Talk:Gordon Ramsay

Gordon is Scottish

This page lists Gordon as British, but he is Scottish born and identifies as Scottish in all his work. 2600:4040:7407:4400:E5F6:DC3B:EEF6:BD04 (talk) 03:50, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Are you the same person who made the prior two reports which inaccurately state that Ramsay is not British? Obviously he is British. Scottish people are also British people. Do you have any evidence of his self-identification as Scottish exclusive of being British? —DIYeditor (talk) 06:30, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

However, it should be noted that Scottish is not English and that he is listed under English, not Scottish, cuisine. Of course, Gordon is British, but I think there may be a misidentification of him as being under English cuisine (though he certainly started his career chiefly in England, not Scotland) 110.235.105.128 (talk) 14:02, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

There needs to be some consistency around this. Sure he's British, but he's also European too. Should he be listed as a "European British celebrity chef, restaurateur, television presenter, and writer." Probably not; next we'd take everybody up to "Earthling". Moreover, look at Rowan Atkinson's article. Look at Paul McCartney's. Look at Andrew Wiles's. They're all listed as English, not British. It's more specific; it's better information. Gordon Ramsey should thus also be listed as Scottish and not British.Gr33nshorts (talk) 19:28, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the policy is here, but at least in a situation where he's asked by Companies House for his nationality (where Scottish is an allowed option) he has chosen British as opposed to Scottish. That would for me be strong enough grounds to prefer using British unless there is somewhere that it is evidenced that he'd rather be known as Scottish. This sort of identity thing is a bit more complicated than it just being information, it's a form of self-identification that some people take very seriously. FF0000 (talk) 23:34, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Change proposed to related WP article, "List of restaurants owned or operated by Gordon Ramsay"

Since 2013 there has been a separate Wikipedia article, "List of restaurants owned or operated by Gordon Ramsay": it has been used as an extension of the Gordon Ramsay article here, with an all-inclusive list of all restaurants he owns or operates now, and has had in the past, and others announced as upcoming. It includes Restaurant Name, Location (City/Region/Nation), Date Opened, Date Closed (or of when Ramsay stopped being involved), its Michelin star history, any Notes, and "Ref" (links to citations).

Now a Wikipedia editor (or perhaps admin?) has removed portions of the text at top of that article, which had been explaining info about the background of Gordon Ramsay's history (and future plans) for his restaurants. That same person has added a section to the Talk page, saying "I'm proposing we limit this list to notable restaurants." They explain that "WP isn't a directory, and that's what this list seems to have become."

Talk:List of restaurants owned or operated by Gordon Ramsay#Notable restaurants

I've given my thoughts on why I disagree with the proposal, including that it would affect this main Gordon Ramsay article, as they are related. The person doesn't agree with me. They go on to say that, "If a restaurant is notable, make an article. If a restaurant isn't notable, why list it here? My proposal is that we include notable restaurants -- that is, the restaurants that have (or clearly should have) articles."

If you have any thoughts on this matter, I encourage you to head over there and give your feedback. DiscoBookworm (talk) 01:49, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Right now this list is a WP:DIRECTORY. It literally includes every restaurant Ramsay has ever touched, notable or not. It include an entry for each restaurant in one of his restaurant chains, even if a particular entry isn't notable. And half of these chain entries that have an article don't look notable, the coverage seems to be mostly routine business coverage on a number of them. I'm concerned about COI. This editor has stated they are just a fan, but even a fan can have a COI.Valereee (talk) 02:18, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Lede image

I've been lurking on this page for a few years now, and I've noticed that there's this occasional back in forth on the lead image, every once in a while, the lede will be switched either from Commons:File:Gordon Ramsay.jpg to Commons:File:Gordon Ramsay colour Allan Warren.jpg or vice versa. For example, on June 9, @The One I Left changed the lead image from the latter to the former. So I'm having this discussion to sort of establish a clear consensus on the lede, using 5 images from commons that would be best suited to be in the infobox. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 22:51, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

• 
  2006 portrait, current in Wikipedia lead and Wikidata
• 
  2008 crop
• 
  2012 crop
• 
  2010 crop, lead image commonly used in place of the first
• 
  2014 crop

- Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 22:51, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Survey

1st is best Hello! I think the 1st image is clearly the best one. The rest each have their own problems.The One I Left (talk) 22:53, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm not overly fond of any of them, to be honest. The first has him looking away from the camera and with a very odd expression, so I would be a definite "no" on that one. The second, he's also looking off camera, and there's a lot of visual clutter (parts of other heads, a green pillar looking like it's sticking out of his head, etc.) in that, but it's at least marginally better than the first. The third again has part of another head in it, and is very grainy and low-resolution, so that one's probably a "no"—I like the composition with his face straight on, but it's just too poor of quality. The fourth is very poorly lit, especially for his clothing; it looks like his head is just floating in space since his black clothing isn't really picked up in the shot and the background is extremely dark as well. Definite no. And the fifth, again, looking off camera and very low-resolution. So, I would actually go with option six: File:GordanRamsey2013Muppets.png. It's decent resolution, he's looking directly into the camera so his whole face is clearly visible, and his trademark chef jacket is shown clearly in the photo. Even that one's not perfect, but I think it's better than any of the others above. And since the whole video ([1]) is licensed CC-BY, it's also quite possible that we could extract an even better still from it to use as the primary infobox photo. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 23:43, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

In addition to all of your observations @Seraphimblade, all of these images are, or nearing on a decade old. Surely there must be a newer free picture of Gordon Ramsay out there somewhere? ♠JCW555 (talk)♠ 00:33, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

I didn't find any when I searched Commons, but if you can find some, that would certainly be good as well, since all of these are indeed pretty old. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 01:15, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

I did find this one from 2018 but it's super low quality and is a screenshot from a YouTube video. ♠JCW555 (talk)♠ 03:08, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

I went through that video, but the only time he's shown in it is on a stage and filmed from pretty far back, so cropping it down close enough to just show him would inevitably result in the quality being very poor. Good find, but unfortunately I don't think we could get anything usable from it. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 03:32, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

{{{annotations}}}

• Comment (Summoned by bot) – It's good to get feedback, but I don't know that you need the formal structure of a 30-day Rfc; have you considered just a normal discussion? In any case, I don't know that the first one is "clearly" the best; for one thing, it looks like he just shot fireworks up out of his left ear. Two and three suffer from having other people in the image. Four and five don't have that problem. Also, don't forget that the article could have a zoomed-in version, if you wish; here's #5, zoomed in a bit and cropped. (edit conflict) Mathglot (talk) 23:53, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
• So I'm in two minds about the image. My non-serious mind likes the first image because of the memes it's spawned over the years, but I know that's irrelevant :P. My serious mind is leaning toward image four. Just speaking for me personally, I've never liked images where the subject is looking near sideways as the main image of articles. Image three looks like it would crop terribly as well. Seraphim's issues with image four are valid, but from what we have to work with, I feel like it's the best image here. ♠JCW555 (talk)♠ 04:07, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
• 1st is best, although I'm sure there's a better option out there.--Ortizesp (talk) 04:46, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• 1st is better than the others, and will be my !vote, but none of them are great and all have some problems. I agree that the problem with the 1st is that he has an odd facial expression and head angle, and the fire behind him blends oddly with his hair, but other than that it has a nice dark background and he's dressed in his chef outfit which helps identify who he is and what he is notable for. The 2nd image has severe contrast problems-- the background blends with the foreground too much and makes it hard to really see details, it's full of visual clutter that gets in the way. The 3rd image is blurry, and contains a cropped bit of who I presume is his wife? Or a fan he's posing with? Don't know, but cropping the middle of her face is bad, and enough for me to reject it entirely. The 4th image is a good picture of his face without any clutter, but he has a wild hairstyle that is not representative of how he is depicted in most works where he appears-- it's more of a candid shot than a representative one, unfortunately, which is why I definitely would choose the 1st over this one. The 5th image is too zoomed out, and again has the "not representative" problem. The zoomed in version of the 5th image is better in one way-- it frames his face-- but far far worse in that it's blurry. So after all that, I come back to the 1st image, facial expression, head angle, and fire clutter problems notwithstanding. I wish we had a better free image we could use, but of the images offered, this one is best for the article, primarily because it is representative of how he appears in the area that he is notable. And that's important when it comes to a lead image. Fieari (talk) 07:26, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• 1 or 5 - Per the above; 1 definitely appears to be technically best. 5 isn't "bad" and is obviously more recent. NickCT (talk) 18:33, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• None of the above. Instead, I propose the following:

B E E F

In all seriousness, I prefer this nice black and white photograph:

voorts (talk/contributions) 23:07, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

My vote is on B E E F. SWinxy (talk) 01:34, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

• 1 All the way. ~ HAL333 17:01, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
• 1 Ramsay is a professional chef. This picture shows that best. The Banner talk 18:55, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
• 1 The others are either too blurry or don't show much of his face. Some1 (talk) 02:06, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
• 1 per The Banner. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 14:03, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 August 2023

He ran the kitchen and 60-seat dining room at the Wickham Arms, until his sexual relationship with the owner's wife made the situation difficult. Ramsay then moved to London, where he worked...

I personally have nothing against Gordon Ramsay, but instead of hiding behind half-euphemisms (which go against MOS:EUPHEMISM) I think it would best to simplify that sentence to what it is: "...at Wickham Arms, until he left for London following an affair with the owner's wife. There, he worked..." 2603:8001:4542:28FB:D1A0:7BBB:E6CF:5C27 (talk) 06:24, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

 Partly done: I've rewritten as " until he quit after having sex with the owner's wife." I think the term "affair" would technically be correct, but I hesitate to use that phrasing in Wikipedia's voice when the source is primary and does not make the assertion itself. So, I opted to go more literal. —Sirdog (talk) 07:47, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Rant

Does Ramsay know the difference between a potato and a lemon?