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June 12

Vegetable soup

Why adding oil on vegetable soup, become spicy? 2001:B07:6442:8903:54D7:12D0:78CB:5E92 (talk) 15:01, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Many recipes start with the cook sauteing chopped onions, carrots, possibly celery and some garlic, which gives them more flavour. This is generally done using a few tablespoons of vegetable oil. (Some other recipes start with mirepoix, which is more often prepared with butter, but again the purpose is to make the veggies tastier.) In some cuisines hot spicy oil may be added to the soup typically just before serving, like in this recipe for Turkish lentil soup, which says this is done to "add richness", or even only after the soup has been ladled into the serving bowls.  --Lambiam 18:55, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

June 13

Which way is up?

No, I'm not writing this from the International Space Station, and neither am I having a severe case of vertigo or some kind of metaphysical quandary involving the definitions of spatial directions -- my real and completely down-to-earth (in every sense of the word) question is: on railroads (railways?) in Great Britain, does "up" mean away from London and "down" toward London, or is it the other way around? 2601:646:9882:46E0:6998:C31A:9514:BAA4 (talk) 03:04, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

We've got this! See Rail directions#Up_and_down. HiLo48 (talk) 03:22, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! Here in the USA I'm used to eastbound and westbound, hence the confusion! 2601:646:9882:46E0:6CB4:4C13:4721:367B (talk) 06:19, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Does the USA not have any northbound and southbound trains? HiLo48 (talk) 06:30, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

We certainly do, but I don't think "up" or "down" are in such formal usage as compared with the Brits. More likely to just say "inbound" or "outbound". The "up" / "down" does make sense, though. The first line of "It's a Long Way to Tipperary" is "Up to mighty London came an Irish man one day..." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:45, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Heard some years ago on Tyneside (from a BR employee): "I'm going down to London on the 05:30 up train". Generally Southerners and railways go up to London, from the English Midlands north people go "down" to London, see a map for the reason why! Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:02, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

In the USA, trains are not as common. We have the Interstate system as a reference. So, we have the cardinal directions, North, East, South, and West. But, that is not exactly how they are referenced on the navigations signs. They will have the highway number, the direction, and a location of interest. For example, a sign might say "I-70 East St. Louis." Therefore, the use of up and down for going into a city or away from a city is not as common. I've ridden the subway in Chicago, New York and DC. My memory is that they all refer to inbound and outbound, not up and down. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 11:19, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

We do, but we don't use "up" and "down" to refer to northbound or southbound trains. Can't speak for usage by rail enthusiasts or professionals.

For metro systems within a city, we may use "uptown"/"downtown", which tend to correspond to north/south; for lines that run east/west (and for some north/south lines) we'll refer to them by the area of the city they're headed to (in NYC, for instance, a "Queens-bound" or "Manhattan-bound" train). For commuter trains centered on a single major city/urban center, we'll often use "inbound" or "outbound". For intercity rail (ex: on Amtrak's Northeast Corridor service), we generally use cardinal compass directions in colloquial usage because most of our intercity rail passes through several major cities of roughly equal importance, or we may use the name of the city with the terminal station it's heading towards. -- Avocado (talk) 15:05, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes. Similar to the interstate system, landmark locations are used. Anecdote: When I was 16, I flew into Kansas City and had to go to Arrowhead Stadium. My dad was worried I would get lost, so he told me that if I see a sign for St. Louis, pull over, find a phone, and call him. Because I-435 was new, the signage was not complete. As I approached I-70, the sign said "Next Exit: St. Louis." What it would most likely say later was "Next Exit: I-70 East, St. Louis." As it turned out, getting to the stadium was no problem. Finding the entrance I needed took ages. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 16:36, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

The use of "up" and "down" described in that article for railways in Britain is now mostly technical, but formerly it was in common use. In 19th and early 20th century books it is common to see people referring to "the down train" or "the up train", but if you used those phrases now, I think most people would look at you blankly. ColinFine (talk) 09:11, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

In Oxford in the 1960s, the exit from the "down" (west) platform was closed to save money on ticket collectors. Returning commuters had to use the subway (later replaced by a bridge) where they would encounter a ticket collector who was so aggressive and apparently perpetually drunk that comments were made in the local newspaper. He was later sacked. Buses were coded "L" or "H" according to whether they could pass under the Oxford and Cowley station bridges. A notice on the platform of "H" buses reminded conductors "Do not allow your driver to pass under Oxford or Cowley station bridges." The number 1 route used "H" vehicles and the destination blind westbound read "STATION" because it couldn't go any further. Late at night the blinds on all routes bore the one word "GARAGE." A friend was travelling on the top deck of an "H" bus which attempted the manoevre - she experienced the "tin opener effect" but escaped unharmed. In Pakistan the "up" and "down" classification is more logical - "up" trains travel to a higher altitude and "down" trains to a lower [1]. In Oxford of course, as in other universities, new students go "up" and when they leave they go "down". 2A00:23C6:2417:3101:CD7D:9961:DB38:71A (talk) 11:44, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

How is this anecdote relevant to the question? ColinFine (talk) 21:51, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

It somewhat relates, but it has its ups and downs. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:41, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Sir, you have tasted two whole worms; you have hissed all my mystery lectures and been caught fighting a liar in the quad; you will leave Oxford by the next town drain. Wikiquote:Spoonerisms

Alansplodge (talk) 15:06, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

That last one might have been intentional. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:48, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

The whole sentence is deliberately made up.  --Lambiam 09:55, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

At least 99.999999999% of all sentences are deliberately made up. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:19, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

[un-indent] Interesting discussion, everyone! And yes, we Americans do have northbound and southbound trains (New York-Albany, for example), but they're not as common, and since most railroads have at least one east-west line, it's common practice to use that as a reference even if the main trunk line is north-south! So, a related question: if in Great Britain "up" means toward a major city, then on the North Western Railway (which, per the founder thereof, connects to The Other Railway at Barrow-in-Furness), would "up" mean toward Barrow-in-Furness, or would it mean toward Tidmouth, or would this be completely up to Sir Topham Hatt to decide? 2601:646:9882:46E0:7D3B:73DF:F255:8C8D (talk) 08:06, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Well it would only affect the Main Line, for all other lines "up" would be towards the junction (or interchange where there is a break of gauge) with the main line. Tidmouth is only the largest town, Suddery is the capital. "Up" towards Suddery makes no sense (both the Brendam Bay branch line and the Main Line would have changes of "slope" halfway along), so one would assume "up" will be towards Vicarstown thence Barrow-in-Furness and on towards London. All IMHO of course! Martin of Sheffield (talk) 08:48, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

June 14

Share of informally employed by country of the world

Hello, where is the data on the share of informally employed in all countries of the world in dynamics by year from as early a period as possible? Thank you in advance. Vyacheslav84 (talk) 10:44, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Your question makes no sense. What do you mean by "informally employed" or "dynamics"? Anyway you might like to start by referring to Employment-to-population_ratio#Employment-to-population_ratio_in_the_world and follow relevant links from there. Shantavira|^{feed me} 13:17, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Informal employment redirects to Informal economy. See also Gig worker and Precariat.  --Lambiam 22:00, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

You should dig around this page from the International Labor Organization and see if you can find what you're looking for. Xuxl (talk) 14:17, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Note that the definition has not been consistently applied the same way in different countries and has been subject to revision and refinement, which may make comparisons somewhat iffy.  --Lambiam 22:13, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much, I'll take a look! --Vyacheslav84 (talk) 18:49, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Bear in mind that the concept of informal employment includes the very strong likelihood that such employment is undocumented (no tax paid, no insurance), and hence outside of statistical databases. DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 06:06, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

The ILO is aware of the issue, which is why they have issued an extensive statistical manual on "Measuring Informality".  --Lambiam 08:31, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much, I'll take a look! --Vyacheslav84 (talk) 18:47, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

June 15

Are these part of UK?

Are UK overseas territories, such as Cayman Islands, Turks and Caicos Islands and Pitcairn part of the United Kingdom, like Martinique, Guadeloupe, Reunion, Mayotte and French Guiana are part of France? I don't like that the flags of the five aforementioned French overseas departements have no official status, unlike UK overseas territories flags. Are there any instances of French overseas departments' flags shown with theeitories' names in English Wikipedia rather than French flag. I also don't like that the overseas departements are too closely tied with France. --40bus (talk) 20:56, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

@40bus: The difference is in your post, overseas territories versus overseas departments. Overseas departments and regions of France says: "They have exactly the same status as mainland France's regions and departments." It's like Hawaii which is one of 50 US states with exactly the same status as the 49 mainland states. A French overseas collectivity has a different status. The British Overseas Territories "do not form part of the United Kingdom itself". PrimeHunter (talk) 21:12, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Since the OP doesn't like it, where should they go to complain? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:16, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

The government of France. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:45, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

I don't like that the residents of UK overseas territories are not allowed to vote in the UK general elections and cannot freely relocate to Great Britain and take a job there. The residents of the overseas regions of France can vote in the legislative elections in France and can freely move to mainland France.  --Lambiam 09:07, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Since 2002 almost all British Overseas Territories citizen also hold British citizenship and so do have the right to live and work in the UK. The right is not, however, reciprocal. DuncanHill (talk) 09:21, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

The advantage of the British over the French system is that territories can decide to become independant whenever they want; for example Belize which was granted independence in 1981. Gibraltar is a special case; it can only choose to remain British or be returned to Spain because of the terms of the Treaty of Utrecht (in a 2002 referendum, 99% of Gibraltarians voted to stay British). Alansplodge (talk) 21:25, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

June 17

Check the source

Good afternoon! In the article https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00172091 says "This hypothesis has a longish history, dating back at least to Leibenstein (1957)." and "Leibenstein H (1957) Economic backwardness and economic growth. Wiley, New York". How do you check the existence of these theses in that source, if it is not on the Internet? Thank you in advance. Vyacheslav84 (talk) 08:40, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

This book? (You can search it without borrowing it.) I don't know what I'd do, if it wasn't on the internet. In principle there are libraries of physical books and librarians who could be convinced to check things for you, if you wanted to go to the trouble of contacting them. That's probably the way. Or another option would be to buy an old copy and resell it later, but this requires a certain dedication to checking facts. I see the page you provided also has a link to Google Scholar.

One quote from the book:

We distinguish among three types of utility to be derived from an additional birth and two types of cost. The types of utility are: (1) the utility to be derived from the child as a "consumption good," namely, as a source of personal pleasure to the parents; (2) the utility to be derived from the child as a productive agent, that is, at some point the child may be expected to enter the labor force and contribute to family income; and (3) the utility derived from the prospective child as a potential source of security, either in old age or otherwise.

There's more like this on subsequent pages. I recommend a search for "old age" (in quotes).  Card Zero  (talk) 12:01, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Depending on where you live you may also have the option to lend it through your library even if they do not themselves have a copy. In some countries public libraries cooperate through a system where one library can request a book from another library for a limited time. You have to pay a fee and it may take a few days (or even weeks depending on availability), but it may still be cheaper than to buy the book. Some libraries also offer to send you a scan or copy of short sections of books for a fee; as with the first option you usually have to be a member/user of a different library in the same system.

Also, Wikipedia has a system where volunteers with access to good libraries help other users to get sources they need for their work on Wikipedia articles: WP:WikiProject_Resource_Exchange/Resource_Request-- Random person no 362478479 (talk) 13:55, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Small 'inconsistency'

Hello. If you look at the link on the page below, where the nationality of people born in the UK is described, you can read before the 'breakdown' of the three constituent Nations, that most people of white ethnicity born in Britain prefer to put their national identity first despite being British citizens. However, I want to focus on England alone; if most white people call themselves 'English', why under the heading of England alone is everything 'turned on its head', so that most people tend to call themselves British instead of English? Perhaps the white population is not taken into account or is it in the minority in that particular context? Thank you very much. http://projectbritain.com/nationality.htm 93.41.98.58 (talk) 19:58, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

First let's be clear, this is the work of one Mandy Barrow of Woodlands Junior School. Barrow may be an expert, or may just be someone trying to help 6 year-olds out; whatever the case, the site has no relationship with Wikipedia. Mathematically her claims are just possible. Of the 60 million living on the island, "most" could be as little as 31 million. If all the Scots and Welsh prefer Scottish and Welsh, then than would mean 25 million English prefer "English" and 31 million "British". As I said, mathematically possible but absolutely no authoritative sources are quoted and the "facts" are dubious in the extreme. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 20:35, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

National identity, England and Wales: Census 2021 from the Office for National Statistics says:

In England:

*15.3% of people selected an "English" only identity (a decrease from 60.4% in 2011)

*56.8% of people selected a "British" only identity (an increase from 19.2% in 2011)

*72.1% of people (40.7 million) selected either an "English" only or "British" only identity (a decrease from 79.6%, or 42.2 million, in 2011)

*14.3% of people selected both "English" and "British" identity (an increase from 9.1% in 2011)

It suggests that the decrease in those identifying as "English" only, might have been because "British" had been moved to the top of the list on the census form issued in England. Make of that what you will.

However, the assertion that "most people of white ethnicity born in Britain prefer to put their national identity first" is obviously just plain wrong.Alansplodge (talk) 21:26, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

No Sex Please, We're British. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:27, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Package shipping

I want to ship a 15 pound box (containing mostly clothes) from California to New York. It is not fragile and delivery is not urgent. The contents won't fit in a USPS flat rate package ($22.80) and the online price calculators for random boxes that weight at USPS, UPS Ground, Fedex etc. are all $60+. That seems pretty crazy since I can get a plane ticket for around $120 with a bit of advance planning. Any suggestions of a cheaper way to ship? Greyhound apparently stopped doing package delivery a year or so ago. USPS Media Mail would be around $13. This box doesn't qualify as media, but that rate shows how gouged the other prices are. Thanks for any ideas. 2601:644:8500:C9F0:0:0:0:38B4 (talk) 21:53, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Exact destination and package size will determine your cost. I just did a quote check at ups.com for a medium size package to Buffalo NY from Beverly Hills CA and it is showing $18.15 for ground shipping. This is for the flat rate shipping that is up to 50 pounds. Going to a larger box is $24.55. It likely varies depending on the source and destination address, so you may just want to talk to someone there on the phone directly to get some assistance. RudolfRed (talk) 22:45, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes, the large flat rate box is about 0.5 cubic foot which is too small for these bulky clothes. Alternatives seem to cost a fortune. I have indeed been using shipping calculators that take the src and dst addresses, weight, and dimensions. I haven't talked to anyone on the phone yet but I guess I can try. I was hoping for "try XYZ discount shipping at [url]" or something like that. I know big online stores can't pay nearly as much for shipping as USPS/UPS/etc claim to charge. 2601:644:8500:C9F0:0:0:0:38B4 (talk) 23:51, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Added: this looks promising, 1 cubic foot for $26.05. This didn't show up through normal navigation on the UPS site or their rate calculator. I found a mention of it through a wider web search. I think I can pack the stuff I want to send into 1 cubic foot. 2601:644:8500:C9F0:0:0:0:38B4 (talk) 00:24, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

See if splitting it into multiple smaller packages is cheaper. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 04:55, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

The comparison with a plane ticket is somewhat flawed: with a bit of advance planning, your ticket will be cheaper than average. At $120, it's barely enough to cover the fuel cost (around 100 litres/passenger). You are self-loading cargo, your package isn't. Last mile delivery is also quite labour intensive. The driver of the van with medium packages spends several minutes handling your package only. A smaller package (as suggested above) may put it in a different van, handling far more packages per hour. PiusImpavidus (talk) 10:16, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

June 18

Burger King doesn't sell regular cheeseburgers and hamburgers separately now?

Is this a well-known thing, or is my local BK just being weird? The only way to get your basic hamburger or cheeseburger is as part of a kids' meal - they said they don't sell them separately any more! Seriously - they actually have them in stock but straight up refused to sell me one on its own the other day. Utterly bizarre. Iloveparrots (talk) 16:19, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Probably depends on your country/region/franchise. Still on the menu and available in the UK. Nanonic (talk) 16:37, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

If they're jerking you around, ask for the manager, and tell them you'll spend your money at McDonald's henceforth. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:26, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

I don't think the staff member was messing with me for the sake of it - she said that there wasn't even an entry on the till system for a single basic cheeseburger and therefore couldn't sell me one. Very weird. Iloveparrots (talk) 20:25, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Burger King May Have Secretly Discontinued These Menu Items (March 2022) describes the deletion of several items (mostly salad) from US Burger King menues, but no mention of regular hamburgers. Alansplodge (talk) 21:08, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Have you tried any other BK's in your region? Maybe it's just that one store. Years ago, McD's used to sell what was called a "double cheeseburger". They eventually took it off the menu so they could promote Quarter Pounders and Big Macs and such. But you could still get a double cheeseburger. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:36, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

You can order double cheeseburgers and double hamburgers on Canadian order kiosks. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:44, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

June 19

Color conversion formula with respect to sea temperature.

The climate chapters of some articles have templates for sea temperature, for example New York City, Detroit, and Tromsø, Norway. But I don't know what is the formula for converting the input temperature value to the output color value? Fumikas Sagisavas (talk) 04:01, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Suspicion of Josef Mengele's alleged death

Mengele's name was mentioned several times during the Nuremberg trials in the mid-1940s, but the Allied forces believed that he was probably already dead. Irene Mengele and the family in Günzburg also alleged that he had died. Working in West Germany, Nazi hunters Simon Wiesenthal and Hermann Langbein collected information from witnesses about Mengele's wartime activities. In a search of the public records, Langbein discovered Mengele's divorce papers, which listed an address in Buenos Aires.

This whole story sounds odd to me. Why would the allied forces have assumed he was dead? Viriditas (talk) 08:44, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Have you followed up the citation in the article and read the reference work to which the statement is sourced? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 46.65.228.117 (talk) 09:22, 19 June 2023 (UTC)