Talk:America's Cup

An event mentioned in this article is a August 22 selected anniversary.

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Clarification of the Name of the Cup

The original name of the Cup has been a contentious issue in the article. Because I'm tired of correcting and re-correcting, allow me to share with you the story behind the name of the Cup. Thank you for your patience! :)

At a Royal Yacht Squadron meeting on May 9, 1851, it was decided, among other things, to have a race around the Isle of Wight open to all nations--the prize being a 'RYS Cup of' 100 sovereigns. 100 sovereigns is equal to 100 pounds sterling. The RYS minutes of May 9 and July 11, 1851 refer to the cup as the 'RYS Cup' or 'RYS Cup of' 100 sovereigns. In addition to the minutes, a flyer that announced the regatta also refers to the cup as the 'RYS Cup of' 100 sovereigns. I have not discovered any evidence that supports the claim that the Cup was originally called the one hundred guinea(s) cup by the Royal Yacht Squadron.

After the yacht 'America' won the trophy, the American winners dubbed their prize the 'One Hundred Guinea(s) Cup' for reasons unknown. Incidently, 100 guineas is worth about 105 pounds. The name 'One Hundred Guinea(s) Cup' persisted. In fact, on the very trophy itself, an inscription made by the Americans refers to the trophy as the: 'one hundred guinea cup' won by the 'America' in 1851 being offered as a 'challenge cup'.

The Cup was subsquently known simulteneously as the 'America Cup', or the 'Queens Cup', the 'hundred guinea cup', and, of course, the America's Cup. Today the Cup is officially called the 'America's Cup' without italicizing the name of the schooner.

--AmerCupFan August 6, 2006.

Too much detail?

I guess we are getting a little unencyclopaedic reporting on each race of the current series. Would experienced Wikipedians care to comment on the best direction to take this article? - sub articles on each series? - an article under current affairs on the 2003 series? user:dramatic

Bond characterization

Dishonest? Was Bond's dishonesty related to the Cup racing - no, hence I don't think it is relavant here. It would be like adding the adjective "Libertine" in front of Bill Clinton's name in an article about his administration's foreign policy. The place to mention Bond's dishonesty would be an article on Bond.

Yes, it was related. America's Cup racing has been described as "standing in a cold shower tearing up $100 notes". Bond spent a substantial amount - many million - to win the cup, and the money was dishonestly aquired. Not opinion: he wound up in jail for several years, and would still be there had his lawyers not got him out on a technicality. See [1] Tannin 22:11 Feb 17, 2003 (UTC)

New Zealanders

"Alinghi alone had 4 New Zealanders as crew"

I thought it was 6, Coutts inclusive.

There were 8 in total on the team, not sure about the actual crew. Dramatic 01:44 Mar 13, 2003 (UTC)

Links of boat names

It seems odd to me to have the boat names linked to the topic that has that same name. There is one broken link that has (yacht) after the name, but all the others are either broken or linked to something that has very little if anything to do with the boat. I think that the boat names should be unlinked. nroose Talk 12:48, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I'll do this myself if nobody takes it upon themselves soon. Adding to watchlist and tasks to do. Avriette 05:29, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

To Be Added (moved from main page)

(Much more to cover yet)

• Rules
• TV Coverage
• One World's member's possession of Team New Zealand design secrets
• Bias favouring the Defender.
• Lifting the Skirts ceremony
• Controversy in the 2003 America's Cup, with professionally written death threats to defecting sailors, terrorist cyanide threats, Team NZ hiring private investigators to investigate whether Alinghi was using drugs, Alinghi syndicate being fined $10,000 by police for invading practice zones and intimidating/physically ramming Team NZ boats while TNZ was practicing

I moved this stuff from the main page nroose Talk 06:34, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Deed of Gift

I added the info about the Deed of Gift and the Deed itself so I removed the "Trust Deed" from the list above. --America's Cup History Fan 01:23, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I think the deed belongs on Wikisource, with a link from here, but I'm not experienced in moving things there. dramatic 08:49, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Images

I hope the images I am adding to this article and other related yachting articles are OK. I have specific permission from the photographer for use in Wikipedia. Note that I had a very tough time finding good images some of these items (specifically of 1988 Stars & Stripes), and he had some excellent ones that he had taken. -Joseph (Talk) 04:23, 2004 Oct 7 (UTC)

The cup's size

I remember reading somewhere that the cup is so large due to a miscommunication of the units as imperial when they were metric. Can anyone confirm this and, if true, write it in? porge 12:27, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)

Seems unlikely, given that the Cup was made in England in the nineteenth century and neither England or America used the metric system back then. Lisiate 22:31, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

i think that the confusion between metric/imperial realtes to one of the international rugyby trophies could be bledisloe cup, tri-nations or world cup not entirely sure on it though

History/previous challenges

The early races were held in New York. Can anyone find which races were NY before moving to Newport, RI?

We also need someone with references to do fact checking, add references. - Amgine 21:47, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The matrix of the challengers and defenders as of August 6, 2006 is correct. After the 1920 match, the match was moved to Newport, Rhode Island. --AmerCupFan

Sir Peter Blake

Was it not the late Sir Peter Blake who skippered Team New Zealand to victory in 1995 in San Diego? Not the traiterous Russel Coutts.

Coutts skippered every race of the '95 challenge. But Blake was aboard for each race as well.

Lists of yachts involved

Given the increasing size of the article (a good thing, don't get me wrong), should we move the length challenger/defender list to a separate page, say List of America's Cup contestants? Also, we could have a List of American's Cup defender contestants and List of American's Cup challenger contestants (which is a bit better than the semi-anachronistic List of Luis Vuitton Cup contestants), to cover all the yachts which competed in any given year, but didn't feature in the main matchup. Or perhaps they could all go in one page, separated into sections? Noel (talk) 15:18, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Ditto for the 2003 and 2007 events; the details would be best handled in separate articles, with only summaries here. Noel (talk) 03:22, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Oldest active international trophy?

Is it really the oldest international "trophy" available. It predates the FA cup? Is the FA cup an international trophy. If that qualifies why not the Grand National horse race? 68.71.35.93 03:09, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

According to the FA Cup article, the it was first awarded in 1872, while the America's Cup was awarded first in 1851. The Grand National article states that it was first contested in 1836, but it may not have had the same trophy like the FA Cup and the AC have. --rogerd 05:06, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

What about one of the events at Henley Royal Regatta? The regatta started in 1839 and the Grand was contested that year and any amateur club can enter (http://www.hrr.co.uk/history/trophies.asp). It has been won by international crews 43 times so it is definitely an international trophy.

The FA Cup in use now is the third trophy... the first and the second were stolen... The oldest international sporting event is the Real Tennis world championship, first held in 1740. excuse my very bad English 84.99.239.149 00:19, 20 August 2006 (UTC) from WP.fr

Apostrophe!

Surely the apostrophe does not belong? Surely?

That apostrophe means possession. This means that it is America's Cup; the cup belongs to America. Firstly, it doesn't, and secondly this surely isn't how it's meant to read? It's meant to concern The Americas, as in North and South America, isn't it? And you don't need an apostrophe for that. It should be The Americas Cup shouldn't it? 81.153.182.67 17:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

If you would take the trouble to read the first paragraph, you would know that the trophy is named for the schooner America, the boat that won the first race. So when they say "America's Cup", they are not referring to the country or the continent, but the schooner America. --rogerd 19:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

The apostrophe definitely belongs. The America's Cup is called such because it was the cup won by the yacht 'America' in 1851. --AmerCupFan

IACC split

Currently, International Americas Cup Class redirects here. The class should have its own article, similar to the J-class yacht or 12-metre class articles. There have been IACC reggatas that are separate from the AC. --rogerd 16:39, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Dear rogerd, Sorry about the delay. Have not been on Wikipedia for several weeks. I agree with you. A stand-alone article about IACC yachts should be created. AmerCupFan

Done. All of you AC fans please review and correct, add to, or whatever. Especially info about the IACC worlds. --rogerd 23:05, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Louis Vutton Cup

According to the intro

In 1995 as a response to multiple challengers and questions as to how the next challenger would be selected, the Louis Vuitton Cup was created as a fair way to determine who will become the official challenger of the America's Cup.

This doesn't agree with info later on in the article or in the LV Cup article. From memory, something did occur in 1995 in relation to the LV Cup but I'm not sure what Nil Einne 19:07, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

The Louis Vuitton Cup was first awarded to the winner of the challenger selection series in 1983. The multiple challenger format was inaugurated for the 1970 match. AmerCupFan.

I remember when the LV Cup name came into being but I am wondering whether, in the period after 1983, but before New Zealand's wins if there was a name for a cup in the competition for the defender of the America's Cup. This would have been when the US was fielding four or five yachts to compete against each other. I thought I remembered a specific name for the series when the race was held of the coast of San Diego, but my memory plays so many tricks anymore that I could be wrong. Thanks ahead of time to any wikimembers who can help.MarnetteD | Talk 19:16, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Louis Vutton Cup for AC 2007

According to the article, the team with the highest score at the end of the acts wins the Louis Vutton Cup and is declared the challenger. But it appears Alinghi is also taking part in the acts. So what happens if they have the most points? Nil Einne 19:10, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi Nil Einne. I think that Alinghi is competing so that they avoid the troubles that New Zealand had in the last AC regatta. Through their glory years of the 90's the NZ team had pretty much stayed together in the important competitions. But with the Alighi's team raid of some of the best of the NZ team members one of the downfalls of team NZ was that they just didn't have enough competitive races under their belt when the last AC got down to two teams. In the 70's and 80's when America held the cup there were usually four or more boats sailing against each other in a defender's regatta before the AC finals got going. NZ's first defense did not have this but, as I said, the bulk of their championship team were still together. In their second defense of the cup they simply had their two yachts competing against each other, as they had done before, near the same courses where the the LV cup was being contested. In the upcoming AC Switzerland, ie Alinghi, only has one yacht sailing so I think that they are trying to keep their crew (which has had some important personel changes from their winning team) up to competitive snuff by racing in these acts. Whether this gives them an advantage or not remains to be seen. Of course, I could be wrong and if some other sailing wikimember can straighten us out it will be much appreciated.MarnetteD | Talk 19:16, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Frequency

I might have missed it but nowhere in the article did I notice a mention of the frequency of the race. Is it held every 4 years such as the World Cup or the Olympics or is it not as structured as that? A sentence or two on this would be appreciated. Sparky132 20:23, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

• It's not as structured as that. In the old days it basically happened when a new challenger emerged. Since the 1980s there has been an attempt to make things more regular, but the Big Boat challenge and later the New Zealand victory threw things out of whack (different seasons and all). It's hard to summarise accurately and concisely but I'm sure someone will add a more detailed explanation soon. Lisiate 21:21, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Sections / Seperate articles on 2007 teams? Seperate article for 2007?

I notice that the article does not have much information regarding the current America's Cup - should a new article perhaps be created which give more information regarding the current competition? On top of that would more information about each team be a good idea? Personally I can contribute a lot regarding Team Shosholoza (Many of the team members are members of yacht club I am a member of and I often visit / can easily get information from Royal Cape Yacht Club).

I was thinking something along the lines of what the Rugby World Cup article has [2] --kilps 19:51, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I for one think that's a good idea. Lisiate 21:29, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I have began work on this with the Team Shosholoza article and I have added a list of teams competing in the 2007 cup (please could those who know about different teams work on their respective articles - I will continue to work on the Shosholoza one), perhaps a separate article will become necessary for 2007 but I think for now we need to build up the section --kilps 20:49, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

error

Michael Fay had nothing to do with the 1995 winning challenge for the America's Cup. by this stage he had left NZ and I think was living in the UK>

That challenge was led by Sir Peter Blake, representing Royal NZ Yacht Squadron. All of Fay's challenges were from some other club, Mercury Bay I think it was.