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July 12

Historical mustache question

Hello. I was reading the article of the former Prime Minister of Iraq Hikmat Sulayman and I noticed the strange shape of his mustache. Any ideas why he would have his mustache in such shape? I know some cultural or religious traditions sometimes trim facial hair in certain fashion and I was wondering if this is the case. Notice that his colleague, general Bakr Sidqi also had it that way. I appreciate any answer. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 04:09, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Thinker78, we have an article Toothbrush moustache discussing the style associated especially with Adolph Hitler. That article does not discuss Iraq, but these were right wing Iraqi nationalist politicians of the 1930s. Perhaps they were emulating the facial hair of the German dictator, although I do not know for sure. Cullen328 (talk) 06:12, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Cullen328 I'm pretty sure I've seen you use this "Adolph" spelling before. I'm curious why? Of course the particular individual involved is unsympathetic, but that doesn't seem to be a reason to change his name. Older British authors used to "translate" foreign names into English, but that doesn't seem to be common in modern American English, at least when the source language uses the Latin alphabet. --Trovatore (talk) 18:07, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

People I've known and who were young in the thirties were qualifying the type as 'seductive' (various shapes are also considered as seductive). The Globe and Mail (Canada), throught the word of their writer Ian Brown, are using the term 'ultra-competitive' [2] when describing John H. Boyd[3], The Globe first full time staff photographer, who was wearing that type of mustache. It can be put it comparison with the qualification of Bakr Sidqi as "the best commander in the Iraqi army and the most efficient one". Coincidentaly in the Pieds Nickelés comics from 1908 and on, "Filochard" is the one of the three anarchists who is in effect the most concretely active. --Askedonty (talk) 19:25, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Charlie Chaplin wannabes. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:08, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

The Third Reich and the Palestine Question p. 183 says that after the 1936 coup, Sulayman's new government sought closer ties with Nazi Germany (the preview annoyingly cuts out after that). Alansplodge (talk) 17:50, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Don't know much about the 1930s, but in 1941 the 1941 Iraqi coup d'état and the Farhud occurred. AnonMoos (talk) 19:48, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

F. Roberts Johnson

When did the cartoonist and illustrator F. Roberts Johnson (active 1928; 1930s at least; see d:Q120593948) die? What did the initial stand for? Other biographical detail and sources welcome too, please. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:07, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Frederick? 1900-1986. [4]
Sleigh (talk) 15:08, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

That's him, thank you. Your Google-foo must be better than mine. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:41, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

 This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:41, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

The Holocaust: Bald or short-haired women

During the Holocaust, did female Jewish inmates have their heads shaven bald or have thier hairs cut very short? 81.152.221.74 (talk) 18:40, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Shaved with clippers. I think they usually didn't shave them cleanly with a razor. And of course the hairs grew back (on those who weren't immediately killed). -- Random person no 362478479 (talk) 18:59, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Also this was not just done with females, men's heads were shaved to. Officially for reasons of hygiene (lice etc). -- Random person no 362478479 (talk) 19:00, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Auschwitz I material proofs of crimes 05

Apparently Jewish women wore their hair long and the cut off hair could be used to make cloth. See Auschwitz concentration camp#Use of corpses also photo to the right which shows women's hair on top of cloth woven from Jewish hair. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 19:22, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Did the Nazis use the hair as-is, or did they de-louse it first? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:49, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

So were the women bald? Or very short-haired? 81.152.221.74 (talk) 21:41, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

See File:Female prisoners at Birkenau.jpg. Alansplodge (talk) 21:57, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Basically a rough butch cut. It would be odd if the Nazis took the time to carefully shave the heads of victims just before killing them. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:46, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

@Alansplodge and Baseball Bugs: – I'd be a bit careful with that photo. The women don't look starved as one would expect after being in a concentration camp; look at the arms, cheeks and breasts and they look normal. Why? On the subject of hair, it continues to grow (if well fed as these ladies appear to be) so without knowing the time between the haircut and the photo it doesn't tell us a lot. Indeed the lady dead centre appears to have her hair in some sort of braids. The date is 1944, are these Nazi propaganda photos? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Martin of Sheffield (talk • contribs) 07:31, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Notice the train in the background. These women probably just arrived. -- Random person no 362478479 (talk) 07:42, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

It was published by the US Government. Alansplodge (talk) 08:42, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Published, yes, but when was it taken and by whom? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 12:52, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

The Auschwitz Album is the only surviving visual evidence of the process leading to the mass murder at Auschwitz-Birkenau. It is a unique document and was donated to Yad Vashem by Lilly Jacob-Zelmanovic Meier. The photos were taken at the end of May or beginning of June 1944, either by Ernst Hofmann or by Bernhard Walter, two SS men whose task was to take ID photos and fingerprints of the inmates (not of the Jews who were sent directly to the gas chambers). The photos show the arrival of Hungarian Jews from Carpatho-Ruthenia. Many of them came from the Berehovo Ghetto, which itself was a collecting point for Jews from several other small towns.[5] -- Random person no 362478479 (talk) 12:58, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying that. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 13:45, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

July 13

E.F.Hutton

Is this investment firm still around, and if so, is there a article on it, and can any sources be placed? I used to see their ads on TV long ago. Thanks.🥰 Nuclear Sergeant (talk) 02:49, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

See EF Hutton. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:06, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps there should be a redirect: E.F.Hutton → EF Hutton (?)  --136.54.99.98 (talk) 19:31, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Wouldn't hurt. But E.F. Hutton and E. F. Hutton, the two common ways of writing initials in North America, already redirect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.112.221.64 (talk) 20:24, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Done. Redirects are WP:CHEAP. Matt Deres (talk) 15:47, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

A few things on West Point, New York

A few questions regarding the article West Point, New York:

• Do you need to cite that it was part of the New York–Newark, NY–NJ–CT–PA Combined Statistical Area? Or WP:SKYBLUE?
• Same SKYBLUE situation for coordinates.
• And for citing if roads go through it– U.S. Route 9W combined with NY Route 218, and U.S. Route 6.
• I can't find any sources for part of paragraph 2, section "Geography and Climate" but there's a lot of information there. Would it be best to remove it?

Thanks! ‍ ‍ Relativity ‍ ‍ 05:23, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

It is customary to apply {{citation needed}} tags rather than remove large amounts of text. Abductive (reasoning) 06:32, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

The article's talk page is the right place for this discussion. Perhaps your last point is appropriate here, but the rest is outside the scope of the Reference Desks. Alansplodge (talk) 08:41, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Ivan Stepanovič Laškevič (Иван Степанович Лашкевич, 1891-1917)

Please, can you help me to find info about his birth, family, military career, and maybe also photos? Thank you very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.152.158 (talk) 17:27, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Italian wikipedia has an article, with sources. https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Stepanovi%C4%8D_La%C5%A1kevi%C4%8D --Soman (talk) 18:09, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

but can you find his full birth date, his parents, family, and maybe photos? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.152.158 (talk) 18:20, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Following the well documented Italian wikipedia it can be infered that the staff captain Laškevič's genealogy might be expanded here, however the huge work was in fact never entirely completed (see General Armorial of the Noble Families of the Russian Empire) --Askedonty (talk) 21:39, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Then, can you search other sources? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.175.143 (talk) 08:52, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

No luck I'm afraid. His birth date seems to be unknown by anybody as far as I can tell. Alansplodge (talk) 18:19, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

You should probably search in Ukrainian, as the family was either Ukrainian or Belarussian. See uk:Лашкевичі. Ghirla^-трёп- 10:32, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

July 14

Age of majority and Russian monarchs

I have a question. Reading Feodor II of Russia, who was 16 when he was proclaimed tzar, I wonder what was the age when a male became an adult in those times in Russia? Did he have a regent or was he already considered an adult? Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 22:10, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

The article on the Russian Wikipedia states that "as of the approach of Feodor's coming of age" (по мере приближения совершеннолетия Фёдора) his father began to look for a bride for his son, and commissioned a nobleman leaving Moscow in May 1604 for Kartli to bring the King's daughter to Moscow. At the time, the boy was 15. It seems plausible he was considered an adult on his accession to the throne; the lack of mentions of a regent appear to imply there was no regent.  --Lambiam 07:35, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

However, Maria Skuratova-Belskaya "served as regent of Russia during the minority of her son, Tsar Feodor II of Russia, in 1605" but "On 10/20 June 1605, she was strangled with her son Feodor in his apartment". Alansplodge (talk) 09:55, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict)On the other hand our article on Maria Skuratova-Belskaya claims that she "served as regent of Russia during the minority of her son, Tsar Feodor II of Russia, in 1605." The Russian Wikipedia article on her seems much fuller and better referenced, but unfortunately I can't read Russian. --Antiquary (talk) 10:02, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

In April 1605, the people of Moscow were required to swore an oath of allegiance both to Feodor and to his mother. There's some info in English. P.S. There was no word for "regent" in old Russian, the best approximation is "правительница". Ghirla^-трёп- 10:28, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Would that be for a female regent? I presume a male regent would be a правительник. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 00:30, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

@JackofOz: there is no such word. The male form is правитель (as applied to Boris Godunov during the reign of his brother-in-law). Ghirla^-трёп- 11:24, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Aah. Спасибо. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 12:03, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

User:Thinker78, I don't think there would be an exact age of majority. Without written records, someone might not know his age, so even though the Tsarevich would know his exact age, a firm age of majority for all Russians (many of whom were illiterate serfs) wouldn't be practical. Also, in an autocracy where power struggles are liable to happen, it's quite common that someone might be proclaimed of age unusually early. Consider the succession to Fyodor III, marked by power struggles involving three half-siblings, one of whom was virtually a pawn of another. The oldest was regent until the others were 23 and 17, when the others were both proclaimed of age, partly as a way of justifying the oldest one's overthrow. Nyttend (talk) 22:05, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

July 15

Have you....

Heard of The Renee/Rene Society? One of my kin, who was a police officer told me about it. Supposedly, it is similar to NAMBLA, only that they target girls and boys. I've also seen reports of this on some old magazines as well. IF this is "for real", can this be sourced and used? Supposedly this org is into kiddie porn, worse. Thanks. 🤐😘🥰 Nuclear Sergeant (talk) 03:56, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Maybe see René Guyon Society, and then take some Syrup of ipecac. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:22, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

User:Nuclear Sergeant, the juxtaposition of those emojis with your final sentence — wouldn't have been my first choice. Folly Mox (talk) 04:58, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

I was trying to convey how sick the Rene Society founder was and how great the Wikipedians are on here. 🥰 Nuclear Sergeant (talk) 05:59, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

No I haven't. What is your question to the ref desk? Can this be sourced and used for what? Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:39, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

It's just that a cop told me about this org, and I've seen some old magazine articles on it as well. I was trying to find out if it was for real, still around. The mags were not pornos, just really old mags. I don't know if the magazine publishers are still around. You'd be amazed by what you may find at a garage sale, estate sale. Thanks guys. 😘🥰 Nuclear Sergeant (talk) 08:04, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Unless those publishers went into retirement you should be able to find their active status quite easily if you only tried. --Askedonty (talk) 08:36, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Madame Théodore Charpentier

Madame Théodore Charpentier

I've run into a bit of a mystery with an 1869 painting by Renoir titled Madame Théodore Charpentier. Most wiki articles have her connected to the family of Georges Charpentier and Marguerite Charpentier, but I think this is an error of some kind. I don't see how Madame Théodore Charpentier could be connected to this family of the same name because 1) the couple weren't married until 1871, 2) Renoir didn't start painting for them until the mid-1870s (I suspect his first painting for the family was in 1876), and 3) the Le Cœurs were still patrons of Renoir at this time, perhaps all the way up until about 1874. On the other hand, I did find at least one obscure source written by someone I've never heard of before, a Lawrence Hanson, who I think was an art historian. He wrote a book that I've never seen cited anywhere else titled Renoir: the Man, the Painter, and His World (1968). In this book, he claims that in the summer of 1869, Renoir met Georges Charpentier at a party. Again, this is all very odd, as no other source mentions this. Being as curious as a cat, I looked at Hanson's source for this claim which didn't match anything in his bibliography, so there's no concordance; it's either a misprint of a listed source or, well, I don't know what. All in all, very, very weird. So, back to square one. Who is Madame Théodore Charpentier? Viriditas (talk) 09:47, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

There's nothing very meaningful that I can find with Google, except that the Musée d'Orsay website says that until 1924, the painting was owned by the family of "Marie Charpentier (modèle)". [6] Alansplodge (talk) 10:07, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, that's helpful. The Charpentier family tree doesn't list Madame Théodore Charpentier, Théodore, or a model named Marie. I think it's a safe bet that someone made an error, and that Charpentier is a common name in France. I think it's highly likely that Madame Théodore Charpentier is somehow connected to the Le Cœur circle of acquaintances, and not to Georges Charpentier. I think it's best if I start by removing it from all the categories and articles connected to the Charpentier family, since she isn't a member of that family. Viriditas (talk) 10:14, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Update: your linked provenance helped me solve the problem. Madame Théodore Charpentier is Marie Pauline Charpentier (1802–1875), wife of Théodore Charpentier. Her daughter is Marie Le Coeur. Thanks again. Viriditas (talk) 10:23, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

You just beat me to it (edit conflict):

Douglas Cooper explained that this commission, however, was obtained through Renoir's friendship with Jules Le Couer, not Georges Charpentier. Jules' brother, Charles, married Marie Charpentier, whose father was the architect Theodore Charpentier. It is a portrait of Marie's mother.

Snay, Cheryl Kathleen (1991); Renoir and the Charpentiers: The symbiotic nature of the artist/patron relationship p. 19. This seems to be an MA thesis, the start of which is here.

Mme Joseph Le Cœur

The Douglas Cooper article is Renoir, Lise and the Le Cœur Family: A Study of Renoir's Early Development - II: The Le Cœurs which is sadly not readable on JSTOR as "this article is not available for free online reading".

Alansplodge (talk) 10:28, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Wonderful, you're the best, Alan. Viriditas (talk) 10:29, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

C'est rien. Alansplodge (talk) 10:37, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Me again. I was able to access the JSTOR article through The Wikipedia Library:

In March 1866 he was engaged in a large portrait of Mme Joseph Le Cœur, mother of Jules, which he suddenly abandoned to go off with Le Cœur and Sisley on a painting trip. (p. 164)

Alansplodge (talk) 00:00, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Although that’s an entirely different person and painting, I appreciate your commitment and follow through. Viriditas (talk) 02:01, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

D'oh! Alansplodge (talk) 08:03, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Old people and babies look alike. I always get them confused! Viriditas (talk) 09:10, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Lost work of Maurice Ravel

Hello, The wikipedia page of Ravel's works lists the composition entitled "Saint François d'Assise" as lost. Please find the work. Just kidding. Though I would appreciate if anyone could rummage and discover any insight or contemporary commentary/descriptions of the peice.

Thank you 2600:1700:3D74:F010:EDF5:5857:F017:AB23 (talk) 11:31, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Les Fioretti de saint François d'Assise oratorio or cantata, 1909–10? anyone know what the 'M59' identifier refers to? fiveby(zero) 15:46, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

oh, M59 is Marnat, Marcel. Maurice Ravel : l'hommage de la Revue musicale, décembre 1938. OCLC 18361015. fiveby(zero) 15:56, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes, these are evidently numbers allocated in: Maurice Marnat, Maurice Ravel (Paris: Fayard, 1986). Shantavira|^{feed me} 15:58, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Could a reader of French take a quick look here p. 142, 195-6? Just Planned? Manuel de Falla a meme declare (Revue musicale, 1939) qu'une des parties avait ete ebauchee : le Sermon aux oiseaux fiveby(zero) 16:41, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

That makes it sound like it may indeed not have been written or at least not completed. The first mention without year says that he talked about putting the Fioretti (Little Flowers of St. Francis) to music. The second with the year 1932 says that he had a lot of projects: Don Quichotte à Dulcinée (probably M84a the unfinished M84), Jeanne d'Arc (probably the unrealized M86), Morgiane (probably M85 sketches only), Le Grand Mealnes (I found nothing corresponding to this) and an oratorio after the Fioretti. And the statement by Manuel de Falla, that a part of the latter had been drafted: Sermon aux oiseaux (Sermon to the birds). -- Random person no 362478479 (talk) 17:30, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

• Only see snippet views of Hélène Jourdan-Morhange Ravel et nous cf. for Sur l'amour de Ravel pour les oiseaux and Ravel au miroir de ses lettres. Thanks Random, it's unfortunate we can't get the text for Revue musicale 1939. this suggest Manuel de Falla might tell us something of the planned work might survive in "Les entretiens de la Belle et de la Bête" (second part of the Finale?) from Ma mère l'Oye. Someone might try Gallica again, or WP:RX if it could be article content. fiveby(zero) 15:38, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

  I found the text by Manuel de Falla on Gallica[7]. He says that Ravel talked about writing a piece about Francis of Assisi at the time he wrote Daphnis et Chloé (1909-1912) and that he thinks he remembers that Ravel had written a the sketch of the Sermon aux oiseaux. He further speculates that Ravel used that sketch in the second part and the final of Ma mère l'Oye (1910-1911) "of which the beginning has such a beautiful religious character" according to de Falla. He gives no indication that Ravel told him he used it like this. -- Random person no 362478479 (talk) 17:37, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

More in Nichols, Roger (2011). Ravel. p. 114. which cites Manuel de Falla (1979). On Music and Musicians. p. 96. and a personal letter from it:Domenico De' Paoli which must be where there is mention Les entretiens? I'm lost as to which part of Ma mère l'Oye authors are referring to. fiveby(zero) 18:22, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

De Falla says second part and finale, Nichols names these as Petit Poucet and Le jardin féerique. -- Random person no 362478479 (talk) 19:05, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Is The Queen's Gambit book set in the 60s?

Seeing that the book was first published in 1983 and that nowhere in the article about the book it is mentioned that it is set in the 1960s, I wanted to ask if the book is actually set in the 80s and the miniseries being set in the 60s was a creative choice of its creators.

Thanks in advance 109.242.60.18 (talk) 14:05, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

You can read the book at archive.org here (you need to open a free account). On a quick scan through it was difficult to pin down an exact chronology, except that when the heroine is 8 years-old, Major Hoople is mentioned, a comic-strip character from 1921 to 1984, and when 13 years-old, I Love Lucy is mentioned which ran from 1951 to 1957 (although I expect repeats were shown for much longer). Also as a young adult, she leaves for Russia from John F. Kennedy International Airport, which puts it after 1963. Alansplodge (talk) 16:59, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

The U.S. Championship described in the novel was partly modeled after the 1975 Championship in Oberlin, Ohio, which Tevis attended. Soltis, Marcy (May 1983). "Chess: A Novel Idea" (PDF). Chess Life. pp. 288–9. Wonder if anyone has recognized the games which were constructed around the actual moves from nineteenth-century tournaments. fiveby(zero) 22:46, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Tibet's Northern Boundary in 1820

"Qing Dynasty 1820"

" Tibet and the Qing dynasty in 1820."[1]

Hello, I would like community input on two maps of Tibet in 1820. The northern boundary of Tibet in the two maps is wildly different. Which one is reliable, if either? And if neither or only one is reliable, what should be done? Or could both be right, despite the fact there are two different boundary lines? Thanks. Geographyinitiative (talk) 15:44, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

My first thought was that cartography wasn't an exact science back then, but a political one. Who drew each map would probably be a good place to start, and perhaps drop the assumption that one is "right." DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 16:03, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Some maps here. The boundaries being largely mountainous, sparsely inhabited and lacking any sort of international recognition until the early 20th century, it seems likely to me that you might not find a definitive answer. Alansplodge (talk) 17:17, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for looking into this and thinking about this. I totally agree with @DOR (HK):(ex-HK)'s comment that cartography was not an exact science until much later. I also agree with @Alansplodge: that there may not be a definitive answer. So the question is, if DOR and Alan are right: how should Wikipedia handle these two maps? Are they both "good enough" to show Wikipedia readers? Should they both include some kind of disclaimer, so that people don't think these are boundaries like a modern, clearly defined border? Wikipedia is a platform for fearlessly providing citation-based, reliable information. If that northern boundary was uncertain, why not add some kind of disclaimer on these maps directly, so people are not misled into thinking these lines are more than they are? Then a citation for that disclaimer could be added either on the image or on Wikimedia Commons. Thanks again! Geographyinitiative (talk) 17:36, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

The traditional Wikimedia Commons policy is that if there's legitimate real-world dispute or uncertainty, then images reflecting both sides can be uploaded, and then it's up to each individual Wiki-project to decide which images to use. AnonMoos (talk) 18:32, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

It's not only cartography. There are also different (yet related to its fuzziness or inexistence) rules in policy, such as, relationships are established between administrative centers without much worrying about the linear delimitation between their respective territories. See U-Tsang Military Commission. During a period indeed, part of taxation from Shaanxi went to Tibet, or was considered as coming from Tibet: Mt Wutai. --Askedonty (talk) 18:56, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Should this question also apply to File:Qing_dynasty_and_Manchuria.jpg, File:Qing dynasty and Mongolia.jpg, File:Qing_dynasty_and_Qinghai.jpg, and File:Qing dynasty and Xinjiang.jpg? These are all used (as well as the "Empire of the Great Qing" map) in Qing dynasty in Inner Asia. Who are Kallgan and Cartakes (given as the authors of the images)? Oh, they're Wikimedia/Wikipedia usernames: here's commons:User:Kallgan.  Card Zero  (talk) 23:32, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

July 16

other London bakeries and some bike tours

I saw some videos on YouTube. They consisted of two bakeries and a bike tour company in London, United Kingdom. The two bakeries are Peggy Porschen and Brigit's Bakery. The bike tour company is Veluba. I have references to all three of them; [8], [9] and [10]. Are they enough to create articles about them?2603:7000:8641:810E:F9A8:99A:5A03:7822 (talk) 03:13, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Absolutely not. Their own websites do not establish their notability. See WP:42. Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:41, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

How about their YouTube channels; [11], [12] and [13]?2603:7000:8641:810E:2D05:6057:A854:2EEF (talk) 06:52, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

The answer's still no. --Viennese Waltz 07:03, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

What other references establish their notabilities?2603:7000:8641:810E:99A5:579B:3263:93FC (talk) 03:53, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Have a look at Wikipedia:Notability and specifically for businesses, Wikipedia:Notability_(organizations_and_companies). You’ll need to find more than one magazine or newspaper articles (and not too tiny publications either) where the publication has no connection with the business (their own internal newsletter doesn’t count) and where the article is specifically about the business, rather than a passing mention. For example, suppose British Vogue wrote a profile of the owner of Peggy Porschen and The Guardian wrote an article on a Peggy Porschen program to share leftover pies with rough sleepers. But read the links, especially the one for companies – they provide a lot of detail so you can test each source you find against the criteria and see if it passes or fails. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 14:41, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

July 17

Jurisdiction over interstate felony murder

State Street in downtown Bristol, Tennessee (left) and Bristol, Virginia (right)

If a felony murder occurs across state lines (i.e. the predicate felony is committed in one state, but the death occurs in another), which state has jurisdiction? Someone who's wrong on the internet (talk) 02:04, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

The law on this question is unsettled, according to this 1983 article. John M Baker (talk) 05:37, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Clarify, please. Are you thinking of someone who stands on one side of the pictured street and fatally shoots someone on the other side? Also, please clarify the country — do you mean the US or somewhere else? Someone told me of a case here in Australia several decades ago, in which this precise situation occurred, but I can't remember any details (even the states in question) and can't find it with a Google search. Nyttend (talk) 23:19, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm thinking of this case. Someone who's wrong on the internet (talk) 00:27, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Felony murder is an "indirect" murder. You're charged with it if e.g. you commit a bank robbery and one of your accomplices kills someone (or even, in more creative applications, if one of your accomplices is killed). --Lazar Taxon (talk) 01:58, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Then how was it decided that Casey White would be charged in Alabama and not Indiana? Was it a single coin toss or best of three? Someone who's wrong on the internet (talk) 00:25, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

There was a Simpsons episode which set up a case of a murder involving 5 different U.S. states at "5 corners" (which doesn't actually exist, though Four Corners does... AnonMoos (talk) 00:08, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

How many African International students stay or leave China ?

How many African International students stay and work in China after they finished their studies ? How many African International students return to Africa or move to a different country after they finished their schooling in China ? Please provide me with information or sources. 136.143.222.12 (talk) 06:36, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Rotation Day - 18th Century England

On 30th April 1783 James Woodforde wrote "About 1 o'clock took a ride to Mr Smiths at Mattishall and there dined and spent the Afternoon, it being his Rotation Day, with him, Mr and Mrs Bodham, Miss Bodham, a Miss Kitty Johnson, Niece of Mrs Bodham’s, Mr. and Mrs. Howes, and M' Du Quesne. - Mrs. Davy not there but at Dereham, on account of a little Miff between her and M' Smith - but what, we know not. We had for Dinner a Leg of lamb boiled, a Piece of roasted Beef, a baked plumb Pudding, some Crabbs, Tarts, Rasberry Creams, and hung Beef, grated", again on 15th July "I took a ride to Mattishall to Mr Smiths it being his Rotation Day… Mr & Mrs Howes not there which I think very rude, as they promised… but I apprehend they intend dropping the Rotations which… I am not sorry for, as Mrs Davy is… going to board at Mattishall"., and again on 12th November "About 1 o'clock took a ride to Mattishall and there dined and spent the Afternoon at Mr. Smith’s it being his Rotation, with him, Mr. and Mr. Rodham, Mrs. Davy, Nancy, Mr. Ashill, Mr. Du Quesne and Mr. Priest of Reepham. We had for Dinner some stuffed boiled Beef, 3 Chickens, 2 roasted, I boiled. a Piggs Face, a Currant Pudding, Syllabubs, Tartletts, Tarts, &c. &c. I did not get home this evening till 10 o'clock and a bitter cold ride we had home". I rather think I recall Woodforde going to other Rotations Days with other people too. So what was a Rotation Day? I felt sure I'd asked this before, but it seems not. Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 22:42, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

The Rotarian from April 1928 explains the reference as "the idea of members of a social or business club as guests at their homes or places of business in rotation". It references one of Woodforde's diary entries from 13 January 1777: "It is a club meeting and it goes by the name of Rotation. I became a member of it to-day, and they all dine with me Monday next. Every Monday is the day". Warofdreams talk 23:40, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

@Warofdreams: Thank you - you know I said I felt sure I'd asked already? Reading your answer I feel sure someone had told me that already too!. Ain't memory odd? DuncanHill (talk) 23:49, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

See Lunar Society of Birmingham for something very similar. The "Lunaticks" met on the night of the full moon in each other's houses for food and then to show off the latest work they were doing in their various private laboratories. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 07:47, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

I wonder if it's partly a pun on Rogation day (as well as the literal meaning). As a young choirboy I used to have to traipse around the streets (usually in heavy rain, as I remember) singing the Litany on these occasions. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 14:35, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Seems more than likely. Alansplodge (talk) 16:14, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

July 18

Credit card company questions.

1. I was recently the result of skimming in a state of Illinois food stamps card, so, and was worried about credit cards being skimmed. I'm with 3 credit card companies, and none allow the possibility to set a max of single-charge. So therefore, the maximum charge per swipe is the monthly limit. Some of my ccs have a monthly limit as high as $7000/month. Are all credit card companies like this? And is the reason they don't allow users to set a maximum swipe is because of arrogance or they never thought about it? Now, you can lower the monthly limit, but if you do that, the that hurts your credit score, especially if your credit utilization ratio falls below 30%, making this like a catch-22. Shaking-my-head.

2. When credit card companies are part of a bank, can they see how much is in your accounts? I'm with Chase bank and Chase credit card, Capital 1 bank and Capital 1 credit card. Obviously when you're on the phone about your debit card, and want to talk about your credit card, they switch to different phone numbers, making me think the credit card companies are essentially function like completely different companies. But when you 1st open the cc, are they not given how much are in your savings/checkings? Thanks. 170.76.231.162 (talk) 17:06, 18 July 2023 (UTC).

Auto industry question: fixing cars.

When you have like a broken flashlight because the battery is broken, you don't "fix" the battery, you replace it. So what is like this for car parts, which parts are to be fixed, and which are to be replaced? From car mechanics. I'll throw in some examples: engine, alternator, tranmission, torque converter, mufflers, etc. 170.76.231.162 (talk) 17:09, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't think the Catalytic Converter is too fixable. You can adjust the pipe connections, maybe run liquid through it to try to clean it, but if that doesn't work, there's not too much an auto mechanic can do... AnonMoos (talk) 18:05, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your perspective) they don't make cars like they used to. I can remember when a VW (Bosch) generator, starter or distributor could be taken apart and fixed by the consumer. And the engine could be easily rebuilt with a $100 rebuild kit in one weekend. There is, however, a current "Right to repair" movement, even a proposed "national automotive right-to-repair commitment" and a proposed "Right to repair act". -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.54.99.98 (talk) 21:37, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

In olden times, cars like the Ford Model T came with instruction books on how to maintain and repair them, so you could do your own work. Or sometimes had to, as in this song from 1914.[14] <-Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots-> 21:48, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

There's a guy in my area who has an entire business built around 3D fabricating parts for Teslas. He has zero employees because the machines do everything. Viriditas (talk) 23:15, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Most reversed U.S. Sup Ct decision by itself?

Has anything been reversed twice yet? Since 1940s, I'm guessing not. President FDR held the longest term and appointed a bunch of Democratic judges to the bench, and only in recent decades has it been 5-4 and recently 6-3 with conservative majority, and in recent weeks have reversed a few decisions. So I'm guessing nothing has been reversed twice so far, unless we go back to the 1800s? 170.76.231.162 (talk) 17:12, 18 July 2023 (UTC).

Supposedly Dred Scott is "the most-reversed decision in Supreme Court history" (a paraphrase of a sentence I once read), but I don't know the details... AnonMoos (talk) 18:01, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Anyway, we have List of overruled United States Supreme Court decisions... AnonMoos (talk) 18:08, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Found the quote in Slavery, Law, and Politics: The Dred Scott Case in Historical Perspective by Don E. Fehrenbacher (1980, p. 298): "Dred Scott v. Sanford has been called `the most frequently overturned decision in history'." There's no source given for the embedded quote; you would have to look at Fehrenbacher's unabridged book The Dred Scott Case: Its Significance in American Law and Politics (1978), which I don't have, for that. Here "overturned" refers both to subsequent constitutional amendments and subsequent court decisions... AnonMoos (talk) 02:06, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Is Shakespeare or Dickens often referenced in law school or MBA school?

I been watching the TV series Suits (2011) about 2 lawyers, and they constantly reference quotes from plays and such. Is novelists like Shakespeare or Dickens constantly referenced in the curriculum? Or other authors? 170.76.231.162 (talk) 17:17, 18 July 2023 (UTC).

Well, a Shakespeare character said "Let's kill all the lawyers", while a Dickens character said "The law is a ass"... -- AnonMoos (talk) 17:59, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

"Often" and "constantly" are too subjective to answer, and doubt anyone tracks stats on that. But "at all", yes, of course two of the most-quoted writers in the Western canon, who did write about legal situations, have been mentioned to students in law school. For example: the search "charles dickens" site:hls.harvard.edu returns only three ghits but "shakespeare" site:hls.harvard.edu returns 46, one of which is an obituary of prof Alan Stone, and mentions One of his most popular courses, “Justice and Morality in the Plays of Shakespeare,” included a staged trial of Hamlet, sometimes with U.S. Supreme Court Justice Anthony M. Kennedy ’61 presiding.. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 20:45, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Treaty of Federation

Treaty of Federation says that the treaty was signed by 86 of Russia's 89 federal subjects. Which ones didn't sign? A cited statement observes that Chechnya and Tatarstan stayed away, but the other one isn't discussed. ru:Федеративный договор gives a list of signatories, but as far as I can tell, it's completely unsourced, so I can't simply go down the list and find the one that's missing. Nyttend (talk) 21:48, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

July 19

What was the last major voyage of the Age of Exploration without a telescope on board?

Was it one of Henry Hudson's? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:00, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

• Sluiter, E. (1997). "The First Known Telescopes Carried to America, Asia and the Arctic, 1614–39". Journal for the History of Astronomy. 28 (22): 141–145.

I found that a hungry Henry Hudson traded a spyglass to a Native American in the voyage of 1610-11 so he probably had at least 2 telescopes. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 03:28, 19 July 2023 (UTC)