Talk:Springbar

Help with neutrality & citations

This page was declined because of its lack of neutrality and lack of independent external sources. I am somewhat perplexed by this feedback, as I have edited many other Wikipedia pages that were significantly less neutral (written more like a brochure for a business) and were even more lacking in external sources. There are certainly some claims in the article that are difficult to provide supporting evidence for, so I will remove those, and I will do my best to cite additional independent, reliable sources.

The feedback provided mentioned the article needed to be edited by someone not associated with the company. However, I know that it is OK, per Wikipedia, for someone being paid by the company (I am working as a contractor) to create a page for said company as long as they disclose it, which I have. So, I guess my question is, once I update the article to make it more neutral and to potentially include more sources, is there a way for another editor to review it first — to get an outsiders' perspective — before I resubmit? Xlea Nollmav (talk) 19:00, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Lack of concrete, usable feedback

I have submitted this page twice now and had it rejected both times. The first time, the person reviewing the article said it sounded promotional, needed to be more neutral and needed to include more citations, specifically from independent, reliable sources. I took this feedback to heart and went through with a fine-tooth comb, cleaning up the copy, cutting out large sections, re-working others, adding citations from many more independent, reliable sources (newspapers, etc.) and once I felt it aligned with the language, tone and neutrality of an encyclopedia, I resubmitted it — only to have it denied again, and this time with hardly a word as to what is wrong with it. @Greenman said only that it is "exceptionally promotional," adding "There is a reason WP:COI editing is strongly discouraged."

Discouraged is the word. Yes, I am creating this page on behalf of a client of mine, but that doesn't mean I am trying to present them in a biased, complementary or promotional manner. On the contrary, I actually want to get this page published for them — which is why I have been working hard to remove any whiffs of bias or non-neutrality. While I disagree with Greenman's determination — as I believe this reads as a typical plain-language Wikipedia post (that actually reeks less of non-neutrality than pages I've edited before) — even if I wanted to address his/her comment, I couldn't, as no concrete feedback was provided.

I understand that Conflict of Interest editing is "discouraged," but that doesn't change the fact that it is allowed. Simply making a determination based on the fact that I am being paid to create this page (which I disclosed, as the rules require) is shortsighted and wrong. Unless you can point to clear examples of where the copy is exceptionally promotional, then I see no reason for this article to not move forward.

I appreciate your time and consideration. Xlea Nollmav (talk) 02:39, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

This was discussed mostly at Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive_1183 AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 17:59, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Notability

Hi @Xlea Nollmav please provide the three best sources that meet WP:ORGCRIT, keeping in mind WP:AUD. See also WP:THREE. S0091 (talk) 20:55, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

You can use the footnote numbers rather having to cite them again here (ex. sources 1, 5 7). S0091 (talk) 21:08, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Sure. Here are what I believe are the three best sources: 1, 10 and 11. If it needs the be three different publications, then I would say 13, instead of 10. I also just found a book that mentions Springbar several times in it, but I believe it is behind a paywall — does that matter? Here is the link:

https://www.scribd.com/document/398485220/The-Tent-Book-by-E-M-Hatton-1979-Book-pdf

I appreciate your help! Xlea Nollmav (talk) 21:46, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

@Xlea Nollmav I would consider any news media from Utah local coverage. Do you have a couple that are outside of Utah? The book appears to be self-published so not a reliable source. S0091 (talk) 22:11, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

@Xlea Nollmav check Google Books. A quick search reveals it has old issues of Backpacker (magazine) which may be helpful. S0091 (talk) 22:20, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip. I found a few other links that I think could work well (see below). Let me know what you think.

https://books.google.com/books?id=Dh5jqjxIb5UC&pg=PA184&dq=springbar+tent&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiT8fmzq7b-AhXIEFkFHaIYDUU4MhDrAXoECAYQBQ#v=onepage&q=springbar%20tent&f=false

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Nightline/story?id=7679584&page=1

https://books.google.com/books?id=5sFwGxiDXVAC&pg=PA111&dq=springbar+tent&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwisuZLPqrb-AhVWFVkFHRH0Ch44KBDrAXoECAQQBQ#v=onepage&q=springbar%20tent&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=7d8DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA59&dq=springbar+tent&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiAw9HBqLb-AhUhFlkFHSrvBP8QuwV6BAgHEAY#v=onepage&q=springbar%20tent&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=MB6n9VcqVQEC&q=springbar+tent&dq=springbar+tent&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiRkOCrqbb-AhWnF1kFHXTTDPo4ChDrAXoECAUQBQ#springbar%20tent

Also, I had previously used the link below, but had removed it. Perhaps this is useful as well.

https://www.gearpatrol.com/home/a365227/springbar-canvas-tent/

I really appreciate your help! Xlea Nollmav (talk) 18:57, 19 April 2023 (UTC)