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Cordless Larry, a Teahouse host

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Wikipedia treating me like I'm a newcomer

I have been an editor for nearly two years. I tried creating an article for a musical artist (Project 86)'s album to update their status, but Wikipedia began acting like I haven't done this before and made it submit to the board for review, even though I no longer need to do so to create an article. Then, on my profile page, the draft, and most of my contributions, won't even show, although not erased. A fellow user suggested the IP address might have shifted, but I couldn't find that out very easily. I want to revert to what I had before, making articles without being treated like a newcomer, as I clearly am not. How can this problem be rectified? DarnItAll34 (talk) 16:23, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @DarnItAll34! Your contribution history goes back to Oct. 2022, and you are extended-confirmed, so you ought to have non-newcomer rights. Some templates may ask you to submit articles through WP:AfC, but you should be able to just move them to mainspace yourself given your rights. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 16:33, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

How do I move them to the mainspace? DarnItAll34 (talk) 17:58, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

@DarnItAll34, see WP:Moving a page. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 17:59, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

thanks DarnItAll34 (talk) 22:07, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

If this is about OMNI, Pt. 1, it has been accepted as an article. David notMD (talk) 20:04, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

I made another page for the same band, and it acted like I'm a newbie again. DarnItAll34 (talk) 22:07, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

@DarnItAll34: How do you try to create articles directly? Do you get an empty box you can write in if you click a red link like this one? PrimeHunter (talk) 23:07, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

usually I click on Article Wizard or a prompt from my first approved article message saying create articles yourself. But it's all right now, I found how to maneuver around the weird Wikipedia "glitch". DarnItAll34 (talk) 03:19, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

@DarnItAll34: That's not a glitch. Wikipedia:Article wizard once had a choice between creating an article or draft. The article option was deliberately removed, probably because the quality was often very poor. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:22, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

I feel the need to clarify that there's not a "board for review". AfC is ran by independent volunteers. casualdejekyll 15:59, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for all this information, PrimeHunter and casualdejekyll, I am now more knowledgeable! DarnItAll34 (talk) 19:14, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Uploading Photos

Hello wiki teahouse, I am trying to help out an old friend who is a well known British Guitar Player called Oliver Darling who plays as a side man to a lot of famous people. I have created him a draft page but when trying to upload a recent photo he gave me of him on stage with Ronnie Wood (of Rolling Stones and Rod Stewart fame) I get a message.

"We could not determine whether this file is suitable for Wikimedia Commons. Please only upload photos that you took yourself with your camera, or see what else is acceptable. See the guide to make sure the file is acceptable and learn how to upload it on Wikimedia Commons."

Any idea how I get around this?

I contributed to Wikipedia in it's very early days but am totally out of touch with the current policies and methods of publishing.

Many Thanks in anticipation of a responce.

Steve SteveOffaAaron (talk) 22:48, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi Steve,

Wikipedia, due to the 10s of billions of views it gets every month nowadays, has become significantly more restrictive when it comes to creating new articles and uploading new photos. This makes sense, so that we can avoid being overwhelmed by millions of spam articles and questionable images on a daily/hourly basis. But it does make adding new content frustrating if you're used to the way things were done in the early days.

In terms of your article, it's important to include reliable sources in it. If you simply write an article without citing any outside sources, the article will almost certainly be rejected. I can help you with this, if you wish. Contact me on my "talk" page any time.

In terms of the photograph, you may find someone here that can give you a precise answer to your question. Good day. Pecopteris (talk) 23:06, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello SteveOffaAaron. As for the photo, you cannot upload a a photo that someone else gave you, because you are not the copyright holder of that photo. In most cases, the photographer is the copyright holder. The legal process to freely license a photo for upload to Wikimedia Commons can only be carried out by the copyright holder. As for your draft, what you need to provide is references to significant coverage of Oliver Darling in reliable sources that are entirely independent of Darling. And then you summarize what those sources say about him. Cullen328 (talk) 23:21, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, I have gone back to Oliver Darling and the Imelda May management to find the original photographer and request they post the image. They had already informally granted the rights to use it but I presume it will be a lot more straight forward if they can add it. SteveOffaAaron (talk) 15:24, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

@SteveOffaAaron, you should also review Wikipedia's guideline on editing with a conflict of interest, if you haven't already read it. Here's a link: WP:COI. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:22, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, I have gone back to Oliver Darling, Imelda May and Tanita Tikaram for some information. As a session Oliver Darling has played on hundreds of recordings but would not be directly credited on them. However, where he has played as a band member, particularly on albums that charted he probably is. I have ask for detail.

Also, is it permissible to post links to concert footage on youtube etc? There is plenty of stuff of him playing Glastonbury, The Royal Albert Hall and prime time TV etc. I was not sure if it is okay to link this? SteveOffaAaron (talk) 16:36, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Revert wikitext editing to older behavior

In the current mode of wikitext editing, when you're editing on the left side of the screen, things dynamically update on the right side. While the idea sounds good, I've found this change to be generally annoying. Now I've had the experience that when an edit conflict occurs, it seems that my changes are all lost (whereas previously, I could view the changes I had made since it would let me display a diff against the version of the page when I had started editing).

Am I wrong? It's possible I made a mistake, but I don't think so. In any case, I just want to go back to the former behavior, as I find the new behavior to be quite annoying. (My apologies if this has been prevoiusly addressed.) Fabrickator (talk) 23:56, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Fabrickator. I think that Wikipedia:Vector 2022#How to turn off the new skin may help you solve the problem. Cullen328 (talk) 00:03, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

@Fabrickator If you want to continue using vector 22, then you can turn off the dynamic preview in the source editor by clicking on the toggle to the top right of the editing window (it says "Preview"). While the preview can be annoying, I occasionally find it helpful as it can be scrolled independently of the part you are editing and hence you can check portions of the article remote from where you are working. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:17, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Screenshot for reference. You do not need to turn off Vector 2022 for disable this. Ca ^{talk to me!} 14:09, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

@Ca Thanks! It has taken me some time to understand the whole issue is with the "preview" toggle button. From my experience, this is just a trap waiting to happen, and awareness of this problem among the user community will be slow, because edit conflicts are a relatively rare occurrence and the appropriate use of the "preview" toggle seems unclear. Fabrickator (talk) 01:24, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

How to further edit my page to make it pass

Hey team, the link for the page I set up is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Sora_Ventures

I have edited it multiple times but it just doesn't meet the standards. I was wondering what exactly I can do to make it pass, thanks! Since most of the sources I supplied are already secondary and stating facts Leestc (talk) 03:59, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello Leestc. I clicked on your Reference 3 and got "404 page not found." I know nothing about cryptocurrency, so I have no knowledge on what your draft needs to state to show notability. You may want to reach out to people at WikiProject Cryptocurrency and WikiProject Finance & Investment (links are on your draft's talk page) and ask for advice. Best wishes. Karenthewriter (talk) 04:21, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Karenthewriter, thanks for pointing that out! I've edited it. Leestc (talk) 02:55, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Leestc, this draft is strange from the very start. A reference normally backs up the proposition or propositions that it immediately follows, but this draft starts Sora Ventures^[1] is a Venture Capital firm headquartered^[2] in Taipei, Taiwan. Thus the first reference seems to back up the implicit claim that Sora Ventures exists, and the second that it's a venture capital [no need for capitals] firm that's headquartered. But its existence is demonstrated later, and (perhaps with a few exceptions) every firm is headquartered. -- Hoary (talk) 06:44, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Hoary, thanks for the concern. Why I put headquartered is because every venture firm (such as pantera, a16z) have headquarters in a specific city, hence why I put the wording like that. Any suggestions as to how you would phrase it? Leestc (talk) 02:55, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Leestc, I suspect that what you want to show is a reference for the claim that it's headquartered in Taipei. If so, then ... a venture capital firm headquartered in Taipei, Taiwan.^[2] As it is, you're just giving a reference for the claim that the company is "headquartered" (somewhere, somehow) -- an uninteresting fact because, as you say, every venture firm has headquarters in some city or other; whereas the reader might not know, and might want to know, which city. -- Hoary (talk) 05:27, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Hoary, thanks for the clarification, I've edited it. Are there any other suggestions that you have regarding the subject? Leestc (talk) 08:22, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Leestc, and welcome to the Teahouse. When a brand new editor immediately starts by trying to create an article, and works on no other articles, experience shows that the editor very often has a connection with the subject of the draft. Please clarify what connection you have with Sora Ventures. "I have no connection" is a perfectly acceptable answer, but if you are in any way connected with them, please read about editing with a conflict of interest. ColinFine (talk) 10:18, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Hey @ColinFine, I have no connection with the subject of the draft, hence there would be no conflict of interest. But it is my first time creating an article, hence any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated, thanks! Leestc (talk) 02:53, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying that, Leestc.

I've just looked at the first few sources. The current first one (Cryptoslate from December) and fourth one (Cryptoslate from this month) are largely based on interviews, so are not independent. The second one does no more than mention Sora. Wikipedia is not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources.

Please read Golden rule, and see which of your sources matches all of those criteria. If the answer is None, then Sora is probably not currently notable according to Wikipedia's criteria. ColinFine (talk) 13:22, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @ColinFine, understand your point of view, and I've removed the sources that only mention the subject. Again I have no connection to the subject, but these links that I put as reference are all public on the internet for everyone to see, such as the subject moving headquarters, its a fact and not unindependent. Let me know if its better now and can resubmit, thanks! Leestc (talk) 04:54, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi again, Leestc. I accept that you have no connection with the company.

The fact of the subject moving headquarters may indeed be a verifiable fact, but why is it significant for an encyclopaedia article? Reading your draft, I'm going "Why is any of this of general interest?" Most of the main paragraph is unsubstantiated, vague claims. Who says it is "one of the first digital asset backed funds in Asia that is still actively investing today", and why is that of any significance? Even if it has over 80 portfolio companies, so what?

This is why the recommendation is always to start with the sources - reliable, independent, substantial sources - and write the article based on them. If several commentators have thought it worth the investment of time and effort to research a company, and write about it, then Wikipedia will take note (that's why we use the sometimes problematic word "notable"). But if nobody has, Wikipedia is not interested. ColinFine (talk) 09:55, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Hey @ColinFine, thanks for the response. I've further edited it to sound as neutral as possible. After looking at Pantera Capital's page they also have sentences that are verifiable online, so I will leave the headquarters part in. I'll resubmit and see if its enough to pass as a subject. Leestc (talk) 12:36, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Leestc, I'd remove the Crunchbase source from the draft since it is unreliable and is deprecated per WP:CRUNCHBASE. Thanks! Tails Wx (they/them) ⚧ 02:59, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Hey @Tails Wx, understood, edited! Please let me know if there are other suggestions, thanks! Leestc (talk) 08:22, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Abuse of powers by Moderators.

I placed an edit request in India Talk page. I backed up my request with facts and suitable substantiation. But my request was not accepted and that too without any reason being given. My request was to change an error in the info box of the page. Everytime I make a reply reply I change my query status answered from Yes to No as instructed by the info page. Now one of the Mods have now given me warning for doing this and asked me to post my query here and in rfc. How do I report the Moderators and how do I get the India Page's info box corrected. Roaly3 (talk) 05:31, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi Roaly. I briefly looked at the conversation over here. My take: I don't think anyone is attacking you personally, and I don't see any abuse of power taking place here. I'd encourage you to refrain from trying to "report" anybody, and instead focus your energies on taking their well-meaning advice by creating an RfC about how the "official languages" are treated on the India page. Pecopteris (talk) 05:58, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

I did that. I added the RFC tag to the post just as I was instructed and it was deleted by another editor. Roaly3 (talk) 05:57, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Why can't this article from NYT added to the Epoch Times page?

NYT is a reliable source, yet this article has been removed many times: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/24/technology/epoch-times-influence-falun-gong.html from the Epoch Times wiki page: The Epoch Times Why? Bobby fletcher (talk) 07:55, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

That is a 2020 article in the NYTimes that appears to have been added/deleted as a ref in the Epoch Times article, and discussed there on the ET Talk page, now archived. Options for you are to add content to the ET article, using the NYTimes as a ref (and see what happens), or else start a new discussion on the Talk page of ET. What you did - adding a comment to an archived discussion from 2020 - is unlikely to be seen by anyone. David notMD (talk) 09:23, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Page Sudmission declined

Hello, I tried to publish a wikipedia page about Beyond Vision, but it was declined for some unclear reasons. Draft:Beyond Vision Please, can someone help me? 2001:8A0:7C05:6F00:C53D:73CC:A99B:B5BE (talk) 08:26, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Could you be more specific? The reviewer left the reason for their decline at the top of your draft. I would note that if you work for this company, that needs to be disclosed, please see conflict of interest and paid editing. 331dot (talk) 08:29, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

The reviewer left this comment:

This submission appears to read more like an advertisement than an entry in an encyclopedia. Encyclopedia articles need to be written from a neutral point of view, and should refer to a range of independent, reliable, published sources, not just to materials produced by the creator of the subject being discussed. Nsbfrank (talk) 08:35, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes. Do you have a more specific question about this reason? 331dot (talk) 08:37, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

How can I fix this problem before resubmitting? What about my publication seems like advertising, is it the linking to the company's website or the tables? Nsbfrank (talk) 08:39, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a place to merely tell about a company and what it does. That's considered advertising or promotional here. A Wikipedia article about a company must summarize what independent reliable sources with significant coverage have chosen on their own to say about the company, showing how it meets the special Wikipedia definition of a notable company. Put another way, Wikipedia is not interested in what a company says about itself, only in what others completely unconnected with the company, and not based on materials from the company(like press releases or interviews) have chosen to say about the company and what makes it important/significant/influential. Please see Your First Article.

There is also some promotional language in the draft, like "solutions"(see WP:SOLUTIONS for an explanation of why that is problematic) and "innovative user-friendly platform". If something is "innovative", we need to know who says that other than the company itself.

As odd as it may sound, you actually have too many sources. You should concentrate on summarizing your three best sources with significant coverage.

Again, if you work for or are associated with this company, that needs to be disclosed, see conflict of interest and paid editing(note that "paid editing" means any form of paid relationship). 331dot (talk) 08:46, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I have COI, and I choose to use this esteemed forum to make this article unbiased and speaks to facts without any form ofadvertising but more informative for wiki readersy. Therefore, I kindly solicit your help. Nsbfrank (talk) 09:24, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

You must disclose your conflict of interest and/or paid relationship(again note that "paid editing" includes any paid relationship like employment). Disclosing paid editing is a Terms of Use requirement and mandatory; you should do this in one of your next edits.

Wikipedia is not for merely providing information or facts. There is no such thing as an "unbiased forum", as all sources have biases. We present the sources to readers so they can evaluate and judge them for themselves. The best thing I can say to help you is that you should go on about the normal activities of your company and forget about writing a Wikipedia article about it- if your company truly meets the definition of a notable company, someone will eventually write about it. There are also good reasons to not want an article about your company.

However, if you wish to proceed, you should essentially start over and determine what the three best independent sources are that, on their own, chose to write about your company and what they see as significant about it(not what the company sees as significant about itself). What are your three best sources? 331dot (talk) 09:30, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

@331dot Thank you for your candid comment. I really appreciate your advice. As requested, here are the major sources

1. "Drone da Beyond Vision participa em simulacro no Porto de Aveiro". Security Magazine. 2022-02-16. Link ↩
2. "IOT Challenge - Edições anteriores | MEO Empresas". MEO. Link ↩
3. Chilkunda, Adarsh et al. "UAV-based Scenario Builder and Physical Testing platform for Autonomous Vehicles". 2023 6th Conference on Cloud and Internet of Things (CIoT). doi:10.1109/CIoT57267.2023.10084885. ↩
4. "Portuguese Navy Trials Beyond Vision UAV in Recovery and Resilience Plan". Link ↩
5. "Drones da Beyond Vision ajudam na produção de azeite". Agroportal. 2021-03-10. Link ↩

Nsbfrank (talk) 09:41, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Instructions to disclose have been provided on your user talk page. 331dot (talk) 09:31, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Of the five sources above: 1 and 5 appear to be based on press releases, 2 give a 404 message, 3 is to a blank ChatGPT page, and 4 is to a page which does not mention Beyond Vision. If those are your three best sources, I hate to think what the other 35 are like. Please be aware that sources are judged by quality, not quantity. Maproom (talk) 12:24, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

I am sorry for the error. Here are the links.

https://www.securitymagazine.pt/2022/02/16/drone-da-beyond-vision-participa-em-simulacro-no-porto-de-aveiro/

https://www.agroportal.pt/drones-da-beyond-vision-ajudam-na-producao-de-azeite/

https://tek.sapo.pt/noticias/negocios/artigos/monitorizacao-da-agricultura-com-drones-e-smart-glasses-que-transmitem-a-visao-do-medico-vencem-iot-challenge

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10084885 Nsbfrank (talk) 13:41, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Glitch? in the article for Orthida

there is an issue with the temporal range for Orthida, it's not going all the way through the Permian, and instead stopping (gltching?) slightly before it ends, which, i tried to change but it's still like that (sorry for my wording). Abdullah raji (talk) 08:54, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

I have fixed it; the temporal range mentioned "Mid permian" instead of "Permian". Lectonar (talk) 09:57, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. Abdullah raji (talk) 12:53, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Edits

Hello. I edited Wikipedia under an IP address from August 2021 to June 2022. However, I was wondering if there was a way to put these edits under my username. Don't worry if not. Roads4117 (talk) 10:28, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

No, there isn't. If many or all of your contributions were under one particular IP address you could link to the Special:Contribs page for that IP on your userpage and note the connection, but there's no technical way to reattribute those edits to you. Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 10:50, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

@Caeciliusinhorto-public How do you do that? Roads4117 (talk) 11:01, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Caeciliusinhorto-public: you do that by editing your user page and adding something like "Wikipedia edits from the IP address 92.93.94.95 are by me, see Special:Contributions/92.93.94.95".   Maproom (talk) 12:30, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, Maproom :) Roads4117 (talk) 17:46, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Quotations in Evan McKie

Hi, I'm wondering whether quotations from the subject of the article should be cut down in the article about Evan McKie. I thought there was a policy on length of quotations, but can't find it. Thanks, Tacyarg (talk) 12:00, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

The lead section of an article is meant to summarise what follows. But the lead section of Evan McKie has more than twice as much text as the whole of the rest of the article. Maproom (talk) 12:34, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Quotations has some guidance. --Jayron32 13:10, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Is content suitable for article?

Hello together,

Is the content of this article too promotional or can some of this be added to the Wikipedia article? 176.204.60.171 (talk) 12:48, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi again IP editor. I understand that you lost investments with Dadvan, but repeated and persistent attempts to alter this article to be more positive and promotional is heavily looked down upon. Qcne (talk) 12:55, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

New profile > looking for editing & posting help

Hi everyone - myself completely new to Wikipedia, I am seeking help to properly format and post this new profile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Paul_Werner_Glaser Thanks to @GoingBatty feedback, I have updated my copy, added footnotes, and corrected links available but am seeking help to now put this into a final and acceptable format for publishing. Andipost (talk) 13:22, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Andipost. Everything after the lead section is completely unreferenced, which means the article will never be accepted in it's current state.

Every statement needs to have a reference. Please see Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. Qcne (talk) 13:41, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

I also just want to note, we don't have 'profiles' on Wikipedia, but 'articles'. This is an important distinction to make, as a Wikipedia article is not owned by any one person, even the subject of the article. Qcne (talk) 13:44, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

@Andipost: You need many more references, as Qcne said. Also, your use of the word "profile" suggests you misunderstand how Wikipedia works. Biographies are ABSOLUTELY not like social media profiles: they should NOT be promotional in any way. Wikipedia is not a web host, a social network, or a place to promote a topic or point of view. It is an encyclopedia: always keep this in mind. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 23:12, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Remove all hyperlinks (URLs). Cut Notable works to no more than ten (an article is not a CV). Reference everything remaining. Cut content you cannot find references for. David notMD (talk) 15:29, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Reverting an articles lead section

Hi everyone, I've been looking at this page's lead section. It has been edited in a way that information from dedicated sections have been duplicated here, not referenced properly and don't use a NPOV. I think this would warrant a revert and to add information to the article's talk page, however, I want to hear some opinions before proceeding with this.

Thanks in advance Danwordy (talk) 13:45, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

@Danwordy Based on this version I have a couple of comments. 1) WP:LEAD says that the lead should summarise the rest of the article, which implies that duplication is inevitable, yet the sentence starting In 2019, following an investigation by... is not mentioned at all in the body. 2) MOS:LEADCITE points out that (for the same reason) it is not always necessary to place citations in the lead, as they should be in the body text later: the exception being in biographies of living people, where citation is always required. So it is valid for you to suggest improvements on the Talk Page. I haven't checked whether you could revert to some earlier version where my concerns would be addressed. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:24, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi Mike, Thanks for the reply and for the information. I understand what you mean about duplication being inevitable and that would make sense if the previous editor had done it in a way that had built on a previous version of the lead section (22nd of July). Instead it appears they have deleted most of the previous lead section and literally copy and pasted paragraphs from other sections into the lead section. I think the version on the 22nd of July before the edits on the 16th of August were made reads better and more neutral and has the potential to have information added to it in a constructive way, what's your opinion? Danwordy (talk) 14:41, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

@Danwordy The July 22 version may read better but it lacks the vital information that the company was declared bankrupt in 2023, which IMO should certainly be there. The Teahouse is not really the best venue for this discussion, which you should take to the Talk Page of the article. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:00, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice and help Mike, I'll be sure to do that Danwordy (talk) 15:07, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Notes in the lists of Pokémon by generation (e.g., List of generation I Pokémon)

Hello all,

Question on the notability & sourceability of information in the notes of tables for the lists of Pokémon by generation. These list articles contain extensive notes which are rarely sourced and appear to be predominantly in-universe information, but given the volume of these entries & time that they have been in this status I am unsure if removing these notes except where sourced & notable outside of the game universe is the correct approach.

Example: As of the current revision of List of generation I Pokémon (1), Pidgeot has the following note:

(1) https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=List_of_generation_I_Pok%C3%A9mon&oldid=1171331552

Most trainers choose Pidgeot as their Pokémon due to their striking, beautiful feathers. Pidgeots tend to be very large in size. Its highly decorated plumage is used to intimidate enemies. It races through the skies at Mach-2 speed.

This is not clearly sourced, and appears to be generally not aligned with Wikipedia's policies on notability (since this is in-universe information) and original research.

This entry has been in this state with minor revisions since December 2019 (2), with the first sentance being present with minor revisions since November 2018 (3)...

(2) https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=List_of_generation_I_Pok%C3%A9mon&oldid=929561005

(3) https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=List_of_generation_I_Pok%C3%A9mon&oldid=870930429

Note: On certain list pages (e.g., List of generation II Pokémon there is a header (see below) which explicitly states that in-universe information should not be added, but appears not to have been followed since almost all entries in the list have this type of information.

This article only covers the basics of Pokémon species. For detailed in-universe information, please refer to dedicated wikis on the subject.

Thanks for your advice, Shazback (talk) 15:24, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Any unsourced content can be removed at any time. - UtherSRG (talk) 15:45, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

I suppose, really, it depends on the information you're removing. In the example of Pidgeot, I'd agree it's mostly fluff and we should just have a physical description. However, this additional info is sometimes useful in demonstrating a Pokemon's abilities or personality. It's really dependent on what information is listed and what information is actually useful for building that image. I'd say it's really case by case per Pokemon, but granted I wouldn't know without going through all 1010+ entries individually. It's a big undertaking.

As an example while looking at one of the lists right now, I'm going to use Ivysaur. The first sentence, describing how its seed has grown into a bud and how it's lost the ability to stand on its hind legs, may be useful as physical description, but needs a rewrite so it's not quoting the Pokedex entry verbatim. The fact it draws in sunlight as energy through said bud may be useful as well. A lot of the other information there is mostly fluff. (Do we need to know that it releases a scent when it's about to evolve? It's not necessary information.)

As for sourcing, if any of this in universe info is useful for a Pokemon in question, it most likely comes from in game Pokedex entries. Many Pokemon articles on Wikipedia cite Pokedex entries in the sources, typically for physical descriptions and the like, so it really comes down to finding said entry and citing it. Again, this is only if the information could be useful as an identifier. Pokelego999 (talk) 16:58, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

My main concern is how to align with WP:VG/CONTENT "[...] it is important not to clutter an article with [...] an excessive amount of non-encyclopedic trivia" and WP:VGSCOPE , in particular item 5 "Excessive fictional details: [...] focus on the real-world elements of a topic, such as creation and reception".

Most (if not all) of the information in the "notes" column appears to be trivia with limited or no link to the real-world elements of the Pokémon series. By nature of there being >100 items on each list page, even minimal trivia on a per-item basis is excessive for the list as a whole.

Pokémons' physical description, abilities, and personality do not seem to have sufficient real-world impact to be included on this basis in my opinion.

Explanations of Pokémon's names ("Its English name is a portmanteau of "ivy" and "dinosaur") and appearances in other games would similarly need to be re-worked significantly (through mutliple sources showing how this is relevant to the creation or reception of the Pokémon series).

For both Pidgeot and Ivysaur as of current revision [1] my WP:BOLD approach would be to remove the entire text in the "Note" column...

I would suggest that most of the information in "Notes" should be copied to a gaming wiki and removed from Wikipedia. Shazback (talk) 19:54, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

I have to disagree. What's the point of a list if the reader has no idea what the heck the subjects are? That's just words on a sheet at that point. I agree it needs a major trimming and rewording, but complete removal? That just seems unhelpful for the article. If you're interested in adding reception and such for the Pokemon on the list, then I'm definitely in agreement that it would be beneficial, but then there also comes the caveat of going through every species of Pokemon for a search for sources. That's an undertaking that's incredibly massive by nature, and it's not something that can be accomplished in one simple edit overnight.

My main suggestion would be to trim the trivia, reword the very blatantly copied information, and properly cite Dex entries they come from as a start. From there, I'd suggest trying to see if you can find some help in a search for sources. From what I know of prior Pokemon source searches, there's definitely at least one or two bits and bobs of reception for most Pokemon in existence, but going through all 1010+ species and their forms by yourself is something that would take months. I'd be willing to lend a hand where possible, given the nature of this whole thing, but I heavily oppose the complete removal of all information related to the Pokemon. It seems detrimental to the reader's understanding of the characters in question. Pokelego999 (talk) 21:17, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, as the one who has tried to do all of this but has been redacted multiple times, I tried my best to NOT make it look like it got copied straight out of the Dex and more of a informative bit to help people understand what it is and about. Have I done it well? Debatable. But I am willing to hear any discussion and so far it seems like we should reword it which I can gladly help with. UB Blacephalon (talk) 05:40, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Ah, apologies if I misconstrued the facts, then. In any case, if we go down the reword path, I'd be happy to help as well. Pokelego999 (talk) 15:41, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

I've been overwhelmed by the sheer amount of uncited information in these lists for a long time. I would be a proponent of just removing all uncited information and everything cited to primary sources. It can be hard to find the most basic information about these iconic creatures in sources that would help us understand what is important about them, but we definitely should not quote the Pokédex! ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 06:40, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

isn't that what the pokedex is for though? To cite useful information about pokemon that poleople dont know about? You can cite the Pokedex as is, and Bulbapedia quotes it as well. UB Blacephalon (talk) 13:01, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

The Pokédex is copyrighted material [2] and as such cannot be extensively quoted WP:NFCCEG. Bulbapedia's goals, policies and guidelines are different from Wikipedia so inclusion of information there should not influence our decision to influence it here. However, from a cursory view (without familiarity to their content inclusion guidelines and policy) this seems to be a suitable place to find exhaustive information on the Pokémon universe, including and not limited to physical descriptions, abilities, personalities, name etymology, media appearances and other trivia for every Pokémon. Shazback (talk) 13:28, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

I will say, in terms of primary sources, that it is possible to cite Pokemon's Official Website. They have a Pokedex section, though it only contains one entry. Here's an example for Ivysaur. Some articles also cite information related to the Pokemon while discussing it in an unrelated manner. I'm using Ivysaur for consistency here, and though this isn't the best example, this article does cite a physical description that can be used. If every description needs to be cited, this is likely the best way to go without quoting the Pokedex in game, which can be used sparingly, worst comes to worst, so long as it isn't overused in the grand scheme of the article. Method should be "find descriptions in reliable sources" followed by "quote Pokemon.com as a last resort" followed by "quote the actual Pokedex as a backup" unless there's a better way I've missed out there. Pokelego999 (talk) 15:56, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

You know, instead of the "In game universe" stuff we could just plainly say "All information can be found on Pokemons website and the Pokedex." And then cite it. UB Blacephalon (talk) 16:16, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Or just leave it off entirely. The majority of in-game information is not relevant to the purposes of Wikipedia, unless it is information reported by reliable 3rd-party sources. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:30, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Descriptions of the characters are helpful for the reader's understanding. For instance, there technically isn't a need for plot summary in a fictional character article, nor is there a need to describe personality and characteristics of the character. And yet we do it anyway. This is because to better understand the character in question, the information is necessary for figuring out who they are in the grand scheme of things. How am I meant to know what an Ivysaur is without a description? Sure I could just look it up on Bulbapedia or something, but if our policy is just to redirect users to other sites, then what's the point of having a Wikipedia article? At that point it's just a glorified disambiguation page. Wikipedia readers should be able to understand even just the bare basics of a character just from a quick scroll on this site, not from searches that take you elsewhere. Imagine reading a Pokemon article, getting a redirect for Ivysaur, and it tells you to leave elsewhere. You would then need to go to another site, read about Ivysaur there (And in probably more detail than the casual audience would need) and then head back to Wikipedia to continue reading what you were reading before. That makes no sense and it's just a hassle for anyone reading this.

Again, I agree that there's a lot of fluff we can trim, but a complete removal of information is just detrimental to the articles in question. Pokelego999 (talk) 16:54, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

A description is fine, but it should come from reliable third-party sources when possible. WP:FANCRUFT is not desirable, which means dex entries are out, as are rewrites of such. "Ivysaur is a grass-poison type middle evolution of the grass-starter Bulbasaur." is a perfectly valid description that doesn't stray into fancruft, and could be cited to numerous reliable 3rd-party sources. For hints on how to proceed with what to leave in and what to yeet, read WP:BACKWARD which essentially says "start with the sources that are acceptable, and build the article from there". If you are starting with a bunch of text you want to include, and then go looking for sources, you are failing. - UtherSRG (talk) 17:06, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Ah, my apologies, I misunderstood what you were meaning. I agree with your approach. Pokelego999 (talk) 17:18, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Sure, but if we can cite the Pokedex as a course, we can trim somethings down but there still needs a basic understanding, and that's exactly what the Pokedex is. UB Blacephalon (talk) 17:25, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

on an unrelated note, the plural of "pokémon" is "pokémon", which applies to the individual species

so in that example, seeing the word "pidgeots" felt like the literary equivalent of stubbing my toe on a ceramic vase with enough force to break it

before considering removing fancruft, copyvio and traits that are entirely informed in the pokédex and not shown in the games, someone _{(possibly me)} should at least try to do some-thing about the grammers cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 18:38, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

I completely agree. That's actually sometimes why I do it. So I can see a better way of writing it. Also that analogy was hilarious. UB Blacephalon (talk) 19:03, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

in the process of editing it for wording's sake, most of the entries are full of clearly opinionated sentences with no sources, such as "the best thing about machop is that its muscles never get sore"

i don't think i have the skill or time to spot and replace them all with more objective wording, but i'll try

still better than the list of tmnt characters cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 19:12, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Yeah ill still input them in but who knows if I'm allowed to anymore. UB Blacephalon (talk) 21:21, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

I need help

This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I am seeking assistance in writing a comprehensive and accurate wiki page for Afleece Johnson. Unfortunately, there are numerous false articles circulating, containing incorrect information about his birthday and suggesting that Assf from the Kite Runner is his father. Additionally, these articles claim that he assaulted 157 men and participated in a fictional battle royal. While he is known as the "Booty Warrior," it is challenging to find a reliable and definitive source to verify these claims. I am wondering if there is a way to gather ideas and receive help without creating a new post that may not be in good faith. Is it possible for us to collaboratively write the article, where I can vet the content with a group and ensure its accuracy before locking it? Alternatively, could I volunteer to contribute to the article and allow the community to write it, while I provide a specific timeframe for completion? Another option could be arranging an interview with Afleece Johnson, where any information found to be untrue can be challenged and corrected. I believe any new sources I come across may be in bad faith, so I have included a link to my notion explaining the false articles. I appreciate your assistance in making this wiki page https://www.notion.so/Media-Kit-For-Fleece-Johnson-cc43fc4e41574829aa8d5fb3fc15716a?pvs=4 Mimisavou (talk) 15:27, 21 August 2023 (UTC) Wikipedia has no article titled Afleece Johnson and it is not the purpose of Wikipedia to counter what you perceive as incorrect information elsewhere. Neither will any article you create be "locked", as you put it. Wikipedia articles are based solely on reliable sources. First gather those sources, then see WP:YFA. Shantavira|feed me 15:33, 21 August 2023 (UTC) Teahouse Hosts are here to advise about things Wikipedian, but not be co-authors. Birth of an article is typically a one-person effort through getting a draft approved (but after that, other can can will edit). Interviews with a topic of an article are not accepted as reliable source references (people lie about themselves - who knew?). David notMD (talk) 15:35, 21 August 2023 (UTC) my apologies fleece johnson all the sources are false because he was Made into character on the show the boondock His birthday is even right on all the sources Mimisavou (talk) 15:36, 21 August 2023 (UTC) I understand you're saying but my fear is that if I write the Wiki that I will never get approved. Because I can't, I just there's not any sources that are true. His birthday isn't true. It says that Assf from the kite runner is his father. On most sources, it's all lies. Because he was a cartoon character on the TV show That he didn't approve of and hes been kind of like a meme for the past 15 years Mimisavou (talk) 15:38, 21 August 2023 (UTC) https://www.notion.so/cc43fc4e41574829aa8d5fb3fc15716a I'm not sure if this link will take you to like a webpage or you can see it. But this is all the sources that I could compile on him none of them have his of things right, some of them are straight up memes other negatively affecting his life. And I'm just trying to get some kind of help. What should I do? I'm sorry if I chose the wrong board. Mimisavou (talk) 15:41, 21 August 2023 (UTC) OK, but I know that they're false. Because his father is not a fictional character in the Taliban. That was in the book, the kite runner. So if there's no sources and the only sources that I have is police documentation or court documentation and I can't post court documentation how am I supposed to get this man a Wikipedia that is of correct information? I don't understand how I'm supposed to do this because it doesn't make sense to me. How can I get him a truthful article written all the articles that I've sent that are on there. It says that his father is a Seth. We all know that hes not a fictional character. I can I get any suggestions? Can I get anything of how to deal with this? Because this is like the man has lost jobs, a man has lost money. The man has lost so much of his life because of false articles. When I watch his videos and it hurts me. And I'm trying to figure out how to help him. I don't understand what could help me and II don't understand how to get information of what could help me. Do you have any places that could help me figure out how to get him a Wikipedia article that you're using court documentation and YouTube interviews like I don't, I don't know what to do. Mimisavou (talk) 15:51, 21 August 2023 (UTC) @Mimisavou You seem to be ignoring the fact that Fleece Johnson is a fictional character. Thus nothing is negatively affecting his life. Wikipedia does have some articles on fictional characters and the relevant notability guideline is WP:NFICTION. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:54, 21 August 2023 (UTC) @Michael D. Turnbull I think they are referring to the actual person Fleece Johnson who was satirised on The Boondocks? He appeared in one episode of an MSNBC documentary it seems. @Mimisavou I don't believe the real person, Fleece Johnson, would pass the strict Wikipedia:Notability (people) criteria and therefore cannot have a Wikipedia article. Only people who meet the criteria set out in that Wikipedia policy document can have articles written about them. Qcne (talk) 15:59, 21 August 2023 (UTC) I'm crying right now because this is crazy. Hes a real person, hes a real person. Hes a real person, and that's a problem that we're having. Hes a real breathing living person. Who's lost multiple jobs? See, that's my issue, that's my issue. Hes a real person, and the fact that you did some research, and you said that hes not a real person is horrible, and this makes him lose real jobs, this makes him not be able to go on, do a lot of things that makes him not be able to feed his family, and that's why I'm asking for help. How can I get him an article written? When you just did the research yourself and seeing that. All the articles are so fake that you think that hes a fake person? Mimisavou (talk) 16:00, 21 August 2023 (UTC) @Mimisavou you cannot write an article about the real person Fleece Johnson, he does not pass the Wikipedia:Notability (people) criteria. If we let anyone create an article about anyone we would have billions of articles. Hopefully you can see that is not a productive use of an online encyclopaedia. Please, give up this crusade. It is not Wikipedia's place to right any wrongs or be a soapbox for change. Qcne (talk) 16:04, 21 August 2023 (UTC) Wikipedia does not have an article about Fleece Johnson. Your comments about there being published false information about him may make it extremely difficult to create an article with reliable source references. P.S. Your listing published content that you believe false is of no help in creating a Wikipedia article.David notMD (talk) 15:43, 21 August 2023 (UTC) @Mimisavou: What should you do? On Wikipedia, you should do nothing about this, and edit constructively in other areas. Among the many things that Wikipedia is not, Wikipedia is definitely not a place for righting great wrongs. It is not the place to "set the record straight". If sources have errors, then contact those sources to retract or correct their errors. Wikipedia does not exist to do that. ~Anachronist (talk) 15:53, 21 August 2023 (UTC) I refuse to do nothing. This is a real person getting persecuted because of the internet and Wikipedia I always thought was supposed to be a reliable source that was trusted by people and I'm trying to get him an article on on this platform. And you guys are telling me hes not a real person? I should do nothing so he should keep on losing jobs. He should keep on not being able to feed his family. He should keep on being a homeless, that's sad. Mimisavou (talk) 16:01, 21 August 2023 (UTC) @Mimisavou the United Nations states that around 1.6 billion people worldwide live in inadequate housing or homelessness. We obviously cannot have an article for them all. Being homeless does not in itself make a person notable enough to be included on Wikipedia. Qcne (talk) 16:06, 21 August 2023 (UTC) this is is crazy what are youn even saying? Do you understand what I'm asking? I'm asking how can I get a article approved for a person who is mainly on youtube and all the articles written on them are false and referencing each other. I have Been told he is not a real person,we don't care about homeless people and to do nothing I have not got anyhelp or advice of what thread to go to. I know I will not have the sources to get article approved. He gets a million views a week he has been talked about in 100's of sources.i just want to know how to write article when I can't get proper sources because his name was turned into a meme. Wikipedia is a place where you can trust the information. I can't use Court papers,it's bad faith to creat new articles. Why is no one giving me help but just acting like I'm crazy or asking something crazy. Mimisavou (talk) 16:38, 21 August 2023 (UTC) I'm asking how can I get a article approved for a person who is mainly on youtube and all the articles written on them are false and referencing each other. The answer is: you can't. The only help we can give you is to advise you to stop wasting your time on this. MrOllie (talk) 16:45, 21 August 2023 (UTC) He's a real person, but we have to base Wikipedia articles on reliable sources. You're telling us all the sources out there are unreliable, so we have nothing to work with. Wikipedia simply isn't the proper venue for you to do this. MrOllie (talk) 16:06, 21 August 2023 (UTC) @Mimisavou, please try to calm down. I don't think Wikipedia is the right place for you to be talking about Fleece Johnson right now, and I don't think this Teahouse thread is very helpful to you, right now. Do you like taking walks? Whatever method you use to calm down, I think it would be a good time to do so - it's important to remember to stay cool when the editing gets hot. casualdejekyll 16:22, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

my article: feedback

Edbrig is a Global branding agency that offers specialized branding solutions for start-ups and small to medium-sized businesses. With international offices in India, U.S.A, and U.A.E.

As an International Agency, Edbrig provides a range of services, encompassing branding, advertising, communications, public relations, and more. catering to the diverse needs of its clientele.

Awards

2022

Sortlist by 'Best Branding Agency' Award in Miami

Design Rush recognized edbrig as one of the 'Best Package Design Agency’ in Florida, USA

UpCity featured edbrig in the ‘top 30 branding and design agencies’ in the USA

2023

The Manifest's list of ‘top 100 branding agencies’ in 2023

top 100 advertising agencies in India in 2023

‘Clutch’ acknowledged Edbrig's ‘proficiency in corporate branding’ Braanding (talk) 15:58, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

@Braanding your article has zero references. Every single statement in your article must be sourced, please see the policy: Wikipedia:Verifiability.

But more importantly, I also do not think the company passes the Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) threshold. This means it cannot have an article at this time. Only companies that pass the strict criteria set out on that notability police can have a Wikipedia article.

Remember: Wikipedia is not a place for any type of self-promotion or advertisement. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia: not an advertising platform, directory, or a way to promote a subject. It is not a social media site like LinkedIn or Facebook.

Hope that helps, Qcne (talk) 16:02, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

thank you so much for your feedback! I read the notability section right now, but it states that an agency for example to have page needs to be highlighted in a trustable source. what does that even mean? cause I keep getting flagged. but just more confused every time. so if you could please highlight the 3 main reasons why this agency can not have a wikipedia page at the moment, id really appreciate it! Braanding (talk) 16:08, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

You don't need three reasons because failing WP:NCORP is enough for us not to have an article. Theroadislong (talk) 16:15, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Sure, three reasons:

- the company does not pass the Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) criteria.

- the article has no sources. Sources must be 1) from reliable places and 2) be independent of the subject

- the article seems to exist only to promote the company. This is not permitted, please see Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. Qcne (talk) 16:15, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Can I use Wikipedia Images in an Academic Paper?

I'm writing a paper on some work I did with the Allen model for temporal reasoning. I want to have some simple graphics that explain what the Allen model is and the first figure in this article is exactly what I want. I could reproduce the image in Powerpoint but I would rather just copy/paste that image into my paper (of course with proper attribution). Both to save time and to recognize Wikipedia. Whenever I publish an academic paper I always have to sign a bunch of forms that say I have the rights to use any images so I just want to make sure: is this allowed and is there any specific language I should use to give attribution to Wikipedia? MadScientistX11 (talk) 16:20, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @MadScientistX11! Yes, you almost always can use Wikipedia images in this context. See Commons:Reusing content outside Wikimedia for more information. casualdejekyll 16:24, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

However, upon checking the article you linked, I don't see any images at all.. are you referring to the table showing the base relations? That would be text, which is licensed under Help:Copyright - you still can most likely use it, but there are other considerations. casualdejekyll 16:28, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Oh, and I need to clarify: This is not legal advice. I am not a lawyer. Please see Wikipedia:Legal disclaimer for more information. casualdejekyll 16:29, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Need to update the brand logo

I am an employee at Livingston International, and recently, we underwent a brand overhaul, which involved redesigning our logo. I require assistance with the process of uploading the updated logo, as I am currently encountering an issue where the system prevents me from overwriting the existing file. Your support in this matter would be greatly valued. Manjeetcares (talk) 16:39, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

@Manjeetcares, you have already asked this at the help desk, and received a reply there. Here is a link to it: Help desk post. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:55, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Manjeetcares,

Have you tried following the instructions you were given at Wikipedia:FFU? NotAGenious (talk) 16:58, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Done. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:30, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Blocked on my mobile phone

Sometimes when I am away from home I am blocked from editing Wikipedia on my phone. This has always seemed to be because of an issue with the WiFi I was using and was always fine when I came home. Now I am blocked on my mobile phone even at home, and on PC I am getting Notices about vandalism at User talk:66.234.206.84. Could someone point me towards help to regain editing access on my phone and make sure my account isn't somehow linked to editing taking place at some public IP address? Thanks for any help Mgp28 (talk) 17:53, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mgp28 - That IP you link isn't blocked..? Regardless, if you sign in to your Wikipedia account, you should be allowed to edit even on blocked IP addresses. The only exception is if the address is hardblocked, which most aren't. If it is hardblocked, you need to be IP-Block exempt to edit logged in, which you can find more information about at WP:IPBE. casualdejekyll 18:00, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mgp28 I just wanted to check you aren't trying to edit on a browser like Opera, or with some other browser with a VPN active? That could well give you a 'blocked' message when you try to edit (it scared my silly the first time I experienced doing that). Nick Moyes (talk) 19:49, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

As much as I love the Opera browser, that VPN feature has gotten me into too much trouble for me to use that feature anymore. I had been actively contributing to physicsforums.com (using the desktop Opera) when suddenly my account was banned for sockpuppetry, apparently because others were posting to the site using the same IP address. It took over a year for me to get unbanned. ~Anachronist (talk) 20:08, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you all for your comments. I didn’t think I had a VPN turned on but I found iCloud was encrypting my IP address. Now I’ve deactivated that everything is back to normal.

(I still have the notifications for that other IP address. The fact that that address isn’t blocked just makes it seem even stranger.) Mgp28 (talk) 20:48, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mgp28 Glad you solved it. The fact that other IP address isn't blocked is that it didn't do enough damage in the handful of edits they made a few days ago, and they have since ceased. Our increasing levels of warning messages often make a user aware that if they continue, they'll be blocked. We rarely block IP addresses for long, as many other people may well be using it - a whole school, for example (some years ago I once found an administrator had blocked the entire mobile phone network that I and half the UK were on!). Blocking is done for preventative reasons, not punitive ones. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 15:59, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Babel

i cant seem to figure out how to use it Ducklan (talk) 18:30, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

For context, I assume this refers to Wikipedia:Babel, not similarly-named software out there in the world. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:33, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

yes but i think i figuered it out but how do you get to non visual editor because that's what was stopping me Ducklan (talk) 18:39, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

figured it out sorry for the miss spelling Ducklan (talk) 18:40, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

@Ducklan, when I'm editing a page, I can switch between visual editor (if available) and source editor using the little pencil icon in the upper right corner 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:59, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello Ducklan! I fixed the Babel template on your userpage. You have to edit it in source mode. If you're at a different level of English, you can add that there. Asparagusus (interaction) 18:38, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

thank you very much Ducklan (talk) 18:39, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

lost page!!

We have a page called Planet Home, that was started by a member of our community.. how can I locate it, and how can I publish it? 75.80.110.77 (talk) 22:32, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Are you referring to Planet Home, which is currently a redirect to Synkronized? Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 23:07, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to the Teahouse. I can't find any evidence that there has ever been an article called Planet Home, other than the redirect that Edward pointed to; or a draft called Draft:Planet Home; or a user sandbox that contains the phrase "Planet Home". Are you perhaps thinking of some other site than Wikipedia?

Note that Wikipedia has encyclopaedia articles, rather than just "pages for". If I'm right in guessing that "Planet Home" is the name of your community, then it would not be appropriate for there to be a Wikipedia article about it unless it meets Wikipedia's criteria for notability, (basically that it has been written about in some depth by people entirely unconnected with it). ColinFine (talk) 12:39, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Richmond, Bayham, Ontario

This was my first ever post. I failed to provide citations and have now added one but need to know if it is acceptable. I found the video on adding citations and will continue to read tutorials. BestCorinth1867 (talk) 02:16, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

BestCorinth1867, the draft is not super readable. There is a lot of fluff in which you talk about other towns named Richmond. I'm not sure about the reliability of the source you provided, but it, along with the Bayham, Ontario article, does verify that Richmond is a real place.

A 'community' doesn't seem like a legally recognized administrative division of Canada, and so it wouldn't satisfy WP:GEOLAND. You would have to prove notability through the general notability guideline. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 03:07, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Please someone help me, please review

Hello, I would like to Requesting Help Member for review to draft submissions Draft:Wytze Russchen DMMKL (talk) 04:19, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi. I reviewed your submission for a few minutes. Overall, I think it looks good, and it will almost certainly be accepted eventually. I made some minor copy-edits, but there may be some more work required before the article is ready for publication. I've bookmarked the draft so that I can come back to it later. Thanks for your contribution! Pecopteris (talk) 04:32, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello @DMMKL and welcome to the Teahouse! Your draft is in line for review; please be patient. As the template at the top of the draft says, it might take up to several months to be reviewed by an Articles for Creation reviewer. Happy editing! Grumpylawnchair (talk) 04:33, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Adding Romanized Chinese

I am used to adding Romanized Korean but made a page containing Chinese text that should be Romanized; Gary Shiu. I am unsure where to ask. if anyone can assist I would very much appreciate it. ₪RicknAsia₪ 04:26, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

@Rickinasia, WT:CHINA would probably have someone who can help.

You didn't directly ask about this, but one quick thing I observe looking at Gary Shiu is that you begin by writing that he is a Chinese-American theoretical physicist. I'm not sure if this is recorded somewhere as guidance or just general best practice, but if he was not born in China — I avoid beginning articles with someone's ethnic background unless it's particularly relevant to their notability (e.g. if he were an anti-Asian hate activist). We'd never include the ethnic background of someone with e.g. German ancestry in their article, so the same standard should apply for bios of people of color. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 04:57, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Ah, looks like it's at MOS:ETHNICITY. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 04:58, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

I've added the pinyin and jyutping romanizations into the infobox. bibliomaniac15 06:39, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Wonderful. Thank you so much, I really appreciate it :) ₪RicknAsia₪ 01:07, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Regarding which English to use in any given article

Is there a standard depending on where the article is about, or what is the case? I assume it is American English since I have seen the double quotation marks used in place of the singular ones. It has most likely already been answered somewhere, still, I ask. Monocéfalo (talk) 04:35, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

It depends on the subject and also what is already being used in the article. See WP:ENGVAR RudolfRed (talk) 04:47, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

For punctuation guidelines, specifically, see MOS:PUNCT, @Monocéfalo. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:12, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

looking for experts at wiki should assist me with articles in my draft or sandbox

looking for "NYC [Fire Department] buffs" who are experts at wiki should assist me with articles in my draft or sandbox

that's one of many i started to create

Draft:New York City Fire chief of department BetterThen ever (talk) 07:35, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

No, BetterThen ever. If you think that there should be an article on "New York City Fire chief of department" (incidentally, a very strange sounding title), then you get some reliable sources, you summarize what these say (of course avoiding plagiarism) and attribute each part of what you write to the respective source, you take the trouble to get the formatting right; and then, when it will be obvious that you have put effort into your draft, you'll be welcome to ask for help with certain specifics of the draft. The draft will then have a fighting chance of being accepted as an article (though with an amended title). Unlike the version I declined a few minutes ago.

I am alarmed to read of drafts that's one of many i started to create. Please don't. Just work to get one draft into a decent state. Once you've succeeded, you may move on to another draft. -- Hoary (talk) 07:56, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

I had put in allot of effort in few articles I'm collecting the info for it just i am new writing on wiki and don't have experience in layout or how to source so I'm requesting help by those interested in those topics and you won't turn me down thanks anyway that's a nice welcome anyhow thank you trying to help me in your way I'm sure you meant good BetterThen ever (talk) 08:35, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

btw its not strange at all and don't be alarmed. stay safe BetterThen ever (talk) 08:37, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @BetterThen ever. I think before you start editing and creating articles you should read the following guide, which provides lots of helpful tips: Help:Contents.

Creating a new article is one of the hardest things to do on Wikipedia, especially for a new Editor, so I would suggest first you improve some articles. You can find some articles that need improving at Special:Homepage. That will guide you through the process.

I would highly recommend not creating multiple poorly formatted and referenced draft articles, as they will all be declined or rejected.

Let us know if you have any specific questions, Qcne (talk) 08:49, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately the considerable effort you have put into this article appears to constitute original research, which is not permitted here. You need to scrap all this and start by finding three reliable sources on the topic and then summarize what they say. Before taking this any further please read Wikipedia:Everything you need to know. Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:59, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

how many stars are there?

how many stars are in the sky? 2600:1700:F560:C1E0:C1C8:8460:987B:17DE (talk) 08:36, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi IP editor. This is a forum for asking questions on how to edit Wikipedia- not for general queries about life, the universe, and everything. Please try using www.google.com to answer your question. Qcne (talk) 08:45, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia in which you can search for the answer to questions such as this. If you read our article on stars, it says in the first paragraph The observable universe contains an estimated 10²² to 10²⁴ stars. Only about 4,000 of these stars are visible to the naked eye. Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:49, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Can't edite semiprotected page

Hello, I found an error in one of the pages that were semiprotected so I tried to fix it and although I'm an autoconfirmed account, I couldn't? Noha Mokhtar (talk) 11:38, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

@NohaMokhtareg: which page? — TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 11:49, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

@NohaMokhtareg: You're not autoconfirmed ([3]). Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 12:42, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

I found a broken link on the resources section, I've tried to replace it with one that is working but it was removed with a note that it's a spam Noha Mokhtar (talk) 12:50, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

The link you tried to replace wasn't a real source/reference, and spam too. It has also been removed; we need no how tos. Lectonar (talk) 12:56, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Does this article meet the GNG criteria?

Does the article meet the GNG criteria? Also can you check to see that the article is cited properly. User:Pjanvi1008/sandbox Pjanvi1008 (talk) 13:16, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

@Pjanvi1008 Welcome to the Teahouse. I realise I'm not addressing your question, but my immediate reaction to the lead paragraph was to ask myself which part of the world this person's position relates to. Is it India, Texas, South London? I have no idea, and I could find no simple answer. I feel you may have assumed the reader already knows lots of things that you understand, whereas that probably isn't the case. Nick Moyes (talk) 13:44, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. There's a lack of WP:CONTEXT. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 13:51, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

@Pjanvi1008 Your current references #3 and #4 could be combined into one using named references. However, Wikipedia consensus is that CESNUR is not a reliable source (see WP:RSPS). Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:01, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

revdel

Why were over a hundred revisions of this page revision-deleted? Just curious. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 13:50, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Looks like crypto wallet spam with potentially identifying information and/or harmful links. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 13:56, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Yikes. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 13:58, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

@Edward-Woodrow: Just as an FYI, 2 strikes means it was a suppression, not a revision deletion. If it was just a revdel you would have been able to see the summary for said deletion in the logs of the page. – 2804:F14:8083:8C01:BCE8:F242:4596:220C (talk) 14:15, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

I've been here a year and I never even noticed double lines vs. Single line. Knitsey (talk) 14:18, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Ah, thank-you. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 14:19, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Domain Blocked for No Reason

Hello, I don't know why but wikipedia has added my this www.tecnofy.xyz domain in blacklist for no reason how can I add it to whitelist Alltheuser (talk) 14:00, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

@Alltheuser: Why do you want to remove it from the spam blacklist? Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 14:03, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Honestly, on browsing the site, it looks like spam already. So, I'm not surprised it's on the Spam blacklist. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 14:05, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 14:09, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

@Alltheuser And your only other edit has been to add linkspam, which I have reverted. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:13, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Although they've certainly tried elsewhere. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 14:20, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

I have given @Alltheuser an 'only warning' for spamming us with rubbish. My antivirus showed their site as infected and blocked it. Any attempt to add dubious links or personal blogs will result in them being blocked. Nick Moyes (talk) 15:52, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank-you. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 16:13, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

@Alltheuser, if it is your website, any request you make to remove it from the blacklist will be declined. See here. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:36, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

@Edward-Woodrow: @Vanderwaalforces: Just to be clear, that site tecnofy.xyz isn't on the blacklist. The entire .xyz TLD is blacklisted. Requests can be made to whitelist specific pages (not domains) at MediaWiki talk:Spam-whitelist. Requests from site owners or anyone with a conflict of interest are summarily declined. ~Anachronist (talk) 05:49, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@Anachronist oh, right. That makes sense now. Thanks for clearing. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 06:41, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Should street maps be presented as box drawings (text art)?

For example, this is a box drawing map on the article Sparks Street:

│ │====│ │==== ==│ │===== │ │===   │ │== == │ │=====╰╮  ╰╮ ==╭╯ ╭╯
│ │====│ │====   │ │===== │ │===   │ │      │ │      │   │  │  │
┘ └────┘ └───────┘ └──────┘ └──────┘ └──────┘ └──────┘   ╰--╯ ╭╯
                   Sparks Street                             │ 
┐ ┌────┐ ┌───────┐ ┌──────┐ ┌──────┐ ┌──────┐ ┌──────────┐  ╭╯
│B│    │L│==     │K│======│B│  === │O│      │M│====      │E │
│a│    │y│==     │e│======│a│  === │C│      │e│====      │l │
│y│    │o│       │n│      │n│      │o│      │t│          │g │
│ │    │n│       │t│      │k│      │n│      │c│          │i │
│ │    │ │       │ │      │ │      │n│      │a│          │n │
│ │    │ │       │ │      │ │      │o│      │l│          │  │
│ │    │ │       │ │      │ │      │r│      │f│          │  │
│ │    │ │       │ │      │ │      │ │      │e│          │  │

Should this be converted to an image or a map similar to the ones typically shown in infoboxes? LOOKSQUARE (👤️·🗨️) talk 15:07, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

There may have been use for graphics like this decades ago, but currently Wikipedia uses a robust automated mapping system Wikipedia:Maplink, which uses the Open Street Map system. I'm not terribly familiar with the system myself, but there's documentation linked from that page on how to use it, and there is also Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Map workshop which is a place to request that maps be made for you by someone with more experience. --Jayron32 15:27, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Please. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 16:11, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

I never knew Wikipedia had articles on individual Nethack levels. Folly Mox (talk) 00:56, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

A few questions about making an article

Hello. I am planning on making a draft for a record label and I have a few questions. There isn't much about it online yet but I've found some good sources and think it could become an article. I've compiled a discography of almost all the labels 40 or so releases and was thinking it would be good for the article as the information is only available in fragmented form online. The label had a special numbering system running from I think P1. to P 42 with a few extras. Only problem is, I've found no sources for P1 to P9. This means the discography table would be incomplete. Should I still add it in hopes someone adds the rest later? Or would having an incomplete table look bad? The other thing I'm wondering is how do I make a draft? I've made some before but I've forgotten which steps to take now as it's been a while. Sorry for the long question, thanks in advance! Clyde Jimpson of the Arkansas String Beans (talk) 16:16, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

@Clyde Jimpson of the Arkansas String Beans Welcome to Teahouse!

You can make a draft at AfC. If there are no reliable sources online for P1 to P9, then, as you said, they shouldn't be added because there's nothing to back up the claims. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:19, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the pointers. It's not that there's no reliable sources, there's not sources at all. I was just thinking a discography table would look weird if nine areas were blank. I have reliable info for the rest of the discs. Not sure if this changes anything. Clyde Jimpson of the Arkansas String Beans (talk) 16:24, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

@Clyde Jimpson of the Arkansas String Beans Create the draft and AfC reviewers would do their job :) Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:45, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Alright thank you! Clyde Jimpson of the Arkansas String Beans (talk) 16:56, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

How to do RFC for phrasing

I added the RFC tag to an edit request I made on the India lage which is what I was instructed to do and someone else edited and removed the RFC tag and then a couple of days later the whole edit request is closed with warning to me not to edit the section. I am not savvy with coding and html, kindly help me. Roaly3 (talk) 16:36, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

@Roaly3 Hi again. If this is about this, then I think you should follow Pecopteris's advise. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:44, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

@Roaly3, the instructions are at Wikipedia:Requests for comment#Creating an RfC. Adding an RFC tag to your edit request is not the way to go. Read the page I linked and follow the steps. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:54, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Citing a record.

I'm writing a draft and have included a description of the physical appearance of a record. How would I cite the record itself? It's a Columbia Patriotic Series Record from 1914, "Boys in Khaki, Boys in Blue" by Stanley Kirby, Flip side, "Your King and Country Need You" by Harrison Latimer. Here's an image from Discogs of the disc in question, https://www.discogs.com/release/26662835-Harrison-Latimer-Stanley-Kirkby-Your-King-And-Country-Need-You-Boys-In-Khaki-Boys-In-Blue/image/SW1hZ2U6OTMyMDY3ODA=. Do I need to cite both sides of the record or just one side? Thanks in advance! Clyde Jimpson of the Arkansas String Beans (talk) 17:21, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Clyde. In general, if you can't cite a secondary source for something, don't mention the something. There are exceptions, but on the whole this is a good rule of thumb for what should go into an article. ColinFine (talk) 18:48, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

My understanding (which could be wrong) is that published items - which include recordings except for self-produced ones, probably - exist in their own right and do not need secondary sources to prove that they exist. I did some of this myself back in 2016 when I created the list of releases Celtic Music (record label) (note also, that there were some potential numbers that I could not trace; my guess at the time was that those had never been released, but the question was open). In earlier articles I gave links (as references/citations) for every recording to external listings like discogs as "sources", but those links got deleted by some enthusiastic editor ("Wikipedia is not a link farm" or similar), hence my understanding that such links are not necessary or are even frowned upon. Regarding your particular question: I would use standard discographical practice; for a single or 78, that would be "Title of side A"/"Title of side B" I think, but you should check some standard discographies; if the artists are not the same on each side; you would cite them individually as well. However please be aware that my knowledge of this subject may be incomplete and others may have more complete or accurate advice on this. Tony 1212 (talk) 19:51, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks so much. Only thing I dont know is the formatting for citing records. Clyde Jimpson of the Arkansas String Beans (talk) 21:03, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Just look at the source (via edit view) of any page that does this already, in a style you wish to emulate. You should be able to find suitable examples without much difficulty. Tony 1212 (talk) 22:23, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Some more info here: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lists_of_works#Discographies Tony 1212 (talk) 23:32, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

At the risk of confusing you completely - I always thought that, to some degree, you can format discographies to "suit the material" and/or your own editorial preferences. For example, my own "discography" efforts (lists of titles) tend to comprise bulleted lists, see e.g. see Isla Cameron#Discography. I thought this was fine, however now see that another editor has written both "This section needs additional citations for verification" and "This section should be written as a table.". Actually if I could be bothered I might possibly dispute both those statements, however... By contrast, someone else's discography for Robert Johnson at Robert Johnson recordings#Singles does use a table, so that is perhaps a format you might prefer to emulate... Good luck. (As you can see I am just an editor, not an admin or article reviewer :) ) Tony 1212 (talk) 06:28, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia:WikiProject_Discographies/style#Citations and references, each item in a discography doesn't need a separate citation; a single general citation can cover the whole lot (excepting controversial or surprising notes, which need individual inline citations). Per WP:RSP, Discogs.com has been discussed numerous times, and the general consensus is that, because it is a "user-generated" site, it is mostly unreliable. However, Allmusic.com is probably reliable for its discography information, its material is staff-generated and other than BLP-related information (which is questionable) it should otherwise be fine for discographies. --Jayron32 12:39, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Regarding styling a discography - my advice would be, just get the information/items in there in a format you are happy with; to quote other recent advice on a different topic, "others can restructure, reorganise, or reword them later without your assistance" (thanks Folly Mox). All entered text is available to be further reformatted at some point over its Wikipedia lifetime so its initial format is not something to worry about too much :) Tony 1212 (talk) 20:30, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

How can I prevent opinion sources from influencing bias?

This guideline is a little confusing to me, epecially "reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective"

How does Wikipedia uphold the Neutral Point of View guideline when all claims made must be from sources which largely hold bias in themselves? Is it not inevitable that opinion sources hold some bias in the things they report, such as selectively choosing what to report on to fit their political leanings? Even if you are allowed to cite opinion sources, how do you ensure that the opinion does not leak into the article?

I don't want to choose articles to cite from that may be placing undue weight on certain aspects to fit their leanings so would love some advice on this.

Thanks TenToe (talk) 17:48, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, TenToe. That issue is dealt with in the very first sentence of the Wikipedia:Reliable sources guideline, where it says making sure that all majority and significant minority views that have appeared in those sources are covered. Sources that are clearly opinion should never be used to verify statements of fact in Wikipedia's voice, but can be used to verify the opinion, attributed such as "Political commentator John Jones said that . . ." or "The editorial board of The Daily News said that . . ." Cullen328 (talk) 18:35, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi Cullen328. Thanks for your response. So where the guideline says "reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective", such sources should only be used when stating opinions held about the article's subject, as opposed to information about the nature of the subject itself? TenToe (talk) 22:01, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

That is not what I said, TenToe. A biased source is not the same as an opinion source. For example, the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal are biased in favor of upholding the US Constitution and American values. That does not mean that all of their articles are opinion articles. Similarly, mainstream newspapers in the UK or France may have a bias in favor of their national values. That is natural and to be expected. Not all bias is bad, but summarizing a variety of reliable sources helps mitigate the bias in an article. Cullen328 (talk) 22:11, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

I see. Apologies for the misunderstanding. When I said opinion sources, I meant to say biased sources.

So a biased source (such as WSJ and The Times) can be used to state fact, so long as the source is reliable.

However, an opinion source (such as The Guardian's opinion pieces) should be used only to verify opinion, such as in a 'critical reception' section of an article, or can it also be used to verify facts? Like if one of the writers says 'John Jones has done so and so', I can use that to cite that John Jones has done that thing? TenToe (talk) 17:20, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Spiderman 4 fan film

There should be an article that talks about the upcoming Spiderman 4 fan film.[4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CTGBwAL6qw [5]https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9765564/ 190.21.177.42 (talk) 17:49, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi IP editor, welcome to the Teahouse. It's very rare for a film - especially a fan film - to receive any coverage in reliable, independent, published secondary sources before it is released. Please see WP:42 to get an idea of what articles are based on. Perhaps once it does get released, there will be critical coverage which can be used as the basis for an article. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:01, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello and welcome. This fan film would need to meet the same criteria as other films, see WP:NFILM. 331dot (talk) 18:02, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Citing Discogs

Hello. I am using Discogs as a partial source for my discography. I know Discogs is not considered reliable but it does host pictures of the record discs I am researching. Since I am using information from the physical discs themselves, should I cite the discs instead of Discogs? Clyde Jimpson of the Arkansas String Beans (talk) 18:17, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Please do not cite Discogs, per WP:RSDISCOGS. Please find another source. You may be able to find assistance at Wikipedia:WikiProject Discographies. Cullen328 (talk) 18:24, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

I provided an answer that is related to this on your previous post under "Citing a record." In a nutshell: I believe that if a record exists, it is "self documenting" (a separate source does not need to be cited to verify its existence). Others welcome to weigh in here, though, if my understanding is wrong. Tony 1212 (talk) 20:00, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Also note, even if Discogs is not acceptable as a secondary source, you can link to material there (within reasonable limits e.g. not too many items!) via an "External Links" section if you believe it provides information a reader would find of value that is not available elsewhere. Tony 1212 (talk) 20:03, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Clyde Jimpson of the Arkansas String Beans Cullen328 Tony 1212 Discogs is excellent for one thing imo, and that's for finding real names and aliases.

I update IMDB daily, and on the rare occasions I update a soundtrack (once I've added each individual to the music section first, mainly to get new names on IMDB, so they can be linked in the soundtrack section), songwriters and artists nearly always use their real names for songwriter credits in films and TV shows.

There's at least 3-5 big name music company websites I've stumbled across in the past, when searching to see whether a songwriter/s and the artist/s were the same people, however they're mainly for big name artists.

However Discogs is perfect for finding out the real names or aliases of smaller artists, which you can then use to find better sources elsewhere. Danstarr69 (talk) 12:28, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

No, it REALLY isn't. "The real names or aliases of smaller artists" is square in the middle of WP:BLP territory, and you absolutely shouldn't cite Discogs, a mostly unreliable site, for that information. If you want to use it for your own edification, or to chase down better sources, that's one thing, but basically never cite Discogs in Wikipedia for biographical information. --Jayron32 16:15, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Jayron32 clearly you have trouble reading. Danstarr69 (talk) 20:33, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

how to put signature

i forgot how to put my signature on something when chatting Ducklan (talk) 18:44, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Ducklan, welcome to the Teahouse!

Use ~~~~ at the end of your message - but as you can see the Reply tool sings your posts automatically NotAGenious (talk) 18:48, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much Ducklan (talk) 18:51, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

why is it necessary to put signature if it gets put in anywat Ducklan (talk) 18:56, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

anyway, sorry for the misspelling Ducklan (talk) 18:57, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

The bots that sign unsigned posts do not always work correctly, Ducklan. And why would you want other people to think that you are the type of editor who expects bots take care of your personal business? Cullen328 (talk) 19:03, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

I believe Cullen328 is referring to User:SineBot, which automatically places signatures for you if you forgot to add them. If you are replying by manually editing the talk page, you need to append ~~~~ to the end of your message.

However, if you use the reply tool, it automatically places your signature in for you, which means that you don't have to append ~~~~ to the end of the message. Ca ^{talk to me!} 00:12, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

editing

how do you switch from source editing to visual editing Ducklan (talk) 18:55, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello @Ducklan and welcome to the Teahouse! In the toolbar at the top of your screen, there should be a button (it looks like a pencil) to switch. For a visual, please see Help: VisualEditor. You can also change the default editor in your user preferences. Happy editing! Grumpylawnchair (talk) 20:19, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Editing - returning to part at which I started an edit

Place where edit was started was regarding the Chrysler Museum of Art in Norfolk Virginia. I lacked a second name, which I have recovered since. My source is my own eyeballs, but my suggested text addition could be confirmed by the Curators of the glass collection, whose names are given in the sidebar about the Museum. CAN I GO BACK AND ADD SECOND NAME? HOW LONG DOES THE EDIT REMAIN IN SUSPENSION BEFORE CRASHING AND BEING ERASED? Virginia Refugee (talk) 20:20, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello @Virginia Refugee and welcome to the Teahouse. If you are referring to this edit, please note that you need a published and verifiable reliable source for any information you add to Wikipedia, per Wikipedia's citation policy. Asking or emailing a curator would not be verifiable, as nobody other than you can verify that completely. Your change is archived in the page history for now, and the page history isn't deleted unless the page it belongs to is. You are welcome to add back the second name once you find a reliable/published source that backs it up. Hope this helps. Grumpylawnchair (talk) 20:40, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Yara listen Smith Martinez and Jenny Smith McCarthy

yara Smith Jenny Smith Nicole's Smith Marilyn Smith Marianne Smith 2605:BA00:A208:8BA:99FD:A19:B075:9DDF (talk) 20:31, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello @2605:BA00:A208:8BA:99FD:A19:B075:9DDF and welcome to the Teahouse! Do you have a question about editing Wikipedia? Grumpylawnchair (talk) 20:34, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

What is the best way to get a page taken down restored?

A gymnast page was taken down and they definitelt meet the requirements per WP:Gymnast. 2607:FB91:88AC:52F3:AC39:D1F7:7EBF:622F (talk) 20:44, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello and welcome. It would help to know which article you are referencing in order to be able to give the best answer. 331dot (talk) 20:46, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

If the page was deleted, and you truly believe the subject was notable and the page was well-sourced, etc., then look at Wikipedia:Deletion Review, I suppose. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 20:52, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Per WP:gymnast they are considered notable if they win the all around in the nationals and compete as part of a team in the world championships or Olympics. She won accomplished this in 2022 and has won 5 medals for team usa at the pan am games.

https://members.usagym.org/pages/athletes/nationalTeamRhythmic.html?id=481159 2607:FB91:34F:8A13:AC39:8391:6763:803 (talk) 05:06, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

It was deleted as a result of this discussion: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Emily Wilson (gymnast). Deletion review isn't a process to contest the deletion, it isn't "round 2" of a deletion discussion, it's to review whether the closing administrator applied Wikipedia's policies and guidelines correctly in closing the discussion.

You could also ask the closing administrator whether Emily Wilson (gymnast) could be restored to draft space for you to improve and then submit for review. ~Anachronist (talk) 05:20, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Would it be permitted to register an account that is an alternate capitalization of one's username?

I want to register the doppelgänger account Looksquare, even though it's not out of worry for being impersonated or anything like that. Is that still allowed? LOOKSQUARE (👤️·🗨️) talk 22:10, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, LOOKSQUARE, and welcome to the Teahouse! If you intend to ever edit with that account, such a request would be unlikely to be approved as others would likely not easily recognize that the two accounts were not the same. Note that if you just want to be renamed, you can do that - see WP:RENAME for details. Would you mind explaining why you want the other account? With more information I might be able to help further. Tollens (talk) 22:25, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi Tollens,

I don't want that as my main account, but just as an alias so it's easier for people to type. Is that allowed? I'm not interested in a rename. LOOKSQUARE (👤️·🗨️) talk 22:26, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure what you mean - pinging for example still wouldn't go through to your main account if they used lowercase. If that's fine, and you just want that account's pages to redirect to your user page and talk page, and never plan on editing using that account, it would probably be approved. You'll have to submit a request at WP:ACC as the signup page won't let you since it will be too similar. Tollens (talk) 22:32, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! LOOKSQUARE (👤️·🗨️) talk 23:05, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Creating a source

To verify a source for a few edits I've made, I have photos a yearbook which is the only verifiable evidence I have. How do I go about using that as a source? Joerezi (talk) 23:11, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

In most cases, you can't use private yearbooks as a source - it is unpublished to wider public. If you cannot find reliable, published source about something, it's best not to include it. Ca ^{talk to me!} 00:16, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@Joerezi I'm not 100% sure Ca advice is necessarily quite right in all situations. If the yearbook was a publication produced and sold by the school, and not just a few sheets given to its pupils, then it's likely copies would be available through local libraries, and thus be deemed a proper publication, and available through inter-library loans - and especially so if it had an ISBN number on it (which I think came in around the time you're referring to). The problem with this edit is that you did not cite a source, and thus @User:Tacyarg was quite right to revert it. Putting notes in an edit summary is simply not sufficient - citations need to be in the text of the article, and visible to everyone at all times. I always remove unsubstantiated additions of alumni, but would not do so if a citation to a published school yearbook were included. So, my advice is to reinsert it using a proper citation of title, publisher, year and page number). Nick Moyes (talk) 10:46, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I found this source which contradicts Joerezi's claim about him going to Cardinal Gibbons high school. I would also note that the high school that was already in the article and that this source says he went to is in a completely different state to the school Joerezi claims. Lavalizard101 (talk) 14:04, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I have photo evidence that he was at the school I mentioned as a senior, but I can't use a yearbook as a source, so there's nothing I can do at this point anyway Joerezi (talk) 15:27, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

How can a photo prove someone attended a school? It might prove that they were physically present on school grounds, but not that they were a student there. 331dot (talk) 15:29, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

It's a yearbook there's multiple photos of him in it including his name Joerezi (talk) 15:30, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Joerezi, how can you be sure that it's the same person and not somebody else with the same name? "O'Hurley" is not a particularly exotic surname (we have articles on four different people with it) and "John" is both a very common forename and completely congruent with Irish ancestry. In the US alone there are probably dozens of people named "John O'Hurley". {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.198.140.169 (talk) 19:40, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Joerezi, this source verifies that you are correct. O'Hurley attended Cardinal Gibbons High School for his senior year only. You can cite that source. Cullen328 (talk) 20:07, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

notifications when someone replies to me on a page's talk

I'm not subscribed to any page's talk, but I'd like to be notified by email when someone replies to my comment on a page's talk (not my own user page). In my Preferences, is there such a notification? I have selected notifications for "mentions", but sometimes a reply doesn't mention me. Thanks. rootsmusic (talk) 23:19, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

User:rootsmusic, if you go to Special: Preferences, click "Editing", and then turn on "Enable topic subscription" and "Automatically subscribe to topics", this should have the effect you're seeking. Folly Mox (talk) 01:03, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks @Folly Mox! rootsmusic (talk) 01:32, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Folly Mox I've just done the same with a couple of article talk pages, and will no doubt subscribe to many more article talk pages, but where are my list of subscriptions located? Danstarr69 (talk) 12:04, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@Danstarr69 They are at Special:TopicSubscriptions. Thanks for your question: it prompted me to discover something I had thought about but not found until now! Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:19, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Michael D. Turnbull how do I get there? Danstarr69 (talk) 15:06, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Michael D. Turnbull I've now found that you get there through preferences (although there's probably another slightly quicker way).

However I've created my own quick link button to it on my user page Danstarr69 (talk) 15:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Wow, thanks @Michael D. Turnbull! No idea that was there. Valereee (talk) 16:19, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

How to use nobold and small at the same time?

Hello,

How would you use these two together to make sure something is not bold and is small?

{ {small | example } } and { {nobold|example} }

Thanks KatoKungLee (talk) 01:26, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello @KatoKungLee and welcome to the Teahouse.

It's not necessary to say no bold considering it's not Wikipedia main font.

Just these below are fine:

• {{small|Example}}
• < small > Example < /small >

🛧Layah50♪🛪 ( 話す? 一緒に飛ぼう！) 03:31, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

User:KatoKungLee, I've only ever seen {{nobold}} in infobox headers containing character sets that are never supposed to be bolded or italicised per MOS.

That said, to "double up" on text formatting templates, the syntax is to nest them, like {{small|{{nobold|example text}}}}.

<small> and <big> are no longer supported by all browsers, so using templates is preferable. Folly Mox (talk) 06:59, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

A mistake...

Since I'm italian and I know English enough, I've translated a page and create the draft Russian Tientsin concession, but I noticed that it actually existed. So...

1. Can anybody delete the page pls?
2. When I go in the English page, I don't see the link to the Italian page (better:I see it grey) and same in the Italian page, Can anybody fix this? I don't know how.

Thank you, Bruno Romanin (talk) 05:16, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@Bruno Romanin: If you want to delete a page you created, tag it with {{db-g7}} to request speedy deletion by the page creator. ~Anachronist (talk) 05:37, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

And for the 2nd thing? Anyway, thank you so much. Bruno Romanin (talk) 06:07, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Fixed Bruno Romanin (talk) 06:15, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@Bruno Romanin: Oops, sorry. I trust you found the "add language" link in the language drop-down? ~Anachronist (talk) 14:00, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Convention/style for city gov'ts in the infobox

In the info box for New York City, under the heading of government there's just the type of government, along with the mayor and the name of the governing body. For San Francisco, there is a list of supervisors, as well as the state legislators. Is there any convention regarding this? Should all cities have larger representatives? And what about for smaller towns, should they have the city manager and the mayor as the two such as in San Mateo, California? Artwhitemaster (talk) 07:21, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Artwhitemaster! The place to find this information would be the template page for the city infobox, {{Infobox settlement}}. There will be documentation there that should explain what best practices are. If the documentation is lacking or unclear, then you can start a discussion on the template talk page (it's a widely used template, so you're fairly likely to be able to get a discussion going). Hope that helps, and feel free to ask if you run into any difficulties! Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 15:21, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Almost all cities in the United States are part of larger counties. San Francisco is unique in that it is both a city and a county with the same borders, so it is appropriate to list the members of the county board of supervisors there. New York is unique because it consists of five counties which overlap with its five boroughs. For example, Kings County is geographically the same as Brooklyn. Cullen328 (talk) 17:27, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

As for city managers in places like San Mateo, Artwhitemaster, cities in in California can either be organized with a "strong mayor" form of government, where being mayor is a a full time job with significant powers, or a "weak mayor" form of government, where the role is largely ceremonial, and the day-to-day power is in the hands of a professional city manager. In the second case, listing the city manager in the infobox seems appropriate to me. Cullen328 (talk) 17:35, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Anywhere I can request assistance in verifying an article?

Is there anywhere I can call attention to helping verify an article?

I was reading Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, specifically the section on the escape of his wife Haya and found some rather worrying issues. Sources were used to support content they made no mention of. I think the section could use attention but I don't have the time to verify it all, there are quite a few references I'd have to read. FossilWave (talk) 11:43, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@FossilWave There are over 270 page watchers for this article. So, if you have concerns, I'd suggest you explain them on the talk page at Talk:Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum and invite some of those editors there to address your concerns. You can always add a {{failed verification}} after a statement of fact that is not supported by the inline citation. If you did that for one or two such statements, your concerns about lack of time would be appreciated in the context that you have, at least, tried to mark some statements for attention. I hope this helps. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 12:59, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@User talk:FossilWave - For the article, an assessment may be requested here. Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 14:04, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Article for inclusion

Please, I believe that article is appropriate for inclusion in Wikipedia and has now met all the requirements. I used the top sources from the top 5 newspapers in Nigeria and I need an experienced volunteer to review and publish it on wikipedia. Draft:BJ Sam (Singer) Mmmmm90 (talk) 15:48, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mmmmm90 Hi and welcome here. Put the following {{subst:submit}} at the very top of the draft article to submit it to AfC so that reviewers can review it. Hope this helps. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:01, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mmmmm90, are you the person who was operating the blocked accounts Aniekan7777 and Rubiesar? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:14, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

OP has now been blocked (and draft deleted). 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:19, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Remove IP address

I accidentally made an edit without realising that I was not signed in to my account. Is there a way to have my IP address from that edit removed or switched so that my account name shows instead? ViveLaSuisse (talk) 16:26, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

ViveLaSuisse Hello and welcome. There is no way to change an edit history so that an edit by an IP is then assigned to your account. If you don't want your IP visible, you can request that it be oversighted. 331dot (talk) 16:28, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I'll try that. Thank you for your help! ViveLaSuisse (talk) 16:45, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Duplicate articles

Shingebiss and Shingebis seem to refer to the same myth. My understanding is that duplicate articles should be merged. However:

a) Shingebis has multiple problems

b) I know nothing about this myth (I was just looking it up and found the two articles)

I'm mainly a reader and very new to editing. What would be the best course of action here?

Thanks in advance! Mogtek (talk) 16:58, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi Mogtek! My suggestion would be to copy from Shingebis to Shingebiss any useful information (along with its references) not already there, and then make Shingebis a redirect to Shingebiss.

I am being lazy in assuming that 'Shingebiss' is the 'better' (more commonly used or more authentic), or at least equally good, spelling. If 'Shingebis' is actually preferable, the opposite though more laborious transfer of information could be done, or one could perform a Page move juggle Others may have better suggestions, though. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.198.140.169 (talk) 19:54, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Can someone take a look at this

this looks inappropriate Cohere Technologies ? 2607:FB91:34F:8A13:AC39:8391:6763:803 (talk) 17:15, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello. What is inappropriate about it? 331dot (talk) 17:22, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

The article seems to me to just about demonstrate notability, and is not too promotional. It's very thin, though, and could use a lot more meat on its bones, and perhaps more balance from adding some less-than-entirely-positive content.

Perhaps more non-controversial details like address, number of employees, etc. can be gleaned out of the inevitable puffery on its website, https://www.cohere-tech.com/, and added, though as a non-independent source this of course cannot contribute to its notability. More Reliable sources entirely independent of the subject (and its press releases) might also yield further facts from a more disinterested viewpoint. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.198.140.169 (talk) 22:46, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Candidate for draftifying, perhaps? It's interesting that the article was written by a new account who seems to know how to write articles. ~Anachronist (talk) 23:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Adding links to an article

Trying to add the fossil finds time part to the page 'Rutiotomodon', which I have found seems to require a citation, but one that cannot be easily accessed (visible as a number). How can I make it invisible? I am basing my change off of the page 'Trilophosauridae', but with edits to things such as time and citation. Mangox88 (talk) 18:02, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mangox88, could you explain a little further (with direct links if possible)? I don't fully follow what you're trying to do. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 18:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

User page

What should my user page look like and contain? Wobbler107 (talk) 18:47, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Wobbler107, and welcome to the Teahouse. A user page is completely optional: some longstanding editors choose not to have one. But most editors choose to create one, with some information about themselves as Wikipedia editors. A little information about their lives outside Wikipedia is acceptable, as long as it is not promotional (and younger editors in particular are advised not to reveal anything that identifies them in real life).

See WP:UPYES and WP:UPNO for what you may and may not put on your user page. ColinFine (talk) 18:58, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Ta! Wobbler107 (talk) 19:11, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Is "This Day In Metal" allowed as a source?

I'm fixing up a certain partial block request about a tour date that happened and one source that seems convincing to me but I don't know if it's convincing to others is this. I would like to know if this source is allowed. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 18:48, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Thomas and welcome to the Teahouse. The place to ask is WP:RSN - first search the archives for that page to see if it has previously been discussed, and if not, post your question there. I observe that it has a staff of named writers, which is a good sign, but it needs further investigation. ColinFine (talk) 19:01, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Thomasthedarkenguine, you could ask at WP:RSN for a more definitive answer. But on brief investigation, the staff writers have only their first names, which is basically pseudonymity, so that's not great. The site has no about page that I can find, and the parent site's about page, here, doesn't say much of anything about its editorial standards. So my inclination were I a writer would be to try to find something better, but to use it if there's nothing better, but only for basic noncontroversial details. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 19:05, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

It's nothing controversial, I'm just wanting to have a show added on The Spicy Meatball Tour. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 19:11, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Dr. William Longshaw

Dr. William Longshaw was born in Manchester, England April 26, 1836. I have copies of originals like the the Census of 1841 Manchester, England. Willliam was 5 years old when he travelled to the United States. I do have a copy of the census that I did upload to wikipedia. Toshiye6 (talk) 19:11, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello. What is it that you are referring to? 331dot (talk) 19:12, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I think he refers to his edits to William Longshaw Jr. Nick Moyes (talk) 19:16, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia:No original research may be a relevant read. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 19:17, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

It seems that both his birth date and place of birth are in dispute, according to the note in the infobox. Census records alone are not convincing since it is commonplace for two people to share the same name. Cullen328 (talk) 19:20, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I have proof of his birth place. It's a 1841 census in Manchester England. How do I upload this document? Toshiye6 (talk) 19:47, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

To reiterate what Cullen328 says above, how do you know it's the same William Longshore? 'William' is a very common name (not in the social sense, of course!); Longshaw is not unusual, and there must be multiple "William Longshaws"s from that era and milieu. The article's references do show that there are contradictory claims about his date and place of birth (unfortunately, there are also multiple "Manchester"s), but you have no proof (so far demonstrated) of a connection between the person in your census record and the subject of the article, it's just one possibility of many. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.15} 51.198.140.169 (talk) 20:08, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

How do you know that it is not a different person named William Longshaw? There is no need to upload a census report, as it is of no value on Wikipedia. Cullen328 (talk) 20:15, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

It is Father Is William senior. Mother is Margaret and William junior. This is the Manchester England census 1841. This is from Ancestory .com. Also the ,

Communication and Outreach Division

Naval History and Heritage Command

Have the same facts as me. I have his acceptance letter from the entrance to West Point. (202) 433-7880 142.114.202.157 (talk) 21:46, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

The correspondence of the parental names certainly lends weight to your suppositions, but it is not conclusive proof, and the date and place discrepancies with the published references are unexplained. (My conjecture is that maybe he was born before his parents' wedding, and his date and place of birth were obfusticated in the US records to conceal this, at the time, shameful fact, but my imagining this is of no use whatever). Nontheless, Wikipedia only accepts what published sources say, even when primary documents (such as census entries — see WP:Primary, secondary and tertiary sources) suggest that they are in error (see WP:Verifiability, not truth). Note also that Wikipedia disallows sources with user-contributed information as unreliable (see WP:Reliable sources): this includes Ancestry.com (and of course, Wikipedia itself). A line has to be drawn somewhere, and that's where it is.

A way out of this dilemma might be to more explicitly detail all the contradictory sources and their conflicting information (perhaps in the article's existing Note a.) so that the readers can do their own weighing up, but we can't just decide which one we prefer (even if we could agreed) and suppress the rest.

You and Template:U:Longshaw, the declared relative who is possessed of all these primary documents (and perhaps some secondary ones, with which we can work) need to discuss these matters further with the dissenting editors on the article's Talk page, which is the preferred venue rather than here, and reach a concensus on a solution. Splitting the discussion over two or more venues will not help. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.198.140.169 (talk) 23:24, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Here's what you need to do. Write a historical article (not an encyclopedia article) that concisely, lucidly and persuasively makes your point. Of course, this article must satisfy academic standards. Find a historical journal that is reputable -- is not a mere vanity or predatory enterprise, and is peer-reviewed (by academic historians, not monomaniacs or fringey people) -- and specializes in this area. Submit it to the journal. If it is conditionally accepted, rewrite it and resubmit it as required. Wait for its publication. After its publication, on Talk:William Longshaw Jr., point to the publication, and invite an unrelated editor to consider what it says, describing yourself as its author and thus disqualified from writing up the matter in the Wikipedia article. -- Hoary (talk) 22:09, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

What's wrong with my sandbox?

User:LOOKSQUARE/sandbox

every {{big}} template shows up as {{{1}}} LOOKSQUARE (👤️·🗨️) talk 21:47, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@LOOKSQUARE I’m not sure, but when I replaced one of the <span style="color: red;"> tags with a {{red}} transclusion, it showed correctly in the edit preview, so I’m guessing it will have something to do with that. Not sure exactly what though. A smart kitten (talk) 22:01, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Looks like it is because of the equals signs - the parser assumes that everything before the equals sign is a parameter name, so where you have {{Big|<span style="color: red;">SO</span>}}, it is being interpreted as "color: red;">SO</span> being passed as the parameter <span style, which is not the intended result. You can fix this by adding 1= before the <span>, which will make the parser treat all of the code as the first parameter, or by replacing the equals sign with {{=}}, which is a template that will later evaluate to the equals sign. Tollens (talk) 22:02, 23 August 2023 (UTC)