Talk:Nursing

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Vague lede

Should the lede be edited to be clearer on what nurses do? Right now, the first 2 sentences are: "Nursing is a profession within the health care sector focused on the care of individuals, families, and communities so they may attain, maintain, or recover optimal health and quality of life. Nurses may be differentiated from other health care providers by their approach to patient care, training, and scope of practice." This is correct, but gives very little information to the lay reader who may not already understand what different roles of health care professionals. (I could just as easily put "physiotherapist," "physician," "pharmacist," etc. in the lede and it would be just as true.) Maybe a bit on the core of nursing being medication administration and assistance with activities of daily living (or something else)? Thoughts? Nsteinberg (talk) 19:08, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

New article on History of nursing

there is more than enough material for a fresh new article on History of nursing; I propose to start one, leaving a basic outline in this article. What do editors think of this idea? Rjensen (talk) 03:33, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Ok we now have a long article on History of nursing; see also History of hospitals. New materials will usually fit better there Rjensen (talk) 08:30, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

BSN and ADN Comparisons.

I have removed the statement "However the BSN graduate has both more classroom and clinical hours of study in nursing than the ADN graduate.", because it is subject to conjecture. While BSN program have more classroom hours devoted to research and certain nursing theories the clinical hours are dependent upon the educational institutions program of study. Most BSN programs have the same or less amount of clinical hours required for graduation. I also removed the statement "BSN graduates are called Professional Nurses.", because it is misleading. Regardless of the degree any nurse that has passed registered nursing licensure by state or NCLEX-RN examination can be called a "Professional Nurse". — Preceding unsigned comment added by RNMyk66 (talk • contribs) 11:44, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Schooling

Whats The Required Education to become A Nurse Practioner? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.235.150.153 (talk) 15:07, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Image of hospital corpsman in gallery

An image was recently added to the entry's gallery (File:US Navy 091129-N-8960W-064 Hospital Corpsman Michael Parke gives a vaccine to Lt. Carlos Lopez aboard the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz (CVN 68).jpg) which depicts a US Navy hospital corpsman giving an injection. The corpsman is identified as such in the file description, but he was described as a nurse in the caption added to this entry. The article has a number of images, so many that we don't need to include non-nursing images such as care provided by other providers. The care in the image in question does look like nursing care (except for the really awkward injection technique), but it's not nursing. I'm discussing here in the spirit of WP:BRD. EricEnfermero ^HOWDY! 20:29, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

ETA: Just a note that the references below are unrelated to the hospital corpsman image, but I can't figure out where they are coming from. EricEnfermero ^HOWDY! 20:32, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

The law at the time said men could not be official RN Army or Navy nurses. however the corpsmen were actually trained and performed the duties of a practical nurse esp on battlefields and in military hospitals. Rjensen (talk) 06:36, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

This is actually in reference to an image from 2009. EricEnfermero ^HOWDY! 18:33, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

Archive updated

I've archived conversations prior to 2013. Basie (talk) 05:42, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Definition of Nursing

The American Nurses Association (ANA) states nursing is the protection, promotion, and optimization of health and abilities, prevention of illness and injury, alleviation of suffering through the diagnosis and treatment of human response, and advocacy in the care of individuals, families, communities, and populations.

I've removed this from the lead in the meantime, as it's a copyvio lifted straight from the source page. I think this might be a good opportunity to talk about how we're defining nursing. What are the best definitions? I don't think it's good enough for us to use a quote from another site or source, not in the lead at least. We need a simple, plain english, non-convoluted lead for this key article.

Ideally I'd like to take the article to GA, little by little! Basie (talk) 00:51, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

References

I restored it as a quote. Wiki editors are not in the business of defining "nursing" or anything else – it is our job to report what the reliable sources say. An official definition presented by the largest and oldest nursing organization is a very important statement that deserves a place in the lead. Rjensen (talk) 10:20, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps I phrased that poorly. When I said, "what are the best definitions", I did not for a moment mean to imply we should make one up. However, I'm not sure that quoting a definition in the lead is the right solution either--especially one that is repeated in the Nursing#Definitions section further down. Many theorists have attempted to define nursing, and not all agree. In some ways it's a much bigger challenge than attempting to define medicine, and it deserves a good deal of thought and discussion in attempting to summarise it in encyclopaedic fashion.

Anyway, I'm guilty of putting the cart before the horse by approaching the lead before the remainder of the article. Since presenting it as a quote resolves the WP:CV issue, we can let it lie there for now. Cheers, Basie (talk) 23:58, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

History

Thanks to Rjensen and others we have a History of nursing article. A large amount of historical material remains in this one, and I'd like us to consider paring down the historical content even further (moving content to the history article as appropriate). I think since this article covers both Nurse and Nursing we definitely need some history, but we should try to present a summary rather than fine detail.

What does everyone think? I may start quietly chipping away at the initial section, feel free to revert/discuss. Cheers, Basie (talk) 20:33, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

yes that's a good idea. Rjensen (talk) 20:41, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. I think there is probably a similar issue with country-specific details. I will try to see if some of the details about Canada could be more concise, now that Basie has created an article about nursing in Canada. --LynnMcCleary (talk) 16:16, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

@LynnMcCleary: Couldn't agree more! I created several of the country-specific articles back in 2009, before I stopped editing for a good four years or so. The problem was the same back then: the UK section in particular was getting out of hand. The list of articles which could be used to move content to if it is thought to fall outside the scope of this one include:

• History of nursing, Timeline of nursing history
• Nursing education]
• Nursing theory
• Nursing process
• Nursing shortage
• Nursing in X country

Obviously we don't want to turn the main article for the project into a ghost town, but neither do we want it a sprawling mess! Cheers, Basie (talk) 20:04, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Phoebe

While we're on the subject, the article claims that "the first nurse" was Phoebe. The source actually says:

The Christian St. Paul introduced a deaconess named Phoebe, a practical nurse, to Rome. She was the first visiting nurse.

(emphasis mine). It's an LPN textbook, not really a historical source. Interestingly, she's described in this source concerned with the accuracy of biblical translations as a 'minister', 'letter carrier' and/or occupied a position of church leadership. WP's Phoebe (biblical figure) has more detailed information, and doesn't mention the word "nurse" anywhere.

I suspect this is one of those assumptions based on popular mistranslation that has sprung up over time, and I'm going to remove it from the current article based on the relatively weak source. It seems impossible to know who was actually "the first nurse", depending on how you define the term. I'd welcome discussion on the issue. Cheers, Basie (talk) 03:35, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

There's this source from 1962 which hypothesizes:

It was in all probability Phoebe, the friend of St. Paul, who organized on a wide scale the nursing of the poor. It is known that she was a church deacon (diakonos, "one who serves"), that she made journeys to Rome, evidently in connection with her work, and that she "succored many"

I presume this and similar references are what the above visiting nurse assumption is made on. Cheers, Basie (talk) 05:14, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

let's keep Phoebe. I found several RS about her--all the way back to Nutting and Dock..eg 1) "Reclaiming the church's healing role" by JM Striepe -Journal of Christian Nursing, 1993 ; 2) Egenes, Karen J. "History of nursing." Issues and trends in nursing: Essential knowledge for today and tomorrow (2009): 1-26; 3) Meyer, Lucy Rider. Deaconesses, Biblical, Early Church, European, American (1892); etc Rjensen (talk) 05:41, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

@Rjensen: I've added her back with a nod to another view, does this seem reasonable to you?

I must say it's been quite an interesting read. My personal opinion is that trying to define "the first nurse" by Paul's letter to the Romans is a) rather eurocentric of us, b) dependent on a biblical interpretation which is, as always, cause for debate, and c) relying on sources who largely seem to be citing each other for support! There are interesting accounts of men in the first Hindu 'hospitals' performing nursing care, well before the Romans and their version of battlefield nursing (it seems like army medics are a better fit there). And of course women have been nursing in their own homes and others probably before any of 'em. It's an easy issue to get bogged down in, but I feel as if the current state of that paragraph might be ok in the meantime, if a little heavy on the inline cites. She's mentioned so often in the first few pages of nursing textbooks that not including her almost seems churlish. Cheers, Basie (talk) 08:42, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Basie. Our job is to reflect what the nursing textbooks say unless we find better RS. it is not "Eurocentric" when there are so many Christians in Latin America, Asia & Africa. There are vast amounts of Chinese, Indian etc sources and if they tell of a first nurse then it should be included Rjensen (talk) 21:38, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Source material

Jotting down some sources I've found that may be helpful:

• Helmstadter & Godden (2011). Nursing Before Nightingale, 1815-1899.
• Depierri (1968). One way of unearthing the past. (Ancient Greece!)
• Fell & Hallet (2013). First World War Nursing: New Perspectives.

References

Basie (talk) 04:23, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Source review

As part of upgrading this article, I'm going to start gradually reviewing all sources cited. My plan is to remove sources I consider to be weak or unreliable. If I do remove anything, I'll place it here for further comment. I note that this article is also a part of the medical Wikiproject, which has a guideline for sourcing. Obviously it won't always be possible to use review articles for everything in Nursing, but we should strive for quality I believe.

I also plan to convert citations to use templates wherever possible, update access dates, and aim for consistency overall. As always, please feel free to comment, contribute, or suggest! Cheers, Basie (talk) 21:59, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

I agree. I don't seem to have a lot of time for editing but I will try to help with this. I notice that citation 51 is to a broken link. I'm not sure whether it should just be removed (still new to editing) while looking for other sources. --LynnMcCleary (talk) 16:38, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Removed sources

• Early nursing Comment: this was providing justification for the statement, "The nursing profession suffered a major setback for approximately 200 years, only to be rescued by individuals, not organizations, in the nineteenth century." While likely true, the source is a wiki with no sources of its own, and the author is identified only by an IP. We can do better!

References

fake ?

Taiwan is a country, could Some of these people you have some respect to other cultures?

is really rude, too see someone call my country fake

--Composcompos12 (talk) 14:03, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Composcompos12's edits

Readers of our articles need to be able to understand the text. If the words are written in a way that is hard for readers to comprehend, the text is useless. Composcompos12 is Taiwanese and it shows in their writing—English is their second language. We need to provide concise articles for our readers. Composcompos12, please contribute to Wikipedia in your native language and not here. Dawnseeker2000 16:27, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

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More on district nursing needed

I am a little concerned that this article says very little on the work of a district nurse. In fact, when I looked at List of nursing specialties (sic), district nursing was not on the list. I shall be appreciative if this could be rectified. If changes were to be made, there could be mention that the term district nurse might be replaced by community nurse.Vorbee (talk) 15:28, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

There are citations needed in certain areas of the text. Eccstudent18 (talk) 20:13, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Gender distribution in healthcare

In the US, the Simpson's paradox explains a peculiar fact that seeing a male health provider, not wearing a badge or other insignia, is more likely to be a nurse rather than a doctor. This is due to the heavily imbalance in the gender distributions in the two primary healthcare professions (nurses and doctors). This may be a nice example to add to Nursing gender issues section of the main article.

References

Countries

Far too much detail about nursing training etc in individual countries. That material should be in the article about the country. Rathfelder (talk) 13:17, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Nursing for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Nursing is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Nursing until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 10:09, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Rearranging the subsection of Worldwide and adding Colombia

Hey y'all,

I am wondering how we go about rearranging the worldwide subsection so it can be alphabetical?

Also, I am thinking of adding Colombia due to a research project I am doing but I think we could benefit from adding a general Latin America sub-heading and then add Colombia. Any comments or feedback would be appreciated! D. Vase (talk) 04:22, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Workplace Violence in Nursing

I added information about workplace violence within the field of Nursing and I added a few citations. I think an area for improvement on this page is to give more information regarding workplace violence in the field of Nursing. Kenziemaher (talk) 17:55, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: LLIB 1115 - Intro to Information Research

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Licensed practical nurse vs registered nurse vs registered practical nurse vs licensed vocational nurse vs nurse vs nurse practitioner

From the article it's not clear what the differences are between these designations. Is there a designation just called nurse?

Wiki Education assignment: LLIB 1115 - Intro to Information Research

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 August 2022 and 16 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Stevsair, Berenicerios15 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Stevsair 07:35, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Nursing in Japan too lengthy

I feel the Japan topic in nursing is too lengthy when especially it has its own main article. I would suggest to summarised it more. rektz (talk) 12:52, 6 December 2022 (UTC)