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:Oh fine. But, [[User:Peacemaker67|Peacemaker]] me old mate - you're wrong about this one sorry to say: [http://www.spandaumilitariashop.com/ss-skanderbeg-pennant/]. Sure, attested as vehicle symbols your "negatives" may be, but they were not the divisional insignia (patches). <font face="Eras Bold ITC">-- [[User:Director|<span style="color:#353535">Director</span>]] <span style="color:#464646">([[User talk:Director|<span style="color:#464646">talk</span>]])</span></font> 08:41, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
:Oh fine. But, [[User:Peacemaker67|Peacemaker]] me old mate - you're wrong about this one sorry to say: [http://www.spandaumilitariashop.com/ss-skanderbeg-pennant/]. Sure, attested as vehicle symbols your "negatives" may be, but they were not the divisional insignia (patches). <font face="Eras Bold ITC">-- [[User:Director|<span style="color:#353535">Director</span>]] <span style="color:#464646">([[User talk:Director|<span style="color:#464646">talk</span>]])</span></font> 08:41, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
:One more thing: I apologize for the tone of the comment on my initial revert to the black patch. I had no idea it was you, I thought it had to have been some SS-worshipping Albanian nationalist who'd changed the symbol such that it'd be a black double-headed eagle (the Albanian eagle) - as opposed to a white double-headed eagle (which happens to be the Serbian eagle lol). <font face="Eras Bold ITC">-- [[User:Director|<span style="color:#353535">Director</span>]] <span style="color:#464646">([[User talk:Director|<span style="color:#464646">talk</span>]])</span></font> 09:15, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
:One more thing: I apologize for the tone of the comment on my initial revert to the black patch. I had no idea it was you, I thought it had to have been some SS-worshipping Albanian nationalist who'd changed the symbol such that it'd be a black double-headed eagle (the Albanian eagle) - as opposed to a white double-headed eagle (which happens to be the Serbian eagle lol). <font face="Eras Bold ITC">-- [[User:Director|<span style="color:#353535">Director</span>]] <span style="color:#464646">([[User talk:Director|<span style="color:#464646">talk</span>]])</span></font> 09:15, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
::They are two different things, old fruit. The uniform patches were worn by troops of that "nation" within an SS division, ie in the 5th SS "Wiking" division, Finnish troops wore the Finnish patch (a lion rampant), the Dutch wore the Dutch patch (a Dutch tricolour shield). But the unit symbol was the one other units recognised them by, and it was stencilled on their vehicles and guns etc and used as a sign on the road to where the division was deployed, ie the Wiking division symbol, the ''Sonnenrad''. Members of the Wiking division did not wear the ''Sonnenrad'' on a sleeve shield or anywhere on their uniform actually. Unit symbols have to be simple and easily cut out and stencilled. It is the same today. The paint goes inside the cut out eagle, not around it, although sometimes they would paint a darker square or circle on which the lighter unit symbol was stencilled. While there were "rules" the Waffen-SS used whatever paint was available, usually something that would stand out to an extent on camouflage or green/grey vehicle paint, white, cream, pale yellow, whatever. See File:SS Viking motorbike.jpg and File:Bundesarchiv Bild 101III-Altstadt-055-37, Russland, Panzer III, Waffen-SS-Division "Wiking".jpg for examples from the Wiking division. In any case, you can say it implies what you like, but as far as WP is concerned that is OR, and you do not have a reliable source for it. However, Keegan depicts the unit symbol exactly as it is in 21st Waffen Division of the SS vehicle symbol.svg. [[User:Peacemaker67|Peacemaker67]] ([[User_talk:Peacemaker67|click to talk to me]]) 09:56, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

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Patches vs vehicle signs

G'day Direktor. Please just work through the 21st one with me rather than going around reverting my work, which is based on reliable sources. I would appreciate it if you would revert the other one. Thanks, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:35, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oh fine. But, Peacemaker me old mate - you're wrong about this one sorry to say: [2]. Sure, attested as vehicle symbols your "negatives" may be, but they were not the divisional insignia (patches). -- Director (talk) 08:41, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
One more thing: I apologize for the tone of the comment on my initial revert to the black patch. I had no idea it was you, I thought it had to have been some SS-worshipping Albanian nationalist who'd changed the symbol such that it'd be a black double-headed eagle (the Albanian eagle) - as opposed to a white double-headed eagle (which happens to be the Serbian eagle lol). -- Director (talk) 09:15, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
They are two different things, old fruit. The uniform patches were worn by troops of that "nation" within an SS division, ie in the 5th SS "Wiking" division, Finnish troops wore the Finnish patch (a lion rampant), the Dutch wore the Dutch patch (a Dutch tricolour shield). But the unit symbol was the one other units recognised them by, and it was stencilled on their vehicles and guns etc and used as a sign on the road to where the division was deployed, ie the Wiking division symbol, the Sonnenrad. Members of the Wiking division did not wear the Sonnenrad on a sleeve shield or anywhere on their uniform actually. Unit symbols have to be simple and easily cut out and stencilled. It is the same today. The paint goes inside the cut out eagle, not around it, although sometimes they would paint a darker square or circle on which the lighter unit symbol was stencilled. While there were "rules" the Waffen-SS used whatever paint was available, usually something that would stand out to an extent on camouflage or green/grey vehicle paint, white, cream, pale yellow, whatever. See File:SS Viking motorbike.jpg and File:Bundesarchiv Bild 101III-Altstadt-055-37, Russland, Panzer III, Waffen-SS-Division "Wiking".jpg for examples from the Wiking division. In any case, you can say it implies what you like, but as far as WP is concerned that is OR, and you do not have a reliable source for it. However, Keegan depicts the unit symbol exactly as it is in 21st Waffen Division of the SS vehicle symbol.svg. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:56, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]