Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Weaver Junction

Weaver Junction

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Weaver Junction (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Clearly fails WP:GNG - railway junctions generally do not merit their own article and article relies almost entirely on a single book. Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 17:42, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Transportation and England. Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 17:42, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

I completely disagree on this one. Weaver Junction is absolutely key and notable on West Coast Route Modernisation, West Coast Main Line and all electrification schemes on that route. Could the references be added to and improved? Of course. But delete? Strong NO from me. And btw using the phrase “clearly” in fails WP:GNG is in my opinion a clear violation of neutral point of view. But hey, I will go with the majority. GRALISTAIR (talk) 01:23, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

I agree with GRALISTAIR. The article may be short on words and citations, but it should remain (and be improved) because the junction is one of the most important on the West Coast Main Line, in that it connects Liverpool, Merseyside, north Cheshire and south Lancashire with the rest of the country to the south. Its notability supports the opinion that the article should remain. And the article is linked to 81 other articles.--Peter I. Vardy (talk) 07:58, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

QUOTE --- and the article is linked to 81 other articles - END QUOTE. EXACTLY - way too important. Lets improve the article. I volunteer to help GRALISTAIR (talk) 13:06, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

A cursory examination of the "what links here" page shows that almost all of those links come from articles that contain Template:St Helens and Runcorn Gap Railway. That doesn't make this article "important" and regardless that's not a valid rationale for keeping. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 00:46, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

• Delete/Redirect to West Coast Main Line. The most I could find on this junction is [1] which isn't nearly enough to meet GNG. Existing references only mention the junction in passing or as a waypoint (construction of improvements between Weaver Junction and other locations). I've tried several different searches and can't come up with much of anything. Unless someone can find significant coverage I couldn't (which is theoretically possible as I live in the U.S. and not the U.K.) this doesn't demonstrate notability. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 00:54, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
• Keep. I see no merit in deleting this at all. The article appears well sourced and informative. I'm no longer in Cheshire to check but the small Nantwich public library had a whole bookcase stuffed with books on Cheshire railways and the much bigger ones in Crewe/Chester would have more. Espresso Addict (talk) 19:20, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Looking at the edit history, it appears that GRALISTAIR has greatly improved this since nomination, apparently refuting the notion that it fails to meet GNG. Espresso Addict (talk) 19:26, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Only a few of the refs have anything really to do with the junction (those being references 1, 14 and 19). Others are simply about line upgrades that happened to include the line at Weaver Junction; they are not about the junction itself. The content is largely about the West Coast Main Line with only incidental mention of the junction itself. The fact that electrification for a time ended at Weaver Junction doesn't make the junction notable. To the untrained eye it looks like the article meets GNG, but if you dig deeper you can see most of the article has little to do with its supposed subject. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 20:07, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

"Only a few of the refs have anything really to do with the junction (those being references 1, 14 and 19)" -- seems to me you are writing that it does, in fact, meet GNG, with multiple independent sources? Espresso Addict (talk) 20:22, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

I can't access reference 1, but it's citing only one page, so I am not optimistic it's significant coverage. Reference 14, now that I've actually read it, is only a single paragraph, and is both primary and only incidentally about the junction itself - it's mostly just talking about a survey of sites of historical interest around the location of an electrical cable extension. Not significant coverage. Reference 19 is primary and only incidentally talks about the junction. So no, it does not meet GNG. We need multiple reliable, independent, secondary sources which provide significant coverage of the subject. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 20:35, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

• I have notified Wikiproject Cheshire. Espresso Addict (talk) 20:32, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
• Weak merge or redirect to West Coast Main Line per reasons provided by Trainsandotherthings. I think the junction could be noteworthy but not enough for a standalone article. XtraJovial (talk • contribs) 20:50, 24 September 2022 (UTC)