Talk:Aluminium: Difference between revisions
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Do we say aluminium or aluminum? [[User:Adipy|Adipy]] ([[User talk:Adipy|talk]]) 19:26, 13 September 2023 (UTC) |
Do we say aluminium or aluminum? [[User:Adipy|Adipy]] ([[User talk:Adipy|talk]]) 19:26, 13 September 2023 (UTC) |
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* People generally pronounce it the way it is spelt where they live (i.e. "aluminum" in the USA and sometimes in Canada, "aluminium" everywhere else). [[User_talk:Black Kite|Black Kite (talk)]] 19:44, 13 September 2023 (UTC) |
* People generally pronounce it the way it is spelt where they live (i.e. "aluminum" in the USA and sometimes in Canada, "aluminium" everywhere else). [[User_talk:Black Kite|Black Kite (talk)]] 19:44, 13 September 2023 (UTC) |
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*:I suppose linguists can debate which is "correct" - if any. But Americans are using the spelling/pronunciation that Humphry Davy intended. Given that Davy first discovered the element - his spelling seems at least as valid as the version the IUPAC made up.* Why would Wikipedia favor (British: favour) one over the other? |
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*: *The background is framed in the main article but I think Bill Bryson sums it up concisely in 'A Short History of Nearly Everything': "The confusion over the aluminum/aluminium spelling arose because of some uncharacteristic indecisiveness on [Humphry] Davy's part. When he first isolated the element in 1808, he called it alumium. For some reason he thought better of that and changed it to aluminum four years later. Americans dutifully adopted the new term, but many British users disliked aluminum, pointing out that it disrupted the -ium pattern established by sodium, calcium, and strontium, so they added a vowel and syllable." [[User:Skepticaljones82|Skepticaljones82]] ([[User talk:Skepticaljones82|talk]]) 15:10, 14 September 2023 (UTC) |
Revision as of 15:18, 14 September 2023
For discussion regarding spelling please use Talk:Aluminium/Spelling. |
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This article is written in American English with IUPAC spelling (color, defense, traveled; aluminium, sulfur and caesium) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide and chemistry naming conventions, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
There is a request, submitted by Catfurball, for an audio version of this article to be created. For further information, see WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia. The rationale behind the request is: "Important". |
Text and/or other creative content from this version of Aluminium was copied or moved into History of aluminium with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
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This page has archives. Sections older than 182 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 3 sections are present. |
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Please, start new discussions about spelling at /Spelling. |
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This page has archives. Sections older than 365 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 2 sections are present. |
British fanfic spelling
Why does the page list the British fanfic spelling as the primary spelling? The official recognized spelling is aluminum and should be recognized as such. 73.237.36.27 (talk) 17:34, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- See FAQ here --McSly (talk) 17:56, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- Umm, because the internationally recognised spelling is 'aluminium' and only Canada and the US spell it 'aluminum'. TrevorLenab (talk) 13:50, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
Requested move 14 April 2023
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Withdrawn. Seems like everyone disagrees with this move, and the title was already made on a compromise. Snow close. (non-admin closure) Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 18:24, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
Aluminium → Aluminum – "Aluminum" is the more common name, as shown with this ngram. Thoughts? Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 19:22, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
- Comment – While "aluminum" is definitely more common, the reason why it's located at "aluminium" is because of the IUPAC. Like, there's three elements with two region-centric names/spellings: "Alumin(i)um", "Sul[f/ph]ur", and "C(a)esium". The IUPAC established the standard that the British spelling should be used for "Aluminium" (and "Caesium") while the American spelling should be used for "Sulfur". Also, see MOS:SPELLING. Paintspot Infez (talk) 21:13, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
- Don't move This is a english-american spelling difference. Whichever whichever dialect has more prominence is always going to win the "more common" criterion. If that was sufficient argument for a move on its own the entire wiki would use American spelling sooner or later. I don't believe that's what policy prescribes. --Licks-rocks (talk) 21:19, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose per MOS:ENGVAR / MOS:RETAIN / Licks-rocks / Talk:Aluminium/Spelling. — BarrelProof (talk) 22:14, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose A compromise has been already hashed out at IUPAC and elsewhere long before Wikipedia existed. Attempting to defy it to restart the debate from scratch is not worth anyone's time. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 03:21, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
- Strong oppose per others. It's not an American element. See WP:ALUM for the clearly-specified WP standard based on IUPAC authority. DMacks (talk) 03:37, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose per WP:ALUM (=MOS): IUPAC-defined spelling in chemical usage. -DePiep (talk) 05:25, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose per WP:ALUM. 141Pr {contribs} 07:08, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose per WP:ALUM per all the previous history. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:08, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose - I think both me and future contributors to this RM will agree with the above points given here, especially I also agree with the WP:ALUM text given. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 12:19, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 28 April 2023
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The "US/CA" is incorrect. When I was in school, our Periodic table of elements which I have in my room right now (Yes, I still hoard my highschool binder after grad 2018) has Aluminium spelt in the non-American (imperial/non-metric) spelling. People of the United States say/spell/measure things oddly (basically as a colonial/patriotic middle finger to a dead king), as a born & raised metric-using 182cm tall, 53kg Canadian I must submit our Country's refusal of Canada being falsely accused of using such an atrocious spelling such as "Aluminum" even though we hang out with enough Americans for most of us Canadian to utilise the American pronunciation without correcting eachother. You can assume the person who initially put CA in there was an American whiteknighting our grammar, eh? XGN CISCO (talk) 21:15, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
- I agree that it isn't universally spelled aluminum in Canada, but I would suggest that it is in common usage. Canada often is split between British and American English, and I don't believe this is any different. The article doesn't imply (at least to me personally) that the ONLY spelling in Canada is aluminum, just that it is in common usage there. If there's somewhere that does suggest it's universal, I'd be happy to change that, though. Tollens (talk) 22:59, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 1 May 2023
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Background/Evidence Hi! In the Etymology section, under Spelling, source #123 is cited for the line "In 1925, the American Chemical Society adopted this spelling"[In reference to Aluminum vs Aluminium]. Source #123, unfortunately, is not primary, nor does it cite a primary source. Source #129 makes a similar claim about the ACS 1925 thing, but is also A) Secondary, and B) Sourceless.
After doing my own digging, I have found the *actual* earliest use of 'Aluminum' by the ACS: in it's 7th issue, published in June 1879. After this, the ACS frequently accepts both -ium and -um, with, as far as I could find, no official publication on which it deems the 'official' spelling. In fact, the 1925 date seems like it might be made up anyway. The final use of Aluminium that I could find in the ACS journal database was in July of 1917.
So, even if some sort of decree was made in 1925 making -um the official alumin-suffix of the ACS, it was symbolic at the point anyway.
Requested Edit: Change this portion:
> By 1890, both spellings had been common in the United States, the -ium spelling being slightly more common; by 1895, the situation had reversed; by 1900, aluminum had become twice as common as aluminium; in the next decade, the -um spelling dominated American usage. In 1925, the American Chemical Society adopted this spelling.[123]
To
> By 1890, both spellings had been common in the United States, the -ium spelling being slightly more common; by 1895, the situation had reversed; by 1900, aluminum had become twice as common as aluminium. The final use of aluminium by the American Chemical Society was in 1917 [1] Fordfraipont (talk) 18:58, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
- Not done for now: Contrary to your expectation, we prefer secondary sources and avoid original interpretation of primary sources on Wikipedia, even quite trivial interpretation! If you can find a secondary or tertiary source that supports the 1917 date, please link it and reopen this request. small jars
tc
16:33, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
References
- ^ "THE ACTION OF ANHYDROUS ALUMINIUM CHLORIDE UPON UNSATURATED ORGANIC COMPOUNDS. II". Journal of the American Chemical Society. 39 (7). 1 July 1917. Retrieved 1 May 2023.
Spellings
Do we say aluminium or aluminum? Adipy (talk) 19:26, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
- People generally pronounce it the way it is spelt where they live (i.e. "aluminum" in the USA and sometimes in Canada, "aluminium" everywhere else). Black Kite (talk) 19:44, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
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