Talk:Organization XIII

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Organization XIII factsheet

Elements, weapons, and Nobodies are taken from the Ultimania, with the exception of Zexion's element, which was taken from a Famitsu interview with Nomura and Lexaeus' weapon, which is referred to as a tomahawk in his profiles for Chain of Memories and II. Original selves come from in-game information, Secret Ansem Report #2 and #3 in the case of Xigbar, Xaldin, Vexen, Lexaeus, and Zexion, with big, obvious scenes revolving around the original selves of Xemnas and Roxas.

Gaps with no confirmed information are:

• Original selves of Saïx, Axel, Demyx, Luxord, Marluxia, and Larxene.
• Nobodies of Vexen, Lexaeus, Zexion, Marluxia, and Larxene.

• I. Xemnas (ゼムナス, zemunasu)
  • Original self: Xehanort (ゼアノート, zeanōto), uses Ansem (アンセム, ansemu) for anagram
  • Element: Nothingness (無, mu)
  • Weapon: Aerial Blade (エアリアルブレード, eariaru barēdo)
  • Nobody: Sorcerer (ソーサラー, sōsarā)
• II. Xigbar (シグバール, shigubāru)
  • Original self: Braig (ブライグ, buraigu, mistranslated as Bleig)
  • Element: Space (空間, kūkan)
  • Weapon: Gun Arrow (ガンアロー, gan arō)
  • Nobody: Sniper (スナイパー, sunaipā)
• III. Xaldin (ザルディン, zarudin)
  • Original self: Dilan (ディラン, diran, mistranslated as Dilin)
  • Element: Wind (風, kaze)
  • Weapon: Lance (ランス, ransu)
  • Nobody: Dragoon (ドラグーン, doragūn)
• IV. Vexen (ヴィクセン, vikusen)
  • Original self: Even (エヴェン)
  • Element: Ice (氷, kōri)
  • Weapon: Shield (シールド, shīrudo)
  • Nobody: –
• V. Lexaeus (レクセウス, rekuseusu)
  • Original self: Aeleus (エレウス, ereusu, mistranslated as Eleus)
  • Element: Earth (土, tsuchi)
  • Weapon: Tomahawk as given in Lexaeus's journal profiles in Chain of Memories and II, Axe Sword (アックスソード, akku susōdo) in the Ultimania
  • Nobody: –
• VI. Zexion (ゼクシオン, zekushion)
  • Original self: Ienzo (イエンツォ, Ientso)
  • Element: Illusion (幻影, genei) [1]
  • Weapon: Book (本, hon) [2]
  • Nobody: –
• VII. Saïx (サイクス, saikusu, Ramanized as Saix in the Ultimania)
  • Original self: –
  • Element: Moon (月, tsuki)
  • Weapon: Claymore (クレイモア, kureimoa), Berserker weapons are referred to as hammers in their journal entry, but Saïx's weapon is not referred to
  • Nobody: Berserker (バーサーカー, bāsākā)
• VIII. Axel (アクセル, akuseru)
  • Original self: –
  • Element: Flame (炎, Homura)
  • Weapon: Chakram (チャクラム, chakuramu)
  • Nobody: Assassin (アサシン, asashin)
• IX. Demyx (デミックス, demikkusu)
  • Original self: –
  • Element: Water (水, mizu)
  • Weapon: Sitar (シタール, shitāru)
  • Nobody: Dancer (ダンサー, dansā)
• X. Luxord (ルクソード, rukusōdo)
  • Original self: –
  • Element: Time (時, toki)
  • Weapon: Card (カード, kādo)
  • Nobody: Gambler (ギャンブラー, gyanburā)
• XI. Marluxia (マールーシャ, mārūsha)
  • Original self: –
  • Element: Flower (花, hana)
  • Weapon: Scythe (サイズ, saizu)
  • Nobody: –
• XII. Larxene (ラクシーヌ, rakushīnu)
  • Original self: –
  • Element: Thunder (雷, kaminari)
  • Weapon: Knife (ナイフ, naifu)
  • Nobody: –
• XIII. Roxas (ロクサス, rokusasu)
  • Original self: Sora (ソラ)
  • Element: Light (光, hikari)
  • Weapon: Keyblade (キーブレード, kīburēdo)
  • Nobody: Samurai (サムライ)

Axel's section needs revision

I was going to revise his section myself, but, unfortunately, unregistered and newly-registered users aren't allowed to edit this article. So, I ask someone who is skilled in writing to re-craft Axel's section, as it's a travesty in terms of grammar and flow. If no one does it by the time I am not considered "newly-registered," then I'll do it myself. Machinamar 15:19, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't see anything wrong with it. What do you think needs to change? VI Zexion 23:48, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Should Roxas get his own article?

Roxas is IMHO, too important to the game not to have his own page. He should still be on Organization XIII's page, but also get his own, with more detail (perhaps such information as original fan speculation, but XIII's page have less in-depth info; just the basics).TruthTakesTime47

No. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 07:11, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

We have gone over this before. The answer is no. There is simply not enough to say about him to warrant an article. Axem Titanium 17:47, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

One could incorporate Roxas' story into Sora (Kingdom Hearts) if they really wanted to, though. We did the same for Xehanort. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 22:31, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Zexion's Weapon

It looks like Zexion's weapon is making an appearence RE:Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories, and it's... Riku's keyblade? O_o[3]

It's a manifestation of Zexion's Illusion power, not his actual weapon. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 09:55, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

It's been confirmed that Zexion can use his power of illusion to mimic others' weapons, but he actually has his own actual weapon. And that's not a Keyblade, it's just a fancy sword called Soul Eater.—ウルタプ 16:41, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Well in the newest magazine scans he was shown using a book as his weapon, so I think this is his true weapon since Sora doesn't fight using a book.--Emokid200618 11:23, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Let's not jump to conclusions, we'll just have to wait and see what is going on. Evilgidgit 12:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

"Jump to conclusions"? The book IS Zexion's "weapon". How could anyone think otherwise? NeoSeifer

Better pic for Roxas?

This has been bugging me since forever, why is Roxas' Organization attire pic so bad? Can someone find a better pic with him wielding his weapons? (Leonhart9999 23:09, 5 January 2007 (UTC))

Feel free to find this nonexistent render. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 18:53, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Lexaeus' original name?

It's listed as "Aeleus" on the page now (and the mistranslation "Eleus" is mentioned as well)... but, if I remember right, it was always listed as "Elaeus" before. Which one's right? I know Elaeus sounds/looks a heck of a lot better, but Squeenix does have something of a history of choosing the shittier translation when there's two choices... 63.215.28.145 00:52, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

"Elaeus" was a fan Romanization of the katakana that adhered to the whole "anagram with 'X'" rule, but Aeleus works as well and is official.—ウルタプ 01:02, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Where exactly in the official stuff is "Aeleus" used? Even after the Ultimania translations came out, the only name I ever saw anywhere was Elaeus. I think I remember someone mentioning the European releases had it as "Alaeus," but that doesn't work either (2 A's and 1 E... supposed to be the other way around); so that's another mistranslation. The only place I've ever seen Aeleus used is Wikipedia, and even here it was a pretty recent change (at least a couple months after Ultimania translations and English-language KH2 were available). Just seems a little fishy to me; I'd like to see where the name was officially stated, that's all. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.215.28.145 (talk) 01:22, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

It's in the PAL (Europe) release of Kingdom Hearts II. The Splendiferous Gegiford 01:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

As a note, the original names are only from the Secret Ansem Reports, not the various Ultimania translations out there. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 02:01, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

'Human-derived fictional species'

I've noticed that "Organization XIII" is listed under the list of 'Human-derived fictional species.' Shouldn't that be Nobodies? After all, there are more Nobodies than just the Organization (Namine is proof of that)... and the Organization is a group, not a species, unlike the Nobodies. 68.58.27.163 02:25, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

This is also the Nobody article, as there isn't a whole lot to say about the species. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 02:33, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Before I do something stupid

There's something I want to add to the article but I want to confirm this before I do, is the orginization really evil? All they want are their hearts back, to be whole once more, in KHII Namine states she isn't sure if the orginization is evil, Xemnas is the only one that I think could be defined as evil, and even then he simply wants his heart back just as much as the others do, they really didn't deserve to die, the poor things. BassxForte 00:34, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'll admit the party's responses to Xemnas's bleeding-heart "why won't you let us exist" speech made them sound like bigots, but it's more their questionable methods…you know, "hell is paved with good intentions" and such…—ウルタプ 05:37, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I just want to make absoulutly sure before i say "orginization is not really evil" in the article, they can't really feel emotions, (although they can fake them quite well) so they probably can't feel regret over their actions, Xemnas and Sai'x are the only ones I would view as evil, although Larxene could be considered evil too. BassxForte 06:18, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Please don't add this. It'd only come off as bad fancruft, and is only your assumption. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 12:07, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I know that Square-Enix hasn't officaly said they are good or evil but... I don't see how anyone could really view them as evil. BassxForte 19:37, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Look, the point is they're antagonists. Whether they're evil or not per se is insignificant beyond the fact that they're against the protagonists.—ウルタプ 20:36, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Well... maybe i'm an obsessive little weirdo who has to speculate every little thing about this subject? BassxForte 21:41, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

"Is fictional character x evil or not" isn't something that we dabble in. We report facts. Nothing more. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 02:16, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

"report facts"? How about reporting the fact Namine clearly states she isn't sure if the orginization is good or evil? BassxForte 20:32, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

...haven't I already said "antagonist" makes evil not? Whether they are actually EVIL or NOT they are opposed by the protagonists vice versa.—ウルタプ 00:23, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Naminé says she doesn't know because she doesn't know. Roxas says they're bad. Whose word do we take? Who cares? Why do you care so much? The words "evil" and "villain" are not found in the article, so I have no idea what you're making a fuss about. ' 03:34, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

When Roxas said that, it was a question, he asked Namine if they were evil, and Namine said she didn't know, as for why i'm making a "fuss", i'm a big fan of the series, so these is fiind of expected to me. BassxForte 04:56, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

A question kinda needs a question mark. Being a fan of the series doesn't mean you need turn Wikipedia into a soapbox for you to decide whether some fictional characters from a cruddy video game are evil or not. I, nor anybody else, will let that happen. Discussion over. ' 16:32, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Um... a discussion can't be over until someone with greater power interferes, or both sides come to an agreement, i'm not trying to turn wikipedia into a soapbox or put my personal speculation on this page, I don't understand why your being so nasty about this. BassxForte 17:40, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

We're being nasty because we gave you an answer politely and you had to keep pressing, maybe?—ウルタプ 17:46, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

A discussion is over when one party fails to see the point of continuing it. ' 17:54, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

If one party fails to see a point in continueing a disscussion and stops then they lose, and your excuse for being nasty is a very poor one. BassxForte 19:34, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

"They lose"? Grow up, already. This argument bores the shit out of me and is not productive, thus I'm not continuing it. You aren't getting what you want. I know this. Urutapu knows this. I see no need to mull over this any further, regardless of your halfassed "rules" of discussion. ' 19:55, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Please remain rational about this, and remember not to insult others, you shouldn't follow wikipedia's rules religiously. BassxForte 00:26, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I have to side with ' and Urutapu on this. What we CAN say, is that they are the antagonists of the game. That's all. Nothing is said about them being evil or good, and it's already stated what their goal is. The rest is up to personal interpretation. - Zero1328 _Talk? 03:34, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I just wanted to improve this article, but I wanted to verify the fact before I did so, I don't know why you two insisted on turning the discussion into an argument, this discussion should not continue, if you two would just shut up this should be the last post for this discussion. BassxForte 19:11, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

...you were the person who wouldn't stop.—ウルタプ 19:16, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

But it's technically your fault the conversation devolved into an argument, don't add anymore to this discussion, i've really had enough of it. BassxForte 20:05, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Please stop blaming others for your failures. If you've had enough of this discussion, then stop replying. That's what I did. ' 20:26, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Then why are you replying now? I'm not blaiming others for my failures, i'm blaiming others for their failures, not stop replying, i'm sick of this. BassxForte 22:15, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not trying to rekindle an unwanted discussion, but I'd just like to point out that the Organization is filled with characters who are evil. Members I - VI are all traitors to Ansem the Wise. Marluxia and Larxene are power-hungry Nobodies who want to overthrow the Organization. Axel tries to kill Roxas, and kidnaps Kairi. Lastly, you mustn't forget that the Organization is sending the Heartless into various worlds, trying to turn innocent people into Heartless just so they can collect hearts. The fact that they cannot feel remorse for their actions is irrelevant, because few fictional villains actually regard their own actions as evil. The fact of the matter is that the Organization's behaviour is contrary to the morals that Disney would normally preach, and that is why they are evil. Leonhart9999 03:11, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

It may involve Disney chaarcters but it is Square-Enix who made the game. BassxForte 17:55, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

It is a Disney game, outsourced to Square Enix for game development. The Final Fantasy characters are cameos. Disney owns the rights to Kingdom Hearts and all the Kingdom Hearts characters. And Square Enix doesn't preach that it's just and right for someone to commit bad acts as long as they have a distorted sense of righteousness, Organization XIII is still evil. Leonhart9999 00:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

If this isn't going anywhere that's relevant to editing the article, then please take it a forum. ' 00:26, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Enough! Take this conversation elsewhere! It does not belong on wikipedia! Although I started it I can't take responsability to where it led. BassxForte 00:37, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes you can, you've been commenting on every response. You've done nothing to prevent this from coming to where it is so yea I think you do have to take responsibility. Even though you told them to stop responding you were constantly responding to their comments, if you reall wanted it to end you would have just ignored them.--Emokid200618 11:32, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Larxene

Why is there that tag in Larxene's page? The "She dies, accept it!"? BassxForte 00:25, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

It's a vandalism countermeasure placed back when the game was just released. There was alot more vandalism back then. - Zero1328 _Talk? 03:34, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Diffrence in Death

Should it be mentioned that orginization members die difrrently in KHII then COM? BassxForte 00:05, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

If you mean the animation or whatever, then no, I don't think so. They probably decided to make it a lot fancier going from GBA to PS2, but they're both described by characters as "fading away."—ウルタプ 00:11, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Let's see... in COM their sprite just kinda fades into nothingness... but in KHII their body seems to piece apart and go to darkness. BassxForte 18:41, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

While we're at it, let's note how they apparently don't have mouths. ' 19:02, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Huh? What are you talking about? BassxForte 20:01, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

The sprites don't have mouths, unlike the polygon models, which have mouths. My point is that comparing the graphics of games from two entirely different systems is pointless. ' 21:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, always nice to have people make fun of you when you TRY TO IMPROVE AN ARTICLE. BassxForte 22:00, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not really interested in further conversation with somebody who finds offense in everything. Stop taking everything so seriously. ' 22:48, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not taking things too seriously, simply pointing out that when I tried to help, you responded with sarcasm. BassxForte 23:14, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Japanese names

I see that some of the members have been given their translated names in Japansese and some are not done. I have done some research and managed to find out some:

• Vexen = To freeze scholar Vexen (needs some sorting out).
• Demyx = Nocturne of Preparation/Investigation/Inspection Demyx Evilgidgit 12:45, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

The ones that aren't there are close enough to the English to not bother.—ウルタプ 13:53, 22 February 2007 (UTC)