User talk:Dman677879: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 20:18, 25 June 2022

Dman677879, you are invited to the Teahouse!

Hi Dman677879! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia.
Be our guest at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a friendly space where new editors can ask questions about contributing to Wikipedia and get help from experienced editors like Worm That Turned (talk).

Visit the Teahouse

We hope to see you there!

Delivered by HostBot on behalf of the Teahouse hosts

16:01, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

@@ Line 18: / Line 18: @@
 |}
 [[Category:Wikipedians who have received a Teahouse invitation]]<!-- Template:Teahouse_HostBot_Invitation -->
-== https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States#21st-century_wars ==
-"Defeat is still red regardless of US involvement."
-It is a withdrawal/status quo ante bellum, which is blue. Not one country admitted defeat, however they did announce they would be withdrawing. Not to mention the only troops there have been security forces and not combat since 2015, 7 years now...
-[[Withdrawal (military)|https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_(military)]]
-[[Status quo ante bellum|https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_quo_ante_bellum]]
-"You don't seem to realize that the Taliban took control of Kabul and claimed victory before the US finished their evacuation."
-How exactly does that make it a defeat? Really, explain how. The Taliban can claim whatever they want, it doesn't make it true. You're taking the authority of the taliban over the consensus reached at Wikipedia. The US was in peace talks with the Taliban and already agreed to leave, it wasn't a smooth withdrawal and the overall mission could be considered a failure, but the US was not defeated... What's the point of having the blue colour if you're just going to chalk everything up to a victory/defeat based on the media's biased reporting and ignoring the actual definitions.
-Below is from NATO's official website, go there and click under 'Milestones in relations'. Nowhere does it mention a defeat.
-https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_8189.htm
-The definition of victory/defeat should only mean militarily here, if not, can you please tell me what other adverb does describe the victory/defeat here? On the Chinese page it clearly says militarily, why is that the case there but not here? It is a withdrawal. Other pages use the term withdrawal with a neutral/blue colour. Why is the US page different?
---[[Special:Contributions/5.151.88.4|5.151.88.4]] ([[User talk:5.151.88.4|talk]]) 18:56, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
-:Blue means that there was different outcome at the end of a war that's neither victory nor defeat, and the Taliban has claimed victory in the war, defeated the afghan government that the US clearly backed and took Kabul before the US can even finish their withdrawal. What you're doing is just making everything confusing and you don't even know what defeat and outcomes of wars really mean. Bottom line, the Taliban won the war and most American commanders who had served in the war had admitted that it was a defeat. [[User:Dman677879|Dman677879]] ([[User talk:Dman677879#top|talk]]) 19:02, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
-::So, how can pages simultaneously use the terms withdrawal/status quo ante bellum, but also they can't? It just depends on the admin's final say, and not the community discussion. Just disregard what the Taliban claims, that's not how wars are decided. Otherwise China would be the supreme world power and never lost a war. From what it sounds like, any support in a war makes that country a belligerent.
-::1. The US funds the YPG/PKK (A US military general stated that the PKK -> YPG -> SDF was just a rebranding of the same organization, which is important according to you) and arms them.
-::2. Turkey is at war with the YPG/PKK.
-::3. Turkey has won all of the conflicts except one ceasefire.
-::4. For some reason, they're called 'Northern Syria' on the Wiki page. Nevermind that it's not a real country.
-::5. So, according to your own logic. I can replace Northern Syria with the actual belligerents, of which there are many. PKK has been caught using US and Swedish made arms for example. Pictures of YPG and PKK leaders together celebrating have been shared.
-::Are you going to agree with me here, or admit you don't make any sense? [[Special:Contributions/5.151.88.4|5.151.88.4]] ([[User talk:5.151.88.4|talk]]) 19:17, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
-:::If you're using the term defeat, it means that if has to be red and not blue. Afghanistan is now mostly in control of the Taliban and the afghan government that they defeated was built by the US from the ground up, so that means that it's defeat in my book, and so many other publications have said that the war was a total failure and defeat. [[User:Dman677879|Dman677879]] ([[User talk:Dman677879#top|talk]]) 19:25, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
-::::I kept 'defeat' there to find a middle ground with the people who kept ignoring the consensus reached, like you. A better term would actually be something like 'Withdrawal / NATO failure'. Btw, NATO's military support to the Afghan gov ended with ISAF in 2014. RSM is called a combatant on the US page, even though they offered literally 0 combat troops. The ISAF mission was a success, yet it is lumped into the overall war when other operations aren't on other pages. I won't do something like open a new discussion, the consensus was literally already reached. I linked it below. You are the one who is supposed to open a new discussion if you want to debate it. The publications use big words like that, please don't tell me you're blue pilled.
-::::What adverb would you use to describe the victories/defeats, if not militarily? Why is it militarily on the Chinese page but not here?
-::::https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States/Archive_3#Afganistan_war [[Special:Contributions/5.151.88.4|5.151.88.4]] ([[User talk:5.151.88.4|talk]]) 19:37, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
-:::::It seems to me like you're the one who's being blue pilled and that you're just making things up and you just like vandalizing pages and harassing other users like me who clearly know what defeat really means and what you've done has just made thing confusing. Also, RSM had ground troops in afghan to aid the local government in their fight against the Taliban, but early engaged in direct combat. Now can you please back off, or do I have to ask an administrator to block or ban you? [[User:Dman677879|Dman677879]] ([[User talk:Dman677879#top|talk]]) 19:49, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
-::::::Ask the admin. You are not engaged in discussion, you ignore every question and act like you know everything about the subject but provide nothing. You are literally the one bullying, harassing and vandalizing consensus-reached edits. [[Special:Contributions/5.151.88.4|5.151.88.4]] ([[User talk:5.151.88.4|talk]]) 19:53, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
-:::::::Yeah? Well, no other user has reverted what I've done, and other users have also pointed out the errors that you've done and you just put them in their place, when they had the right the point that out in the first place. [[User:Dman677879|Dman677879]] ([[User talk:Dman677879#top|talk]]) 19:57, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
-::::::::The discussion was the place to talk about it, and it's been closed with a clear consensus. Now, go ahead and ask an admin to "block or ban" me. [[Special:Contributions/5.151.88.4|5.151.88.4]] ([[User talk:5.151.88.4|talk]]) 20:01, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
-::::Also, when the admin added the protection to the page, he kept my edit... [[Special:Contributions/5.151.88.4|5.151.88.4]] ([[User talk:5.151.88.4|talk]]) 19:44, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
-:::::Also, Status quo ante bellum means that no side gains to loses any rights, and at the end of the war, the Taliban had gained more territory in their campaign, while we lost most of out territory, including Kabul. [[User:Dman677879|Dman677879]] ([[User talk:Dman677879#top|talk]]) 19:53, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
-::::::Not true. Share your source. [[Special:Contributions/5.151.88.4|5.151.88.4]] ([[User talk:5.151.88.4|talk]]) 19:54, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
-:::::::Yes it is. After the the Doha agreement, the Taliban violated those terms and launched their campaign against the afghan government, which led to them taking Kabul. [[User:Dman677879|Dman677879]] ([[User talk:Dman677879#top|talk]]) 19:59, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
-::::::::That's not a source which indicates their control of the country increased more than it already was before the war started. [[Special:Contributions/5.151.88.4|5.151.88.4]] ([[User talk:5.151.88.4|talk]]) 20:06, 25 June 2022 (UTC)