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John Philip Shenale

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Created originally by a sock puppet, there is no evidence of passing WP:NCREATIVE, I can find no in-depth significant coverage of him in any sources and notability cannot be established by osmosis/working with notable people. Theroadislong (talk) 17:41, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Music. Theroadislong (talk) 17:41, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete brief mentions of various musical compositions he's made but nothing about him. Oaktree b (talk) 17:44, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:41, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am the one who is to blame for all this mess so please listen to me before you remove the page. I had tried to add some edits a couple days ago. The edits have been removed. I am not talking about that right now. I respect those reasons and that's why I haven't tried to edit anything else. I am a different person to the one who originally created the first article and you are naming him/her a "sock puppet" probably because you think that I am a "sock puppet". We are 2 different persons.

John Phillip Shenale has a music career expanding over many decades with colaborations from well know musicals such as footloose, little shop of horors up to the soundtrack of sons of anarchy which was not only succesful for its plot as a TV series but for its soundtrack as well. (He is a prominent member of the band called The Forest Rangers which is behind all those succesful covers along with the actress/singer Katey Sagal)

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0791501/

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1124373/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

https://whatculture.com/tv/sons-of-anarchy-10-best-forest-rangers-songs

His work has been associated with 22 Grammy nominations throughout the years.

He has been a major collaborator for decades with the singer/composer Tori Amos who mentions his work in her music often in her interviews. eg from a recent interview

https://glidemagazine.com/266058/tori-amos-delivers-lithest-set-of-songs-in-decades-via-candid-ocean-to-oceanalbum-review/

https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/tori-amos-gets-into-holiday-spirit-for-midwinter-graces-267346/

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/night-hunters-tori-amos-classical-131157639.html

https://exclaim.ca/music/article/tori_amos-strange_little_girl

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/tori-amos-performs-with-string-quartet-in-manhattan-248480/

https://glidemagazine.com/19577/john-philip-shenale-in-conversation-part-i/

https://glidemagazine.com/19595/john-philip-shenale-in-conversation-part-ii/

He has worked for numerous gold and platinum albums in US such as everything and eternal flame by bangles, bathhouse betty with bette middler, belind/belinda carlisle, footlose (8 times platinum), streets of fire etc (there are many more gold and platinum albums, I can't put the full list here)

generally reliable sources https://www.allmusic.com/artist/john-philip-shenale-mn0000815023/credits

https://www.discogs.com/artist/267205-John-Philip-Shenale

I could provide you with more links to interviews and web sites but I think someone can get the picture from the things mentioned above.

I mentioned all the above in good faith, hoping that there is a will to do what's right and that you wanted some help because you think that Ratfae (talk) 13:13, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(I posted the previous texr before completing the sentence by accident)

... JPS doesn't meet the notability criteria.

(his name is often typed wrong even in wikipedia eg it was typed wrongfully here at the Forrest rangers page (I didn't write that either) and I had to correct it so that it can connecti with his page. This may be the main reason why a lot of credits and refferences don't show up with a simple google search.)

Thank you for all your time and patience reading this. Ratfae (talk) 13:19, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid that being "associated with 22 Grammy nominations" is not a notability criteria and IMDb and interviews are not reliable independent sources as you have been told before. Theroadislong (talk) 13:26, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I will search more your criteria on reliable independent sources and I will post the ones that meet that criteria here.

I mentioned those because I have seen those many times as references at numerous web pages.

I could name the grammy nominations 1 by 1 with links from the nominations but it wasn't my point to fload the page here. If you want that, I can search for an official grammy list of nominations throughout the years even though most of those albums already exist on wikipedia pages. Ratfae (talk) 13:57, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

JPS is a band member of The Forest Rangers The Forest Rangers (band) I have no connection with the person who created the page. I corrected JPS' name in order to connect it with his wiki page and added links for the wiki pages of their albums which already existed.

I will add some more references here since I noticed that they are needed.

The band crowdfunded the debut album

‘Sons of Anarchy’ Band The Forest Rangers Crowdfunding Debut Album

https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/sons-of-anarchy-forest-rangers-crowdfunding-debut-6221883/

(JPS wrongly named PS)

Land Ho (Album)

https://www.discogs.com/master/992469-The-Forest-Rangers-Land-Ho

https://www.discogs.com/release/7218037-The-Forest-Rangers-Land-Ho

(the credit for JPS is wrongly stated as PS)

https://www.billboard.com/music/rock/sons-of-anarchy-land-ho-bob-thiele-jr-the-forest-rangers-album-premiere-6620143/

https://exclaim.ca/music/article/bob_thiele_forest_rangers-trying_to_belive_ft_alison_mossheart_video

Sons of Anarchy Soundtrack

The Forest Rangers - Theme Song https://archive.org/details/tvtunes_4206

The Forest Rangers - Ending - Theme Song https://archive.org/details/tvtunes_4207

Songs of anarchy – sons of anarchy Season 1-4

https://rateyourmusic.com/search?searchterm=songs%20of%20anarchy&searchtype=

https://www.allmusic.com/album/songs-of-anarchy-music-from-sons-of-anarchy-seasons-1-4-original-tv-soundtrack--mw0002266604/credits

(JPS is wrongly mentioned as PS)

https://archive.org/details/cd_songs-of-anarchy-music-from-sons-of-anarch_various-artists-alison-mosshart-the-fores

Vol 2 https://www.allmusic.com/album/sons-of-anarchy-songs-of-anarchy-vol-2-mw0002447659/credits

https://archive.org/details/cd_songs-of-anarchy-volume-2_various-artists-alison-mosshart-audra-mae

Vol 3 https://www.discogs.com/master/1597478-Various-Sons-Of-Anarchy-Songs-Of-Anarchy-Vol-3

https://archive.org/details/cd_songs-of-anarchy-vol.-3-music-from-sons-of_various-artists

Vol 4 https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/the_forest_rangers

https://www.allmusic.com/album/sons-of-anarchy-songs-of-anarchy-vol-4-original-tv-soundtrack--mw0002801535/credits

https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/sons-of-anarchy-final-season-new-songs-exclusive-6243999/

https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/sons-of-anarchy-to-end-with-big-musical-bang-giant-sync-for-final-season-6229041/

https://archive.org/details/cd_songs-of-anarchy-vol.-4_various-artists-amos-lee-the-forest-range

“Come join the murder” The White Buffalo and The Forest Rangers

https://www.billboard.com/pro/sons-of-anarchy-white-buffalo-come-join-the-murder/

Curtis Stigers & The Forest Rangers – Travelin' Band

https://www.discogs.com/release/15000075-Curtis-Stigers-The-Forest-Rangers-Travelin-Band

“The Forrest Rangers” band changed the name to “The Reluctant Apostles” for some time before going back to “The Forrest Rangers”

https://popculture.com/lifestyle/news/sons-of-anarchy-kurt-sutter-shares-music-video-featuring-katey-s/

(JPS is wrongly named as PS)

https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/tn-wknd-et-0122-katey-sagal-20170121-story.html

https://usrockermusic.com/2019/03/14/katey-sagal-and-the-reluctant-apostles-to-bring-anarchy-to-the-mint-may-1-and-may-2/

http://www.theycallmedaymz.com/tag/katey-sagal-and-the-reluctant-apostles/

I tried to do a research bases on the reliable scources that are proposed for parts of JPS' work

here comes a list with some links

Tori Amos

The light Princess by Tori Amos at National Theatre, London, UK

orchestrations John Philip Shenale

https://www.nationaltheatre.org.uk/sites/default/files/lightprincess_backgroundpack_final.pdf

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/10319881/Behind-the-scenes-of-The-Light-Princess-a-musical-by-Tori-Amos.html

https://theartsdesk.com/theatre/light-princess-national-theatre

https://playbill.com/article/tori-amos-and-samuel-adamsons-the-light-princess-opens-at-londons-national-theatre-oct-9-com-210341

Gold Dust https://americansongwriter.com/tori-amos-gold-dust/

https://consequence.net/2012/06/tori-amos-announces-new-album-gold-dust/

Tori Amos Gets Into Holiday Spirit For ‘Midwinter Graces’ https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/tori-amos-gets-into-holiday-spirit-for-midwinter-graces-267346

https://consequence.net/2009/09/tori-amos-details-holiday-album-midwinter-graces/

Tori Amos Night of Hunters https://recordcollectormag.com/reviews/album/night-of-hunters

Mentioned in interviews for his work with other artists

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/tori-amos-performs-with-string-quartet-in-manhattan-248480/

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/sons-of-anarchy-take-on-i-see-through-you-song-premiere-101212/

https://www.mixonline.com/recording/music-production/x-marks-the-spot-for-audio-pros

https://www.mixonline.com/recording/profiles/michael-marquart-rejuvenated

https://www.mixonline.com/recording/thinking-big-with-a-bad-think

https://thequietus.com/articles/10228-tori-amos-we-held-gold-dust-in-our-hands

https://www.toriamosdiscography.info/promotional-music_other_category.html

http://www.polarimagazine.com/musicreviews/tori-amos-gold-dust-review/

https://imposemagazine.com/bytes/kris-kelly-we-flew

https://recordcollectormag.com/articles/sympathy-for-the-deville

https://www.frontview-magazine.be/en/news/addie-brik-announces-new-album-that-dog-dont-hunt-out-25-november

https://palettemusic.com/project/tim-weisberg-time-traveler/

https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/161635

Girls on Film: An Interview with Tori Amos https://americansongwriter.com/girls-on-film-an-interview-with-tori-amos

https://toriamos.com/story/

Some links for his work on films

soundtracks

footloose

Holding out for a hero

https://musicbrainz.org/release/d5c2920d-5dc5-4229-affa-35881ac3b09b

little shop of horrors

https://musicbrainz.org/release/d5c2920d-5dc5-4229-affa-35881ac3b09b

Return of the living dead

https://www.allmusic.com/album/return-of-the-living-dead-3-mw0001007530

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - Coming Out of Their Shells https://archive.org/details/tmnt-cooos

Sympathy for the DeVille https://recordcollectormag.com/articles/sympathy-for-the-deville

Thank you for your patience and I apologize for the long list.

(There are way more references I tried to keep both lists as short as possible. I can offer more links based on the list of reliable sources if you wish.) Ratfae (talk) 08:53, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Quality is perhaps more important than quantity. Which are the three (WP:THREE) most reliable sources that give significant independant coverage of the subject (i.e. not user generated and not passing mentions)? And/or how does this article meet WP:NMUSIC? -Kj cheetham (talk) 19:18, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am still trying to figure this out so be patient with me. If I had to pick 3 sources from the list above and leave all the rest those would probably be billboard, rollingstones magazine and LA Times as the ones which are more recognizable than the rest but on the other hand there are the credits for globaly known hits such us holding out for a hero. Each part has its own merit so I am a bit confused. (I did check the list of the reliable sources. I haven't checked all of them still though.) Ratfae (talk) 23:20, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sources have to in-depth with sigificant coverage The Rolling Stone pieces contain a single sentence each! Theroadislong (talk) 00:48, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Ratfae, I think you've made your point. Please take a step back and let others weigh in.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Joe (talk) 05:04, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

ok (Redacted) 07:44, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

ok (the previous comment was mine but I hadn't logged in) Ratfae (talk) 07:45, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The man has a remarkable resume, certainly more remarkable than a lot of lesser lights whose biographies appear in Wikipedia. Chisme (talk) 22:09, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
certainly more remarkable than a lot of lesser lights whose biographies appear in Wikipedia- this seems to be WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. VickKiang (talk) 22:31, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. It would help if some editors looked into a few of the many sources mentioned here to determine if they help establish GNG.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, this article has over 70 sources, that is very impressive. Davidgoodheart (talk) 22:31, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 130: / Line 130: @@
 *:{{tq|certainly more remarkable than a lot of lesser lights whose biographies appear in Wikipedia}}- this seems to be [[WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS]]. '''[[User:VickKiang|<span style="background:#FFFFFF; color:blue; padlue 2px 2px 2px;">VickKiang</span>]]''' [[User talk:VickKiang|<span style="background:#FFFFFF; color:light blue; padlue 2px 2px 2px;">(talk)</span>]] 22:31, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
 :<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />'''Relisting comment:''' Relisting. It would help if some editors looked into a few of the many sources mentioned here to determine if they help establish GNG.<br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 04:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --><noinclude>[[Category:Relisted AfD debates|John Philip Shenale]]</noinclude></p>
-*'''Keep''' , this article has over 70 sources that is very impressive. [[User:Davidgoodheart]][[User:Davidgoodheart|Davidgoodheart]] ([[User talk:Davidgoodheart|talk]]) 22:31, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
+*'''Keep''', this article has over 70 sources, that is very impressive. [[User:Davidgoodheart|Davidgoodheart]] ([[User talk:Davidgoodheart|talk]]) 22:31, 20 December 2022 (UTC)