Talk:Barack Obama: Difference between revisions
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::And [[Democrat Party (epithet)]]. – [[User:Muboshgu|Muboshgu]] ([[User talk:Muboshgu#top|talk]]) 21:16, 22 April 2023 (UTC) |
::And [[Democrat Party (epithet)]]. – [[User:Muboshgu|Muboshgu]] ([[User talk:Muboshgu#top|talk]]) 21:16, 22 April 2023 (UTC) |
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:::Wikipedia, you gotta love it. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 08:25, 23 April 2023 (UTC) |
:::Wikipedia, you gotta love it. [[User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|Gråbergs Gråa Sång]] ([[User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång|talk]]) 08:25, 23 April 2023 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 2 May 2023 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Barack Obama|answered=no}} |
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[[Special:Contributions/204.28.110.78|204.28.110.78]] ([[User talk:204.28.110.78|talk]]) 15:47, 2 May 2023 (UTC) amogus fart jdskfidsajgjdg;adgjhkbsdkhafhklsdbfdhg he knows to hit the griddy while beatboxing |
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Revision as of 15:47, 2 May 2023
| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Barack Obama article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Frequently asked questions
Family and religious background Q1: Why isn't Barack Obama's Muslim heritage or education included in this article?
A1: Barack Obama was never a practitioner of Islam. His biological father having been "raised as a Muslim" but being a "confirmed atheist" by the time Obama was born is mentioned in the article. Please see this article on Snopes.com for a fairly in-depth debunking of the myth that Obama is Muslim. Barack Obama did not attend an Islamic or Muslim school while living in Indonesia age 6–10, but Roman Catholic and secular public schools. See [1], [2], [3] The sub-articles Public image of Barack Obama and Barack Obama religion conspiracy theories address this issue. Q2: The article refers to him as African American, but his mother is white and his black father was not an American. Should he be called African American, or something else ("biracial", "mixed", "Kenyan-American", "mulatto", "quadroon", etc.)?
A2: Obama himself and the media identify him, the vast majority of the time, as African American or black. African American is primarily defined as "citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black populations of Africa", a statement that accurately describes Obama and does not preclude or negate origins in the white populations of America as well. Thus we use the term African American in the introduction, and address the specifics of his parentage in the first headed section of the article. Many individuals who identify as black have varieties of ancestors from many countries who may identify with other racial or ethnic groups. See our article on race for more information on this concept. We could call him the first "biracial" candidate or the first "half black half white" candidate or the first candidate with a parent born in Africa, but Wikipedia is a tertiary source which reports what other reliable sources say, and most of those other sources say "first African American". Readers will learn more detail about his ethnic background in the article body. Q3: Why can't we use his full name outside of the lead? It's his name, isn't it?
A3: The relevant part of the Manual of Style says that outside the lead of an article on a person, that person's conventional name is the only one that's appropriate. (Thus one use of "Richard Milhous Nixon" in the lead of Richard Nixon, "Richard Nixon" thereafter.) Talk page consensus has also established this. Q4: Why is Obama referred to as "Barack Hussein Obama II" in the lead sentence rather than "Barack Hussein Obama, Jr."? Isn't "Jr." more common?
A4: Although "Jr." is typically used when a child shares the name of his or her parent, "II" is considered acceptable, as well. And in Obama's case, the usage on his birth certificate is indeed "II", and is thus the form used at the beginning of this article, per manual of style guidelines on names. Q5: Why don't we cover the claims that Obama is not a United States citizen, his birth certificate was forged, he was not born in Hawaii, he is ineligible to be President, etc?
A5: The Barack Obama article consists of an overview of major issues in the life and times of the subject. The controversy over his eligibility, citizenship, birth certificate etc is currently a fairly minor issue in overall terms, and has had no significant legal or mainstream political impact. It is therefore not currently appropriate for inclusion in an overview article. These claims are covered separately in Barack Obama citizenship conspiracy theories. Controversies, praise, and criticism Q6: Why isn't there a criticisms/controversies section?
A6: Because a section dedicated to criticisms and controversies is no more appropriate than a section dedicated solely to praise and is an indication of a poorly written article. Criticisms/controversies/praises should be worked into the existing prose of the article, per the Criticism essay. Q7: Why isn't a certain controversy/criticism/praise included in this article?
A7: Wikipedia's Biography of living persons policy says that "[c]riticism and praise of the subject should be represented if it is relevant to the subject's notability and can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, and so long as the material is written in a manner that does not overwhelm the article or appear to take sides; it needs to be presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a neutral, encyclopedic tone." Criticism or praise that cannot be reliably sourced cannot be placed in a biography. Also, including everything about Obama in a single article would exceed Wikipedia's article size restrictions. A number of sub-articles have been created and some controversies/criticisms/praises have been summarized here or been left out of this article altogether, but are covered in some detail in the sub-articles. Q8: But this controversy/criticism/praise is all over the news right now! It should be covered in detail in the main article, not buried in a sub-article!
A8: Wikipedia articles should avoid giving undue weight to something just because it is in the news right now. If you feel that the criticism/controversy/praise is not being given enough weight in this article, you can try to start a discussion on the talk page about giving it more. See WP:BRD. Q9: This article needs much more (or much less) criticism/controversy.
A9: Please try to assume good faith. Like all articles on Wikipedia, this article is a work in progress so it is possible for biases to exist at any point in time. If you see a bias that you wish to address, you are more than welcome to start a new discussion, or join in an existing discussion, but please be ready to provide sources to support your viewpoint and try to keep your comments civil. Starting off your discussion by accusing the editors of this article of having a bias is the quickest way to get your comment ignored. Talk and article mechanics Q10: This article is over 275kb long, and the article size guideline says that it should be broken up into sub-articles. Why hasn't this happened?
A10: The restriction mentioned in WP:SIZE is 60kB of readable prose, not the byte count you see when you open the page for editing. As of May 11, 2016, this article had about 10,570 words of readable prose (65 kB according to prosesize tool), only slightly above the guideline. The rest is mainly citations and invisible comments, which do not count towards the limit. Q11: I notice this FAQ mentions starting discussions or joining in on existing discussions a lot. If Wikipedia is supposed to be the encyclopedia anyone can edit, shouldn't I just be bold and fix any biases that I see in the article?
A11: It is true that Wikipedia is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit and no one needs the permission of other editors of this article to make changes to it. But Wikipedia policy is that, "While the consensus process does not require posting to the discussion page, it can be useful and is encouraged." This article attracts editors that have very strong opinions about Obama (positive and negative) and these editors have different opinions about what should and should not be in the article, including differences as to appropriate level of detail. As a result of this it may be helpful, as a way to avoid content disputes, to seek consensus before adding contentious material to or removing it from the article. Q12: The article/talk page has been vandalized! Why hasn't anyone fixed this?
A12: Many editors watch this article, and it is unlikely that vandalism would remain unnoticed for long. It is possible that you are viewing a cached result of the article; If so, try bypassing your cache. Q13: Why are so many discussions closed so quickly?
A13: Swift closure is common for topics that have already been discussed repeatedly, topics pushing fringe theories, and topics that would lead to violations of Wikipedia's policy concerning biographies of living persons, because of their disruptive nature and the unlikelihood that consensus to include the material will arise from the new discussion. In those cases, editors are encouraged to read this FAQ for examples of such common topics. Q14: I added new content to the article, but it was removed!
A14: Double-check that your content addition is not sourced to an opinion blog, editorial, or non-mainstream news source. Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living persons states, in part, "Material about living persons must be sourced very carefully. Without reliable third-party sources, it may include original research and unverifiable statements, and could lead to libel claims." Sources of information must be of a very high quality for biographies. While this does not result in an outright ban of all blogs and opinion pieces, most of them are regarded as questionable. Inflammatory or potentially libelous content cited to a questionable source will be removed immediately without discussion. Q15: I disagree with the policies and content guidelines that prevent my proposed content from being added to the article.
A15: That's understandable. Wikipedia is a work in progress. If you do not approve of a policy cited in the removal of content, it's possible to change it. Making cogent, logical arguments on the policy's talk page is likely to result in a positive alteration. This is highly encouraged. However, this talk page is not the appropriate place to dispute the wording used in policies and guidelines. If you disagree with the interpretation of a policy or guideline, there is also recourse: Dispute resolution. Using the dispute resolution process prevents edit wars, and is encouraged. Q16: I saw someone start a discussion on a topic raised by a blog/opinion piece, and it was reverted!
A16: Unfortunately, due to its high profile, this talk page sees a lot of attempts to argue for policy- and guideline-violating content – sometimes the same violations many times a day. These are regarded as disruptive, as outlined above. Consensus can change; material previously determined to be unacceptable may become acceptable. But it becomes disruptive and exhausting when single-purpose accounts raise the same subject(s) repeatedly in the apparent hopes of overcoming significant objections by other editors. Editors have reached a consensus for dealing with this behavior:
Other Q17: Why aren't the 2008 and 2012 presidential campaigns covered in more detail?
A17: They are, in sub-articles called Barack Obama 2008 presidential campaign and Barack Obama 2012 presidential campaign. Things that are notable in the context of the presidential campaigns, but are of minimal notability to Barack Obama's overall biography, belong in the sub-articles. Campaign stops, the presidential debates, and the back-and-forth accusations and claims of the campaigns can all be found there. |
| This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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1st black president
Obama was the first black president. 192.68.163.171 (talk) 19:54, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
- I think the second sentence of the lead,
Obama, a member of the Democratic Party, was the first African-American president of the United States
, pretty well covers that angle, don't you? General Ization Talk 20:08, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
Split article for post-presidency?
Is Obama's post-presidency notable enough for a split article? 2.97.212.181 (talk) 11:35, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
- I think that's a good idea. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:31, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
- I disagree. The section's too short to warrant a split article. Wow (talk) 07:30, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
- It is to some extent kept short per WP:PROPORTION. In a separate article, the subject would have more room to run. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:22, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
- I see what you're talking about now, but what would you include in a separate article on his post-presidency? Wow (talk) 01:46, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
- Well, take for example the Obama/Springsteen podcast. It wouldn't be that hard to turn that section into a paragraph or two.[4] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:45, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
- I see what you're talking about now, but what would you include in a separate article on his post-presidency? Wow (talk) 01:46, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
- It is to some extent kept short per WP:PROPORTION. In a separate article, the subject would have more room to run. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:22, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
- I disagree. The section's too short to warrant a split article. Wow (talk) 07:30, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
Topic about Barack Obama's age.
I think you are wrong about his age. He is only 62 years old not 61 years old. He was born in 1961, and now I found his age in 2023 is 62 years old. Please fix his age. JimiDragon (talk) 19:23, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
- JimiDragon, Obama was born in August 1961, so he turns 62 this coming August. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:24, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
- Oh, are you sure? :think: JimiDragon (talk) 19:26, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
- Yes we are sure. He's 61 till his birthday in August. Iamreallygoodatcheckers talk 19:45, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
- Alright, I'll try to remember his age. I thought he is 62 years old, nah, he is only 61 years old. :) Thanks. :heart: JimiDragon (talk) 08:33, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- Yes we are sure. He's 61 till his birthday in August. Iamreallygoodatcheckers talk 19:45, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
- Oh, are you sure? :think: JimiDragon (talk) 19:26, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 22 April 2023
 | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Obama was a member of the Democrat Party, not democratic. The word democratic is an adjective pertaining to or of the nature of democracy or a democracy. 2601:205:380:5A10:1037:DA00:C529:F681 (talk) 20:42, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
- See WP:COMMONNAME. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:00, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
Not done: It is Democratic Party. See Democratic_Party_(United_States) RudolfRed (talk) 21:01, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
- And Democrat Party (epithet). – Muboshgu (talk) 21:16, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
- Wikipedia, you gotta love it. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:25, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
- And Democrat Party (epithet). – Muboshgu (talk) 21:16, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 2 May 2023
 | It is requested that an edit be made to the semi-protected article at Barack Obama. (edit · history · last · links · protection log)
This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".
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204.28.110.78 (talk) 15:47, 2 May 2023 (UTC) amogus fart jdskfidsajgjdg;adgjhkbsdkhafhklsdbfdhg he knows to hit the griddy while beatboxing
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