User talk:BenAveling/Archive2

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RfA thanks

Thank you for participating in my RfA discussion! I appreciate you contributing your voice to the debate and its outcome. I hope how I wield the mop makes you proud. Thanks!

— Saxifrage

Joseph Todaro Sr.

Ben,

I just arrived back in town yesterday, to start I appreciate the support I got from you, Zoe and Alex, I love these other so called experts, writing style can always be improved and I stand behind all my Buffalo-Todaro family information, I think the thousands of Buffalo News articles are a reliable sourc. We have Buffalo crime writers like Lee Coppola that have been writing about the Buffalo Family and the Todaros for 30 years. By the way I still have everything I copied off the Buffalo Mobsite by Supercrack, which covers everything he did. His writing style is very loose and the grammer needs work, but the point is made. There's a ton of information that I never mentioned about the Todaro's because I've never set out to demean or slander anyone, actually I thaught I made Joe Todaro out to be really respectable. I go to La Nova regularly, it's in my old neighbourhood and believe me when I tell you the todaro family do alot for the community, but also trust me when I say that I didn't mention shit. I never mentioned the murders that they've been directly implicated in, not to mention every one in the Buffalo area knows that they controlled one of the largest narcotics rings in Western New York, along the East coast and up to Florida in the 1980's and early 1990's. My father went to the dice and card games in the 1970's and 80's that were held in the Grant St. and Hertal Ave. area and became friends with Jimmy Sicurella, the man accussed of being the shooter in the Cammilleri hit. As far as posting anymore articles or anything a else, let the MAFIA EXPERT handle it, I'm to busy writing a screenplay. Thanks again.

Little Joe Shots

By the way, if your interested in that Buffalo Family info, there's enough for a book, so if you can figure an easy way for me to get it, to you let me know.

Thank you, Creature

Thank you for Megatokyo tip and handsome compliment, Creature. Zilla act like admin always. Not yet have community trust. But not give up! [/me goes off to inflate edit count and apply for Editor Review.] Bishzilla | grrrr! 01:21, 27 January 2007 (UTC).

When did IRC become official?

Hi Fred, IRC may be a great place to find officials and chat them, but since when did IRC become a valid chanel for official business? [1] Regards, Ben Aveling 07:40, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

That was its original purpose. The creation of the channel was the subject of extensive conversations between Jimbo and others. It was to be a place where problems which required action by administrators could be brought to by the office, discussed and acted on. Fred Bauder 16:25, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Some Updates

Hello Ben Aveling, I meant to also leave you a post. First I would just like to say I do stand by the comments I left on Bishonen's talk page. I also think it is very respectable that you have put as much work as you have into this ordeal. I would like to just make a couple more statements for you. I never had a problem with most of Revolver's edits, it was the tactics he used against other editors that made me notice him. An example: I noticed that a banned user (Revolver, yes I had problems with him before but I had nothing to do with his ban) had come back in late December. I did a Check User for what I thought were Sock Puppets. I was then immediately harassed by the editor, 3RRs were slapped on my IP and Talk Page, and a Check User was put up for my account. OK then, all's fair, maybe I'm the vandal...except for the simple check on my User Contributions show I had not made an edit for THREE MONTHS! I stand by my edits. I vicariously edit very little and only what interests me. I expect other editors to stand by what they edit. I'm sure you could. But if someone has to retaliate, at all, against any other editor...you're covering up and hiding something (not to mention being childish). I think the editor in question has a history of doing things he shouldn't and then obfuscates the facts when someone points it out. Here is my question. If everything goes through and the user is allowed to edit again, what should be expected? I guess what I would like to know is will this exempt this person from all wrong doings? If somebody once again brings up an example of vandalism or trolling will the editor simply be able to say "look no problem, here is my proof" and then shows the outline you have worked on? I believe you are accepting a big responsibility by helping him “prove his innocence”. Well I believe you are a very intelligent individual and are attempting to do the right thing, and I respect you for that. I hope you realize what you are doing. Take Care, ShuckyDucky 20:42, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Except that Revolver wasn't blocked and isn't blocked[2]. He's used a number of accounts, but never more than one at a time. [3]

Yes, there has been harassment inappropriate use of warnings amd reverting without trying to find a middle ground. (And not just by Revolver.) If he is unbanned, that doesn't give him a free pass. It doesn't mean that he has been found 'innocent' of all charges. All it means is that people are prepared to give him a chance to show that he can make a positive contribution. If he doesn't do that, he can be blocked again.

I noticed your break. To be honest, it did make me wonder why you chose that moment to return. I ended up deciding it was coincidence. If you and Certified are the same user you do an excellent job of sounding like different people.

If there are any conditions you'd like to put on Revolver, now would be a good time to mention them. And if there is anyone else who has clashed with him, I would appreciate their input also.

Thanks for your message, it's clear that you too are trying to do the best for wikipedia, even if we don't quite agree on what best is.  :-) All the best to you too. Ben Aveling 21:37, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I recalled it was Ragnarok that was banned and not Revolver after I made the post. They are the same user, by admission, right? Do you think the editor would have acted any differently or would not have been banned if he was still using the Revolver account? In other words I can't understand how that is a valid agument, and I think it a bit fallacious to say he should still have priviledges just because his original account was not banned (or is this a convenient loophole?). As far as using more than one account, it just looks like he was trying to get around the original ban, but also it looked like he was using it as cover. Used one for awhile and then switched over to another. This is all from my point of view. It looks like Revolver edits quite a bit and if he tread a bit more lightly I'm sure no one would mind (including me). No I'm not CG, I don't have as much time to be productive on Wikipedia as he does. Thanks for the reply, and take care. ShuckyDucky 02:25, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

5 Whys

Hi. I was going to edit the 5 Whys article, and saw that you recently removed an external link. However, you left another external link in place. I don't understand why you removed one, but not the other. Is there a reason for that? If I was going to remove just one of those links, I probably would have chosen differently. --72.141.21.242 23:45, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

The one I removed looked like original research, and I mistook the one I left for something more official than it actually is. Having had another look, I think I agree with you. I'll switch them over. The Bill Wilson article is worth reading while the one I originally left, isn't. Regards, Ben Aveling 05:26, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

RE:

Please put new discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Real Social Dynamics (2nd nomination), and not open an old archive. Thank you. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 00:42, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Answered on your talk page. Regards, Ben Aveling 07:02, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

No, we only do that for discussions that have not been closed yet. Discussion may be extended if not closed. Once it's closed, even if it's overturned, the proper thing is to set up a new afd. Because the one afd would account for: first arguments closing with delete, overturned and restored, DRV, second afd. It's too much for any admin to close. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 23:52, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for reverting the vandalism on my page. --Nlu (talk) 16:38, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Not a problem. Regards, Ben Aveling 10:49, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Re RFA conversation

Thanks for letting me know, and for your thoughts as well! Seraphimblade 05:59, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Popups

I'm not entirely comfortable with that because I feel that appearing to use rollback while not being an admin can be misleading. Everyking 23:15, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Your message

Ah, I hadn't seen the result. Pity about Pickup101, though... --Mel Etitis (Talk) 23:36, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. The argument seems to have gotten stuck on sources, when notability (lack of) was the real issue. Let me know if it comes up on AFD or DRV again and I'll put an oar in. Regards, Ben Aveling 23:45, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I've decrufted it, but it still looks like a speedy. That and Seduction community. And The game. And everyone in Template:Notable Members of The Seduction Community. There's probably just enough notability for one page on the whole lot of them, and they've created pages and pages of crap. It all reminds me of the old joke: what does Lance Mason use for contraception? His personality. Regards, Ben Aveling 00:02, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Pauline Hanson

Why not mention the specifics of her racial makeup? Maybe not as a separate paragraph tho. I suspect that this information may become de-regeur in bios? It's relevant tho in Hanson's case as so much of her platform and policies have been race based.

--PeterMarkSmith 04:01, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Still?

Still posting nonsense? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sand Squid (talk • contribs)

Could be. It happens. Can you be more specific? Ben Aveling 07:02, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

User:Guardian Tiger

Hey what up Ben? I notice there's a lot of "interactions" between you and Guardian Tiger's new sock on his talkpage. I think it's extremely wrong to react the way User:Guardian Tiger did when his account was blocked indef. and unblock requests were turn down twice (which caused talkpage protection). As far as I'm concerned, the optimal way to respond to a perma. ban is definitely NOT create more socks while continue to maintain the original block was unjustified. A similar case was User:PoolGuy whose sockpuppets # over 50. It could be interpreted as a violation of WP:POINT and WP:DICK. The new sock talkpage also shouldn't be a discussion forum to obtain an unblock. The only channel of communication he should have is through the talkpage of User talk:Guardian Tiger or through the e-mail function. Thank you! By the way, I also notice that you accused me of being a sock of ShuckyDucky. One thing I will never do is creating socks. Hopefully, you will apologize for your wrong judgment. Peace out--Certified.Gangsta 04:33, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi Certified, I believe I have already apologised to Shucky for having wondered if he and you might be connected. And unless memory fails me, that was the only time I discussed the issue online? But if I have raised it elsewhere, then of course I apologise to him for doing so. Anyway, why do you think that Apocolyptic should use Tiger's page? Surely he should use the page for his current active account? Or failing that, Revolver Ocelot X? Not that Revolver Ocelot X is blocked. Cheers, Ben Aveling 10:48, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

The issue here is that Apocolyptic is a new sock of Guardian after Guardian is perma. blocked, so obviously it should be perma. blocked as well (which it already has) but when considering uplifting the perma. blocked, the only channel should be User:Guardian Tiger and since the talkpage for that account is protected that means the community is telling him to shut up like Jason Gastrich, PoolGuy, Cute 1 4 U, and the list goes on. These above troublemakers all went ahead to create more socks and continue to maintain the original block was unjustified while disregarding the fact that their block was by consensus of the community. Now, why should Guardian Tiger be any different? My suggestion is for him to stop using his new sock right now (hopefully an admin would protect the talkpage) since it is clearly setting a bad example for future sockpuppeters. (when you're talkpage is protected, get a sock to start a new discussion forum) Such practice is unacceptable. His only channel is to set up an e-mail for Guardian Tiger and communicate through the e-mail function. And lastly, I found the sockpuppet accusation against me personally offensive, so I will appreciate if you apologize to me (of course he didn't take that so seriously). Cheers--Certified.Gangsta 00:48, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Let me try to understand what you're saying. He has one account that he has stopped using, and apparently, cannot use. And you are saying that because of this, he loses his right to appeal? Ben Aveling 01:13, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

He alrady appea,ed twice on the guardian account before the talkpage got protected. Creating more socks isn't a constructive way around it. Btw I'm still waiting for an apology from you. cheers--Certified.Gangsta 02:05, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I guess you'd prefer that he just stops editing wikipedia, fair enough. A lot of us feel that way about certain other people. But if I'm wrong and you have a constructive suggestion for what he should do, feel free to make it. If you want an apology, then you're going to have to be specific about what untruth I've spoken about you because I'm not aware of any. In particular, I have not, to my recall, accused you of sockpuppeting. Are you suggesting that I should apologise for even having considered the possibility? Regards, Ben Aveling 06:17, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I do find it a lil offensive but it's cool. No need to get upset or stress about it. As for Guardian, let's not worry about him since he appears to have quit editing, but I've seen him come back before. But yeah, it's not really my priority right now, the joke banner stuff is killing me. Cheers--Certified.Gangsta 06:25, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Then go Zen. Move on. Let it go. If he does come back, I'm sure he'll avoid you or he's got less sense than I give him credit for. And the banner is just a joke, and neither a funny nor an original one. I agree, you should have the right to put it on your page, except for the bot issue, but I don't see it as a right worth fighting for. So my advice is to let that go too. Cheers, Ben Aveling

RfA question

Honestly, I had trouble understanding what the question was getting at. I don't really know what you mean by all the references to mines and minefields. Maybe if you put it in very clear terms without any kind of analogies I could answer it. Everyking 13:02, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

New seduction community template

In light of the recent nomination of Template:Notable Members of The Seduction Community, I've began work on a new, broader template in my namespace (here). The intention is that it is placed at the bottom of the page. — Sasuke Sarutobi 16:57, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

rfa thanks

Thanks for the support on my RFA. It passed successfully with just under WP:100 supports and 1 oppose. I look forward to serving the community as an admin. ⇒ SWATJester ^{On Belay!} 18:00, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

AFD 2006 Victorian election campaign

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2006 Victorian election campaign. Grumpyyoungman01 04:16, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Fake banner to trick people who might have been improving the encyclopedia

Thanks, Ben. Hope you like your new banner. Bishonen | talk 23:40, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

I do, though I've given it a tickle. Regards, Ben Aveling 06:33, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Re : I noticed

Thanks for the barnstar, I greatly appreciate it! =) - Cheers, Mailer Diablo 06:26, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

My pleasure. It's too easy to take people's contributions for granted - it's good to notice people doing good things. Thanks again. Ben Aveling 06:29, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Preview of references

You can actually preview references. If you have used the standard reference notation (ie, <ref> & </ref> you just type in {{reflist}} at the bottom of your section edit while you preview. It should then appear in the preview as it will appear at the bottom. Do not of course forget to remove it when you actually press 'Save page'. (by the way, the courier mail ref did not use that code - but I've just changed it). Any questions, just ask. --Merbabu 10:41, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Cool! It works nicely, thanks. Article is looking better for your changes too. Cheers, Ben Aveling 11:14, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Indo/Oz Prisoner Exchange Program

Wow - and I thought my purge was drastic. lol Merbabu 12:56, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

:-) I suspect the topic is notable. I figured that by deleting everything not on-topic, we might get a reasonable stub out of it. But I'll let other people decide that one way or another. Cheers, Ben Aveling 13:14, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/LSLM

Considering your edit [4], you may want to comment on his RfC. Lukas19 13:46, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I've watchlisted it. I might comment later. Thanks, Ben Aveling 21:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Michael's PA on Sarah

Hi Blnguyen. You said that you unblocked Michael by consensus. Can I ask where this consensus to override Sarah was reached? Sorry to be a pain. Regards, Ben Aveling 10:20, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, myself and Daniel Bryant sent emails to Sarah as well as the other guys on that talk page. I waited overnight Australian time to see if she was away or not, and I thought that she was away, by not replying, so I unblocked Michael because I thought there was a consensus that the removing the block might be the best way of moving on. I do not mean it to be a condoning of Michael's comments, or that I felt that Sarah to be a bad administrator or that the block was improper. I'm saddened to see that my actions have only flamed the discontent. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:36, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Bold revert discuss

Hi! I saw your comment on the misc for deletion page, and have replied.

I think you missed the point of the concept on first reading... which could possibly be my fault, since I've been doing a bit of the typing on that page, I suppose.

Throw out any idealism, elegance, or thoughts of singing kumbaya. Write down what works, all of what works, and nothing but what works. That's my idea of what a descriptive guideline should be. :-)

WP:BRD is such a descriptive guideline. People have basically just written down what they've learned over time. You could disagree with parts of it because you know better ways to do that task, in that case {{sofixit}}. You could grimace in distaste, because some parts aren't pretty. But in the end, it just simply works.

The idea is simple. Some pages rust and become immovable over time. For example: Front pages of wikis, certain policies, controversial topics, and pages where there is apparent WP:OWNership, or other (to some degree) pathological situations.

By

• Cutting down the number of interactions by finding exactly those people who have issues with your change (and no others); and
• Splitting the problem up into manageable sub-steps;

a single (well practiced) editor can manage to bring people together and solve the situation.

--Kim Bruning 04:42, 25 February 2007 (UTC)