User talk:Mathglot

My editing tips.

Feedback request: Wikipedia style and naming request for comment

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Your draft article, Draft:Nth slash

Hello, Mathglot. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Nth slash".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:25, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Comma flip

Hello, Mathglot. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Comma flip".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:26, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Comma flip2

Hello, Mathglot. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Comma flip2".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:45, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:MD expand

Hello, Mathglot. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "MD expand".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:46, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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News from Brazil

Maybe we should go update some stuff out of noblesse oblige: unless people are taking care of it of course, in which case yay. `Elinruby (talk) 19:33, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

@Elinruby: I'd love to, but I just feel swamped with the French criminal law stuff, and a couple of related drafts, all kind of waiting for Draft:Glossary of French criminal law to get expanded, so we can use the right terms in English. This even affects things like your new Public action article, which as far as what it really means, is more "criminal proceedings", although it does appear as "public action" sometimes English books and articles on French law, when they want to give a literal translation; but it's not really what it is. The history of French criminal law is really interesting, and it all got turned upside down in the 80s/90s, resulting in the complete rewrite of the law which came out in 1994, and introduced some basic principles (such as the important article 121-3 about the élément moral that was never in the old code (although they claimed it was always there "by tradition", even though never written down). (By the way, check the wikicode for how I linked the article; I just beefed up the template that supports creation of links like that.) There are several good sources for explanations of basic terms of French law, probably the best (or at least, longest) is the Glossary of the Ministère de la Justice.

I'll at least have a look at the Praça topic you pinged me from. (At least, we've already got a Glossary for that legal system.) Mathglot (talk) 02:11, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Yeah what's the title of that? I will post it on the talk page, with your permission? I am at the moment just going to give it a critical read. I think the editors here ATM are all English speakers. There was a kid who said he speaks Portuguese but I think I might have been a little too intense for him. Or maybe he was just there to link the Elon Musk tweet, and got mad when I said it was self-published. Hopefully he just went to dinner and will be back. He told me he asked for help at the pt.wiki article. As for your stray drafts, can I help? I think I will have some availability in a couple of hours....Elinruby (talk) 02:27, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Yeah but public action is taken on behalf of society, right? Elinruby (talk) 02:29, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

‘A Uralic language’ or ‘An Uralic language’

I was under the impression that Uralic was pronounced ‘oo-rah-lic’.

I made an edit on the wiki page for Hungary from the former to the latter, citing grammatical reasons, which you reverted.

However, I’ve now realised that it’s pronounced ‘yoo-rah-lic’, which means your modification was the correct one.

So thanks. 81.111.32.56 (talk) 06:11, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

You're welcome. Mathglot (talk) 06:14, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Did you ping me?

I am busy RL with something urgent but I think you answered my question about the constitutionality of Lula's response and said there there were provisions for that kind of takeover. If so good, but I can't find it at the moment to verify that.

I think UmChad did a pretty good good job of recruiting the right people from pt.wiki to help out, so I am less worried about the article than I was. The most urgent at the moment seems to be the unresolved questions about whether the claimed CC licences on the images are valid, if you are interested in that; if not, I have said that I will work on it when I come back from, unless someone has come along in the meantime who could resolve it off the top of their head. I've tried just deleting and gotten reverted.

Meanwhile are you ok? I am repeating my offer to help you finish your stale drafts, or whatever. After the number of times you've talked me down off a ledge it's the really least I can do, and while it's not apparent from my contributions to Wikipedia I am code-literate, which may be of interest there. (Just not currently swimming in those waters) LMK. Elinruby (talk) 19:48, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi, did anything happen?

I have no context on what are you talking about. UmChad (talk) 20:55, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

@UmChad: I pinged you just to let you know I was saying nice things about you. You were going to post on some articles over at pt.wiki that we were asking for help in the Brasília article, and apparently you did a good job, since the article seems to be currently in good hands. I am saying this to Mathglot in particular because we worked on Operation Car Wash together and I had brought the Brasília article to Mathglot's attention at about the time I was talking to you, when the riot was still going on.

As far as the current state of the article is concerned, as of about an hour ago there was a copyright question that will probably require a specialist, and they are still debating what to call the article, if you have thoughts on that. Otherwise, carry on, and thanks for the help Elinruby (talk) 21:12, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

I found your answer, Mathglot.Elinruby (talk) 05:04, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

@Elinruby: I'm fine, thank you! I'm getting back into the glossary, and then I have to beef up the two drafts, on Draft:French criminal law, and Draft:French code of criminal procedure. Behind that, is a Draft started by somebody on the Fundamental laws of the Kingdom of France which was completely unsourced, so I blanked it down to one sentence, and started building it back up again, but that's kind of in third or fourth place. And then my real project that I want to get back to, is the Draft:French historiography, for which I have several books out of the library and coming due; never enough time! And then recently, I've been on a side track, beefing up the {{Legifrance}} template, and its documentation, to make it usable. And for sourcing the glossary, I've got two great sources now—can't remember if I told you—this one from Ministere de la Justice, and this one from Justice.fr (also part of MdlJ). If you want to help, head to the Nav template at {{French criminal law}}, and pick any red link of interest to you. Or find new links that ought to be in the Nav template, but aren't there yet. Mathglot (talk) 09:12, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Yeah one of the reason I have been so slow with Natural person (apart from the.fact that it's simultaneously boring and mind-blowing) is that the upcoming references are all code pénal,which will require a lot of manual import. And primary sources. But no worries. I found some pretty good secondary sources for the sections to date.Elinruby (talk) 09:26, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

@Elinruby: Yeah, that's why I try to use the two MdlJ glossary links above, which are secondary, as opposed to the {{Legifrance}} links, which are primary. And don't forget all the links in the External links section at the Glossary, which are definitely secondary, and might help with some terms. (Do you subscribe to discussions now, or do I need to keep pinging?) Mathglot (talk) 09:50, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Subscribe is not an option in mobile view, I realized after we talked about this last time. But you don't need to ping if you don't feel like typing all that out, unless it's urgent somehow. When I am working in something I check the associated pages pretty frequently, which would include this one at the moment. As to the content of your question: oh yeah, good point. Elinruby (talk) 10:20, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

Your feedback is requested at Talk:The Grayzone on a "All RFCs" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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 Done. Mathglot (talk) 08:42, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

The Grayzone RFC

Hi Mathglot. I appreciate your comment that was directed at me at the RFC. I think I'll give myself a self-imposed 72 hour ban on editing the talk page, unless someone tries to close it without allowing further discussion. I also appreciate your kind and courteous tone, your apparent attempt to steelman my argument rather than strawman it, and your calm and detailed explanation of your position. That's how I seek to act online, too. It stands in contrast to other comments, which are glib, uncivil, and hurtful...nice to meet you. Philomathes2357 (talk) 08:26, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

@Philomathes2357:, thank you for your kind words, and you are welcome here anytime. I'm never bothered by someone who might have a different view from me on a point of content, as long as their goal is is to find the best outcome for the project in good faith. Clearly, that is your goal at the Rfc, and I look forward to "meeting" you at other articles and Talk pages, as I know that we are both seeking the same goal, i.e., the improvement of the encyclopedia. All the best to you! Oh, and before I forget: thanks for introducing me to the word steelman, it's the first I've heard of it, and I love learning new words; so I owe you one! Mathglot (talk) 08:42, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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 Done boldly removed the Rfc tag and commented. Mathglot (talk) 02:44, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

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Ct/aware test succeeded

This message records the success of a test of the efficacy of the Template:Contentious topics/aware template on a user page using the shortcut Template:Ct/aware, per the discussion at Module talk:Contentious topics/aware#Edit request to support redirect. An attempt to add {{subst:Contentious topics/alert/first|gg}} in this section triggered the filter, and displayed the pink Arbcom box at the top of the page, including "The user has indicated that they are already aware using the template {{Contentious topics/aware}} on their talk page".

The content of the original test follows in the wikicode in hidden text. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 21:37, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

This redirect was created as a subpage of an existing, unrelated template. I can't recall ever seeing a redirect like this, which seems to violate WP:EGG or a similar guideline. I do not think it should exist. – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:23, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

@Jonesey95:, I don't follow what you are saying; can you elaborate? Seems to me it's completely analogous to the redirect at Template:Ds/aware (in its original incarnation; I don't see the original history or content of it anymore). How is this redirect any different from that one? Adding Dreamy Jazz. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 22:29, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

In implementing WP:CT2022 I originally created redirects subpages of Template:Ct, but then I deleted them after discussion with others who were implementing that Template:Ct was a long standing template that shouldn't probably have unrelated template shortcuts as subpages. This seems to have been created since by you. I don't mind whether it exists or not, but it might be worth taking this to RfD if there is disagreement.

Also the history of Template:Ds/aware has been moved to Template:Contentious topics/aware. Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 22:37, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

{{ct/aware}} has nothing to do with {{ct}}, which is a template about cycling teams. As such, I believe that {{ct/aware}} should not exist as a subtemplate of {{ct}}. I hope that is clear enough. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:45, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Okay, now I see what you mean; yes, that's clear. Sounds like it should be taken to RfD, although I'd argue that since nobody needs to be "cycling teams aware", that in fact there is no ambiguity here. I agree that it would be an unusual situation for a subtemplate to redirect somewhere else, but I don't actually see a guideline or policy that would discourage this, and so I'd just go back to general principles about what is best for our users, and I'd argue that many template users are familiar with "Ds/aware" and will type "Ct/aware" (like I did) and will expect it to invoke this template, whereas I can't imagine anyone typing "Ct/aware" with the intention to say something about cycling teams, so they'll never even be aware of its existence. Therefore, best for readers, no confusion for anybody, good solution. But if there's a guideline about subtemplates that contradicts this, then, sadly, we would have to give up this otherwise helpful shortcut. Mathglot (talk) 00:44, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

I'm not going to delete something that will be useful to a lot of people, but it sure was strange to see it crop up, as I had just been looking at the Ct family of templates a few hours earlier. You might consider adding some content to the redirect page explaining that it is unrelated to the parent template. This construction seems fragile, and I wouldn't build anything that depended on it. If the parent template is ever moved, don't be surprised if ct/aware stops working. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:06, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

I just noticed that the term "CT" is being used spontaneously, at this discussion at WP:ACN. Hardly surprising, since that is the natural initialism for it. Mathglot (talk) 05:36, 19 January 2023 (UTC

Interesting topic. Is there a definition of "contentious topic?" If so I am somewhat in favor, especially if people are typing it.Elinruby (talk) 19:55, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

@Elinruby: this is a readjustment of the old, ArbCom "discretionary sanctions" topic, after a period of development and review. It's partly just a rename of the old "DS" system along with the templates {{Ds/alert}} and {{Ds/aware}} (which now redirect), along with some new wording, a modified way of handling enforcement (I think the "sanctions" word has been mostly dropped, a revamped and renamed project page, and some other stuff. My issue above was very limited, having to do only with the establishment of a Template shortcut/redirect. For a broader view of the whole topic, see Wikipedia:Contentious topics. Mathglot (talk) 20:11, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

I understand the part about the cycling team. This is under development, I take it though, but part of the change in DS? Interested the topic. How much is the cycling template used?Elinruby (talk) 20:41, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

@Elinrbuy: The issue about the redirect, is that there is already a template called {{ct}}, and it's the cycling team template; it has existed since 2007, and has 12,000 transclusions. So there's just no question whatever that the cycling topic owns that template, and that is not going to change. The question is, is it legitimate to have a template called "ct/alert" or "ct/aware", where these templates are *not* about the cycling team? In the file structure of the en-wiki database, these exist as subpages of the cycling team template, but are not about cycling. That is the issue. I understand the argument opposed to it, and it's definitely highly unusual, but I think it's okay in this case. It probably needs to go to Rfd. Mathglot (talk) 20:49, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

reping to fix typo: User:Elinruby. Mathglot (talk) 20:51, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

right, maybe? The answer to the question I asked is 12,O00. I agree with the rest of what you said though, and also that yes in that case it is used way too much to contemplate moving the cyclists. In that case... hmm. It does seem fragile, ok, carry on I guess.Elinruby (talk) 21:13, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Police collaboration under the Vichy regime

Hi @Mathglot: How goes it? I decided to create this article as there was a missing link on the template. I intend to translate the fr article which is pretty detailed and add en sources that I've found to supplement it, perhaps if they are more modern. I don't know. It will take some months to write iy, but if you have spare moment, can you look in now and again, see if things are going well. scope_creep^Talk 17:06, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi, scope_creep, nice to hear from you! Going well, thank you, and really busy trying to build out a gap in our coverage of French law along with Elinruby. Thanks for creating this new article. The {{ill}} link at the {{Vichy France}} template is still red, because the link there named the article as "Police collaboration in Vichy France". I think that title is preferable, because "Vichy regime" has a slight whiff of POV, as it was and is used mostly by opponents of the regime (I call it that, too, because I think it was an illegitimate regime, but that's kind of the point). "Vichy France" is more neutral, even though that wasn't the real name of that government/regime either, of course, but nobody calls it "The French State", so by common name, and consistency with the "Vichy France" article, I'd call the new article "Police collaboration in Vichy France". (That's the same reason why the template is called {{Vichy France}}, and why {{Vichy regime}} is a redirect to it.) If you have no objection, can we move it over? Other than that, the stub looks like a good start, thank you for starting this. I've watchlisted it so I won't forget, and will pop in now and then to see how it's going, and I'll leave you comments on the Talk page there if I notice anything.

In the meantime, or afterward, if you'd like to create more stubs, the whole area of French criminal or civil law is practically untouched territory, and there's any number of new articles waiting to be created. There's a new nav template full of red links, but the nav template itself is still under development, and it's not clear if all those red links should be articles (probably not), and there are probably even more missing links that should be added to it, so the whole area is in flux, until we figure out how best to handle it. If you decide to jump in, it could keep you busy for as long as you like. Mathglot (talk) 20:15, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Good. I've renamed the article as per your suggestion. I intend to work on this at the moment. Lots of work on that template. It will keep you busy. I've updated some of the references on the draft article and added refs on the French criminal law article. I'll pop in over the year and on that anti-semitism article you were writing on last year. I plan to make that my external project and work on it when I have the odd minute. I see there is plenty to do. Once you think its all done, you find its a tiny fragment of something massively larger. I see your working with Elinruby. I worked on an archeology, french archeology site article with them a few weeks ago. Good editor. Saved it from draft: Jublains archeological site. If you need any of those drafts mainspaced, ping me. I can do it for you, page reviewer. scope_creep^Talk 20:54, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

@Scope creep:, Re "tiny fragment of something massively larger", ha-ha, I know exactly what you mean, and that has already been happening in this case. Reminds me of a false peak. French criminal law is a huge topic area, but it's only a fragment of all of French law, so you nailed that one. And I noticed when you two pulled "Jublains" back from the brink; good job both of you. Mathglot (talk) 21:21, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Fwiw "régime" could be coming from something I did, since I have used that and translated a bunch in the area. I have no objection however to "Vichy France" if that seems preferable. The official designate is état français, I believe, but of course that is not the common name in English. I have no strong feelings on the matter and they all designate a specific organization. The official French position used to be that this was an illegitimate state and therefore all of its laws are void and it is not "France". I think they have gotten away from that though, and it also usually mattered only in terms of the French constitution. I don't have strong feelings about the naming.Elinruby (talk) 21:01, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

False peak is very accurate in this instance. You've got you work cut out. I think Vichy France is ideal as its linked to the template. That article is on its way. scope_creep^Talk 21:27, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Neither criminal nor not

Words that may fall in this category and stem from Roman law would also likely occur in common law, don't you think? So maybe the way to address this would be be to compile a list and see.whether anything needs to be added to current en-Wikipedia coverage. Off the top of my head, identity and person and rights might fall in that category. Probably the way to proceed would be to work on that Civil law glossary then let you know if I find ad areas where there seems to be a significant gap in coverage (?)

also, are you still interested in Catalan? I have a bit of a mystery complete with its own parade puppets, but it's of no urgency, been kicking around PNT for years Elinruby (talk) 23:40, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

@Elinruby: There are certainly terms going back to Roman law in both areas; Prof. Doucet's dictionary often references Roman law. Some terms definitely cross the boundary between criminal and administrative law. For the time being, I think the best way to handle terms that are common to both is to include the term in one of the glossaries, and then use selective transclusion to include it in the other one; this guarantees they will always be in sync, and we'll never have to update it in two places. If you go to the O's in Draft:Glossary of French administrative law#O, and look at the wikicode, you'll see my attempt to use SELTRANS there for the term ordre public. It didn't work, but I think that's because SELTRANS works in mainspace, but not draftspace. If interested, see my Talk page question about this.

Further down the road, there's more than just these two: I'm learning that "criminal law" + "administrative law" is not the totality of French law; there are still several other categories (commercial, family, employment, and others). Putting it another way, I don't think "administrative law" is a synonym for "civil law", which is much larger; but I think focusing narrowly is the right approach, or it will never get done. Maybe some day, we'll have a parent list, "Glossary of French law" with five or ten sections, one each for all the different subtypes, but we're a long way off from that. Meanwhile, I've done E's and F's in the criminal law glossary, so we're probably 15-20% done with it now (although I just realized there are a ton of missing 'A' words that need to be added).

Always interested in Catalan stuff. Mathglot (talk) 01:41, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

I will ping you on the Catalan article. I've recently done some work on it but I've personally have hit a question that I need a map for. As a bonus in that article though, one of the local "dwarfs" (which I am pretty sure is a parade puppet) has the same name as the local saint. Hmm.

On Glossary, ok, when this comes up I'll copy the translusion code. That way we can have one problem rather than possibly several Elinruby (talk) 01:54, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

@Elinruby:, the SELTRANS code in the administrative glossary is working now; I had made a dumb mistake before, now fixed. Easiest way to find it, is look for '#section:' in the wikicode. Mathglot (talk) 06:33, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Cool Elinruby (talk) 06:39, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Laws about language

I have become interested in laws about language, which I think would fall under administrative law. I am also curious about that hint I saw about ordre public being in conflict with European law, so I will probably translate that next; just a heads up on what I plan to work in Elinruby (talk) 20:23, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

I was interested in that, quite some time ago (pre-dating my activity at WP). You probably already know that the Academy rejects or approves words and spellings of loanwords (such as, weekend and sandwich, which are approved, and the plural is sandwichs because the plural is formed according to French pluralization rules, not English ones; and pique-nique, not picnic) and so on. Much of France, esp. young people, regularly ignores all this, and just uses the English word. The Academy has recently proposed mot-dieze for hashtag, but was mocked mercilessly on social media, so that one is heading nowhere, fast. The point, though, is that decisions by the Academy on language are printed in the J.O. so take on the force of law (I'm not sure what kind of law; obviously, not penal law). So if you're interested in laws about language, definitely look at the AF and their occasional pronouncements on language; I find it fascinating reading, and the public response is just as interesting.

Quebec often has a different take: they are much more conservative than France (stop signs in Quebec are in French, not English), and they had/have words for things like "WalkMan" and "browser" that were never adopted in France.

Finally, I assume you are mostly referring to France, but Germany has this going on (where the Duden is the quasi-official arbiter, like the AF in France), and starting in the 1990s, there was a ton of activity, led by women, on the gender neutrality issue in German. I wrote Binnen-I, which is just one tiny corner of that issue, but links there will take you to broader articles about the topic, if you're interested in the German angle on laws and language. Finally, due to their particular history, Germany has laws about use of terms connected with Nazism, where other countries don't.

If you're thinking about writing an article about the topic, dystopian novels like Animal Farm and A Clockwork Orange also deal with issues like this, and might be an interesting part of the history. (Added subsection header above, to set this off.) Mathglot (talk) 21:17, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Rabbit hole of Alfonsos

If you go to Castellgalí could you look at the History section and see if you can figure out which Alfonso I they are talking about? Just in case you've figured this one out before. Don't put more time into it than you want to; I might have to rewrite the section anyway. Elinruby (talk) 23:53, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

 Resolved, I think. Mathglot (talk) 10:10, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Yeah I think so, thanks. Elinruby (talk) 00:52, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Religion and philosophy request for comment

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Flyer's Talk Page

Greetings Mathglot

I hope you are doing well.

In reference to this edit

To clarify, the "mysterious format changes" that I referenced in my edit comment are described in the following article:

[1]https://www.businessinsider.com/new-wikipedia-update-looks-different-desktop-redesign-2023-1#:~:text=Wikipedia%20looks%20...,easier%20to%20use%20for%20everyone.%22

The images that I rearranged on Flyer's talk page looked jumbled up on my computer screen which is why I rearranged those images. I assumed this issue was caused by Wiki's recent format changes referenced above. When I originally added those images to Flyer's talk page, those images did not look jumbled up, so something has changed. Apparently these images do not look jumbled up on your computer screen since you stated everything "was fine before." Please let me know your thoughts. thanks Mistercontributer (talk) 01:51, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Mistercontributer, thanks for your comment, and for alerting me here. My talk page is not the best venue for this (although it's a start, since I reverted your edit at User talk:Flyer22 Frozen, as you pointed out. However, since you see this as possibly related to the recent rollout, it would be better to post this at a centralized discussion where people with more knowledge about it can comment. I'll try to look around for where that page might be, but as a heads-up, I'm pretty busy, so may not get to it right away. If you can search around and find what seems like the right place, that would help. Be aware that it's possible that the place to report bugs and other issues might be at one of our sister projects, such as meta: or mediawiki, but normally we should start looking here, probably at a "project page" (i.e., a page which starts with the prefix "Wikipedia:"). Please reply below to lmk what you found. Thanks again, Mathglot (talk) 02:17, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

MisterContributer I believe I have seen notifications from Centralized Discussion about skin changes if that helps. I have not been following that but you might find a link about this on the Community page off the main menu. Elinruby (talk) 01:08, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

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Db-g7 requested. Mathglot (talk) 23:52, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

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 Done: dont-care, close, TROUT. About what skin to use on mobile. Mathglot (talk) 23:53, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Welcome test

Of template {{Welcome to Wikipedia}}, rev. 1137281166 of 20:22, 3 February 2023:

Comment out:

{{Welcome to Wikipedia}}

Mathglot (talk) 08:10, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Template:Cite legifrance

Just wanted to say, as you probably realized, that {{R from alternative case}} cannot be used in the template namespace so that is why I removed it- if only Capricorn had a field for custom edit summaries! ~ Eejit43 (talk) 14:33, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

@Eejit43:, yes, thanks, I realized after the fact, and changed it to {{R from modification}}. Now I've got two problems with the operation of that tool: the one you pointed out, and the fact that it simply removes one rcat, without suggesting the other. Thanks for your comments, and if you do use the tool a lot, watch out for the latter situation as it may be an improvement in many cases. Cheers, Mathglot (talk) 19:20, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

I just want to save trouble

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Friend, you have to know that I am in China, it is very easy to get the GDP of Chinese cities, I just want to save trouble, so I did not cite the source at the first time, but it does not mean that this is wrong data.2022年全国城市GDP十强全部出炉，武汉超越杭州-今日头条 (toutiao.com) 李双能 (talk) 08:50, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Responded at your Talk page. Mathglot (talk)

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Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment

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 Done Proc. close, and then it was removed. Mathglot (talk) 07:34, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for February 14

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Is there a scandal here?

Bandeirantes no rush, ignoring for now Elinruby (talk)

Initial searches don't find much. But broaden the search a bit to include more than just them, and you might find some other things. If you try this:

Google "Brasil Colônia" AND (escândalo OR corrupcâo)

it looks pretty promising, from just the titles. See if there's anything worthwhile there. Mathglot (talk) 09:08, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Not sure if you "subscribe" to discussions (do you?), so here's a @Elinruby:, just in case. Mathglot (talk) 09:09, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

It's not an option on the mobile platform, but I usually check back on threads I start on other pages. There's a lot of mayhem there but no mention of scandal. However Guarani War may qualify since the Church was a victim also: "The missions were destroyed and their Guarani inhabitants were enslaved in large raids by bandeirantes between 1636 and 1638; however, in 1687, the Jesuits were back in the region, having refounded seven reductions, the Misiones Orientales." No rush on this either, just a question to keeping mind. Elinruby (talk) 09:17, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

@Elinruby: This article has a lot about corruption in colonial Brazil. Not sure if "corruption" always equals "scandal", but there must be an overlap. Don't forget the Brazil glossary when reading it; I right away recognized some terms in the article (like ventagem illicita, and others) that I remember adding to the glossary. The term "delinquir" was new to me, but maybe they assumed it was new to their readership as well, because they double-quoted it; sounds like it might be an obsolete term. Some of that article even reminds me of some of the stuff I learned doing the French glossary, so there's a nice kind of pt–fr synergy going on there right now. Mathglot (talk) 09:29, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

nod, I got all nostalgic when I saw "award-winning" defendants earlier ;) I like your search terms, but the first one I clicked was about what the church thought of concubines, and I'm not in the mood for Catholic stuff right now. Unrelated issue: if it's a phase of OCW do we nest it or shall we stick with the top-level pages? Looking at your link now Elinruby (talk) 09:39, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Elinruby And also try this page it's really interesting, and is about corruption in the 16th – 18th c., and about a historian who did her post-doc in Spain about it; very interesting. Her book is Corrupção e poder no Brasil: uma história, séculos XVI a XVIII and might provide more info.

As far as OCW parts, couldn't decide how to handle it; nest or not. But you're doing a good job, do whatever you think is right. Mathglot (talk) 09:51, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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 Done. Mathglot (talk) 01:00, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

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I'll bite

old= Alaska? Thinking Bering Sea, although that's controversial. Maya? Throw me a clue ;) Elinruby (talk) 20:31, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Back to Glossary and stuff

@Elinruby: So, I've been pushing the glossary a bit, getting close to critical mass, although I think I won't be ready to pause until it hits 240kb or so (now 170). In the meantime, the glossary is in good enough (read, "helpful enough") state, that I can now start to make some headway on all the red links in the Nav template. I started on that today, with a new article Jurisdictional dualism in France. A couple of weeks ago, I didn't know anything about this, and my understanding kind of just evolved, out of doing the glossary entries. So, besides just expanding the glossary, it's also expanding my understanding, and telling me where the gaps are. There were actually a couple of articles that touched on the topic, but only poorly, and you can kind of tell, that the editors writing it didn't really have a handle on what it is all about, and now I really do. It's all kind of synergistic; the more you understand, the more you can understand, and I'm on a steep part of the learning curve, so my understanding of French criminal law is ramping up rapidly, now. The plan is to continue beefing up the glossary, but maybe spending half as much time as before, and use the rest of the time to spit out little stub articles until the Nav template is all blue. Then maybe go back and start expanding them, or finding more red links (fr-wiki has many dozens, maybe hundreds of articles on the topic that we don't; we can pick off the most important ones). Mathglot (talk) 07:41, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Random Catalan

Garraf plot 162.216.189.67 (talk) 08:13, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Added an {{Expand Catalan}} for now; will check back later. Mathglot (talk) 08:29, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

🌻 Elinruby (talk) 07:46, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

examples

Environmental issues in the San Joaquin Valley

I was also thinking that money-laundering as in Panama Papers, Paradise Papers would have a common set of references.Elinruby (talk) 00:59, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

@Elinruby:, Thanks. As far as the link, what would be the group of articles that would share citations with it? Usually, having a nav template that links a bunch of related articles is a good start, but it's only a rough approximation because there's no guarantee they will share citations, although it's more likely than with a group of random articles. The Environment article doesn't have a Nav template, so how would I find a group of articles naturally related to it, that might share its citations? Mathglot (talk) 01:07, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

These definitely share the groundwater issues:[[Category:Populated places in Fresno County, California]].</nowiki Probably most of Tulare County. Kern County would likely all share in the air pollution from oil wells problem. If this is interesting, I can take a look at what the scope is exactly a bit later today. Merced County should probably be included; San Francisco is on a different water table, etc. I stumbled across this article while looking at an AfD about the water system in Fresno. [[User:Elinruby|Elinruby]] ([[User talk:Elinruby|talk]]) 01:22, 8 March 2023 (UTC) Oops, "these" = <nowiki>[[Category:Populated places in Fresno County, California]] Elinruby (talk) 01:23, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Er, Category:Populated places in Fresno County, California

(edit conflict) @Elinruby:, You forgot the leading colon in [[:Category:Populated places in Fresno County, California]], so your message was completely mysterious to me because that link is completely missing from your message above (instead, it places my Talk page into that category). When I edited the section to say, "which ones?", *then* I saw your category link in the wikicode, so now I understand. (Don't forget to hit "Preview", you would've spotted it then.) That's a good lead, and also a good way to find groups of related articles (not just through nav templates). Mathglot (talk) 01:29, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Post-ec: just stick a leading colon *before* the word 'category', to link it within square brackets. Mathglot (talk) 01:29, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Yeah the EC was me rushing in a nowiki tag when I saw that. Colon would be easier though, I'll keep that in mind. I'll Google around on this a bit later for scope, going offline for a bit Elinruby (talk) 01:34, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Some of the articles will need text to reference. Giving it thought. Elinruby (talk) 02:45, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Template:Ref info banner

I edited Template:Ref info banner to fix a self-closed tag, but I'm not sure if it does anything. Other than for creating anchors, span tag usually has to span something in order to do anything. —Anomalocaris (talk) 05:59, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

@Anomalocaris:, thanks. I originally had it with a separate end-span tag, but did the self-closure to save a few characters. This span tag does do something: it adds white space before the next element. Normally, I'd simply apply that style directly to the next element, but for some reason, several alternate styles failed to move the text, including <div style="margin:auto">, as well as various left-margin and left-padding schemes; I have no idea why. From there, I went to triple-  (works; but clunky and crude), and finally to the span, in order to get something that worked and didn't look too clunky, which is where we are now. I know it could be done neatly by recasting the whole tmbox |text= param as a table, but that seems like overkill just to get horizontal text alignment, so I was content to leave the working span. Still curious why the standard style on the next element didn't work, but not so curious that I'm going to tinker with it endlessly. Thanks again for your adjustment. Mathglot (talk) 06:12, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Archiving

Hi, in the reshuffling at the Talk:Collaboration with the Axis powers, the archive bot either appears to a. have been removed [2], or b. set back to 90 days; I'm not sure which. Could you (re)setup the archiving? I'm thinking that 10 or 15 day timeframe for archiving is best for while the page is very active; there's no need to keep 90-day-old discussions on the Talk page. -- K.e.coffman (talk) 21:07, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

K.e.coffman, Thanks for spotting this; the archive config has been restored, set to 90 days for now. Your diff is a huge one, spanning many versions, but if you look at this diff, you can see where it happened. One more thing: the reason you wrote to me, I assume, is because you noticed my addition of archive indexing to the page, and perhaps you weren't sure if that was responsible for the archiving problem you found. Answer: it wasn't; what this new line does, is to create a new page which indexes the section names from all the archives. It's very handy for finding stuff; you can click the "Index" link at the Talk page, or just go here: Talk:Collaboration with the Axis powers/Archive index. Notice that the columns are sortable, and if you click the first one, you get every section name from every archive, sorted A to Z. (Also pinging Elinruby, because not sure if you know about the handy, "archive index" feature; it may help you navigate the archives.)

User:Shakescene, when altering archiving on a Talk page, please make sure you understand the difference between configuring the archiving bot (which causes Talk content to be moved), and displaying a box with archival links in it (which does not move anything); they are two separate functions. Deleting the archive bot config (i.e., here) stops the bot in its tracks, which is what happened in this case. (No worries; it's fixed, now.) Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 21:43, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I was not sure what happened; that's why I generally disagreed with Shakescene's attempt to manually clerk the page vs leaving it to the bot. Thanks for restoring the bot.

PS: this is pretty cool: Talk:Collaboration with the Axis powers/Archive index. --K.e.coffman (talk) 22:01, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Taking off the seatbelt and driving towards a cliff

Just saw the talk page. You ok? Elinruby (talk) 23:57, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

A somewhat urgent request

I have just heard of a possible death in the family and need to go check on some things. Can you please do your best to keep an eye on the collaboration page. I have a cousin that keeps texting me and seems to be grieving and... it's an important member of my extended family and I may be the most recent person in my extended family to have visited her and there's an old family rift she was trying to mend etc. I had been sort of on wikibreak because I did my usual thing where I do too deep a dive and burn out a bit. I am fresh back from that and answered two structural questions before hearing about this so I don't think anything is on fire over there but several personal animosities are currently being ignored because people are trying to act like grownups so please feel free to exercise your diplomatic skills as needed. Elinruby (talk) 01:07, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

@Elinruby: Sorry to hear about the personal issues; RL comes first, take the time you need. I have not been following the discussions on that page closely (despite som, and there are a lot of them. If you get this in time to give me some general pointers of particular pain points, or what you'd like me to monitor, that would help, otherwise, I'll do my best. Mathglot (talk) 02:02, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

the cousin is going to try to find out if it's trying to start thinking about a memorial for sure but I am supposed to go find the pictures of my mother with her because if she is still with us she will enjoy then and if not it may take some weight off her kids with respect to a memorial. I just posted a proposal at the page. I'll get back to you about your question but just keeping the discussion on content is the TL;DR. Elinruby (talk) 02:46, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

@Elinruby:, okay. Mathglot (talk) 03:10, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

About the photo of Bolsonaro in 2018 Brazilian general election

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

The edition war that was generated in that article would not have happened if Numero 57 had cooperated from the beginning, something that he never did, be it in that or other articles, since he never gave solid arguments to debate, only superficial comments and insults towards me as "pathetic". Using irrelevant superficial comments and insults towards me as "pathetic" is not an argument, which is what Number 57 constantly does in this or other articles, but it is much easier to agree with him despite the fact that he started the unnecessary war of edition in that article? It is much more convenient to say that I make terrible use of the edition summary and report me to an administrator so that they block me just to agree with Numero 57, what a good argument, huh?Oli (talk) 11:00, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

This comment is a duplicate of one that already exists at your Talk page; let's keep discussion in one place. Mathglot (talk) 19:19, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Moved to User talk:OliverDF § Incivility in edit summaries and edit-warring at 2018 Brazilian general election

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I think I might need your help !

 Courtesy link: Saint-Laurent-du-Maroni

Hi ! Im from the French Wikipedia, I speak English and I’ve been editing since some years on the English version. I am always trying to improve articles about French Guiana even on the French one, this French overseas region had always been neglected on Wikipedia. The problem is that a certain contributor User:ព្រះមហាក្សត្ររាជ are intentionally reversing all the edits that I’ve made and Falsely accusing me of Wikipedia:OWN and even threatening me of been blocked. So, if I’m wrong somewhere tell me please but I think I am not the only Wikipedia user who had the same issue with this certain contributor…! Can you help me fix this Problem Please ? PouLagwiyann (talk) 15:40, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

@PouLagwiyann:, I will look into this further later, if required. However, at the outset, there are several problems in connection with these 8 edits at Saint-Laurent-du-Maroni, and plenty of blame to go around:

• First of all, it is a clear case of edit warring, and it was appropriate that you received a warring notice on your Talk page. However, you are both guilty of edit warring, as it takes two to edit war, so they were pretty cocky placing a warring notice on your page, when they are just as guilty as you are. You both deserve a warring notice–but don't place one on their page, as it will just make things worse, I'll take care of that shortly.
• Secondly, it looks like this started on 14 January, and once the other user reverted you, regardless of who reverted first, you should have left the article alone and started a discussion at the Talk page about it, and there is no such discussion; instead, you both started reverting each other, through January and into February. I'm glad that you were the one to stop reverting, as the article has been stable since, but if you disagree about the current state of it, you can still raise a discussion on the Talk page.
• The accusation in this edit summary (and this one) by the other party against you of WP:OWNership is risible, and also inaccurate, and cannot be used as a defense for edit-warring on their part; that's on them.
• Your edit summary "Im from French Guiana, I know what I’m talking about" in this edit is problematic for two reasons: #1, an edit summary is not the place to talk about yourself, but rather to explain briefly how your edit improves the article, and you didn't do that; #2, per our WP:Verifiability policy, Wikipedia requires citations to reliable sources to back up all assertions in the article and your claims of living there are completely irrelevant, unverifiable, and even if you owned every building in town, it would still be irrelevant. In addition, your other reverts were notable for not having any edit summary at all, and the only time you used one, you used it incorrectly.
• And finally, the section you added at their talk page, named § About your So Called War ! was inappropriate, and did not make things better. As one would say in French, you were guilty of attiser le feu. You could have written something on their page, but that was the wrong way to go about it, because of its argumentative, non-neutral tone; English Wikipedia has plenty of user warning templates which have a neutral tone while still identifying a problem in user behavior; next time you need to alert a user about a problem in their behavior, consider using one of these templates instead, if you are unable to maintain a neutral tone in your own words.

As I said at the top, there's plenty of blame to go around, in Saint-Laurent-du-Maroni. It looks like you've had interactions with this same editor at Cayenne and Kourou, and if needed, I'll look at those later. One final note: I am familiar with fr-wiki, and the rules there are somewhat different than at en-wiki, so make sure you familiarize yourself with English Wikipedia's core policies and guidelines, as that is what applies here. Secondly, even when the basic rules are quite similar, I find that they are often simply ignored at fr-wiki, or not as seriously enforced, as they are here. So, going forward, if you have problems with this editor (or any editor) keep in mind that before you complain about the behavior of any other editor, that your own hands are clean with respect to *your* behavior, and in the case of Saint-Laurent-du-Maroni, they are not. In a nutshell: strictly observe WP:Verifiability and sourcing at en-wiki, do not edit war, and do use edit summaries strictly to explain how your edit improves the article.

I hope this was helpful to you. Do you have any further questions or comments you would like to make, either about this, or anything else at en-wiki? Also, I'm curious: how did you happen to find me? Mathglot (talk) 21:48, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for replying to me with all this advices ! Really cool that you take time to reply with all of this for me.

So, I will start a Discussion on the Talk pages of the concerned articles and see where it would go, as you suggested…!

To answer your question, I found you on some previous talk on User_talk:ព្រះមហាក្សត្ររាជ page and I saw that it wasn’t the first time that this user was participating in War editing with other Wikipedia members. So I thought contacting you was the best Idea since you already deal with him before…! PouLagwiyann (talk) 15:30, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Analyze your own behavior instead of slandering me on someone else's talk page. I changed the pictures of the Cayenne infobox on January 14, 2023, to replace some very large pictures that took lots of space, with some smaller pictures more representative of the diversity of the city [3], and you reverted my changes within 48 hours [4], despite the fact that you hadn't been active at Wikipedia in nearly 6 months [5]. I want to point that out: here is a user who does not edit Wikipedia in 6 months, and within 48 hours of my change of the pictures in the infobox, I'm reverted by that person who returns at Wikipedia just for that purpose, without even trying to engage in a discussion with me before. This sort of behavior is not conducive to polite and civil exchanges, especially when your reasons for reverting are "The Images was looking too good !" [6], or "Give valuable reason to change the picture or find a better thing to do with your life…!" [7]. I've been editing the French Guianese articles for years, I've never been confronted to such an aggressive behavior before. ព្រះមហាក្សត្ររាជ (talk) 18:02, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

@ព្រះមហាក្សត្ររាជ:, please assume good faith about Pou's intentions in their edits; your speculation about their motivation not helpful, and your comment about how when or how often they edit Wikipedia is irrelevant, they have as much right to edit the article as you do; to imply the contrary, smacks of WP:OWNership behavior. Repeating my earlier comments about the proper use of Talk pages, hopefully clearer this time:

• Article talk pages are for discussion about improving the article, and all comments about article content belong there. Please confine all of your comments about what image is preferable to the article Talk page: Talk:Saint-Laurent-du-Maroni. Please see § How to use article talk pages and § Good practices for talk pages for further guideline detail.
• User talk pages are for discussing behavioral aspects of a user's edits, and *not* for discussion of content. You appear to know this already, as you left Pou an edit warring message on their talk page yesterday. (Actually, you left three of them within one minute, but at least your use of templates guaranteed a neutral tone, so that's one positive note in this mess, I guess. On the other hand, you left your warning about edit warring while participating in an edit war consisting of these 58 back-and-forth reverts, one of the worst edit wars I've ever seen, so your hands were certainly not clean and you had no standing to accuse anybody else of edit warring after such egregious behavior. (Neither did Pou; it takes two to edit war.)

In sum: content disagreement (which image?) ⟶ article talk page. User behavioral/guideline violation issue ⟶ user talk page. Please don't mix them up; in particular, comments at the article talk page should be strictly about the article content, and if you find yourself using the word "you" in your comments, or mentioning other users, you might need to examine your wording to see if it needs to be changed. Finally, personal attacks are not permitted on at Wikipedia on any page, so please avoid words like slander; pattern of personal attacks is a good way to get your own behavior examined more closely for compliance with Wikipedia guidelines on WP:CIVILITY.

Finally, both of you: do not engage in edit-warring, please observe all guidelines about Talk page use, and maintain a neutral and collaborative tone when discussing with or about other editors. Further edit warring by either of you will land you at the Edit-warring noticeboard, and further attacks or other WP:UNCIVIL behavior (whether here on my page, or anywhere else) will likely result in warnings on your user talk page, and/or filing of an incident at the WP:Administrator's noticeboard. So, no more sniping at each other; go collaborate at the article Talk page if you want, or leave each other alone and go do something else, so everybody (me included) can get back to improving the encyclopedia. Mathglot (talk) 19:20, 10 April 2023 (UTC)