, but it's not as thorough as Arjayay's method so i would recommend you use that instead. Make sure to check the article subject against notability criteria before you start, from a quick look Gerlin Bean might have more sources to reference. Regards, Zindor (talk) 10:34, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Will do, thank you Zindor for your suggestion.~~~ Balance person (talk) 10:37, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

If you're not already aware, I'd recommend Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red, Balance person. Cordless Larry (talk) 12:00, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Oh, I see you're already a member. I should have looked at your user page before making that suggestion! Cordless Larry (talk) 12:01, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Ha HA! Sort of thing I do all the time, Larry! Thanks! ~~~ Balance person (talk) 14:09, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

how to upload info about a person

hi, i want to write about my father who is a politician and want to create a wikipedia page for him, how can i do that. Poonam.ss (talk) 14:16, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

It appears you have already started to do the drafting on your User Page, which is not the correct place for this. See WP:UPYES for what can go there. You have a steep learning curve to climb. Wikipedia does not have "pages" in the sense used by social media: it has articles about topics, not written in any way to benefit the topic but to benefit our readers. So, start by reading, not writing, first the help page WP:YFA and the policy page WP:BLP. Then read very carefully Wikipedia's policy on conflict of interest editing. If you still want to proceed, use the WP:AFC process to create a draft that others will approve (or not). Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:29, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hi Poonam.ss and thanks for contributing in wikipedia. Wikipedia has Articles instead of pages. Creating an articles is a hardest work in Wikipedia. If the subject is Notable then you are able to create article on that particular subject. I noticed that you are trying to write an article about your father, so you have to consider this conflict of interest and you must have the knowledge about reliable sources. And take a look at your first article and article for creation probably this may helps you. Thank you and happy editing. Fade258 (talk) 14:32, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Better skin back

I clicked today: "Try out Wikipedia's new skin". It promised a lot of improvements. Not good. Seems to be for mini-screens. Since this is an experiment, according to the ad, how do I get back the better "skin" ? Jari Rauma (talk) 14:47, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello, @Jari Rauma, and welcome to the Teahouse! If you go to the "appearance" section of your preferences (should be on the top-right of your display), you should be able to change your Wikipedia skin back to the default. Have a good day! HenryTemplo (talk) 15:11, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

hi @Jari Rauma and welcome to the teahouse! you can switch back to the previous skin by going to Preferences > Appearance > Skins > Vector legacy (2010). happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 15:11, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the answer. I found it myself also from Google. It took 20 minutes. There is an error in the wiki's instructions at this point. There it is said to look for the point "skin", but there was no word "skin". This is how foreigners are misled when you are not precise. For the new 2022 skin: I prefer Wikiwand and 2010 skin. Jari Rauma (talk) 15:25, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Charlie hebdo issue no.2011

I took down a picture of a cartoon of what people thought was the prophet SAW but someone put it back on?? For what reason is this?? Lethalhuntress (talk) 15:50, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Lethalhuntress. The simple answer is that Wikipedia is not censored. It is an encyclopaedia serving the whole world and different people will vary in what they consider as offensive. Provided that images are relevant to the articles in which they appear, they won't be removed just because someone dislikes them. Why did you choose to read that article out of the millions we have here? Were you expecting to find something you didn't like and could censor? Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:57, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Well, actually I was doing research for my studies and came across this, I had no intention to surf the internet and find offensive material, I just came across this, I have a life thank you. Lethalhuntress (talk) 16:44, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Mike Turnbull, I think your rhetorical question goes a little too far. I'm sure many people come to Wikipedia and look up some topic they feel strongly about a topic, in order to see how it's dealt with. And as far as that goes, I think there's nothing wrong with that; they can perhaps point out things where biases so common they're hardly recognized have crept in. I'm sure, for example, that many of the people who would censor things here backed by Newsmax and Life Lobby--as being unreliable sources--feel VERY strongly that NPR is to be trusted (whether it is or not); that Trump is a white-supremacist (whether he is or not); that his claims about election fraud are without basis (whether that's true or not); and that the SPLC labeling a group as a hate group is a clear indication that it IS a hate group (whether it is or not). I'm sure that claim that Wikipedia is not censored is made honestly. Nevertheless, there is certainly room for discussion about it. Uporządnicki (talk) 16:57, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

More context at Wikipedia:Content disclaimer. WP has stuff that can be seen as objectionable, it's like the rest of the internet/world in that way. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:14, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

I wanted to reply to the person who commented on my comment. Thank you for your reply, but it’s not because I dislike it- it’s not a petty issue. This material is deemed offensive to not just me but all Muslims, it shouldn’t be allowed to appear on Wikipedia as it’s mocking our religion and frankly spreading misinformation, it doesn’t matter if Wikipedia is not censored, this isn’t freedom of speech this is an insult and a mockery. As a Muslim it’s my duty to warn you heavily of the consequences of these actions, but this isn’t where you can say what you can, I could literally create a page about other religions and chat shit about other things but I’m not, because humans have a duty to respect one another. If people wish to continue to upload stuff like this, then you’ll see consequences for yourself. Lethalhuntress (talk) 16:43, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

As you might expect, you are not the first person to comment on images that might be offensive to Muslims. Wikipedia has implemented a way to make it less likely you would see one. The Help page Help:Options to hide an image gives instruction about how to implement this on your account when logged in. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:57, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Lethalhuntress An encyclopedia that removed everything that offended one group or another would leave very little behind. Almost everything is offensive to someone. 331dot (talk) 17:46, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Map optimization in infobox

There is an article named Uttara. Recently I am working on its map in the infobox. I want to make its map like Inverted shape or shape from Template:Maplink. But I can't understand the template. Also there are coordinates feature I need to understand to make the map. How can I do it. Can anyone help me? Mehedi Abedin 18:08, 15 May 2022 (UTC)