Talk:City of Lover

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:33, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that the TV broadcast of the Taylor Swift concert City of Lover only included half the set list of the original concert? Source: "But the actual Olympia concert was 16 songs long, with eight songs from her ample catalog" Philadelphia Inquirer

• Reviewed: Borgo Santo Spirito

Created/expanded by HĐ (talk). Self-nominated at 01:26, 10 March 2021 (UTC).

• New enough and long enough. QPQ present. Hook fact is interesting, in article and backed up by sourcing. @HĐ: The paragraph "To celebrate the album's release..." needs a paragraph-ending inline citation. My only other suggestion is that the sentence "broadcast on American Broadcasting Company (ABC)" should probably just read "broadcast on ABC in the United States"; it's an unusual case where the common name can't be the article title, and it would read better that way. Ping me when you add the one citation for a tick. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 03:59, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

• @Sammi Brie: Thank you for the review. The source for "To celebrate..." is the NME source (ref #7). I have revised to ABC, as you recommended. HĐ (talk) 01:27, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

• @HĐ: It's this section that needs citing, and I know this is a bit nitpicky: "after the planned Lover Fest concert tour was canceled due to the COVID-19 pandemic." Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 01:46, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

• Thank you for the clarification. I have added a ref for that. HĐ (talk) 03:07, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

• Now we're talking. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 04:06, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Italicize

Isn't the title supposed to be written in italics? MOS:ITALICTITLE specifically says that Television and radio programs, specials, shows, series and serials, are written in italics. Since City of Lover was aired as a television special, I think it need to be italicized. Just wanna hear anyone's thoughts on this.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:City of Lover/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Pseud 14 (talk · contribs) 17:56, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

I will review in the next couple days. My first dabble within the GAN review space (so apologies if it will be a bit slow). Ping me if I don't get to it a week from now. Hope all is well. Pseud 14 (talk) 17:56, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for taking up this review, Pseud 14. Please ping me once you finish reviewing and I'd try to resolve within 1 week, though there might be some delay due to my hectic schedule lately. Best, Ippantekina (talk) 15:27, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• Concert type should be one-off concert instead of one-day. Both in the lead and infoxbox to be consistent with other one-off concert articles.
• The avoid confusion, number of shows should just be listed as 1 — Europe can be removed since location info already precedes that.
• Remove 1 played, as this likely refers to the aired television special for the same concert.
• I think we can also remove duration for the TV special, as it is covered in the body, and since this is the article for the concert.
• The first para is only two sentences long; maybe merge it with the 2nd para. While not an absolute rule, general guidelines per MOS:LEADLENGTH is 2 para for articles with fewer than 15K characters.
• with tens of thousands of seats is a bit informal. Perhaps rephrase?

Background

• free-spirited production Swift's songwriting → free-spirited production and Swift's songwriting...
• Swift held the City of Lover concert, a one-off concert at the → Swift held City of Lover, a one-off concert... -- suggest taking out the first instance of concert, as City of Lover itself refers to the concert.
• were no widespread promotional campaigns → extensive promotional campaigns is much better IMO
• The City of Lover concert was the only concert → City of Lover was the only concert -- drop first instance of concert per above.
• The City of Lover concert marked Swift's first concert -- same as above
• She had also held a small performance → She previously held a small performance

Television and music releases

• ran for a length of 42 minutes → ran for 42 minutes

Reception

• Upon completion, the City of Lover concert received positive feedback → Upon completion, City of Lover received positive feedback
• to play the 2,000-seat Olympia → to play at the 2,000-seat Olympia
• Swift had had limited commercial success -- removed duplicated had
• she had prioritized the English-speaking → she prioritized the English-speaking
• behind-the-scene → behind-the-scenes conception -- suggest linking
• Swift only included the Lover songs was the result of the ongoing masters controversy → Swift only included the Lover songs as a result of the ongoing masters controversy

Set list

• Good

References

• Copyvio score at 35.5% but seems to be for use one of quote, which is acceptable.

Media

• File:City of Lover (ABC Special) by Taylor Swift.png - with Non-free FUR - OK
• File:The lobby of L'Olympia in Paris.jpg - Creative Commons license - OK

Final comments and verdict

•  On hold @Ippantekina: I have finished my review and have put this on hold until after you address my comments; nice work on this! -- Pseud 14 (talk) 22:18, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

  @Pseud 14: thanks again for taking up the review. I have addressed everything, and also trimmed down the quote to lower the copyvio score. Cheers, Ippantekina (talk) 16:04, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

  Thank you for your work. Passing. Pseud 14 (talk) 16:33, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

Lover (Live from Paris)

Should the limited-edition LP have its own article or be a section of this (City of Lover) article? It qualifies WP:N. ℛonherry☘ 15:40, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

I think it should be a part of the City of Lover article just like the long pond studio sessions live album. ℛonherry☘ 15:42, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

I agree. It should be merged. The entirely different article makes it seem likes it's a truly standalone album, but it's even less than standalone than folklore LPSS. It wasn't really an "album" on its own. 70.49.189.175 (talk) 19:13, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Merger proposal with Lover (Live from Paris)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

I propose merging Lover (Live from Paris) with this article. The live album is a limited-release and per WP:NALBUM it does not stand out in terms of notability. Apart from chart positions, all other information (track list, background of the concert) are possibly WP:CFORK. That whole article can be safely incorporated as a section here. Ippantekina (talk) 02:38, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

• Support. I agree. ℛonherry☘ 18:23, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose. It's currently a 15 KB article. It stands on its own just fine. Ss112 04:49, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

  CFORK applies to the "Background" and "Track listing" (can be merged with "Set list") sections. Ippantekina (talk) 09:54, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

  If that's all the article consisted of, I'd agree with you, but there's more there than that. There's a pronounced difference between the track listing and set list here (the former lists writers and track lengths, and in this case, vinyl sides), so I don't see how that would be comfortably merged, especially considering the set list includes songs not from Lover. Ronherry added the background section, not me. I wouldn't care if it was there or not. I don't find this similar to Folklore: The Long Pond Studio Sessions, which had a live album that received very little coverage, was only issued digitally and didn't chart. That merge made/makes sense but this album has clearly achieved more on its own, independent of its 2019 source material. Ss112 15:59, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

  This LP release has undoubtedly charted, but that alone I'm afraid is insufficient for a standalone article, especially one that is extendable to meet higher quality status i.e. GA. Ippantekina (talk) 08:43, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

  You can think so all you like, but charting is not all it has achieved. It was released years after the concert. It's not contemporaneous to it and stands on its own merits. There's still been no suggestion as to how the set list and track list (with its vinyl sides) could be merged in a way that isn't some formatting mishap, and I don't believe they could be. Ss112 11:07, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose I agree with Ss112. Tree Critter (talk) 11:48, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
• Support. I agree with Ippantekina's proposition. ItsMarkWbu (talk) 01:14, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
• Support. Although the actual City of Lover concert setlist contained songs from multiple Taylor Swift albums, both the TV special and the Lover (Live from Paris) LP only contain songs from Lover. Therefore, I believe that Lover (Live from Paris) should be treated as the soundtrack to City of Lover, and the articles should be merged. Furthermore, the live tracks have been on streaming services since the TV special aired but are not grouped as an album, leading me to believe that the LP is more of a collector's item than a standalone live album in Swift's discography. --Damage Ensues (talk) 18:36, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Oppose. I agree with Ss112. Notsammyray (talk) 13:25, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Weak Oppose: I feel that the article is fine in its own right and has enough new information to have it stand out as its own article, however it wouldn't be a bad idea to make it a new section in the original article. I'm 50/50 on it and I feel it'd be better to keep it as-is, but moving the new information regarding the release of the LP itself to a section in the main article could work as well. AverageLogic (talk) 15:59, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

• Support, and I agree with Damage Ensues's arguments. Additional note: I don't think it's accurate to indicate this as a "2023" release, plus there's an official "Live from Paris" Spotify playlist from May 2020 (when the tracks were released) with the exact tracklist of the "2023" live album. Theknine2 (talk) 08:35, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

• Support merge, excluding the tracklist because it did not receive any significant coverage in terms of critical reviews or analysis. Heartfox (talk) 22:37, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support. There's really no unique information for this to stand on its own, the only thing that's unique and relevant to the LP is the Commercial performance. Other than that, it's just info about City of Lover again.--Giorgio Zeniquel (talk) 18:39, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Oppose; Agree with Ss112 Tantomile (talk) 02:29, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose — I'm agreeing with Ss112. — VAUGHAN J. (TALK) 03:47, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.