User talk:RL0919: Difference between revisions

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Welcome to RL0919's talk page. I will generally respond here to comments that are posted here, rather than replying via your talk page (or the article's talk page, if you are writing to me here about an article), so you may want to watch this page until you are responded to, or let me know where specifically you'd prefer the reply.

Ye olde talk scrolls

Administrators' newsletter – October 2022

News and updates for administrators from the past month (September 2022).

Administrator changes

ScottishFinnishRadish

Staxringold

Ahoerstemeier (deceased) • Ched

Interface administrator changes

Cyberpower678

CheckUser changes

GorillaWarfare

Guideline and policy news

Following an RfC, consensus was found that if the rationale for a block depends on information that is not available to all administrators, that information should be sent to the Arbitration Committee, a checkuser or an oversighter for action (as applicable, per ArbCom's recent updated guidance) instead of the administrator making the block.
Following an RfC, consensus has been found that, in the context of politics and science, the reliability of FoxNews.com is unclear and that additional considerations apply to its use.
Community comment on the revised Universal Code of Conduct enforcement guidelines is requested until 8 October.

Technical news

The Articles for creation helper script now automatically recognises administrator accounts which means your name does not need to be listed at WP:AFCP to help out. If you wish to help out at AFC, enable AFCH by navigating to Preferences → Gadgets and checking the "Yet Another AfC Helper Script" box.

Arbitration

Remedy 8.1 of the Muhammad images case will be rescinded 1 November following a motion.
A modification to the deletion RfC remedy in the Conduct in deletion-related editing case has been made to reaffirm the independence of the RfC and allow the moderators to split the RfC in two.
The second phase of the 2021-22 Discretionary Sanctions Review closes 3 October.

Miscellaneous

An administrator's account was recently compromised. Administrators are encouraged to check that their passwords are secure, and reminded that ArbCom reserves the right to not restore adminship in cases of poor account security. You can also use two-factor authentication (2FA) to provide an extra level of security.
Self-nominations for the electoral commission for the 2022 Arbitration Committee elections open 2 October and close 8 October.
You are invited to comment on candidates in the 2022 CUOS appointments process.
An RfC is open to discuss whether to make Vector 2022 the default skin on desktop.
Tech tip: You can do a fuzzy search of all deleted page titles at Special:Undelete.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:43, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

AFDs

Hello, RL0919,

I just wanted to say that I appreciate you offering a closure rationale when you close AFDs, whether they are contentious or there are just mixed opinions on an article's fate. Most admins closing AFDs just provide the outcome (me included) and while that's fine when the opinions are unanimous or one-sided towards Keeping or Deleting an article, it's very helpful to read how a closer came to their final decision.

I often go back to AFDs that I passed on closing to see how another admin decided to close a complicated or divided discussion and I usually learn something from reading your decisions. I still consider myself relatively new to the AFD world so thank you for sharing your thought process when weighing conflicting opinions on what should happen to an article. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:52, 26 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I second those comments. Thorough rationales are much appreciated. Throast ^{{{ping}} me!} (talk | contribs) 16:22, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thirded. I just read your summary on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/December 15, 2022 Twitter suspensions and it was fantastic. Thanks for being a model for good behavior. Fogsparrow (talk) 02:34, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – November 2022

News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2022).

Administrator changes

- Isabelle Belato
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Interface administrator changes

CheckUser changes

Oversight changes

DGG

Guideline and policy news

The article creation at scale RfC opened on 3 October and will be open until at least 2 November.
An RfC is open to discuss having open requests for adminship automatically placed on hold after the seven-day period has elapsed, pending closure or other action by a bureaucrat.

Arbitration

Eligible editors are invited to self-nominate themselves from 13 November 2022 until 22 November 2022 to stand in the 2022 Arbitration Committee elections.
The arbitration case request titled Athaenara has been resolved by motion.
The arbitration case Reversal and reinstatement of Athaenara's block has entered the proposed decision stage.
AmandaNP, Mz7 and Cyberpower678 have been appointed to the Electoral Commission for the 2022 Arbitration Committee Elections. Xaosflux and Dr vulpes are reserve commissioners.

Miscellaneous

The 2022 CheckUser and Oversight appointments process has concluded with the appointment of two new CheckUsers.
You can add yourself to the centralised page listing time zones of administrators.
Tech tip: Wikimarkup in a block summary is parsed in the notice that the blockee sees. You can use templates with custom options to specify situations like {{rangeblock|create=yes}} or {{uw-ublock|contains profanity}}.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:23, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

ArbCom 2022 Elections voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2022 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 12 December 2022. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

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Administrators' newsletter – December 2022

News and updates for administrators from the past month (November 2022).

Administrator changes

Interface administrator changes

TheresNoTime

CheckUser changes

TheresNoTime

Oversight changes

TheresNoTime

Guideline and policy news

Consensus has been found in an RfC to automatically place RfAs on hold after one week.
The article creation at scale RfC has been closed.
An RfC on the banners for the December 2022 fundraising campaign has been closed.

Technical news

A new preference named "Enable limited width mode" has been added to the Vector 2022 skin. The preference is also shown as a toggle on every page if your monitor is 1600 pixels or wider. When disabled it removes the whitespace added by Vector 2022 on the left and right of the page content. Disabling this preference has the same effect as enabling the wide-vector-2022 gadget. (T319449)

Arbitration

Eligible users are invited to vote on candidates for the Arbitration Committee until 23:59 December 12, 2022 (UTC). Candidate statements can be seen here.
The proposed decision for the 2021-22 review of the discretionary sanctions system is open.
The arbitration case Reversal and reinstatement of Athaenara's block has been closed.
The arbitration case Stephen has been opened and the proposed decision is expected 1 December 2022.
A motion has modified the procedures for contacting an admin facing Level 2 desysop.

Miscellaneous

Tech tip: A single IPv6 connection usually has access to a "subnet" of 18 quintillion IPs. Add /64 to the end of an IP in Special:Contributions to see all of a subnet's edits, and consider blocking the whole subnet rather than an IP that may change within a minute.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:44, 1 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

List of Tandy CoCo games

I had just finished adding an intro section to the article to help establish notability. In other words explaining the distinctive situation in the TRS-80 market where Tandy attempted to create an entirely closed market for software, including games, for its computers. Which is why it makes sense in this case to have separate first-party and third-party lists. Did you see that intro item? The existing AfD discussion does not reflect the existence of that sourced information.

Please note: I previously reverted my posting above because I was confused by your newsletter and similar content and thought I misplaced my message. Sorry for the confusion. Carney333 (talk) 00:03, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Update/new comment: Although I appreciate the existence of this page Draft:List of Color Computer 1 and 2 Games from Tandy I'm puzzled as to why it seems to be a major reversion shorn of much information, now lacking not only the introductory text and citations, but also the extensive citations I provided from various reliable sources about individual games on the list.Carney333 (talk) 00:14, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

After looking at the edit history, my best guess about the draft is this: The draft appears to be the result of another editor moving your first version of the page, probably while you were still editing it. When you saved your second edit, it recreated the article without you even realizing it had been moved to draft. The re-created article is what was then nominated for deletion, and deleted, but the moved original still sits in draft. Very confusing! But it's the only way I can interpret the histories that makes sense.

In any case, I can still view the final version, and don't see anything in the introductory material that addresses the arguments for deletion that were presented in the AfD. --RL0919 (talk) 00:51, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

OK thanks for explaining the existence of the draft and the state of its contents. And for assuring me that you saw the final version. Obviously I disagree on it addressing issues at hand but no point rehashing that; just wanted to make sure you'd seen it. Sigh oh well Carney333 (talk) 01:10, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

WP:Articles for deletion/Nick Fuentes, Donald Trump, and Kanye West meeting

Per your closure of this AfD, I'd like the article restored as a userspace draft in my name. I acknowledge that any speedy recreation may be subject to a G4 deletion. ––FormalDude (talk) 06:06, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@FormalDude: Restored and moved to User:FormalDude/Nick Fuentes, Donald Trump, and Kanye West meeting. --RL0919 (talk) 18:44, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Daily Dozen deletion review

Hi, I have submitted the recent Daily Dozen AfD closure for review. By my count, 10 voted for Keep, while 12 voted for Delete. This should be grounds for relisting in most instances, never mind an AfD that has become so contentious, and has triggered many more AfDs, some seemingly made on a whim. Moreover, it would seem reasonable to expect that those voting Keep would like it to Merged as the next best alternative, in which case there would also have been a clear consensus to Merge. In any case, it does not seem obvious to me that a consensus to Delete emerged from the discussion. Best regards, KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 21:35, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm surprised to see this was closed when multiple votes were cast even today. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 22:04, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I created a spreadsheet to track the positions taken and how they were supported. You are correct that 10 editors supported keeping, although two of these did not cite policy-based reasons and one argued that notability guidelines are "advisory". There were 13 editors explicitly supporting deletion, all citing policy-based reasons (typically WP:SIGCOV and/or WP:NCORP). Four editors supported merge as their primary position; three of these also said the subject lacked notability, giving the same reasons as the pro-delete editors. One editor who otherwise strongly argued for deletion said that merging was an acceptable alternative; no editors who supported keeping gave merging as an alternative. One editor made a humorous comment that I think was probably favoring deletion, but it was not clear so it isn't counted in the 13. One repeatedly queried the sources but never took any clear position about the outcome. Another switched positions twice, ending up as neutral. Plus there was a smattering of meta-comments and other noncommittal remarks.

To summarize, 16 of 27 editors with explicit positions said the subject was not notable. That's the clear majority I referred to. Of those, 13 called for deletion, which is the plurality among specific positions. It's hard to make a consensus for merge out of that, and impossible to make a consensus for keep, unless the arguments on the other side were obviously defective/off-topic, which isn't the case here.

As to the possibility of relisting, some of the ongoing commenters had dug in positions and the discussion was becoming increasingly personalized, which did not bode well for a relist being beneficial. --RL0919 (talk) 22:59, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You deserve some kind of medal for taking on that close. Re merging, the fact that the result wasn't Merge never means a WP:DUE amount of material (in this case, one sentence) can't be added to an appropriate other article (in this case, Pike Place Market), per WP:NNC. E Eng 23:18, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the option of mentioning this subject in the Pike Place Market article is definitely allowed. One of the "no clear position" commenters mentioned that specifically in one of the merge-related threads. --RL0919 (talk) 23:22, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Going further, the goals of merging are sometimes better served by a delete outcome than by a merge outcome. The deletion discussion itself, this one in particular, is a permanent record of references that can support one to two sentence long content in the target article, making it much easier to produce a desirable merge result, without carrying over any cruft (i.e. without having to go trough the whole article thinking what to merge in the first place, what not to merge, and what and how to condense; takes many times more effort). So yeah, everything is great here. —Alalch E. 23:43, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Strongly disagree. The article history and talk page history should be preserved, IMO. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 16:56, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I replied to this point at the DRV, toward the end of this diff. Flatscan (talk) 05:26, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

	The Admin's Barnstar
	Well done on your closure of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/December 15, 2022 Twitter suspensions. That was a complex discussion to close and you did so masterfully with a well written closing statement explaining your rationale. TheSandDoctor ^Talk 05:27, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Props also go to @DatGuy and ToBeFree: for protecting the page when the discussion started to derail due to an apparent campaign of disruptive editing. TheSandDoctor ^Talk 05:30, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A few hours of that are mine. The barnstar is probably well-deserved, I don't judge – but as noone has challenged the closure, it seems to be pretty objectively good. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 11:39, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@ToBeFree: My apologies for not acknowledging this; I didn't know you were involved in its closure as it wasn't a panel closure. TheSandDoctor ^Talk 22:44, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No no no, I mean only a few hours of the protection were caused by my action! ~ ToBeFree (talk) 22:54, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I see. Either way you helped @ToBeFree:! Don't short-change yourself

TheSandDoctor ^Talk 06:54, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Continuing from the DRV...

Thank you for continuing to engage in discussion. I find it a privilege to disagree with people like yourself who are articulate and cordial, if not outright kind.
With respect to the first issue, I do not think that considering redirection or merging as regular editing or improvement is as much a stretch as you think it might be. The entire page at WP:DEL is talking about deletion, an act that only administrators can undertake. If you read the policy as a whole, this really stands out in the ATD section. That section goes on to explicitly encompass everything less than deletion, specifically editing, tagging, merging, redirection, incubation, and transwikiing in that order. That is, in the context of WP:DEL anything other than deletion counts as "editing" because that is what headlines the whole alternatives to deletion section.
With respect to your second point--this is not how things are normally done--you have my complete agreement. I maintain that it is 1) what we're supposed to do "on paper" and has been for years, and 2) the actually optimum way to handle things. If you get taken to DRV for merging instead of deleting something like the article that spawned the discussion, I can't prevent that, but I can--and will--show up to defend you or any other admin who takes the time to solve the problem (content not ready for mainspace) in the least destructive way appropriate. Following policy is not supervoting, no more than it would be if 20 people wanted a copyvio kept and you deleted it anyways.
Again, than you for taking the time to try and do the right thing in a difficult situation, even if I would have handled it differently. Jclemens (talk) 03:34, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Happy New Year, RL0919!

Happy New Year!

RL0919,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. See this for background context.
— Moops ^⋠T⋡ 17:13, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

— Moops ^⋠T⋡ 17:13, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – January 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (December 2022).

Administrator changes

Stephen

Interface administrator changes

Nihiltres

CheckUser changes

Moneytrees

Oversighter changes

Guideline and policy news

Speedy deletion criterion A5 (transwikied articles) has been repealed following an unopposed proposal.

Arbitration

Following the 2022 Arbitration Committee elections, the following editors have been appointed to the Arbitration Committee: Barkeep49, CaptainEek, GeneralNotability, Guerillero, L235, Moneytrees, Primefac, SilkTork.
The 2021-22 Discretionary Sanctions Review has concluded with many changes to the discretionary sanctions procedure including a change of the name to "contentious topics". The changes are being implemented over the coming month.
The arbitration case Stephen has been closed.

Miscellaneous

Voting for the Sound Logo has closed and the winner is expected to be announced February to April 2023.
Tech tip: You can view information about IP addresses in a centralised location using bullseye which won the Newcomer award in the recent Coolest Tool Awards.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:09, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Precious anniversary

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:51, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – February 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (January 2023).

Administrator changes

Gimmetrow

CheckUser changes

Oversighter changes

Guideline and policy news

Following an RfC, the administrator policy now requires that prior written consent be gained from the Arbitration Committee to mark a block as only appealable to the committee.
Following a community discussion, consensus has been found to impose the extended-confirmed restriction over the topic areas of Armenia and Azerbaijan and Kurds and Kurdistan.

Technical news

The Vector 2022 skin has become the default for desktop users of the English Wikipedia.

Arbitration

The arbitration case Armenia-Azerbaijan 3 has been opened and the proposed decision is expected 24 February 2023.
In December, the contentious topics procedure was adopted which replaces the former discretionary sanctions system. The contentious topics procedure is now in effect following an initial implementation period. There is a detailed summary of the changes and administrator instructions for the new procedure. The arbitration clerk team are taking suggestions, concerns, and unresolved questions about this new system at their noticeboard.

Miscellaneous

Voting in the 2023 Steward elections will begin on 05 February 2023, 21:00 (UTC) and end on 26 February 2023, 21:00 (UTC). The confirmation process of current stewards is being held in parallel. You can automatically check your eligibility to vote.
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Tech tip: Syntax highlighting is available in both the 2011 and 2017 Wikitext editors. It can help make editing paragraphs with many references or complicated templates easier.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:38, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion review for Tuliram Ronghang

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Tuliram Ronghang. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, you might want to participate in the deletion review.

𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️^{Let's Talk !} 06:10, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – March 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (February 2023).

Administrator changes

The Wordsmith

CheckUser changes

Callanecc

Oversighter changes

Callanecc

Guideline and policy news

Following a request for comment, F10 (useless non-media files) has been deprecated.
Following a request for comment, the Portal CSD criteria (P1 (portal subject to CSD as an article) and P2 (underpopulated portal)) have been deprecated.
A request for comment is open to discuss making the closing instructions for the requested moves process a guideline.

Technical news

The results of the 2023 Community Wishlist Survey have been posted.

Arbitration

Remedy 11 ("Request for Comment") of the Conduct in deletion-related editing case has been rescinded.
The proposed decision for the Armenia-Azerbaijan 3 case is expected 7 March 2023.
A case related to the Holocaust in Poland is expected to be opened soon.

Miscellaneous

The 2023 appointees for the Ombuds commission are AGK, Ameisenigel, Bennylin, Daniuu, Emufarmers, Faendalimas, JJMC89, MdsShakil, Minorax and Renvoy as regular members and Zabe as advisory members.
Following the 2023 Steward Elections, the following editors have been appointed as stewards: Mykola7, Superpes15, and Xaosflux.
The Terms of Use update cycle has started, which includes a [p]roposal for better addressing undisclosed paid editing. Feedback is being accepted until 24 April 2023.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:19, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion review for Rina Bovrisse

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Tuliram Ronghang. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, you might want to participate in the deletion review.

I would like to appeal the deletion review for the Rina Bovrisse page. The page was deleted due to heavy editing wars and hack attacks. Conflict of interest by the hackers are implied.

N.Celikovic ^{Let's Talk !} 06:10, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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+== Deletion review for [[Rina Bovrisse]] ==
+An editor has asked for [[Wikipedia:Deletion review#Rina Bovrisse|'''a deletion review''']] of [[Tuliram Ronghang]]. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, you might want to participate in the deletion review.<!-- Template:DRVNote -->
+I would like to appeal the deletion review for the Rina Bovrisse page. The page was deleted due to heavy editing wars and hack attacks. Conflict of interest by the hackers are implied.
+[[User:N.Celikovic|N.Celikovic]][[User_talk:N.Celikovic|<sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:Navy;">'''''Let's Talk !'''''</sup>]] 06:10, 27 February 2023 (UTC)