Talk:Hollywood, Los Angeles

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Alternative name derivation

Toyon is a prominent component of the coastal sage scrub plant community, and is a part of drought-adapted chaparral and mixed oak woodland habitats. It is also known by the common names Christmas berry and California holly. Accordingly, "the abundance of this species in the hills above Los Angeles... gave rise to the name Hollywood."

Kortoso (talk) 22:16, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

"'Tis the season when the rich green crown of the toyon bush is aglow with a mass of red berries. At a time when most members of the chaparral community have donned their winter gray, the toyon--also known variously as Christmas berry or California holly--is the most festive of flora.

"This holly-day hike to Mt. Hollywood, highest peak in Griffith Park, offers fine clear-day views of the Los Angeles basin, framed by the Christmas berry bushes growing alongside the trail. It's believed that masses of this California native shrub growing on the hills above Hollywood gave the community its name.

"Botanically speaking, the 6-to-25-foot high evergreen shrub is in no sense a holly, but its timely appearance is a delight to the holiday hiker and something to point to when friends from colder climes claim that "there's nothing Christmasy about Southern California." (It might seem inviting to deck your halls with boughs of California holly, but collection is strictly forbidden by state law.)"[1]

Kortoso (talk) 19:26, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

Given that there were already half a dozen places in the USA called Hollywood by the time of the founding of Hollywood, Ca., I think the story about the Chinese man is probably apocryphal. For that matter, there have been places in Ireland and England called Hollywood for centuries.Ordinary Person (talk) 03:27, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

The history of Hollywood section needs better sourcing. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 08:09, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Article with another origin https://www.irishcentral.com/travel/hollywood-name-ireland where named by an immigrant from Hollywood,_County_Wicklow. Chuunen Baka (talk • contribs) 14:58, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

References

"Tinseltown" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Tinseltown. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 December 31#Tinseltown until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Cnilep (talk) 10:06, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 9 March 2022

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved as proposed as to "Hollywood"; as to the base page name, there is a clear consensus to disambiguate at this time. Although discussion centered on the neighborhood and the film industry, I note in passing that the disambiguation page has over 100 other meanings of "Hollywood". BD2412 T 18:02, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

• Hollywood → Hollywood, Los Angeles
• Cinema of the United States → Hollywood

– I believe the current names for these two articles has a few issues: it leaves Cinema of the United States at not its WP:COMMONNAME, leaves Hollywood not WP:CONSISTENT with all the other Neighborhoods of Los Angeles, and does not give the clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC of the term "Hollywood" to the movie industry. "Hollywood actor/actress", History of Hollywood, Hollywood blacklist etc., references to "Hollywood" in reliable sources and on Wikipedia are rarely referring to the actual physical location versus the industry named after it. The current situation leaves lots of room for erroneous links in articles to a specific (though still notable and important) Los Angeles neighborhood, many of which can be seen when looking at the list. Examples of reliable sources using "Hollywood" without clarifying they mean the industry not the place: [2][3][4][5][6]. I had difficulty finding articles that use "Hollywood" to refer to the place without clarifying they mean the neighborhood outside of local reports regarding construction and crime, since so much of a google search is about the movie industry. Cerebral726 (talk) 17:09, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

• How about having the disambiguation page at the basename? (which would be support 1st, oppose 2nd). One could argue that there's no primary topic between [Hollywood referring to the actual place in LA] vs. [Hollywood as a synonym for the cinema of the United States], so in that case, moving the disambiguation page Hollywood (disambiguation) to the basename of "Hollywood" might make sense. Paintspot Infez (talk) 19:15, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

  I considered that as a possibility, but I don't think it ultimately addresses 2 of the 3 major issues with how it currently is, assuming that Hollywood would still need to move to Hollywood, Los Angeles. Most importantly, I see the industry as the clear primary topic from shear volume of discussion of cinema in the United States (entire fields of study are based around it, magazines named after, etc.) versus the neighborhood that derives almost all of its notability from the metonymic industry .--Cerebral726 (talk) 20:04, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

• Weak support 1st, oppose 2nd per Paintspot, while this or the Cinema may qualify as a broad-concept article Hollywood (miniseries) gets 40,829 views compared with 52,580[[7]] for this one and there are a lot of other uses so the DAB may be the best option. Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:30, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
• Support first, oppose second. Cinema of the United States is a clearer name for an article than Hollywood. Hollywood is commonly used to refer to both American cinema and the neighborhood in Los Angeles. Crossover1370 (talk | contribs) 16:08, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
• Support first, oppose second, and move disambig to primary for now - Contrary to the hype, the Hollywood, CA-based film industry is not the totality of cinema in the US. I would support the creation of a proper "Hollywood (film industry)" article detailing the history and current impact of the industry centered in that city. Cinema of the United States needs to be all-inclusive and not use "Hollywood" as a synonym so much. -- Netoholic @ 17:53, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
• Neutral first, oppose second. The above comments have sufficiently explained why the second move is a bad idea. I'm neutral on making Hollywood a DAB. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 00:26, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
• I don't understand the proposal. If it means that "Hollywood" should lead the reader to "Cinema of the United States," I FAVOR that (because there are so many articles where that is, or SHOULD BE, the case). Thus editors writing "Hollywood" to mean the neighborhood, well, they must then be sure to type [Hollywood|Hollywood, Los Angeles] as they write or rewrite the article, and there might be a section added to WP:Manual of Style declaring that this must be done. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 02:41, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
• Support first per above. Peter Ormond 💬 06:09, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
• Comment The waters are unclear. "Hollywood" is both a residential neighborhood in Los Angeles and short-hand for the film industry produced in the city. The term "Hollywood" is most commonly used in sources to denote the LA-based film industry, even in an indirect sense, e.g. to films produced and/or shot elsewhere but financed by LA-based companies. It has also come to signify the American established film industry in general. So, first of all, "Hollywood" is not synonymous with U.S. cinema. The very definition of "Cinema of the United States" is erroneous, which explains why it's so inadequately supported by sources in the article. It would actually be an act of nomenclatural hybris to identify American cinema with "Hollywood." Here, a cursory examination of sources brings up American cinema as the overwhelmingly preferred term for cinema produced, made, financed or otherwise created in the States. Therefore, we should start by renaming per the relevant policy the wretchedly titled "Cinema of the United States" and move on to clarify what "Hollywood" means in the context of cinema. -The Gnome (talk) 07:31, 18 March 2022 (UTC)m
• Support “Hollywood” as a Disambiguation page, as it can mean "Hollywood (film industry)"- a euphemism for the entertainment industry, or "Hollywood, Los Angeles" - a neighborhood in Los Angeles, or "Hollywood, Florida " - a city in south Florida. Phatblackmama (talk) 14:09, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
• Support first, move disambiguation page to base title. Plantdrew (talk) 16:01, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 26 March 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. The previous discussion ended a week ago. If you wish to challenge it, WP:MR is the venue. (closed by non-admin page mover) Calidum 01:18, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

---

• Hollywood, Los Angeles → Hollywood
• Hollywood → Hollywood (disambiguation)

– Previous discussion was a major change made with insufficient notice or discussion. The name Hollywood is a shorthand reference for the Los Angeles neighborhood and for the U.S. film industry headquartered there. The change made earlier should be reversed. --evrik ^(talk) — Preceding undated comment added 19:59, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose there was quite clear consensus for the RM which was open for over 11 days to move given as noted there are over 100 other uses. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:08, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
• Support second move only - Hollywood should redirect to Cinema of the United States Red Slash 20:38, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose — there was a pretty clear consensus for this in the above Requested Move discussion. Paintspot Infez (talk) 21:18, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per previous consensus. Mannysoloway (talk) 23:56, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. Previous move was fine. --Coolcaesar (talk) 00:07, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
• Request Procedural Close There's no rationale presented for a move (a move review would be at MRV, but don't bother with that either); this can be closed. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 02:22, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

  There would likely be no grounds for a move review and since this doesn't bring up much more than already mentioned I indeed think we can just speedy close this but I won't do that as I'm involved and 1 editor has suggested Cinema of the United States should be primary but this now looks like SNOW. Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:37, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose and SNOW close. OP's reasoning is flawed - adequate notice was given and participation was ample to gain a consensus. In fact, OP's 2nd sentence rightly points out that "Hollywood" has at least two major meanings, which justifies having the disambiguation page at primary. -- Netoholic @ 04:31, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

First studio

I have removed some sources that were not real sources and corrected the text. I have done something similar at Hollywood. I don't know enough about the subject to know: Was Nestor Film Company really the first studio here? That article itself says it was not. I'm also going to mention this on Talk:Hollywood so everyone will see it. Invasive Spices (talk) 1 October 2022 (UTC)