Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/WikiTree (2nd nomination)

WikiTree

AfDs for this article:

• Articles for deletion/WikiTree
• Articles for deletion/WikiTree (2nd nomination)

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WikiTree (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Insufficient outside sources Belle Fast (talk) 09:09, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Websites-related deletion discussions. Belle Fast (talk) 09:09, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
• Delete and SALT per first AfD, page serves no use, very little if any reliable second source coverage, seems to fail WP:GNG. Bunch of primary/self cites on the page now. May serve as a magnet for various WP:PROMO and WP:SOAP activities for and against the site but there is little meat here. SALT against creation for either positive or negative material and edit warring over that. —DIYeditor (talk) 09:27, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

  Thank you very much for a prompt and balanced response Belle Fast (talk) 11:07, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

  That previous AfD nomination and subsequent deletion are not relevant to the current situation. Apparently the earlier AfD was for an article about a different entity named "WikiTree." It appears from the Wayback Machine that the site called WikiTree in 2005 and 2006 had the same domain owner, but that site apparently was taken down. The WikiTree.com site covered by the current article asserts (at https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:About_WikiTree) that the site opened in 2008. Orlady (talk) 18:52, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

  @Orlady: Thanks for looking into that. If it was a genealogy site (which archive.org shows) with the same domain owner, it does seem relevant to this discussion, no? Their first party assertions about the start date don't hold a lot of weight. —DIYeditor (talk) 04:28, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

• Keep. There are relevant scholarly articles that have utilized data provided by WikiTree. Notably, the research papers titled 'Quantitative Analysis of Genealogy Using Digitised Family Trees' and 'Data Mining of Online Genealogy Datasets for Revealing Lifespan Patterns in Human Population' have relied on the data offered by WikiTree. These references demonstrate the value and importance of WikiTree as a resource for researchers and academics in the field of genealogy and population studies. While the absence of some outside sources may be a valid concern, it is crucial to recognize that Wikipedia itself is an ever-evolving platform, and the absence of cited external sources at a particular moment does not necessarily warrant deletion. As a community-driven encyclopedia, Wikipedia should strive to provide comprehensive coverage of notable subjects, and WikiTree undoubtedly falls within that category. 2601:2C5:4700:310:3A14:457E:FCB5:7AE2 (talk) 15:20, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

  From the first of these learned papers, I quote: “The data we use were provided by WikiTree, a free, collaborative worldwide family tree project created by a community of amateur genealogists. Data are available on 6.67 million people in over 160 countries (but mainly the US, UK, Germany, Canada, New Zealand and Holland) going as far back as the 1st century …... Data were validated by WikiTree using their in-house procedures which include checking source materials and by making individuals' profiles editable only by a limited list of users, and we provided additional validation by comparing lifespans in the data with those reported by third party sources.”

  The three authors betray a considerable degree of naivety. WikiTree members are indeed amateurs and most of their work shows it. Fiction plays a strong part in many of their trees, hence the ludicrous claim of descents from the 1st century. An example is the profile for “Tiberius Claudius Caesar Britannicus Born before 12 Feb 41 in Rome, Italy Son of father unknown and Valeria Messalina Brother of Claudia Octavia Died 11 Feb 55 after age 13 in Rome, Italy” The only source cited for this rather distant ancestor is Wikipedia!

  As for the unbelievable claim that data for 6.67 million people was validated by WikiTree, one has only to look at random cases from the past twenty centuries or even just the last couple of centuries to find endless examples of people with no credible source at all. The whole set-up is flawed and shoddy. Restricting editing powers to certfied users may limit the amount of fake info being added, but will they ever be able to clean up millions of valueless profles already there?

  I'm sorry, but I do not believe that a survey like this can whitewash WikiTree and do not think it should count against deletion. Belle Fast (talk) 19:07, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

  It seems you might have forgotten to log in before commenting. Would you mind saying whether you have any connection to PureRedneck, or any relationship to WikiTree? Thanks, MundoMango (talk) 21:43, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Internet-related deletion discussions. Orlady (talk) 19:35, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

• Keep There doesn't appear to be even an attempt by the nominator to address the reliable source coverage already used in the article? Difficult to claim non-notability when there's no discussion of existing sourcing in relation to said notability. I've done a brief search and found several more usable sources as well.

• Patton-Imani, Sandra (2018). "Legitimacy and the Transfer of Children: Adoption, Belonging, and Online Genealogy". Genealogy. 2 (4). doi:10.3390/genealogy2040037. Retrieved August 5, 2023.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link)
• Beidler, James M. (June 24, 2012). "Roots and Branches: New genealogical mantra - 'Collaboration'". Lebanon Daily News. Retrieved August 5, 2023.
• McGyver, Diane (November 13, 2012). "What's a WikiTree?". Kings County Record. Retrieved August 5, 2023.

And it looks like this stemmed from an ANI thread about an editor who was behaving inappropriately? But that has nothing to do with the notability of this article and subject. Also, based off of the talk page of this article, there just seems to be several users with a personal WP:IDONTLIKEIT issue with the article subject. Silverseren^C 18:56, 5 August 2023 (UTC)