Talk:Arab migrations to the Maghreb: Difference between revisions

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Arab migrations to the Maghreb has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: August 14, 2023. (Reviewed version).

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Arab migrations to the Maghreb/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Steelkamp (talk · contribs) 14:10, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll review this. Steelkamp (talk) 14:10, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Good article criteria

Well written

Optional: There are a lot of duplicate links which should mostly be removed, particularly for duplicate links within the same paragraph. Duplicate links may be left as is if they are in different sections though. Duplicate links can be easily idenfitied using duplinks-alt.
"During the earliest Muslim conquests..." Can you give a timeframe for this in years?
- Done Skitash (talk) 12:46, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"7th-8th century." Should this be changed to "7th or 8th century"?
- Done Skitash (talk) 12:46, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"The Umayyad Caliphate was aware of the importance of the spread and settlement of Arabs in the Maghreb." Importance to who?
- Done Skitash (talk) 13:02, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"anti-Kharijite wars". Is there a Wikipedia page this can link to?
- There is no page about this unfortunately but I specified who the war was being fought against. Skitash (talk) 12:46, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"Ifriqiya (modern-day Tunisia)". This note could be shifted up to the first mention of Ifriqiya.
- Done Skitash (talk) 12:46, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"To weaken resistance by Arab tribes in Ifriqiya, the Almohad ruler Abd al-Mu'min transferred them to Morocco in large numbers and settled them in the Atlantic plains." This sentence could mention the century/decade if that is known. I know it already says the century in the section title but I think it should be written in the paragraph as well.
- Done Skitash (talk) 21:29, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"Under the Marinids, the Arabs grew in importance in Morocco." Same here. I think the time period should be mentioned.
- Done Skitash (talk) 21:29, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"The appearance of the Arabs added to the complexity of the ethnic population of Morocco". I think this can be reworded. It's not exactly clear what it means.
- Done Skitash (talk) 21:29, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"The Almohad ruler Abd al-Mu'min". This can be simplified to "Abd al-Mu'min" seeing as he is already introduced earlier in the paragraph.
- Done Skitash (talk) 21:29, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"and also dominated the valleys of the Moulouya, Draa, Sous, as well as the Tafilalt oasis region." What is this referring to? Should this sentence be split into two?
- Done Skitash (talk) 21:29, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  - It doesn't look like that sentence has been changed. Steelkamp (talk) 13:14, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    - Apologies, I confused it with another sentence. It is fixed now. Skitash (talk) 18:16, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Is Harry Norris a historian? Should this be prefaced by "Historian Harry Norris"?
- Done Skitash (talk) 21:29, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"A major effect of the Arab migrations to the Maghreb was the Arabization of its population. In addition to changing the population's demographics, the migration resulted in the Arabization of the native Berber population." Could these sentences be simplified? Aren't these sentences saying the same thing?
- Done Skitash (talk) 18:16, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"The Arabization took place around Arab centres". What does this mean? Is this referring to Arab centres in the Maghreb?
- Done Skitash (talk) 18:16, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"The migration of Banu Hilal and Banu Sulaym in the 11th century had a much greater influence on the process of Arabization of the population." I suggest changing this to "The migration of Banu Hilal and Banu Sulaym in the 11th century had a much greater influence on the process of Arabization than the migration beforehand."
- Done Skitash (talk) 18:16, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Verifiable with no original research

www.globalsecurity.org seems to be an unreliable source as per WP:GLOBALSECURITY and should be replaced.
- Done Skitash (talk) 12:57, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
For reference 27, is it possible to use a modern day source instead?
- Done Skitash (talk) 12:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There is a citation needed tag which needs to be fixed before this review is passed.
- Done Skitash (talk) 12:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"According to al-Ya'qubi, in the mountains near Cyrenaica were the Arab tribes of Azd, Lakhm, Judham, al-Sadaf, and other Yemenite tribes on the eastern mountain, and Ghassan, Judham, Azd, Tujayb and others on the eastern mountain." This sentence should be reworded. It refers to the eastern mountain twice?
- Done It was meant to say western mountain. Skitash (talk) 11:36, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"of the conquerors and their descendants with very few outsiders. Land grants were given to these soldiers, creating a landed Arab aristocracy with extensive landholdings, cultivated in many cases by slaves from". This part should be reworded. It is closely paraphrased from this source.
- Done Skitash (talk) 18:16, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Broad in its coverage

Neutral

Stable

Illustrated, if possible

Optional: I suggest adding alt text to the images to aid with accessibility.
- Done Skitash (talk) 12:46, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

General

Looks good enough to me now. Will pass this review. Steelkamp (talk) 09:17, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Some important details to add

Luis del Mármol Carvajal's figures are greatly exaggerated when we know that they considered the Banu Ifran (Berber tribe) to also number a million individuals. Let us add to this that, for example, according to the same author, the Berber language was still predominantly spoken in Morocco, the population of the Maghreb after these invasions was largely Berber according to this author but also according to Leo Africanus and Ibn Khaldoun.

This information has been omitted, however, you insist on the number of Hilalians who came to settle in the Maghreb.

But for that you would have to have read the books talking about these events to know: Histoire des berbères et des dynasties musulmanes de l'Afrique septentrionale, Les prolégomènes d'Ibn Khaldoun or L'Afrique de Marmol.

The Adam Truth (talk) 15:27, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is called Wikipedia:Original research, and therefore does not belong in Wikipedia. Skitash (talk) 16:13, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nope since I am relying on the point of view of historians but also on the books that you yourself use for your article (and which you obviously do not have in full).Your own source proves that the numbers are exaggerated. But once again, you didn't read it in its entirety. We call it "cherry picking". The Adam Truth (talk) 16:17, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest you take another look at the article. Marmol is not the only historian who estimates such figure. Skitash (talk) 16:19, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 24: / Line 24: @@
 :This is called [[Wikipedia:Original research]], and therefore does not belong in Wikipedia. [[User:Skitash|Skitash]] ([[User talk:Skitash|talk]]) 16:13, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 ::Nope since I am relying on the point of view of historians but also on the books that you yourself use for your article (and which you obviously do not have in full).Your own source proves that the numbers are exaggerated. But once again, you didn't read it in its entirety. We call it "cherry picking". [[User:The Adam Truth|The Adam Truth]] ([[User talk:The Adam Truth|talk]]) 16:17, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
+:::I suggest you take another look at the article. Marmol is not the only historian who estimates such figure. [[User:Skitash|Skitash]] ([[User talk:Skitash|talk]]) 16:19, 10 November 2023 (UTC)