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July 22

Adding images from books

Hello. I am interested to learn how I might go about adding images from books to support articles. I love writing articles but as soon as I try to read pages like this Wikipedia:Non-free content my mind turns into cottage cheese and nothing goes in. Is there a really simplified Idiot's Guide for non-technical people like myself?

I am currently writing an article about Jennetta Vise, a British illustrator working from 1940s to 1980s. It would be great to be able to add an image to show her style, but there is nothing in Wikimedia and everything else is in books (e.g. https://archive.org/details/dli.scoerat.4418gaywaypicturedictionary/page/n3/mode/2up?q=%22Jennetta+Vise%22 ) Am I allowed to use an image from here?

Any help is hugely appreciated. BJCHK (talk) 00:28, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

You can't add copyrighted images to Wikimedia Commons. Under narrow circumstances you can add low-resolution copies to Wikipedia (under the "fair use" provision of US copyright law) if there is no other way to illustrate the subject, but it's slightly frowned on, and the image may get removed. Scroll down the page you linked to Wikipedia:Non-free content#Images which goes into more detail. –jacobolus (t) 01:00, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm not saying this would necessarily work in the long run, but you could try uploading an example of her art as non-free on WP (not Commons) arguing WP:NFCI #7. But you can only do that after the article is in mainspace. Don't worry about resolution, a bot will fix if necessary. I love book titles like that. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:23, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

You can't add copyrighted image to Wikimedia Commons isn't a correct statement at all and Commons actually hosts lots of copyrighted images. Any work released by its copyright holder under an acceptable Creative Commons license is perfectly OK for Commons and such works are still protected by copyright. What you can't do is take someone else's copyrighted work and claim it as your own or otherwise release it under a Creative Commons license without first getting the original copyright holder's consent. Another thing that you can't do is upload someone else's copyrighted content to Commons and claim it's fair use. Such content, however, may be uploaded locally to Wikipedia, but its use will need to comply with Wikipedia's non-free content use policy. This policy is quite restrictive and one of the restrictions is that it can only be used in the article namespace. So, you should first write the article and make sure it satisfies all relevant Wikipedia policies and guidelines for article content. Once you've accomplished that, you can start worrying about adding images. Generally, a non-free representative example of a visual artist's work is often allowed as long as it's something which in and of itself has either received sourced critical commentary and is considered by most reliable sources as being the most representative example of the artist's work. Of course, a free equivalent example of an artist's work is going to pretty much always be preferred over any non-free one. Given that you say the Vise was active from 1940s to 1980s, it possible that one of her earlier works might have already entered into the public domain and is not longer protected by copyright. -- Marchjuly (talk) 10:56, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Translation of Russian geographic names.

Are there any rules for translating Russian names? I find out that Leningradskaya oblast is translated as Leningrad Ovlast - which is correct - but Leningradki Prospekt is translated as Leningradski Avenue which is obviously inconsistent with the Russian language. It would be equally absurd to call Connecticut Avenue something like Connectutian Avenue.

This is just an example. Why do we call the region Moscow oblast but do not follow the same rule for the districts for instance Lotoshinsky District? Afil (talk) 01:13, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

@Afil: our generic advice would be to discuss this on the talk page of the affected article. In this case, I think you should get consensus (and maybe help) from interested editors at Wikipedia:WikiProject Russia, and then work together on all the affected articles. -Arch dude (talk) 01:42, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Tips on editing an article with numerous issues?

I plan to edit the Path 27 article to fix numerous deficiencies that were introduced en masse in a major edit on 16 December 2022. It feels like a daunting task to address many issues that were introduced at once. I'm inclined to make edits that fix issues one at a time, factual errors first and then issues of phrasing and relevance. I welcome any tips on how to proceed in a case like this. What do you do when faced with an edit that extensively reworked a page, and (trying to put it delicately here) not always for the better? Tom239 (talk) 01:15, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Tom239. It would probably be a good idea to go to the Talk page of Nebulous2357, who made that major edit (and quite a few others since), and discuss with them what you think the "introduced deficiencies" are. You are both obviously deeply interested in the (rather technical) subject, so it would be better for you to come to an amicable concensus rather than to start reverting or changing obviously well meant (and extensive) edits without fully understanding their basis. The latter could lead to misunderstandings and ill feelings.

Given the nature of the subject, it seems likely that disputed facts will have to be worked through one at a time – wholescale reversions or other large-scale changes might muddy the waters beyond anyone's ability to clear them. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.198.140.169 (talk) 02:15, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Greeting, Tom239! I received a notice in my inbox leading me to this conversation. True, I made the massive edit and subsequent revisions on that article, and did so through the sandbox. I'll keep a lookout on my Talk page for any deficiencies you may have identified on the article, and hope to settle on solutions to each. Remember, as 51.198.140.169 stated, this is a collaborative effort, and it doesn't have to involve only you and me, but every Wikipedia user out there. Still, that someone noticed my contribution is excellent!

Nebulous2357 (talk) 04:32, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

According to wikipedia no muslims are involved in medicine

I am about to have my neck operated on by a recognized neurosurgeon Dr w y Musleh. There are more Dr Muslehs than I could shake a st. But to believe wikipedia they don't exist. 2601:1C2:4A00:B2A:1CF1:16BA:3FB6:CC6A (talk) 01:38, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia has articles on subjects that are notable by our definition, (see WP:N) AND that have been written about by an interested volunteer. If you know of a notable subject that does not have an article, feel free to write one: see WP:YFA. I don't think we are biased against some specific subset of subjects, please discuss at WP:BIAS, but I don't see that here.-Arch dude (talk) 01:50, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Precisely where does English-language Wikipedia say that no Muslims are involved in medicine? (If it's a Wikipedia of a different language, you'll have to raise the issue there.) -- Hoary (talk) 06:00, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

It was probably an absurd exaggeration after we didn't have articles about some specific people called Musleh. We don't organize medical people by religion but I guess most of Category:Arab physicians are muslims. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:02, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Suggestion for a new redirect concerning Australia

Should we have a redirect from Wongari to Dingo or something else? In Fraser Island English, Dingoes are named Wongari. See https://parks.des.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/157232/be-dingo-safe-flyer.pdf, see more on Google searching "Wongari", or see even German news t-online https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/panorama/id_100211816/australien-saftige-strafe-fuer-selfie-mit-wilden-welpen.html --Mann aus 23 (talk) 09:03, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Looks fine. I have created the redirect. {{replyto|SilverLocust}} (talk) 13:14, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Why?

Why when I edit something and put what supposed to be there like if Phone is missing an E at the end the edit will be reverted Malaquia100 (talk) 14:33, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

@Malaquia100: You didn't change "Phon" to "Phone". You changed a correct birth name, clearly identified as the birth name, to a name the subject took later.[1] The name change is mentioned and sourced in the article.[2] PrimeHunter (talk) 14:43, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

confused

All of a sudden I'm getting emails on a Wikipedia page that I created years ago. All of a sudden someone has removed one of 3 photos of the late Lou Stathis. I'm the owner of all 3 photos. Why just take down one? They're all from different years in the 1980's. I'm not a constant user of Wikipedia, and I'd like to know what's going on. I'm elderly and do not understand most of the jargon. Also, all of a sudden, someone is sending me emails about a reproduction of my family's heirloom lithograph from the 1880's showing the Rialto fish market in Venice. It was accepted by Wikimedia decades ago. Why, all of a sudden, am I being bombarded with jargon and accusations? Can someone explain why this "problem" suddenly began showing up, years later? And, what the heck is "(talk)"? SavageRock (talk) 16:30, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

SavageRock this seems to be a "problem" at Wikimedia Commons, where the images were uploaded, but I will do my best. "(talk)" is a page where messages can be posted. There are messages on Commons:User talk:SavageRock, your Commons talk page which say what has happened. It seems that Commons needed some more information from you in 2013 and 2023, you did not provide it and the images were deleted. You probably receive automatic emails when messages are added to your talk page. Unfortunately there is a lot of jargon, possibly relating to copyright law. Clicking on the link to the deleted file File:Lou in his office at High Times magazine, photo by Jeff Schalles.tif produces a note of the username of the deleter, User:Krd, so they may be able to advise you what to do. Otherwise you could ask at Commons:Commons:Village pump/Copyright. TSventon (talk) 18:00, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi SavageRock. First of all, based upon what you've described above, it doesn't look like anyone is harassing you. You uploaded some files to Commons that were subsequently tagged for deletion and you were then notified as such on your Commons user talk page. Notifying users that their uploads have issues that could lead to their deletion if left unaddressed is common and in many cases required. I'm not sure why you're receiving emails about such things. One possibility is that you might have set your Wikipedia account's user preferences in such a way so as to receive notification emails when anyone makes an edit to one of the files you uploaded or an article you edit. Another possibility is that you registered an email address when you signed up for a Wikipedia account and someone did try to contact via Wikipedia about a particular image as explained in WP:EMAIL. These emails are sent via Wikipedia and the other user doesn't know you email address. Such emails can be a way to try and contact another in good faith about something Wikipedia related. You're not obligated to respond and you can re-set your settings by going to the top of the page, clicking on "Preferences", then clicking on "User profile", scrolling down to "Email options" and adjusting your preferences accordingly.

As for why your one of you uploads is being questioned now after so many years, only Gbawden (the person who tagged the file for license verification) can say for sure, but usually this means that there was some question about the accuracy of the license or the claim of copyright ownership. Either of these can typically be resolved fairly easily by emailing the Wikimedia Volunteer Response Team (VRT) at permissions-commons@wikimedia.org to verify your copyright ownership of the photo in question. I don't know why your other photos weren't tagged as such, but you can also in the same email mention them as well. A VRT member will review the email and will take care of the rest if everything checks out. An example of the kinds of emails VRT prefers can be found here. Once your copyright ownership has been verified, the deleted file will be restored.

Please try to remember that Commons, like Wikipedia, is a 100% WP:VOLUNTEER run project. There's is no "official" Commons staff that checks and verifies file licensing when files are uploaded. Tons of files are uploaded daily to Commons and often many of these are things that, for whatever reason, Commons can't really host. In many cases, a file can go unnoticed for years until someone notices it (again for whatever reason) and assesses its licensing. If that person feels something is lacking, they may tag or otherwise nominate the file for deletion as explained here. The file is then reviewed by a Commons administrator, who then decides whether deletion is warranted. Since Commons tends to err on the side of caution when it comes to file licensing, files who's licensing can't be properly verified tend to be deleted as a precaution. Nothing in this process is 100% foolproof and nothing in this process in 100% non-reversible. Deleted files can be restored once their licensing issues have been resolved, and the easiest way to do so tends to be emailing VRT as I mentioned above. Commons and Wikipedia are separate projects with their own policies and guidelines. They're inter-connected in many ways because they're both Wikimedia Foundation projects, but they're still separate projects. Lots of Wikipedia users edit on Commons and vice versa, but Commons matters will need to be resolved on Commons. You can post a message c:User talk:Krd if you want to know more from the Commons administrator who deleted the file. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:41, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

@TSventon and SavageRock: Small note: Link to the deleted file referenced above is c:File:Lou_in_his_office_at_High_Times_magazine,_photo_by_Jeff_Schalles.tif. The software treats links to nonexistant fole description pages the same as any other red link, and in particular, it doesn't check wether the file ever existed, and if so, where.

Looking into the details of that file, without having access to the deleted revisions over on commons, it seems that the file was deleted as missing permission. This happens, for example, if the |author= field or file exif data identifies a real name as the file copyright holder and it is not clear that the uploading account is owned by someone having that real name. Victor Schmidt (talk) 07:01, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

The file in question was titled "Lou in his office at High Times magazine, photo by Jeff Schalles.tif". For us to keep it on commons we would need permission from Jeff Schalles. The process has been outlined nicely above. Gbawden (talk) 07:13, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

July 23

Formatting a wikilink inside square brackets

There's a quote I'm tryna format, present on both Lady Zhen and Kong Rong (possibly elsewhere), where I want to wikilink a term which is nested between square brackets denoting an editorial alteration.

I'm already using {{!(}} and {{)!}} to produce the exterior pair of square brackets, but if I keep them both adjacent to the wikilinked term, it produces text with three pairs of square brackets and no wikilink, same as if I forgo the templates and just use square bracket characters: [[[Di Xin]]]. The nearest solution I've been able to find is leaving a whitespace between the wikilink and the editorial square brackets on either side like [ Di Xin ].

Is there a way to format this how I want?
n.b. I'm substituting this term into the quote to avoid a homophony (Zhou dynasty / King Zhou of Shang) that's extremely confusing for non-specialists. Folly Mox (talk) 01:17, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

If you are quoting something, you should not alter the quote. Quotes should be verbatim. If you are going to paraphrase, and change the terms, then don't present it as a quote. But, to answer your question directly, use nowiki tags around the outside brackets: [Di Xin] RudolfRed (talk) 01:42, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Oh geez I can't believe I forgot about nowiki tags. I guess I figured we have a template for everything now. These pages inherited the editorialised quote from an inactive editor; I'll rearrange the prose. Folly Mox (talk) 02:13, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Did that, but fyi the original quote verbatim is "武王伐紂，以妲己賜周公", so there might have been some leeway. Folly Mox (talk) 02:28, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Prince William Frederick, Duke of Gloucester and Edinburgh

Ref number 10 has red ink down the bottom - please fix, there appears to be a problem with dates. Thanks 175.38.42.62 (talk) 03:37, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Another editor fixed it. You put in a futures date in a couple of places. RudolfRed (talk) 03:47, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Pushpin maps(?)

Does anybody know how to show multiple maps that can be selected as in the Jakarta article - pushpin maps? Looking at the WML, there is no mention of the filenames used - just some strange hashtags. I tried searching on help, but as is well known, the pathetic inadequacies of that function mean it's almost impossible to find even simple information. Any help, or a pointer to the concealed help page, would be much appreciated. Thanks. Davidelit (Talk) 04:17, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Thats a (hidden) call to {{Location map}}, presumably from Template:Infobox settlement. Basically, the value of |pushpin_map= is split on the hashtags, and the template then looks in Module:Location map/data/value for the images it should use. The radio buttons are added via clientside javascript from a default gadget. Victor Schmidt (talk) 06:41, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

@Victor Schmidt: Thanks for responding, but I'm still not much nearer to being able to include pushpin maps in articles. How does the information get in Module:Location map/data/value ? Is it necessary to enter it manually? Or is the |pushpin_map= parameter added manually to the page with the image? Is there any documentation about how to do this? Regards Davidelit (Talk) 04:27, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Davidelit when you want a pushpin map in an article, you have to specify the |pushpin_map= of {{Infobox settlement}}, this value is passed through to the sub-template {{location map}} as the first unnamed parameter (one could also place a direct call to Location map in an article, but AFAIK its uncommon). The param takes a list of regions to display, seperated by #. In Jakarta the parameter is set to Indonesia Java#Indonesia#Southeast Asia, which means it should display a map of Java, one of Indonesia and one of Southeast Asia, in that order. The Module:Location map/data/value set of pages tell {{location map}} which file to use for a given region (as well as the coordinates covered, to place the location marker), e.g. When you specify Indonesia Java#Indonesia#Southeast Asia it will look into Module:Location map/data/Indonesia Java, Module:Location map/data/Indonesia and Module:Location map/data/Southeast Asia to determine which files it should use (if it cannot find a page called Module:Location map/data/foo it will try Template:Location map foo, if that also doesn't exist, it will display an error). This is also extensively covered at Template:Location map and to some extent in Template:Infobox_settlement#Maps,_coordinates. Victor Schmidt (talk) 06:19, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Prince William Frederick, Duke of Gloucester and Edinburgh

I'm am worried that the new refernece number 11 is not quite right - is it OK? Thank you 175.38.42.62 (talk) 04:00, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

No it isn't. Please remove the circled R. Wikipedia avoids adorning trademarks with these things. 126.233.162.211 (talk) 07:21, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

I see that the cite web template that the ref uses has both website and publisher parameters in it, which are pretty much the same. I would get rid of the publisher parameter since it is redundant, the name of the publisher company is exactly the same as the name of the website.

Looking at the reference itself, it appears to be just a picture of a portrait on an art museum website with very little additional info in it; I'm not sure how this inline reference adds to the verifiability of the sentence it is next to. But I am not very well-knowledged in the subject, maybe somebody else could explain this bit. — AP 499D25 (talk) 07:37, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Amelia Opie

Ref number 1 has bits of it in red, please fix if able. thanks. 175.38.42.62 (talk) 06:52, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

There's no bit in red. But why the CAPITALS? 126.233.162.211 (talk) 07:24, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

126.233.162.211, thats because I fixed the cite error that caused the red text, I only forgot to mention it here. Victor Schmidt (talk) 07:53, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Article created when a draft already exists - what next?

Hi there,

Suppose that someone creates an article in the mainspace even though there already exists an article under the same name but in the draft space. The new mainspace article is a bit different from the draft one.

What's the best way to go about using the content in the draft / copying it from the draft to the article while still maintaining attribution?

I came up with three different scenarios:

• Request history merge of the revisions on the draft article into the actual article
• This is a pretty crazy one I gotta say, but if I believe the article that has been created is not very useful / encyclopedic in its current state, then I send it through a deletion process like PROD or AfD. (That way we continue working on the draft as normal.)
• Turn the draft into a redirect to the actual article, perhaps with an "R with history" rcat on it, and then we copy content from the draft into the article with attribution. I swear I've seen drafts redirect into articles in the past before.

The actual draft and article in question if anyone's wondering, are Draft:Meteor Lake and Meteor Lake. Somebody else actually PRODded the Meteor Lake article nearly a week ago but it was cancelled just today. — AP 499D25 (talk) 07:10, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

I was about to post about the exact same thing here as well! I've seen this twice so far in my inaugural round of NPP duties; at this writing, I'm now wondering how to deal with Draft:Nalla Nilavulla Rathri (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) → Nalla Nilavulla Rathri (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (a recently released Malayalam action thriller from India). --Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 07:15, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Assuming that the topic of the existing article is notable and that the article does not have major problems like copyright violations or severe biographies of living people violations, then focus on improving the article by copying and pasting the useful new content from the draft to the article, attributing the specific draft as the source in your edit summary. Leave a note at the top of the draft page expressing your opinion that all usefull new content has been moved to the existing main space article. Cullen328 (talk) 07:35, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, I will do that. — AP 499D25 (talk) 08:02, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Question about deleted templates and attribution

When a template that is in use gets nominated for deletion, and the discussion is in favour of the deletion, one of the most common outcomes of that scenario is that the template is substituted into the article(s) and deleted. This would throw away the editing history of the template. Does this really not break the attribution rules of the CC BY license used on Wikipedia?

Second question. Can I copy the contents of a deleted template (or a template that is about to be deleted) and paste it on an article without worrying about attribution?

The specific template I'm trying to deal with here is Template:AMD Ryzen 4000 series. The current major iteration of the template was made by me (when I did a rework of the table layout), but there were a few small edits made by other editors after it. The template is a content template that is transcluded onto articles to add content to the articles, and it just contains a wikitable and a short list at the top. — AP 499D25 (talk) 07:25, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Note: my question has been partially answered at the relevant TfD. — AP 499D25 (talk) 00:18, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

I have lost my mobile number how can I chane my mobile 6online

Wants to connect my new mobile number and link my adhar 2402:8100:2728:D1EB:EE92:42E7:DE7B:769F (talk) 09:27, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm sorry, this is not a general help desk- this is only for asking questions about using Wikipedia. 331dot (talk) 09:28, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Earlham Hall

Ref . number 8 is all wrong - please assist if able. Thank you 175.38.42.62 (talk) 10:54, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Now fixed. Shantavira|^{feed me} 13:56, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Template->Cite Book on the edit window

Hi Folks! How would I get the "cite books" dialog that appears updated so it includes both volume, series and doi. Many of the university's are now doi's on the books and book chapters. Also, in almost every second reference I put on either a volume or a series or both. Yet its not on there and have to add it manualy every time? I see its finally been added to "cite journal" but journal are generally not in a series. Seems odd. Also is it possibly to design it in a manner that put many of the well used citation templates in it or some of them anyway. We are living in age of media, yet "cite AV" is not on it. Cite thesis would be handy as well. I seem to be putting more and more of these on as journal articles seem to be using them a lot more. I don't know if its a trend, but seems so at first glance. Thanks. scope_creep^Talk 14:32, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

@Scope creep Do you mean the dialog that appears when you use the visual editor? The underlying template {{cite book}} allows for all the parameters you mention. A much easier way to do the citations, in my opinion, is to use your sandbox in source mode in combination with the WP:Citation expander (you don't need to save the result, just copy/paste it out once done). That gadget takes a DOI directly as input and creates a cite book or a cite journal as appropriate. The whole can then be put into the VE tab you have open separately. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:13, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Michael D. Turnbull: Thanks for the suggestion but I think it's only an indeterminate solution. I've not seen the citation expander, but certainly it would work with doi's but less so isbn's, sometimes there is only three fields populated and that often doesn't include the authors, never mind location, date, language. Its a very poor lookup mechanism. Is there any reason why "series, volume and doi" properties are not available on the dialog, particularly when they are so common. Its a massive timesink going back and forward, manually updating the references, when it should already be done in the dialog. It seem at best a weird time wasting exercise for no benfit to anybody. The time I've wasted going back and forward fixing references, I could have probably created another 50, 100 articles for the time I've wasted. scope_creep^Talk 08:12, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Does it ?

Does It have a part or link in wikibooks that you could publish your own book in wikibooks Malaquia100 (talk) 18:32, 23 July 2023 (UTC)Malaquia100 (talk) 18:31, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Malaquia100, is your question "Can I publish my own book in Wikibooks?"? If so, Wikibooks is not Wikipedia. Therefore go to Wikibooks, select the language, familiarize yourself with Wikibooks in that language, and in what seems to be an appropriate forum there, describe the textbook that you have in mind and ask about it. -- Hoary (talk) 00:10, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

I want to be able to upload pictures

Access Assamoto (talk) 20:08, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Assamoto See the File Upload Wizard. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 21:17, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Question about selection of version in the discussion

I added commemoration section in the Association football culture on 6 December 2022‎. then I had a dispute with user:AirshipJungleman29 about this section.

So I opened the discussion on 21 January 2023‎. We discussed this issue and third opinion - user participated in discussion but I and AirshipJungleman29 did't reach a consensus.

The discussion died a natural death‍ since 29 January 2023‎ and commemoration section was stayed until 19 July 2023.

On 20 July 2023, AirshipJungleman29 deleted this section without restart of discussion.

On 22 July 2023, I opened the second discussion and I asked for roll back to the 16 June 2023 version (pre second discussion - latest version )

But AirshipJungleman29 refuse to roll back to the 16 June 2023 version.

When do we discuss in the second discussion, Which version do we select? - 16 June 2023 version with commemoration section or 20 July 2023 without commemoration section Footwiks (talk) 20:17, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Footwiks, in general just keep it the way it is until the discussion ends. Reverting to the other version could incite an edit war. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 21:19, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Note OP has been indefinitely blocked for disruptive editing and WP:CIR. CodeTalker (talk) 23:47, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Amici miei – Atto III

Could someone change the title of this page? The hyphen should read "-", not "–". JackkBrown (talk) 22:48, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Is there some reason, JackkBrown, why this kind of request shouldn't be listed at Wikipedia:Requested moves? -- Hoary (talk) 00:02, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't think the suggested move is correct anyway. I don't see a case in MOS:HYPHEN that would apply here, and I see statements that would suggest that the title should remain as is (and this should be reverted) such as A hyphen is never followed or preceded by a space, except when hanging ... or when used to display parts of words independently. There is already a redirect from the form with a hyphen to the form with a dash, which all seems correct. CodeTalker (talk) 00:17, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

July 24

Self-propelled shark proof cage.

Can i obtain a phone contact in australia to guide me through the editing process on this subject?. I am happy to pay for the time. Regards margesson Margesson (talk) 00:42, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Everyone here is a volunteer, your subject is of no higher priority and engaging with a paid editor will not help your cause.

Please disclose your Conflict of Interest as has been requested or you're going to be blocked. Star Mississippi 01:55, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

I have no conflist of interest . I am trying to add secondary sources as requested.

Regards margesson Margesson (talk) 02:04, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

In this edit, you said How do i attach to Wikipedia the patent papers for my shark proof diving cage. That is definitely a conflict of interest, and (coupled with the fact that you are offering money) suggests that your purpose here is promotional. Promotion of any kind is forbidden on Wikipedia. ColinFine (talk) 12:20, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

I was told that the patent was of no value to prove the devopment of the shark cage and that i must supply secondary scources which i have been trying to do for some time. The patent has been listed on wickipedia for years under different headings. I have not manufactured diving cages for 45 years . I am not promoting the diving cage for financial benefit but to give the true facts about the development of the shark cage. I am not familiar with the computer or internet so having a lot of trouble a accessing the site. There are many claims on Wikipedia about shark diving cages which are completely false and I hope you can help me correct them.

Regards margesson 2001:8003:B081:F900:7E7E:53B0:F7CB:22F6 (talk) 13:13, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for clarifying. If the material you want to add relates in any way to your patent, then you do indeed have a conflict of interest as far as Wikipedia is concerned. Even if this is not a commercial matter, you will naturally want any text to reflect favourably on your work and may find it difficult to be objective (this is not a reflection on you, but a fact of human nature). For this reason you are strongly recommended not to edit directly anything related to your invention, but instead to make edit requests.

On the matter of the patent: indeed, primary sources such as patents are of very limited value in a Wikipedia article. Yes, they demonstrate that an invention was created and registered, just as a birth certificate or company registration demonstrate that the person was born or the company registered. But thousands of inventions are patented and companies formed, and millions of people are born: why should Wikipedia be interested in this particular one?

The answer is that Wikipedia is interested in things (or people) only when somebody unconnected with them has already shown enough interest in them to publish something about them. So if somebody unconnected with you has written about your invention (in a reliably published source) then there may be a case for mentioning it in a Wikipedia article - but in that case, there is probably no need to cite the patent.

The gold standard for sources is discussed at GOLDENRULE. If what you want to add to articles has been published in souces that meet those criteria, it can very likely be inserted; but if what you are wanting to insert is from your own experience or from unpublished documents, then I'm afraid that Wikipedia simply does not publish original research. ColinFine (talk) 14:29, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Colin. This all started when my grandkids were doing a project on sharks and searched on Wikipedia "who invented the shark cage" Answer. - Jacques Cousteau in 1956 used a metal cage tethered to the stern of a boat to film sharks. This could not be invented as it is just a steel mesh frame. Ten years later Rodney Fox went to the zoo and saw a lion in a cage and then claimed that it inspired him to design his own cage. Further on under the heading Rodney Fox, he claimed he went on to design and build the first under water observation cage. That is clearly untrue. My grandkids said, "Poppy, I thought you conceived, built and patented the first shark proof diving cage" Surely if someone claims my invention, I have a right and duty for history's sake to prove otherwise.

Perhaps you could assist me to correct all the false claims regarding shark cage diving on Wikipedia. 

Regards margesson Margesson (talk) 05:42, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

@Margesson: Just to clarify: you are claiming that you are the first person to create a shark-proof diving cage? If so, do you have any reliable sources that state as such? JML1148 ^{(talk | contribs)} 09:21, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

yes,to my knowledge I definitely claim that I was the first person to create a self-propelled shark-proof cage.  I have many reliable sources and working on presenting them to you. This is all new to me and it is taking me a while to pick it up. Could you please be a little patient. 

Regards margesson. Margesson (talk) 12:17, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Surely if someone claims my invention, I have a right and duty for history's sake to prove otherwise. no, not really. Among other reasons, that's not what Wikipedia is for. You need to disclose your conflict of interest, or you're going to be blocked. You're close to that already for clearly only being here to promote the cage you're connected with. Star Mississippi 11:39, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

I am working to supply some references to you. I am very disappointed to hear that Wikipedia is "not really" about.

the truth and history. What is it about then? What are you doing about the claims made by Mr fox who runs a shark diving company and claim to have developed the shark cage with no evidence at all. Is that a conflict of interested? Can you tell me how i am promoting the diving cage. Am I not allowed to talk about it?

regards margesson Margesson (talk) 12:39, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

article scope advice

I am currently trying to work on an article about a bank, but I have noticed that some of my sources talk about it in connection with another bank that is owned by the same larger company. Wikipedia has no articles on either bank or the broader company. I am wondering if it makes more sense to write articles on each separate bank and then a small stub about the broader company, or if it would be better form to write one longer article about the broader company with the information about both banks.

In general I am looking for a policy/guiding article for when articles should be split into two. Thanks! Ronsaur (talk) 03:45, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

I think the most important question is which of the organisations you mention are notable according to the Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) policy. If all three are notable, then you can look at Wikipedia:Summary style for guidance on splitting. TSventon (talk) 12:25, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Floating tooltip

How can I make a floating tooltip in a navbox without having to use a notes template like Template:Efn? Basically, I'm trying to get this done without it. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 10:03, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

@Dissident93: I'm not sure what you're trying to do, but remember that MOS:NOTOOLTIPS requires us not to use techniques that require interaction to provide information, such as tooltips or any other "hover" text. Bazza (talk) 11:27, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

On my recently created, Vigilant Isles 22

For which, I understand why there might be some controvery, but my question is, why dont the categories show up at the bottom? The link can be found at Vigilant Isles 22. StrongALPHA (talk) 11:02, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

StrongALPHA, immediately in front of each instance of "Category", you have a colon. Remove the colon (which is only needed when provisionally categorizing a draft). -- Hoary (talk) 11:19, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

blue projects page

how can i add more information's on an existing page? 2A02:2F0B:420A:4D00:7C98:50B9:B55F:EA2A (talk) 12:04, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Most articles in Wikipedia can be edited by anybody, logged in or not. Just pick "Edit".

However, all information in an article should come from a reliable published source: if you add information that you know from personal observation, or that somebody told you, or that you saw on social media, it is likely that another editor will come along and revert your edit. It might also happen that you add information that is properly sourced, but another editor does not agree that it is appropriate for an encyclopaedia article (for example, if they think it is trivial or unimportant) and removes it. This is a collaborative project, and editors often disagree and have to work together to reach agreement.

Please see Help:Editing and WP:BRD for more information. ColinFine (talk) 12:28, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Prince William Frederick, Duke of Gloucester and Edinburgh

Ref number 9 should have as its title - The Death of Prince William Frederick, Duke of Gloucester and Edinburgh

Can this be added please - I'm sorry I cannot do this.

Also - this is the url for the last ref I just added which is number 13 https://www.google.com.au/books/edition/The_Popular_Radical_Press_in_Britain_181/UszxDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=gurney+family+whig%C2%A0&pg=PA408&printsec=frontcover

Something went wrong.

Thanks and please keep the quote in if you can 175.38.42.62 (talk) 12:15, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

image rendering unrotated

There's an image at Still_Life_with_Bread_and_Eggs#Description_of_earlier_portrait that I asked to be rotated on commons, and it has been, but now in the article it's rendering the landscape version as a portrait. I tried replacing it, but it still renders that way. Can anyone figure out what I'm doing wrong? Thanks for any help! Valereee (talk) 16:45, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

The portrait looks upright to me, so unless I'm mistaken in what you want, I think it's fixed? WelpThatWorked (talk) 17:01, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Try clearing your browser cache. - AquilaFasciata (talk | contribs) 17:10, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Difference.

What is the difference between a ban and a block? TheBigBookOfNaturalScience 📖 (💬/📜) 20:09, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

See BAN and BLOCK @TheBigBookOfNaturalScience. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:15, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

@TheBigBookOfNaturalScience: To summarise, bans are where an editor is prohibited from making certain types of edits, but (from a technical perspective) there is nothing stopping them from breaching the ban. Blocks are often used to enforce bans, and prevent editors from physically editing. JML1148 ^{(talk | contribs)} 07:59, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

That is actually helpful. Thanks, @JML1148. TheBigBookOfNaturalScience 📖 (💬/📜) 08:02, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Luigi De Laurentiis

This article has no references. JackkBrown (talk) 20:39, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

JackkBrown, thanks for pointing out the error. There are likely sources to be found about him, but they haven't been placed in the article yet. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 21:24, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

@Sungodtemple:. Why did you add {{BLP unsourced}} to an article about someone who has been dead for more than 30 years? Is there some reason you feel the article still needs to be treated as a BLP? -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:26, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

JackkBrown, many articles have no references. What is your purpose in pointing out here that this or that article has no references? -- Hoary (talk) 22:30, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi JackBrown. As Hoary points out there are many articles that have no references, and there could be many reasons for this. In some cases, the article might have never had any references from the start and has remained that way ever since. In other cases, the article might have actually had references at some point, but these were removed for some reason (e.g. non-reliable source) or for no reason at all (e.g. vandalism). Ideally, all article content, for the most part, should be supported by citations to reliable sources, but lots of articles get created and lots of content gets added all the time without proper references. There's really no way to prevent that given the nature of Wikipedia; so, the best thing that can be done is usually try a sort such things out when they are noticed. The first thing to do when coming across something like this is decide what can be WP:PRESERVEd. If the article has no references, then trying to find some reliable sources to cite as references is one way to try and be WP:HERE. If you don't have the time or desire to do as much, then adding a maintenance template to the top of the article doesn't take much time and is helpful because it lets others no there's a problem. If the article is beyond saving or the subject is clearly not Wikipedia notable in your opinion, there's always WP:DELETE to consider. Howeever, before taking that step, you should do a WP:BEFORE check either by yourself or by asking for assistance at one of the WikiProjects listed at the top of the article's talk page.

I was able to find two reliable sources indirectly mentioning Luigi (they seem reliable to me) and add them to the article, but they primarily about his brothers and just mention Luigi in passing. There still might be better sources out there (even ones in Italian). -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:26, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

July 25

Question

Hello, I'm trying to make a Wikipedia article for a children's webseries I made called Paperville Friend. How do I make a page! Thanks! LTDF2013YT (talk) 00:39, 25 July 2023 (UTC)Lyrick

@LTDF2013YT: I suggest you take a look at WP:YFA to learn how to write an article, but I (and other editors) would strongly discourage you from writing on this particular subject, as you'd have a conflict of interest that you would need to disclose. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:46, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

@LTDF2013YT: You don't. The only absolute requirement for a Wikipedia article is that the subject is notable by our definition (see WP:N). Your webseries cannot have a Wikipedia article until it becomes notable: see WP:TOOSOON. After it becomes notable, please come back here and we can help you with several other issues. -Arch dude (talk) 01:52, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Copyright/Logo Policy Question for Pictures

Hi guys! I want to add some pictures to grocery store articles because the articles lack pictures. However, I'm a bit reluctant to add pictures of physical grocery store locations because I'm worried they violate WP:LOGOS. I find the article a bit confusing myself, so if anybody can clarify where Wikipedia stands on this issue, I'd appreciate it! (perhaps this is a better question for the Helpdesk, but I'm going to keep my question up) ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 04:12, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi HistoryTheorist. It's not too clear (at least not to me) what you're asking. Do you want to add pictures of grocery stores (i.e. the actual buildings themselves) to articles? Do you want to add an image of the grocery store's logo to articles? If you can clarify what you're looking to do, it might be easier answer your question. Finally, it will also help if you can provide a link to the article where you want to add such images. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:18, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

I want to take a picture of physical locations of PCC Community Markets and QFC (among other articles), but in doing so, I'd most likely include the logo of the grocery store. Hope that clarifies my question! ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 05:56, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

@HistoryTheorist:. There are two things that need to be considered when it comes to such photos. The first is going to be freedom of panorama (FOP) and how it applies to buidlings and other architectural works. Copyright laws vary (sometimes quite a lot) from country to country and the degree of FOP that some countries allows also can vary quite a lot. On one hand, there are countries like the US that allow buildings and other habitable structures to be freely photographed without the photographer needing to worry about whether they're photos might be infringing upon the copyrights of the buliding or structures designer. On the other hand, there are countries like France which don't allow any type of FOP. Since the two article's you linked to above are for stores located in the US, it should be OK for you to photograph them without needing to worry about infringing on the copyrights of the building designers. You, however, need to take the photos yourself because trying to use photos taken by someone else without getting their WP:CONSENT would be a violation of their copyright.

The next thing has to do with copyrights of the logos themselves and that has to do with de minimis and the threshold of originality (TOO). Many commercial logos are going to be eligible for copyright protection if they're considered to be above the TOO, but the TOO rules, like the FOP rules, can vary quite bit from country to country. The TOO of the US is relatively high compared to some other countries which means it typically takes quite a lot of creativity for a logo to be considered eligible for copyright protection under US copyright law. However, even if the logo considered eligible for copyright protection under US copyright law, it still might be acceptable to take a photo of it under the concept of de minimis as long as it's part of a larger scene and considered incidental to photo as a whole. Most storefronts have signs that show their logo or choice of branding that are part of the physical structure, and it's often impossible to take photo of a storefront without also including these signs as well. As long as the photo doesn't focus in too much on the sign so that the sign seems to be the main reason why the photo was taken, de minimis can usually be argued in favor of including the sign. You can find some examples of de minimis being applied at c:COM:DM.

Now, everything I posted above is related to the copyright status of the photos you seem to want to take. That's very important, but you will also need to make sure the photos are being used in accordance with Wikipedia:Image use policy. Generally, photos should complement textual content and be encyclopedically relevant to the readers of articles. For example, it might be considered OK to add a photo of a company's headquarters, its flagship store or its very first store in a Wikipedia article about the company, but it would probably be considered excessive to add a gallery of photos of each of the same company's branch stores or the local store nearest to you just for the sake of doing so. There should be a strong contextual reason for doing so that complements what's written in the article. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:45, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Bibleverse with invalid book

Could someone fix the red error messages "Template:Bibleverse with invalid book" in List of modern names for biblical place names? The Bible links appear to be correct when clicked, but the errors are still displayed. Thanks. 212.180.235.46 (talk) 09:10, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done ({{Bibleverse}} does not accept roman book numbers). Bazza (talk) 09:38, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Somebody should fix that. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:40, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Amelia Opie

I have destroyed ref. number 8 - please leve in quotes - thanks 175.38.42.62 (talk) 12:34, 25 July 2023 (UTC)