Talk:Quarter-life crisis

Vote for deletion

Article listed on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion Apr 23 to Apr 29 2004, consensus was to keep. Discussion:

Somebody's personal crisis. RickK 05:02, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)

• Neutral. The term is real: [www.quarterlifecrisis.com]. But the tone of the article makes me worry about copyvio. It's not from the book itself - I ran key phrases on Amazon search inside the book, but something about the article gives me a bad feeling. Snowspinner 05:08, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)
• Gets 16,300 hits on google [1], with one being a NYT article [2]. Seems significant enough, keep. Unless Snowspinner's copyvio suspicions are correct, of course. -- Cyrius|&#9998 05:13, Apr 23, 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. If it's a copyvio, it's a copyvio, but a worry that it might be is no reason to can an article. --Stormie 05:43, Apr 23, 2004 (UTC)
  • Hence my vote of neutrality. I think it needs a heavy rewrite even if it's not copyvio, what with its repeated use of the second person, though. Snowspinner 06:23, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)
• Keep it - sounds fairly significant. Pteron 06:21, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)
• Delete, or at the very least send to cleanup. This reads more like a university medical clinic brochure than an encyclopedia article. Psychonaut 23:30, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)
• Keep, but clean up - it's somewhat of a neologism, but a fairly well-known term, deserving of encyclopedic treatment. - IMSoP 00:16, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. Real subject, perfectly encyclopedic as a topic. Jgm 05:30, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. I re-wrote it, doing my best to clean it up (getting rid of 2nd person, explaining causes in detail). Mike Church 20:04, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. After the rewrite it now sounds reasonable. Sanders muc 20:24, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. "Nobody loves you when you're 23..." jengod 00:24, Apr 26, 2004 (UTC)
• Why should you delete an article on quarter-life crises? Someone even wrote a book on the phenomenon, I mean. Something that's been talked about in Generation X fora lately and is of interest to Xers. Wiwaxia 04:20, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. this article seems legitimate--ZeLonewolf 22:00, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)

End discussion

Financial and social issues section

The "Financial and social issues" section contains some claims of which I am dubious, particularly the claim that real wages have been falling since the 1970s. Would the author like to add his sources? If not, I will try to corroborate the facts myself.

It's based in macroeconomics and is vs. inflation. Technically it's correct, and as it's adjusted for YOY it would be difficult to find stats for the entire range (it's usually available each year). I've read sources in macro books, but they're not presented in a way that really works for a citation (as they also don't point out their sources, just that the wage data is public knowledge due to being from the government). Similarly, this is based in the United States -- other countries have different financial situations. A quarter life crisis in France would be because of different economic reasons.

Definition

"The quarter-life crisis is ... the period of life immediately following the major changes of adolescence, usually ranging from the ages of 21 - 29." Say what? You mean it's not an emotional crisis that some people go through, but simply a period of life that everyone goes through, regardless of actual emotional state? Methinks a new definition is called for. Nurg 11:21, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Origin of term

Citation needed for Elliot Jaques coining the term in 1965. The earliest citation found by Word Spy is from 1998 and it is aware that Jaques coined "midlife crisis" in 1965 so it seems unlikely it would be unaware if he also coined "quarterlife crisis" around the same time. Nurg 11:59, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, I've heard this term used many, many times in songs as well as just common speech well before 2001. enderu 16:39, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

The article itself is contradicting saying it was first coined in 2001, but then later noted that it was in a 1992 episode of Kids in the Hall. I think the coining of the term definitely needs to be reviewed.

It might be worth noting that Douglas Coupland used the term "mid-twenties breakdown" in Generation X (1991) to mean pretty much the same thing. This is a concept that has been floating around since at least the early 90s.Typo180 (talk) 20:04, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

80 hrs -> 40 hrs per week

I find the statement that a financial professional spends upwards of 80 hours per week as ludicrous. Changed to "at least 40 hours per week" instead which is more reasonable and likely.

Original statement: "Financial professionals are often expected to spend upwards of 80 hours per week in the office, and people in the legal, medical, educational, and managerial professions may average more than 60."

218.111.51.105 22:06, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree, change this statement. Now it reads: "Financial professionals are often expected to spend at least 80 hours per week in the office, and people in the legal, medical, educational, and managerial professions may average more than 60. " But, which financial professionals are we talking about? Which country? Which time frame? Financial professionals is a very big and generalized group. It is entirely incorrect to state that they work at least 80 hours per week, without adding some specifics. Vince 03:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Educational field

People in the educational field working more than 60 hours a week? Let's see some data on that one.

The word College

This might seem picky to someone in the US etc, but I'm making a minor alteration to the phraze:

"nostalgia for college life"

should be changed to

"nostalgia for university or college life"

In the college article it states:

"In relation to universities, the term college normally refers to a part of the university which does not have degree-awarding powers in itself. Degrees are always awarded by universities, colleges are institutions or organisations which prepare students for the degree."

As a Brit myself, and someone who also identifies with the subject of this article I belive this helps the neutrality.

Edit: forgot to sign, sorry --84.92.62.165 20:29, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. The use of 'college' to mean both 'university' and 'college' is similarly confounding to readers of Canadian English, which tends to make this same distinction. This clarifies things, without problematising the American English interpretation (in which 'college' is general) --Yst 04:13, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Implied discrimination against the poor?

The statement "Some measure of financial security – which usually requires occupational security – is necessary for psychological development." really needs to be backed up with something. Because if you think about it, it's saying that poor people never fully develop psychologically... not only is this offensive, I don't think it holds water. Observer31 02:27, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Mental illness affects rich and poor across the board, but the rich can afford treatment while the poor can't. That's not offensive, just a statement of the sad state of social & economic conditions in the world. Wl219 07:41, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

The implication that poor people are psychologically undeveloped is still dubious and offensive. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 18:59, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Research

This article has awful original research issues. It reads like an "I can't get a job" rant for the most part. --Wafulz 04:51, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

This article is narrowly focused and uninformative. I believe in the modern psychological community quarter life crisis is a bit wider than just a hard time finding a good paying job fresh out of college or dealing with office politics. It would be nice of someone aware of any research or thought in this field would expand it.

Agreed. I'm working to fix the conversational tone. This isn't a deadjournal blog, but an encyclopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.248.12.142 (talk) 21:22, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

This article was so bad, I came on to the discussion page just to see what people were saying about it. I am surprised there aren't more comments. This definitely sounds as though someone cannot get a job, which is quite unfortunate for those of us in this particular situation who aren't egocentric enough to assume our personal struggles are everybody else's as well. For someone who went to college, this article is pretty poorly written and supported. Terrible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.151.93.32 (talk) 08:48, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Name

Maybe it's a British thing, but I've only ever heard this referred to as a "mid-youth crisis"... Kinitawowi 10:34, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Applies to which cultures?

This is a fascinating article, but it needs to say to whom it applies. Is this just a psychological phenomenon in the USA? Europe? the "western" world? It certainly doesn't apply to people everywhere as described, as social and economic factors vary between cultures and apply pressures at different times in a person's life. I'm not even convinced it applies to all socio-economic groups here in the US where people aren't expected to go to college, have a "career", or make the types of choices that come with a western, middle or upper-class life. Cited clarification is needed on this topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.238.175 (talk) 03:09, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to revive this issue, as it still applies to the current version. Miyo0i (talk) 20:06, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

"Spiraling house prices"

It seems to be a fair statement to say that underemployment is a problem for graduates, however, how do spiraling house prices create a problem? Appreciation may be stagnant, but lower prices should be a bonus for new home owners. The article reads: "spiraling house prices are exacerbating it. Substandard living conditions, combined with menial or repetitive work at their jobs create a great amount of frustration, anxiety and anger. Nobody wants to admit to feeling like a 'loser'; this secrecy may intensify the problem". This is obviously POV, with no citations or anything to back it up. This paragraph/section needs to be revised or removed. Kellenwright (talk) 08:40, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

"Uncontrollable urge"?

"Uncontrollabe urge to get a tattoo"? Really? Wouldn't that just be an impulse disorder? And why a tattoo? It could be any number of impulses! Voting for deletion of that particular criteria. Agree? Shinku Hisaki (talk) 07:40, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

"Quite true"

I would rather agree with this article. Technical details can surely be improved but statements like nostalgic for college (or universities as someone pointed out above) are probably true for most of the students. A sudden sense of responsibility and social pressure specially in Asian countries is tremendous for this age group. Dreamzz21 (talk) 16:43, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Intro line ridiculous

Removed from intro:

The first book to identify this phenomenon was Quarterlife Crisis, the Unique Challenges of Life in your Twenties (Tarcher, 2001), coauthored by Abby Wilner and Alexandra Robbins, while the first to offer practical solutions - based on peer research - was Damian Barr's Get It Together: A Guide to Surviving Your Quarterlife Crisis (Hodder, 2004&2005). An early version of the phenomenon was posited by Erik H. Erikson although the current manifestation, as Wilner, Robbins and Barr argue, is different.

This is not verified by any of the sources listed. We need third-party reliable sources to indicate this is true, otherwise this pop psychology primacy claims are only based on the say-so of these authors who hawk their wares in the self-help aisles. In other words, we need better sources. See WP:RS.

209.2.208.65 (talk) 15:56, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Removing unreferenced speculation to here

This was removed from the first section of the article as it is unreferenced for almost three years:

Characteristics of quarter-life crisis may include:

• confronting one's own mortality
• insecurity concerning ability to love oneself, let alone another person
• insecurity regarding present accomplishments
• re-evaluation of close interpersonal relationships
• lack of friendships or romantic relationships, sexual frustration, and involuntary celibacy
• disappointment with one's job
• nostalgia for university, college, high school, middle school or elementary school life
• tendency to hold stronger opinions
• boredom with social interactions
• loss of closeness to high school and college friends
• financially-rooted stress (overwhelming college loans, unexpectedly high cost of living)
• loneliness, depression and suicidal tendencies
• desire to have children
• a sense that others are doing better than oneself
• frustration with social skills

These unsettling emotions and insecurities are not uncommon at this age or later in adult life.

Please find a source for these claims or keep them out of the article.

209.2.208.65 (talk) 15:59, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

The following paragraphs were completely unreferenced for a number of years, so I removed them to talk:

After entering adult life and coming to terms with its responsibilities, some individuals find themselves experiencing career stagnation or extreme insecurity. The individual often realizes the real world is tougher, more competitive and less forgiving than she/he imagined.

A related problem is simply that many college graduates do not achieve a desirable standard of living after graduation. They often end up living in low-income apartments with roommates instead of having an income high enough to support themselves. Substandard living conditions, combined with menial or repetitive work at their jobs create a great amount of frustration, anxiety and anger. Nobody wants to admit to feeling like a 'loser'; this secrecy may intensify the problem.

As the emotional highs and lows of adolescence and college life subside, many affected by quarter-life crisis experience a "graying" of emotion.

Furthermore, a factor contributing to quarter-life crisis may be the difficulty in adapting to a workplace environment. In college, professors' expectations are clearly given and students receive frequent feedback on their performance in their courses. One progresses from year to year in the education system. In contrast, within a workplace environment, one may be, for some time, completely unaware of a boss's displeasure with one's performance, or of one's colleagues' dislike of one's personality. One does not automatically make progress. Office politics require interpersonal skills that are largely unnecessary for success in an educational setting.

More unreferenced material

These paragraphs had absolutely no reliable sources backing them up and are highly debatable. I removed them here:

A primary cause of the stress associated with the "quarter-life crisis" is financial in nature; most professions have become highly competitive in recent years. Positions of relative security – such as tenured positions at universities and "partner" status at law firms – have dwindled in number. This, combined with excessive downsizing, means that many people will never experience occupational security in their lives, and this is doubly unlikely in young adulthood. Generation X was the first generation to meet this uncertain "New Economy" en masse. There is also the problem of crippling student loans.

Twenty and thirtysomethings are reluctant (or unable) to save for their futures. Only half are saving for their retirement and of those who are saving, half think they’re not saving enough, according to research by pensions provider Standard Life. Their report on the Re-Run Generation suggests that one of the reasons this generation is failing to plan for the future is because they’re anxious in the present. Barr was involved in this research.

The era when a professional career meant a life of occupational security and occupational pension – thus allowing an individual to proceed to establish an "inner life" – seems to be coming to an end.

Please restore them if you find some reliable sources which back up the statements.

209.2.208.65 (talk) 16:03, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

This material had been tagged for TWO YEARS as unreferenced:

In most cases, these long hours are de facto involuntary, reflecting economic and social insecurity. While these ills plague adults at all ages, their worst victims are ambitious, unestablished young adults.

College graduates are physically and mentally capable of performing many jobs, but lack the "1-2 years of experience" required to get hired and consequently end up doing simple tedious boring jobs for which they are overqualified. In college, some students spend all their time working hard to earn good grades and graduate on time, but do not gain any "real world" experience with which to secure a job.

This catch-22 is tough for college students: one must have a degree to get hired, but cannot get hired without 1–2 years of practical experience. This cycle is infuriating for recent graduates. The few graduates that do land decent jobs after graduation usually have to work 15–20 hours per week at a job during college and, because of this, they may end up missing social events that university life has to offer, if they do not implement adequate time management practices. These students frequently desire romantic relationships but do not have the time in college to find or sustain them. Thus, they may end up with a job after college but long for a romantic partner and feel as unfulfilled as the graduates who have a partner and no job.

In The Cheating Culture, David Callahan says that these ills of excessive competition and insecurity do not always end once one becomes established in a career, and therefore the "quarter-life crisis" may extend beyond young adulthood. Some measure of financial security, resulting from job security is necessary for psychological development. Some have theorized that insecurity in the "New Economy" will place many in a state of, effectively, perpetual adolescence, and that the rampant and competitive consumerism of the 1990s and 2000s indicates that this is already taking place.

Please find some citations before restoring. Thanks.

209.2.208.65 (talk) 16:04, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Original research

The essay about Erik H. Erikson's ideas being "different" from pop psychology is unreferenced and strikes me as original research. I removed it here for review after posting a source for Erikson's ideas:

The version of the "quarter-life crisis" proposed by Erikson, then, is very different from the one that occurs in popular culture. Indeed, the pop-culture version of the "quarter-life crisis" contains more elements of the crisis Erikson associated with adolescence, Identity vs. Role-confusion, giving credence to the theory that late-20th century life, with its bizarre mix of extreme comfort and insecurity, is causing people to mature at a slower rate.

Please find a source if you want to restore this, and try to write it in a more WP:NPOV manner (attributing it to the person who claims this is true).

209.2.208.65 (talk) 16:08, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Wasn't there a painting on this page?

And why does the article feel shorter than it was before? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.67.17.49 (talk) 10:46, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

It’s my return!!!!!

I was 14….. 2024 president! Don’t be scared 🪐👹 Manifz (talk) 15:21, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Obsession with Diet and Exercise

I looked at my diet and fanatically engaged in physical exercise during my twenties. What drove me to this was the fact that I was no longer a teenager able to eat all the junk food that I wanted without putting on weight. I wanted to retain the body that I had when I was eighteen. That was triggered by quarter-life crisis. Concerns over a changing metabolism can be part of a quarter-life crisis as well as financial struggles. Dandy883 (talk) 20:25, 10 November 2023 (UTC)